Abortion/ *Note* Thread Closing Shortly! ! !

kylith

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Transgender??????


:eek::eek::eek:

No. No. No.

If HolyGod had intended you to be a man he would have made you a man with man parts from birth implantation so accept your fate woman and do as you are told!

Hey, if he can Lot's wife into a pillar of salt he can turn me into a less sinful gender.

Bannasidhe

kylith wrote: »

Hey, if he can Lot's wife into a pillar of salt he can turn me into a less sinful gender.

Woman into salt = punishment.

Woman into Man = Upgrade.

I think I'm getting the hang of this religion malarky.

kylith

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Woman into salt = punishment.

Woman into Man = Upgrade.

I think I'm getting the hang of this religion malarky.

Ah, now I understand.

Bannasidhe

kylith wrote: »

Ah, now I understand.

Now, you need to accept that your understanding is not required and embrace total obedience.

kylith

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Now, you need to accept that your understanding is not required and embrace total obedience.

The Leader is good
The Leader is great
I surrender my will
As of this date

Turtwig

kylith wrote: »

The Leader is good
The Leader is great
I surrender my will
As of this date

Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Batmannnnnn

Bannasidhe

Jernal wrote: »

Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Batmannnnnn

More

Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na (making sammichs for) Batmannnnnnnn

MrPudding

Jernal wrote: »

That crap absolutely revolts me. You wouldn't keep an extremely suffering dog alive just so you could cope with its death better. That a living entity would experience nothing more of its existence than sheer unbridled pain is horrific! This is just parents being totally and utterly ignorantly selfish.

As I have said before, I always find it odd that humane treatment is reserved, by some, for non-humans.

MrP

Nodin

Far too much good cheer going on. Here's something to kill the mood.

Mr Kenny said the Dáil was confined in what it was doing by the Constitution
and, within the Constitution, the law as determined by the Supreme Court.

“It is within these confines that the heads of this Bill have
been approved by the Government and will follow through the process.’

“That does not involve anything extraneous like what the
deputy mentioned in terms of foetal abnormalities, rape, incest or
whatever.’’

The Taoiseach said the people had voted on the issue in the
past. “They made their intentions very clear in that the right to travel was
given specifically to women.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/td-calls-for-referendum-on-abortion-1.1385405
Now as far as I remember, the whole right to travel thing came about over the AJ preventing somebody going abroad for an abortion, not as some "yez can do yer dirty deeds somewhere else" gesture by the electorate in regards to those two circumstances.

28064212

Nodin wrote: »

Now as far as I remember, the whole right to travel thing came about over the AJ preventing somebody going abroad for an abortion, not as some "yez can do yer dirty deeds somewhere else" gesture by the electorate in regards to those two circumstances.

The Thirteenth Amendment is what he is referring to

Mark Hamill

eviltwin wrote: »

I wonder do the church feel its better a woman dies than lives with the disgrace - in their eyes - of having had an abortion even if that is the very thing that will save her?

A kind of pre-emptive honour killing?

Turtwig

Extreme pro-lifers cling to the idea that once you start legalising for abortion in exceptional cases you'll invariably end up with liberal abortion on demand. It's a interesting dynamic. They sacrifice the genuine exceptional cases because allowing for them, might, not a guarantee, lead to more deaths somewhere down the road in the future via abortion on demand. In other words, they don't want to allow exceptional cases because in turn these might lead to the future possibility of a different referendum or court case that might legalise abortion on demand. (Which is obviously what they don't want under any circumstances). It'll still probably lead to a referendum that can be rejected, but the fear is there, that we shouldn't even get to that stage. They oppose these hardline cases because these cases keep the threat of abortion on demand even further back. Once you allow the hardline cases then you'll be constantly fighting against the mainstream abortion on demand which is harder because there'll likely be significantly less taboo over the topic. Sacrifice the few to save the many.

Sarky

That'd be vaguely commendable if any of the evidence was on their side. WHO seems pretty sure that banning abortion doesn't do anything to stop it (point 9 in particular on that page). Abortions are going to happen at around the same rate, whether it be in a clinical safe environment or a filthy back-alley. The only real way to reduce abortion is better education and more access to contraceptives, so the abortions that DO happen may as well be done legally, in an environment that's safe.

Turtwig

Sarky wrote: »

That'd be vaguely commendable if any of the evidence was on their side. WHO seems pretty sure that banning abortion doesn't do anything to stop it (point 9 in particular on that page). Abortions are going to happen at around the same rate, whether it be in a clinical safe environment or a filthy back-alley. The only real way to reduce abortion is better education and more access to contraceptives, so the abortions that DO happen may as well be done legally, in an environment that's safe.

100% agree but if you can convince yourself of that kind of logic and other crap. Then you're not going to accept that banning abortions is a bad thing. Think women being shameful and all that other shyte.

Sarky

I know. That link was being used by someone in AH trying to argue in favour of banning all abortion. F*cking bizarre.

Turtwig

Sarky wrote: »

I know. That link was being used by someone in AH trying to argue in favour of banning all abortion. F*cking bizarre.

It seems a lot of time folks on the pro-life side are brilliant at providing references. . . that they probably never read themselves and just parrot what either Lifeinstitute or its ilk tell them the links says. It's baffling.

aloyisious

eviltwin wrote: »

I wonder do the church feel its better a woman dies than lives with the disgrace - in their eyes - of having had an abortion even if that is the very thing that will save her?

Don'cha know it's the woman's immortal soul the church is concerned in saving?

Bobby42

Walked by a youth defence stand outside the GPO today. They were shouting "keep abortion out of Ireland".

Is it just the geographical location of abortions they have a problem with?

Or do they genuinely believe Ireland doesn't have abortion?

Hypocrites.

jill_valentine

Bobby42 wrote: »

Walked by a youth defence stand outside the GPO today. They were shouting "keep abortion out of Ireland".

Is it just the geographical location of abortions they have a problem with?

Or do they genuinely believe Ireland doesn't have abortion?

Hypocrites.

They've made a ninja art of believing only and exactly what's convenient to them, this is just a particularly spectacular flourish.

Stark

It's NIMBYism at its finest.

Delirium

Anyone listen to Morning Ireland today? I'm seeing some tweets that Morning Ireland has said that Prof Fergusson did not say he was unhappy with how Iona Institute were using his report. Any truth to this? Did Morning Ireland actually say that?

Turtwig

koth wrote: »

Anyone listen to Morning Ireland today? I'm seeing some tweets that Morning Ireland has said that Prof Fergusson did not say he was unhappy with how Iona Institute were using his report. Any truth to this? Did Morning Ireland actually say that?

Well did he use the word "unhappy" in his conversation? :pac:

Seriously,
Hope they didn't say that. I'd say they might just have been paraphrased badly.

Delirium

Jernal wrote: »

Well did he use the word "unhappy" in his conversation? :pac:

Seriously,
Hope they didn't say that. I'd say they might just have been paraphrased badly.

Touchè



:P

robindch

Jernal wrote: »

It seems a lot of time folks on the pro-life side are brilliant at providing references. . . that they probably never read themselves and just parrot what either Lifeinstitute or its ilk tell them the links says. It's baffling.

Not so baffling if you bear in mind that religious people are conditioned to believe unconditionally what their religious leaders tell them.

Morgase

aloyisious wrote: »

The local free paper (Wicklow Times) in Bray has a front-page report that Billy Timmins TD (FG) is going to vote against the Bill.

His response to my email in which I pointed out that he has a duty to legislate for X:

Thank you for taking the time to email me with your views.

My issue with the proposed legislation surrounds Head No.4 and the issue of suicide. I have attended the Oireachtas hearings on the issue and have had several meetings with many groups with a view to getting an understanding of the difficulties.

All the evidence I have heard to date clearly indicates that termination of pregnancy is not a treatment for suicide intent. During the General election campaign the Fine Gael Position was that we would not legislate for the X-Case.
With respect to the two referenda sections of pro-life and pro-choice campaigned against these for different reasons due to the wording.

Once again, thank you for your views.

Red mist descending...

Obliq

http://www.abortionrightscampaign.ie/2013/05/09/tell-a-fine-gael-td-day-1-lucinda-creighton/

"Take One Minute to Ring, Email, Tweet, Post, or Visit for Choice today!

Starting today and running through next Wednesday we will be focusing on one TD a day, telling them in every medium we have available that women in Ireland need abortion legislation and need that legislation to address real concerns, real needs. We aim to make it very clear to these elected officials, while they makes decisions on the Heads of Bill and vote, that the constituencies and country they come from want legal abortion and legislation to makes that possible. Below we have sample tweets, posts, emails, and messages you can send and clinic hours where relevant. Join us in sharing the reality of pro-choice views with Minister Lucinda Creighton."

Great initiative. Time to go fill up an inbox....

Corkfeen

Jernal wrote: »

Well did he use the word "unhappy" in his conversation? :pac:

Seriously,
Hope they didn't say that. I'd say they might just have been paraphrased badly.

Their objection appears to be that he didn't use the exact words of 'unhappy'. It's under 'clarification' on this link.

http://www.rte.ie/news/morningireland/player.html

He did effectively say that they had misread the research to suit their agenda though.

kylith

Obliq wrote: »

http://www.abortionrightscampaign.ie/2013/05/09/tell-a-fine-gael-td-day-1-lucinda-creighton/

"Take One Minute to Ring, Email, Tweet, Post, or Visit for Choice today!

Starting today and running through next Wednesday we will be focusing on one TD a day, telling them in every medium we have available that women in Ireland need abortion legislation and need that legislation to address real concerns, real needs. We aim to make it very clear to these elected officials, while they makes decisions on the Heads of Bill and vote, that the constituencies and country they come from want legal abortion and legislation to makes that possible. Below we have sample tweets, posts, emails, and messages you can send and clinic hours where relevant. Join us in sharing the reality of pro-choice views with Minister Lucinda Creighton."

Great initiative. Time to go fill up an inbox....

Done and done.

I also emailed John Halligan to tell him how proud I was of him.

aloyisious

Hmmm, is the lady turning? Independent,ie report

EUROPEAN Affairs Minister Lucinda Creighton is now indicating she will now vote for the abortion legislation when it comes before the Dail.

Ms Creighton is the most senior Fine Gael figure in the Dail to have difficulties with the proposed abortion legislation and one of a number of TDs who party bosses feared could vote against it and lose the whip.

But speaking in Dublin today she said she is “very hopeful” she will be able to support the bill.

“It’s a long way until this legislation will be finalised and we have to go through the process with the committee,” Ms Creighton said.

“Obviously a number of ministers have made it clear there would be a willingness to look at amendments to the legislation so it’s a long way to go and I’m not going to predict or pre-empt the outcome of the process but I am very hopeful that ultimately it will be a bill I can support.”

She also said Health Minister Dr James Reilly will take on board recommendations from the Oireachtas Health Committee, which begins its hearings on the heads of the abortion bill nextweek.

“We have a clear commitment from minster James Reilly that he will take non board the recommendations of the committee and concrete amendments that will be proposed. I take that in good faith.”

loveisdivine

aloyisious wrote: »

Hmmm, is the lady turning? Independent,ie report

EUROPEAN Affairs Minister Lucinda Creighton is now indicating she will now vote for the abortion legislation when it comes before the Dail.

Ms Creighton is the most senior Fine Gael figure in the Dail to have difficulties with the proposed abortion legislation and one of a number of TDs who party bosses feared could vote against it and lose the whip.

But speaking in Dublin today she said she is “very hopeful” she will be able to support the bill.

“It’s a long way until this legislation will be finalised and we have to go through the process with the committee,” Ms Creighton said.

“Obviously a number of ministers have made it clear there would be a willingness to look at amendments to the legislation so it’s a long way to go and I’m not going to predict or pre-empt the outcome of the process but I am very hopeful that ultimately it will be a bill I can support.”

She also said Health Minister Dr James Reilly will take on board recommendations from the Oireachtas Health Committee, which begins its hearings on the heads of the abortion bill nextweek.

“We have a clear commitment from minster James Reilly that he will take non board the recommendations of the committee and concrete amendments that will be proposed. I take that in good faith.”

I take this as her saying that she is confident she will get her own way and the legislation will be changed to suit them. Then she can vote yes on it.