Abortion/ *Note* Thread Closing Shortly! ! !

Turtwig

*Sigh*
Quote mining his statement on Morning Ireland surely it can't begin that quickly.
"He was against enacting legislation." [Not exact quote]

Yes, he was, because. . . .
Aren't you going to say the because?
He'd rather if it wasn't a state issue at all and was kept between the woman and her physician.

Of course, that last bit is probably going to be ignored from here on out.

Have to say, in this day and age Pat should have the exact transcript before him. Maybe he does, but didn't bother to check?

Delirium

Soundcloud of Casey on Morning Ireland defending the use of Prof Ferguson's report

joeyhehir

"unborn human life"

strange choice of words - should we be writing legislation for the "undead" !

rainbow kirby

joeyhehir wrote: »

strange choice of words - should we be writing legislation for the "undead" !

Why not? Damn zombies need to know their place :pac:

Turtwig

Have to post these here.



And finally.. .

irishcentral.com wrote:

Anti-abortion Catholic activists in the U.S are being asked to target Boston College (BC) and try to stop Irish Prime Minister Enda Kenny as commencement speaker at the Jesuit-run Boston College on May 20. There seems a real prospect of large demonstrations by anti-abortion groups at the event.

The Irish organization ProLife Campaign.ie has apparently circulated attack letters against Kenny to Catholic organizations including the powerful Knights of Columnbus which call for support on the issue. The Knights Order often refers to itself as the "strong right arm of the Church".

Kenny is about to introduce legislation in the Irish parliament at the request of the Supreme Court clarifying the law on abortion which will allow it in certain very limited circumstances.

BC President Rev. William P. Leahy, S.J. is to present an honorary Doctor of Laws degree to him at the ceremony at Alumni Stadium at 10 a.m. on May 20, 2013.

A letter from American Catholic groups seen by Irish Central says “Enda Kenny is NOT a fit person to be the Commencement Speaker and an Awardee at BC. Please contact the following to DEMAND that Pro-Abortion Enda Kenny be DISINVITED."

The names and phone and e-mail addresses given are Cardinal Sean O’Malley, Reverend William Leahy head of Boston College and Pope Francis who the letter points out is a Jesuit.

The letter claims that BC's sister college - BC Law - had “Pro-Abortion Commencement speakers: Vicki Kennedy (Ted's widow) in '12, and 4 when John Garvey was Dean (1999-2010).”

The letter says Kenny is “introducing legislation to legalize Abortion in Ireland, NOT "promoting human rights".

The Pro Life Campaign (PLC) in Ireland issued a statement picked up by American groups that states in part the Taoiseach’s reassurances on abortion are “empty and misleading” and “Two-panel six-doctor proposal for signing off on abortions is utter nonsense.”

Boston College is now facing its second Irish controversy. The college became enmeshed in the issue of handing over tapes of IRA operatives done as part of an oral history of The Troubles project which the Northern Irish police subsequently demanded.

The matter went all the way to the Supreme Court which found that the college had to hand them over. There has been much criticism in the irish American community about how the college handled the oral history project.



Source

This one is also interesting.

loveisdivine

I really hope they don't protest over there. It would shine such an embarrassing light on us.

robindch

You wouldn't have guessed it, but apparently Brady is attempting "to win the hearts and minds of the people of Ireland":

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/cardinal-keeps-excommunication-threat-hanging-over-abortion-tds-29242992.html

Delirium

robindch wrote: »

You wouldn't have guessed it, but apparently Brady is attempting "to win the hearts and minds of the people of Ireland":

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/cardinal-keeps-excommunication-threat-hanging-over-abortion-tds-29242992.html

Good stuff. Let everyone get a view of the stark reality that Vatican Inc. really want. Governments voting along Catholic dogma lines rather than in line with their own citizens. Can't imagine many people (Catholic or otherwise) being impressed with this attempt to subvert democracy.

Turtwig

koth wrote: »

Can't imagine many people (Catholic or otherwise) being impressed with this attempt to subvert democracy.

Unfortunately I think most people don't actually get the point that democracy is being subverted.

Obliq

Woah! :eek: Cthulu is come for us :eek:
Oh, he's gone again.

Turtwig

Obliq wrote: »

Woah! :eek: Cthulu is come for us :eek:
Oh, he's gone again.

Obliq

Too late!!:eek::eek:

Turtwig

Typical Beeker ignoring the perhaps best advice in the galaxy.

HurtLocker

koth wrote: »

Fair play to Kenny. But the constitution is something that needs to be secularised the preamble is a joke and has been used when I did religion in school to justify ireland being a "catholic country" with catholic friendly laws for all.

Start of Preamble of Irish Constitution wrote:

In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred,

We, the people of Éire,

Humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ, Who sustained our fathers through centuries of trial,

I know it a bit OT but its things like this and the ethos of hospitals that are giving the church a beating stick and holding the country back.

Back on topic, hopefully some day liberalised abortion is brought to Ireland , that will hopefully show Irish people that the church is no longer a focal point of siociety more a personal choice.

I feel that the church is using this topic as a way of getting into the lapsed Catholic homes and get free air time and enforce this "catholic ireland" idea. And unfortunately our sh*tty state broadcaster who are to disorganised to make a proper informative debate lap up anything that would help waste airtime for free.

Bannasidhe

Jernal wrote: »

Typical Beeker ignoring the perhaps best advice in the galaxy.

Of course he is - he has no towel!!!! :eek:

_rebelkid

As I wandered through YouTube last night, I was pounced upon by an advertisement from everylifecounts.ie, in an attempt to move me to the "Pro-Life" side. It was a harrowing story about a woman who gave birth to her child, spent a day with it and watched it die. Then she went on to say how having the child for that small amount of time, though knowing it was going to die, is all that matters to her in her life now.

Basically, it was a woman sobbing for 4 and a half minutes saying no matter how bad your dead baby will be, give birth to it. Even if it's dead, give birth to it, because all birth no matter how traumatic is better than abortion.

It seems like the anti-choice side have given up on vague rationality and have returned to the "save da babeez" emotion driven pandering of old.

To me, it seemed a little selfish that she pushed "life" for 27 hours; the baby's brain hadn't developed properly, and its heart was no where near up to living standard just so she could get it baptised. Who knows the pain it went through and the pain that mother hides away.

Turtwig

That crap absolutely revolts me. You wouldn't keep an extremely suffering dog alive just so you could cope with its death better. That a living entity would experience nothing more of its existence than sheer unbridled pain is horrific! This is just parents being totally and utterly ignorantly selfish.

aloyisious

The local free paper (Wicklow Times) in Bray has a front-page report that Billy Timmins TD (FG) is going to vote against the Bill.

aloyisious

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Of course he is - he has no towel!!!! :eek:

he's just following the church's teaching on "moral reservations" (adding in some words that are meaningless to most humans in the "belief" that the man upstairs will take account of his "good works" on earth)

HurtLocker

aloyisious wrote: »

The local free paper (Wicklow Times) in Bray has a front-page report that Billy Timmins TD (FG) is going to vote against the Bill.

Parish pump politics at its finest. All this guy cares about is the next election. If it wasn't he wouldn't feel the need to announce it in a local paper. Probably secured the whole daily local mass goers votes in one day.

"He fixed the roads" will be replaced by "Sure he voted no"

Obliq

http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/colette-browne/cardinal-brady-was-silent-about-child-abuse-now-he-should-be-silenced-230625.html

El Salvador:
"There, a 22-year-old woman, Beatriz, who is five-months pregnant with a foetus with anencephaly, is critically ill in hospital suffering from a life-threatening auto-immune disorder.

Doctors have said that she could die if she continues with the pregnancy, but, because of that country’s ban on abortion, which is so strict that medics are prevented from ending ectopic pregnancies, they are unable to help her. They have tried, but a request that they be given immunity from prosecution to treat the young woman was turned down, despite the fact that the foetus has no brain and will either die in utero or immediately after its birth.

Her lawyers have now taken a landmark case to the Supreme Court, but, while a verdict is awaited, has the Church in El Salvador been campaigning to protect life, the only life that can be saved, namely the life of Beatriz? No, they would prefer that she die.

The Archbishop of San Salvador, José Luis Escobar, said a termination of the pregnancy would be “inhuman, against nature and against all principles” and warned the case is evidence of a “movement and agenda” to liberalise abortion law in that country.

Sound familiar? The Church here is now engaged in a similar campaign to stop very restrictive, life-saving abortion legislation from being enacted, but a Church that touts its ‘pro-life’ credentials, while refusing to lift a finger to help the living, has very little to offer the debate."

eviltwin

Obliq wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/colette-browne/cardinal-brady-was-silent-about-child-abuse-now-he-should-be-silenced-230625.html

El Salvador:
"There, a 22-year-old woman, Beatriz, who is five-months pregnant with a foetus with anencephaly, is critically ill in hospital suffering from a life-threatening auto-immune disorder.

Doctors have said that she could die if she continues with the pregnancy, but, because of that country’s ban on abortion, which is so strict that medics are prevented from ending ectopic pregnancies, they are unable to help her. They have tried, but a request that they be given immunity from prosecution to treat the young woman was turned down, despite the fact that the foetus has no brain and will either die in utero or immediately after its birth.

Her lawyers have now taken a landmark case to the Supreme Court, but, while a verdict is awaited, has the Church in El Salvador been campaigning to protect life, the only life that can be saved, namely the life of Beatriz? No, they would prefer that she die.

The Archbishop of San Salvador, José Luis Escobar, said a termination of the pregnancy would be “inhuman, against nature and against all principles” and warned the case is evidence of a “movement and agenda” to liberalise abortion law in that country.

Sound familiar? The Church here is now engaged in a similar campaign to stop very restrictive, life-saving abortion legislation from being enacted, but a Church that touts its ‘pro-life’ credentials, while refusing to lift a finger to help the living, has very little to offer the debate."

That story utterly disgusts me, who do these men think they are :mad:

Obliq

eviltwin wrote: »

That story utterly disgusts me, who do these men think they are :mad:

They think they are better than us. Unbelievably, I know. If Christ was real, he'd cry buckets out of statues all over the world .....but they'd only change the message to suit themselves. :mad:

kylith

Obliq wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/colette-browne/cardinal-brady-was-silent-about-child-abuse-now-he-should-be-silenced-230625.html

El Salvador:
"There, a 22-year-old woman, Beatriz, who is five-months pregnant with a foetus with anencephaly, is critically ill in hospital suffering from a life-threatening auto-immune disorder.

Doctors have said that she could die if she continues with the pregnancy, but, because of that country’s ban on abortion, which is so strict that medics are prevented from ending ectopic pregnancies, they are unable to help her. They have tried, but a request that they be given immunity from prosecution to treat the young woman was turned down, despite the fact that the foetus has no brain and will either die in utero or immediately after its birth.

Her lawyers have now taken a landmark case to the Supreme Court, but, while a verdict is awaited, has the Church in El Salvador been campaigning to protect life, the only life that can be saved, namely the life of Beatriz? No, they would prefer that she die.

The Archbishop of San Salvador, José Luis Escobar, said a termination of the pregnancy would be “inhuman, against nature and against all principles” and warned the case is evidence of a “movement and agenda” to liberalise abortion law in that country.

Sound familiar? The Church here is now engaged in a similar campaign to stop very restrictive, life-saving abortion legislation from being enacted, but a Church that touts its ‘pro-life’ credentials, while refusing to lift a finger to help the living, has very little to offer the debate."

There are no words. I feel ashamed to be human right now.

eviltwin

I wonder do the church feel its better a woman dies than lives with the disgrace - in their eyes - of having had an abortion even if that is the very thing that will save her?

GCU Flexible Demeanour

HurtLocker wrote: »

I know it a bit OT but its things like this and the ethos of hospitals that are giving the church a beating stick and holding the country back.

I'd agree. Having this kind of statement in your Constitution is not just a rhetorical flourish. Anything that's in the Constitution, including the preamble, is guidance given by the people to the Courts as to the nature of the shared rights and responsibilities in this society. Enda Kenny actually can't bitch about Bishops involving themselves in this debate. If the Constitution says the Trinity is the ultimate source of valid authority, then there's hardly anything strange about the guys who hold the Christ's Earthly franchise to be telling us how it is.

What's actually strange is the sight of Enda Kenny, in Knock Airport of all places, where State money built an airport in the hope of attracting Catholic pilgrims from all over the world to visit the site of an alleged apparition by Mary, talking as if the Constitution didn't defer to religious authority in its opening lines.

What bothers me is we've a sort of 1984 way of unconsciously re-arranging things, where we need to be surfacing quite significant issue about the nature of our society. Suddenly, we've always been at war in Eastasia, and Eurasia is our ally. Suddenly, we're a secular State where the Church has no role, before the Ministry of Truth have even had the chance of editing the Constitution.

This is a wider issue than abortion, but I don't see how we can have a coherent approach to abortion (or much else) unless we address those wider issues.

Absolam

HurtLocker wrote: »

Parish pump politics at its finest. All this guy cares about is the next election. If it wasn't he wouldn't feel the need to announce it in a local paper. Probably secured the whole daily local mass goers votes in one day.

"He fixed the roads" will be replaced by "Sure he voted no"

That kind of thing would almost lead you to believe he thinks the majority of voters in his catchment want a no vote.

Turtwig

kylith wrote: »

There are no words. I feel ashamed to be human right now.

You're a woman you're supposed to feel ashamed all the time.:pac:

kylith

Jernal wrote: »

You're a woman you're supposed to feel ashamed all the time.:pac:

You're right. I should go away and hide myself because of my shameful womanhood. Then I should pray for God to turn me into a man, so I'm not so sinful.

Bannasidhe

kylith wrote: »

You're right. I should go away and hide myself because of my shameful womanhood. Then I should pray for God to turn me into a man, so I'm not so sinful.

Transgender??????


:eek::eek::eek:

No. No. No.

If HolyGod had intended you to be a man he would have made you a man with man parts from birth implantation so accept your fate woman and do as you are told!