Abortion/ *Note* Thread Closing Shortly! ! !

Sarky

Aw, I go to a beer tasting in my local and I miss a gormless parrot towing the tired old anti-choice line. You're a monster, Jernal!

Bannasidhe

Sarky wrote: »

Aw, I go to a beer tasting in my local and I miss a gormless parrot towing the tired old anti-choice line. You're a monster, Jernal!

Linky?




:pac:

Turtwig

Sarky wrote: »

Aw, I go to a beer tasting in my local and I miss a gormless parrot towing the tired old anti-choice line. You're a monster, Jernal!

(I think Plath hit the nail on the head.)

I am silver and exact. I have no preconceptions.
What ever you see I swallow immediately
Just as it is, unmisted by love or dislike.
I am not cruel, only truthful-
The eye of a little god, four-cornered.
Most of the time I meditate on the opposite wall.
It is pink, with speckles. I have looked at it so long
I think it is a part of my heart. But it flickers.
Faces and darkness separate us over and over.

Sarky

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Linky?




:pac:

rainbow kirby

Sarky wrote: »

Aw, I go to a beer tasting in my local

Beer beats anti-choicers. Every time. :pac:

Wouldn't mind a pint now tbh

Bannasidhe

Sarky wrote: »

*big image of jernal on the rampage possibly in Tokyo*

Fair enough.

Bobby42

Wow prime time was very hard to watch.

I can't believe how cold and callous some "pro life" people are.

So a woman who's baby doesn't have a brain and has absolutely zero chance of survival can't have the choice of termination, and must carry the fetus for another three months, then give birth and watch it die.

Truely sick, and what does the prolifer suggest, peri natal hospices?

Unreal.

Bannasidhe

Bobby42 wrote: »

Wow prime time was very hard to watch.

I can't believe how cold and callous some "pro life" people are.

So a woman who's baby doesn't have a brain and has absolutely zero chance of survival can't have the choice of termination, and must carry the fetus for another three months, then give birth and watch it die.

Truely sick, and what does the prolifer suggest, peri natal hospices?

Unreal.

I had to change channel.

Can't afford to buy a new telly.

lazygal

Pro life is pro birth, regardless of anything else. Some weird foetus worship or something, leading to a total lack of empathy. Berry Kiely has opus dei links, AFAIK.

Morag

http://prolifecampaign.ie/?page_id=2314

Dr. Berry Kiely is a Medical Adviser to the Pro Life Campaign. She is a Paediatrician working in Community Health. She will outline how current medical practice in Ireland means women receive all necessary medical care during pregnancy.

B0jangles

That attitude really horrifies me; there was a woman who called into the Joe Duffy show a couple of days ago who had had three children who died shortly after birth from (I think) a serious genetic disorder.

She did not know with any of the three pregnancies that the death of the baby was certain, there was always the possibility that he/she might be healthy, yet she was totally opposed to abortions being made available to women who know with 100% certainty that their pregnancies will result in a child that will die at birth, or at best, shortly after. Or indeed, for women whose fetuses have died in utero.

She herself found that giving birth and then holding her poor doomed baby helped her so she appears to have decided that every woman in Ireland in the same situation should have the same experience, whether or not she (the woman) wants to.

It's like these people literally cannot comprehend that other people are not identical to themselves; that people react differently to different circumstances.

Kiwi in IE

The pro lifer actually suggested that if we allow abortion for fatal foetal abnormalities, then women might want to start 'aborting' their terminally ill born children. What is with this 'post birth abortion' crap? The term is an oxymoron in itself. Do they have an ounce of intelligence between them? I would think that if they did, someone would suggest an immediate end to the public verbalisation of that particular absurd, nonsensical comparison.

Sarky

Morag wrote: »

http://prolifecampaign.ie/?page_id=2314

She will outline how current medical practice in Ireland means women receive all necessary medical care during pregnancy.

So she's going to lie, in other words?

Morag

Yup and said that women who travel for termination for medical reasons should instead be put in peri natal hospice and be 'supported' there until their babies are born.

Bobby42

What I found to be the worst par was the suggestion that opting for a termination in these circumstances means the mother values her baby "less".

The circumstances the woman found herself in are beyond horrendous and yet this doctor wants to force women to carry these pregnancies to full term, anything short of this is "not valuing life".

Bannasidhe

Morag wrote: »

Yup and said that women who travel for termination for medical reasons should instead be put in peri natal hospice and be 'supported' there until their babies are born.

Aw **** it - lets just lock up all the pregnant women from the moment of implantation. It's the logical thing to do.

B0jangles

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Aw **** it - lets just lock up all the pregnant women from the moment of implantation. It's the logical thing to do.

Given that this is a catholic country we should probably just lock up every fertile woman, full stop.

It's the only way to be sure.

(God finds a way...)

Doctor Strange

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

The pro lifer actually suggested that if we allow abortion for fatal foetal abnormalities, then women might want to start 'aborting' their terminally ill born children. What is with this 'post birth abortion' crap? The term is an oxymoron in itself. Do they have an ounce of intelligence between them? I would think that if they did, someone would suggest an immediate end to the public verbalisation of that particular absurd, nonsensical comparison.

That's a rhetorical question, right?

Kiwi in IE

Unforgettable _ Fire wrote: »

That's a rhetorical question, right?

Of course! Although you do have to wonder how a few of them have made it to the medical profession. There are many different types of intelligence though. Clearly rote learning from text books and bibles without an ounce of emotional or social intelligence is entirely possible?

Sarky

When you have scientists who manage to also be creationist f*ckwits, yes. Yes it is depressingly possible.

the_syco

Dave! wrote: »

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here

The pro-lifers are saying allowing abortion will open the floodgates for abortions. Just because the option is there, doesn't mean everyone will take it.

Dades

That interview really drove it home, the utter ruthlessness of some of these 'pro-life' advocates.

When that poor woman described in tears how she had to spend 3 months carrying a baby while people around her congratulated her and asked about her nursery plans etc - and that soulless dragon suggests she could have gone into care like some small town teenager being sent to the convent until the 'problem' disappears...

I really hope a lot of people watched that.

Kiwi in IE

Dades wrote: »

That interview really drove it home, the utter ruthlessness of some of these 'pro-life' advocates.

When that poor woman described in tears how she had to spend 3 months carrying a baby while people around her congratulated her and asked about her nursery plans etc - and that soulless dragon suggests she could have gone into care like some small town teenager being sent to the convent until the 'problem' disappears...

I really hope a lot of people watched that.

Listening to her made me cry. As she said how could you go about your day to day business? Going to work and having people ask you about when the baby is due, names, genders, nurseries etc. Dropping your child in school and listening to other parents ask them about being a big brother or sister. Even of you fitted the Catholic model of barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, you'd still get comments from the well meaning checkout operator in the local supermarket when you scurried in to get the groceries required to have husbands dinner on the table at 1300! It is inhumane. Europe needs to step in now!

efb

So pregnant women presenting with fatal foetal abnormalities should be kept in 'Perinatal Hospices' until their dead baby exits the womb... Where have I seen that practice before as an Irish Solution... Magdalene Laundry

marienbad

28064212 wrote: »

The Supreme Court can't do anything without a hard case, and such instances are vanishingly rare. Even moreso since they will just use the "Irish Solution" (the UK), rather than subject themselves to the public scrutiny (and in some cases, vitriol) that such a case would undoubtedly bring

President just might refer it, you never know .

Hotblack Desiato

oldrnwisr wrote: »

I don't know about repealing the Eight amendment. Changing it certainly, but repealing it entirely (i.e. deleting 40.3.3) is not something any sane person should favour.

O_o the eighth amendment is insane, equating a zygote with a woman is insane and unworkable as we have seen. It simply must go.

In the absence of the 8th amendment we would only have the 1861 act to regulate abortion, which didn't really work all that well (e.g. Sheila Hodgers), so what we need to do is alter the text of 40.3.3 to widen the reproductive rights of women. If we repeal the 8th amendment then we're relying on legislation and we've seen this week what a complete cluster**** that's going to be.

Obviously any government moving legislation to repeal the 8th would also repeal the 1861 act.

I agree that while elective abortions would probably not find widespread support, circumstances like rape, incest, foetal viability and maternal health would all find strong support (were it to be put to the electorate).

Then we're back into the 'good abortion / bad abortion' thing - either you believe a foetus has rights that trump a woman's rights, or you don't. Allowing rape/incest abortions only is a morally weak position, whether you're pro-choice or anti-choice.

Dreamertime wrote: »

Now that X will be legislated for in the near future.

What do you want now?

What I'd like to see, but probably won't for decades to come, is the erasure of the shameful 8th amendment from our constitution (or, preferably, the total replacement of the constitution with a secular document) and abortion on demand until at least 20 weeks.

I don't believe I have the moral right to force, or support the forcing of, a woman to carry a pregnancy against her will. That's the beginning and end of it as far as I'm concerned.

Sarky

marienbad wrote: »

President just might refer it, you never know .

Fired an email off to the bould Mickey D. there to ask if he plans on doing just that. If nothing else, the reply should be interesting.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

Obliq wrote: »

Where IS the opposition - as you say GCU

never thought I'd say that

This is indeed a strange turn of events, and not the only unlikely coincidence that has occurred on the thread. The only possible explanation is that a strange and powerful being, beyond our comprehension, is guiding our actions towards some higher purpose. I just hope it's not Phil Hogan.

Turtwig

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

The only possible explanation is that a strange and powerful being, beyond our comprehension, is guiding our actions towards some higher purpose.

That sounds suspiciously like a god to me!:mad:
This ain't no place for that God stuff, who are you and what have you done with GCU?:mad:

jank

oldrnwisr wrote: »

That would depend on what you mean by liberal. Do you mean a completely open US style abortion framework or just more liberal than the one we have now?

The poll figures suggest that a strong majority favour an expansion of abortion law outside its current confines.

A February 2013 Irish Times/Ipsos MRBI poll and a January 2013 Sunday Times poll both found strong support (74%, 78%) for legalising abortion in circumstances of rape or incest. A Sunday Business Post poll in November 2012 also agreed with 82% in favour.

Regarding foetal abnormalities there is also a strong majority who favour widening the current legislation of about 80%.

However, as far as an elective abortion system is concerned (i.e. abortion-on-demand/request), not so much. The polls indicate approx. 35-40% support for such a measure.

So, like I said, it depends on how liberal you want to be.

I agree with this, it's like herding cats as everyone has a different view on it. On the same token most people would be unhappy if this legislation opened the door for elective abortion in practice. It would not be good enough to just turn up in GP's office state that you want an abortion, tick a box saying your suicidal, job done!
The government had to legislate within the confines of the constitution and the x case. So naturally this outcome is not at all surprising. I see FF have fudged the issue tonight as well.