Abortion/ Note Thread Closing Shortly! ! !

rainbow kirby · 13-05-2013 5:10pm

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

And maybe there's some reason why women who need an abortion are particularly dependent on Bus Eireann.

Living in a rural area of the one BÉ bus a day kind, no access to a lift or can't explain things to someone who would give one, 6am Ryanair flight from Dublin is the cheapest way to get to the UK at short notice...

GCU Flexible Demeanour · 13-05-2013 5:21pm

marienbad wrote: »

Are you for real ??

Yes, I'm for real.

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Living in a rural area of the one BÉ bus a day kind, no access to a lift or can't explain things to someone who would give one, 6am Ryanair flight from Dublin is the cheapest way to get to the UK at short notice...

Already answered by Post 7856. I'm not saying no-one uses Bus Eireann to get to the Airport. I'm just pointing out that very few do.

Things really seem to get complicated once we've to count past hrair.

rainbow kirby · 13-05-2013 5:26pm

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

Yes, I'm for real.Already answered by Post 7856. I'm not saying no-one uses Bus Eireann to get to the Airport. I'm just pointing out that very few do.

Your reasoning ignores the multiple connections case - a local bus to connect to a bigger town which has a privately run bus service running to an airport.

_rebelkid · 13-05-2013 7:15pm

I like the new name...

baalthor · 13-05-2013 8:12pm

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

Will we do the numbers? If there's 3,000 women travelling each year, that's about ten a day. 26% of Irish people using Dublin Airport (which is the airport used by 75% of all Irish air passenger traffic) travel there by bus. 10% of bus users using the airport choose Bus Eireann. So maybe 2.6% of all airport users are inconvenienced by the action, which is different to saying they'd no alternative transport option. So if the strike goes on for 10 days, maybe two women will be inconveniced.t.

The 10% are people who travel directly to the airport with BE.

People need BE to get to Dublin - only a minority of services go via the airport.

For women going to the UK, if they travel by bus to Dublin, they might then travel to the airport by Dublin Bus, taxi or
a friend's car.

So you will need to revise your figures upwards.

Nodin · 13-05-2013 8:50pm

marienbad wrote: »

join the club

I've a few answers, all bannable.

Nodin · 13-05-2013 9:07pm

Meanwhile, at Dail Eireann......

THE Government plans to try to get the abortion legislation passed without a divisive vote in the Dail, thereby avoiding the issue of rebel Fine Gael TDs losing the party whip.

Under Dail rules at least 10 TDs are required to force a vote to actually be
held, otherwise the law just passes by general consent.

Fianna Fail leader Micheal Martin is the crucial figure in this scenario.
Labour and Fine Gael will tow the coalition line, and Sinn Fein are also heavily indicating support.

So only Fianna Fail has sufficient numbers to ask for a vote to be held.

But Fianna Fail are also the most divided party on the legislation with a
50:50 split on supporting or opposing it.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/coalition-hoping-to-get-abortion-bill-passed-without-vote-29261391.html

rainbow kirby · 13-05-2013 9:40pm

Nodin wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/coalition-hoping-to-get-abortion-bill-passed-without-vote-29261391.html

I read the comments there. Could feel my brain seeping out my ears, remind me not to do that again. :eek:

GCU Flexible Demeanour · 13-05-2013 11:02pm

baalthor wrote: »

The 10% are people who travel directly to the airport with BE.

People need BE to get to Dublin - only a minority of services go via the airport.

For women going to the UK, if they travel by bus to Dublin, they might then travel to the airport by Dublin Bus, taxi or

a friend's car.

So you will need to revise your figures upwards.

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Your reasoning ignores the multiple connections case - a local bus to connect to a bigger town which has a privately run bus service running to an airport.

Again, that's balanced by the number of people who actually have an alternative. Bear in mind that Bus Eireann aren't typically the feeder bus for private operators. It can actually work the other way around. For instance, Bus Eireann (certainly, a few years ago) only run year-round services as far as Bantry, and as far as Glengariff in Summer. But there's private operators who'll take you on to Castletownbere.

But, most of all, bear in mind that only an average of 10 women a day are making the journey. Even if they all used Bus Eireann, it wouldn't amount to a horde. It's a non-issue. It actually meets Frankfurt's definition of Bullsh*t.

HurtLocker · 14-05-2013 12:12am

rainbow kirby wrote: »

I read the comments there. Could feel my brain seeping out my ears, remind me not to do that again. :eek:

God damn you I read the comments!

Apart from all the slogan shouting from prolifers and usual twisting of numbers this caught my eye (such as the idea that it was non nationals living here going to the uk for abortions not irish women that made the women goin a year so high[5000])..

from Indo Commenter wrote:

The atheist position is the gamble of a lifetime though, you have to admit. Also atheists tend to be more dour and reactive.

'Ye shall know them by their works', or something like that. Their dour and reactive works.

:rolleyes: I think Ive found a member of the athiest ate my baby brigade.

I would suggest people to read the comments. Finally get to see what OAPs do after the rosary bead meetings and before bingo. And to see what it looks like when a minority decide they are the majority.

Ciara in the comments, don't know who she is, but fair play to her for standing up to the religious fundamentalists in the comments. I'd of easily flipped out if I had to argue against the constant MURDER. BAAABIES MURDERED!! when I said anything. SoooConvienent is defiantly .... just read her name and her comments.

In another part when a poster pointed out she had the choice of going to England when another poster said that no one has the right to choose and it was claimed the UK would suffer from "moral decay" because of its abortion regime. : eek: can you imagine it moral decay. Or what I like to call freedom of conscience.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/coalition-hoping-to-get-abortion-bill-passed-without-vote-29261391.html

Morag · 14-05-2013 12:14am

Pretty sure it's not a non issue if even one woman can't exercise her right to travel and as a result can not obtain the abortion she wants or needs.

Hotblack Desiato · 14-05-2013 1:10am

Nodin wrote: »

Meanwhile, at Dail Eireann......

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/coalition-hoping-to-get-abortion-bill-passed-without-vote-29261391.html

Fianna Fail leader Micheal Martin is the crucial figure in this scenario.
Labour and Fine Gael will tow the coalition line, and Sinn Fein are also heavily indicating support.

TOE. TOE the bloody line, as in not step over it :mad: Damn semi-literate so-called journalists.

Hotblack Desiato · 14-05-2013 1:11am

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

But, most of all, bear in mind that only an average of 10 women a day are making the journey. Even if they all used Bus Eireann, it wouldn't amount to a horde. It's a non-issue. It actually meets Frankfurt's definition of Bullsh*t.

Sure in the long run they'll all be dead anyway.

GCU Flexible Demeanour · 14-05-2013 1:41am

Morag wrote: »

Pretty sure it's not a non issue if even one woman can't exercise her right to travel and as a result can not obtain the abortion she wants or needs.

You're so right. And let's not forget the damn phallocentric winter of 2009, which was a direct attack on the right of rural women to stir outside their front door.

ninja900 wrote: »

Sure in the long run they'll all be dead anyway.

I'd say it's more a case of "on your bike".

im invisible · 14-05-2013 4:31am

ninja900 wrote: »

TOE. TOE the bloody line, as in not step over it :mad: Damn semi-literate so-called journalists.

lets' not belittle the enormity of the situation if this get's past

aloyisious · 14-05-2013 8:19am

So some-one in the House is sending a signal to Mike, don't go for a vote, let the bill through without a whisper. I can't see the Anti-choice group liking that notion, so I'm supposing they'll be using their House muscle to upset that plan, unless that muscle can be bought off with honey and the big stick. The Dail break's in July, there's plenty of time for political shenanigans.

Cork Boy · 14-05-2013 9:29am

The best gifts often come in strange little parcels. Just when FF were back on the rise along comes an issue to tear the party in half.

Do not mistake this for an ideological battle in FF, it's a battle of differing constituencies (i.e. votes) in a catch all party. How will FF try to please everyone on this? Do they keep going after the bead rattlers, or for the first time in history, do they look to the future? They mightn't be the best at the ol' maths when it's other people's money but when it comes to votes and euros for their own pockets they make NASA's staticians look like Young Earth Creationists.

FF are like a weathercock, you can be sure they'll know which way the wind is blowing on this one.

GCU Flexible Demeanour · 14-05-2013 9:52am

Cork Boy wrote: »

The best gifts often come in strange little parcels. Just when FF were back on the rise along comes an issue to tear the party in half.

Do not mistake this for an ideological battle in FF, it's a battle of differing constituencies (i.e. votes) in a catch all party. How will FF try to please everyone on this? <...>

FF are like a weathercock, you can be sure they'll know which way the wind is blowing on this one.

I agree with your basic read of this, I just wonder if FF still have the capacity to judge a national mood. As we know, the parliamentary party has been decimated in the urban areas. On the one hand, they must know that they need to recapture that vote. On the other, there's no-one actually there at parliamentary party meetings to say that. I can't see Eamon O'Cuiv saying "what this party needs is more Dubs like me, only ones who don't have a rural fixation."

So I'm not sure if FF have been cleverly positioning themselves on this issue, or whether they actually now lack the national reach to know how to do so.

kylith · 14-05-2013 10:26am

Indo Commenter wrote:

Originally Posted by from Indo Commenter
The atheist position is the gamble of a lifetime though, you have to admit. Also atheists tend to be more dour and reactive.

'Ye shall know them by their works', or something like that. Their dour and reactive works.

I like the word Dour, it has a lovely mouthfeel. Dour, dour, dour.

Obliq · 14-05-2013 10:43am

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

I just wonder if FF still have the capacity to judge a national mood. .................
So I'm not sure if FF have been cleverly positioning themselves on this issue, or whether they actually now lack the national reach to know how to do so.

I would say (here in my corner of rural Ireland) that they have stuck their heads in the sand so far that they have a nasty case of itchy bum. Not one reply did I receive from FF on the abortion issue, whereas Labour and FG (although I didn't agree with them) haven't actually ignored me. Most other's I know who actually approached their politicians (particularly in Clare & Galway) had the same lack of answer from FF.

I don't doubt that they have heard from both sides, but they are doing a masterful job of fence-sitting.

Nodin · 14-05-2013 1:13pm

kylith wrote: »

I like the word Dour, it has a lovely mouthfeel. Dour, dour, dour.

We're notoriously miserable bastards, it seems. Explains the complete lack of humour around here well enough.

Bannasidhe · 14-05-2013 1:16pm

Nodin wrote: »

We're notoriously miserable bastards, it seems. Explains the complete lack of humour around here well enough.

and we're very cranky.

Nodin · 14-05-2013 1:19pm

FIANNA Fail leader Micheal Martin is planning to say nothing at all publicly
about the abortion legislation for at least another week.

Mr Martin is being accused by pro-life groups of breaking his commitment to
"an Ireland without abortion".

A fortnight after the draft of the abortion bill was published, the leader of the opposition has yet to [COLOR=#009900 !important]express[/COLOR] an opinion publicly on the legislation.

Within Fianna Fail, he has told TDs he wants to support the legislation, but he has so far been unable to bring the [COLOR=#009900 !important]party[/COLOR] with him as a significant number are staunchly against it.

Mr Martin is the crucial figure if the abortion legislation is to be passed
without a divisive vote in the Dail. The party is divided with a 50:50 split on
supporting or opposing it.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/martin-plans-to-stay-silent-on-abortion-stance-29263841.html

If that is actually the case, I have to say I find it suprising. While I wouldn't expect FF to be a haven of liberal opinion on the matter, I would still have expected a clear majority to favour abortion in limited circumstances.

aloyisious · 14-05-2013 4:15pm

It might all depend on a "battle of the mommys" to decide the outcome. Hopefully they'll swing the TD's towards the reality of their position as the main people involved. Hopefully they'll make the notion of Irish women being forced into the position of travelling abroad for prime healthcare due to the conscience decisions of voluntarily-celibate men dated.

The other side of making/keeping abortion illegal resulted in this HORROR story: http://www.irishexaminer.com/world/abortion-doctor-guilty-of-murder-risks-death-penalty-231254.html

nagirrac · 14-05-2013 4:25pm

aloyisious wrote: »

The other side of making/keeping abortion illegal resulted in this HORROR story: http://www.irishexaminer.com/world/abortion-doctor-guilty-of-murder-risks-death-penalty-231254.html[/QUOTE]

That is not a good argument for the pro choice side (which I am on). Abortion is legal in the US, but killing a 30 week foetus that has been born alive by slicing through its neck is not, which is why this so called doctor is going to prison.

There may be a demand for late term abortion, but this incident does the pro choice side no good whatsoever and should be condemned by all sides of the debate.

marienbad · 14-05-2013 4:36pm

Nodin wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/martin-plans-to-stay-silent-on-abortion-stance-29263841.html

If that is actually the case, I have to say I find it suprising. While I wouldn't expect FF to be a haven of liberal opinion on the matter, I would still have expected a clear majority to favour abortion in limited circumstances.

Not a chance Nodin, they will exploit this purely for political advantage . I would be astonished if they do not force this to a vote.

Those that would disagree with them would (a) not have voted for them anyway or (b) would be those that support them no matter what.

When the dust settles they will claim to be the sole party with Christian values or some such mantra.

That has always been their genius , to cobble together a load of coalitions within the electorate that actually nothing in common with each other.
And the bonus of having this issue out of the way and no loss to them.

nagirrac · 14-05-2013 4:42pm

How could it give them political advantage if the party is split 50:50? A vote is more likely to tear the party apart. FF desperately need to get urban voters back, opposing this legislation would do the opposite. They will act tough for a week and then cave in. There will be no vote imo, as none of the major parties want a vote. Martin is a cute Cork hoor, so he will give the impression of careful reflection for a week.

marienbad · 14-05-2013 4:48pm

nagirrac wrote: »

How could it give them political advantage if the party is split 50:50? A vote is more likely to tear the party apart. FF desperately need to get urban voters back, opposing this legislation would do the opposite. They will act tough for a week and then cave in. There will be no vote imo, as none of the major parties want a vote. Martin is a cute Cork hoor, so he will give the impression of careful reflection for a week.

You could be right , time will soon tell. But it would be very easy for the prochoice people to either vote no on a supposed issue or abstain, knowing full well the bill will pass anyway. Thus they are the prolife party and SF in particular are the opposite . .

They only care about power , how to get it and keep it , nothing else matters.

But maybe I am just too cynical

Sarky · 14-05-2013 4:55pm

An impressive amount of people using the #prolife hashtag on Twitter today to express their glee at Gosnell getting the death penalty, without a trace of irony. What the f*ck is wrong with those people?

Turtwig · 14-05-2013 4:58pm

Sarky wrote: »

An impressive amount of people using the #prolife hashtag on Twitter today to express their glee at Gosnell getting the death penalty, without a trace of irony. What the f*ck is wrong with those people?

I'd be tempted to tweet to them the stupid statement:
If Gosnell was aborted his atrocities would never have been committed.:pac:

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