Abortion/ *Note* Thread Closing Shortly! ! !

kylith

Does anyone know of numbers for last Saturday's rally at Central Bank?

Delirium

300 according to Journal.ie article

Galvasean

koth wrote: »

300 according to Journal.ie article

That sign really sums up how twisted the proposed legislation actually is.

robindch

Youth Defence muscle up for the next poster campaign:

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/05/20/back-from-the-printers/

Will be interesting to see if their posters stay up after what happened to the pro-choice posters last week.

Galvasean

I wonder what misrepresentation and/or downright lies will be plastered on the new batch/

Bannasidhe

Galvasean wrote: »

I wonder what misrepresentation and/or downright lies will be plastered on the new batch/

Time for 'Misrepresentation Bingo!'

Galvasean

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Time for 'Misrepresentation Bingo!'

"Abortion is never needed to save a woman's life"
"Without abortion Ireland is the safest place for maternal care"
"There is no evidence that abortion is a treatment for suicide"
"Love them both"
"Pro-life promise"
- Photographic content that breaches someone else's copyright.

Do I win?

Bannasidhe

Galvasean wrote: »

"Abortion is never needed to save a woman's life"
"Without abortion Ireland is the safest place for maternal care"
"There is no evidence that abortion is a treatment for suicide"
"Love them both"
"Pro-life promise"
- Photographic content that breaches someone else's copyright.

Do I win?

Probably but we should at least wait for the posters like.

Lingua Franca

- Wild accusation of pro choice unethical behaviour that they themselves are known to do.

Anyone up for pulling some posters down?

Turtwig

Lingua Franca wrote: »

- Wild accusation of pro choice unethical behaviour that they themselves are known to do.

Anyone up for pulling some posters down?

Are you not in the Netherlands?

Lingua Franca

Yes, I'm over here sinning like a champ. It's like Sodom and Gonorreah over here.

Galvasean

Lingua Franca wrote: »

Yes, I'm over here sinning like a champ. It's like Sodom and Gonorreah over here.

What do the floodgates look like once opened?

HurtLocker

robindch wrote: »

Youth Defence muscle up for the next poster campaign:

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/05/20/back-from-the-printers/

Will be interesting to see if their posters stay up after what happened to the pro-choice posters last week.

You'd think the yanks money could cover a nicer van.

Is find it very creepy to see a man putting up Save the babies and No abortion for rape victims sit into a van like that!

robindch

Galvasean wrote: »

"Abortion is never needed to save a woman's life"

Ah, but that's quite true. If you use the church's new definition of "abortion" as being "any termination that's not necessary to save a woman's life".

Checkmate atheists!

Morag

I reckon we will see some sort of angle on the 'human rights' of the 'unborn'

Lingua Franca

Galvasean wrote: »

What do the floodgates look like once opened?

A heady mix of egalitarianism and vastly reduced child poverty.

Nodin

Lingua Franca wrote: »

A heady mix of egalitarianism and vastly reduced child poverty.

....yet another godless hellhole then.

Bannasidhe

Nodin wrote: »

....yet another godless hellhole then.

a godless hellhole with bicycles. The barstards.

aloyisious

One of the expert Psychiatric witnesses ( Professor Kevin Malone) before the committee has told it that allowing in law for the possibility that a pregnant woman may commit suicide to end a forced birth on her may - in Professor Kelly's words - end in suicide being legitimized in young mens minds if they see the law's acceptance of the chance that a female might commit suicide to end a unwanted birth legitimizing her suicide threat.

This, according to Professor Malone, might well result in an increase of young men committing suicide in the belief that the law see's it as a legitimate act. I wait for statistics to be rolled out to prove his point. Hopefully some-one will call his bluff and demand that he produce studies, statistics and reports to prove his leap in the dark.

Edit.. I got the name wrong, it's Kevin Malone, he's a professor in Medicine at UCD and has been quoted in various reports on young male suicide ratios vis a vie other groups.

Galvasean

That's what I thought I heard. I just assumed I had misheard. What a strange connection to make.

The Black Oil

Re Enda and Boston college...

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/antiabortion-activists-protest-at-taoiseachs-boston-college-speech-29281354.html

John O'Donoghue, from Artane in Dublin, who is now living in Massachusetts told the Irish Independent: "He's a man who shouldn't be let inside the door here.

Free speech, but only on our terms.

Speaking to the Irish Independent, David Murphy from Mallow, Co. Cork, who has been living in Boston for the last five years, attending high school here, said: "I came to protest Enda Kenny, to defend God's honour, to protect innocent life and prevent abortion from entering Ireland." He added that he, and many of his fellow protestors were keen for Ireland to return to its roots firmly engrained within the Catholic Church.

Head. Sand. Etc.

Galvasean

Saw the protestors on the RTE news today. Some girl was mouthing off about how Enda Kenny has been trying to get abortion up to the full nine months brought into Ireland. Where do these guys get their info?

Bannasidhe

Galvasean wrote: »

Saw the protestors on the RTE news today. Some girl was mouthing off about how Enda Kenny has been trying to get abortion up to the full nine months brought into Ireland. Where do these guys get their info?

Yuff Defense posters, leaflets and unsolicited phone call of course.

Pherekydes

Galvasean wrote: »

Saw the protestors on the RTE news today. Some girl was mouthing off about how Enda Kenny has been trying to get abortion up to the full nine months brought into Ireland. Where do these guys get their info?

They make it up. Enda should sue them for slander.

aloyisious

The speeches were made in the US under it's 1st Amendment to that country's constitution, other jurisdiction etc etc.

LittleBook

Galvasean wrote: »

That's what I thought I heard. I just assumed I had misheard. What a strange connection to make.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/abortion-bill-risks-normalising-suicide-says-leading-psychiatrist-1.1400627

Nearly 600 words on the front page of the Irish Times today under the huge headline ... ABORTION BILL RISKS NORMALISING SUICIDE, SAYS LEADING PSYCHIATRIST ... the biggest article on the front page ... and I'm still no closer to an explanation of what the hell he means.

The Government’s plans to legislate for abortion could have the unintended consequence of pushing more young men towards suicide, according to a leading psychiatrist.

The inclusion of a suicide clause in the legislation could cost more lives than it saved by “normalising” it, Prof Kevin Malone told the second day of the Oireachtas health committee’s hearing on the proposed abortion Bill .

Dr Malone, professor of psychiatry in UCD and co-founder of the charity Turn the Tide of Suicide, had earlier in the day launched a major report on suicide among Irish males. By highlighting suicide, the State could be seen as legitimising it, thereby sending the wrong signal to young men who were most at risk, he warned.

Bobby42

This the most nonsense argument I've heard during the abortion debate.

I still can't get my head around it. Normalising suicide? Anyone who suggests that more men will complete suicides due to abortion legislation hasn't a clue about mental health and suicide.

So a debate about women and pregnancy has been turned into "no, cant have this legislation, it might harm men".

Fidelma Healy Eames said something similar yesterday. That the legislation will mean that people will benefit from being suicidal.

therefore more people will express suicidal ideation because the legislation will mean you can personally benefit from being suicidal.

The debate has decented into complete farce.

The Black Oil

You have to wonder how much some of these people actually know about suicide and how a good therapist or intervention can walk a person back from that level of despair. Though admittedly, the resources aren't always available, and some people don't feel able to ask for help.

I don't understand the point about young men. At all. They are already killing themselves in significant numbers. Are some of these people trying to suggest the problem will get worse due to this legislation? Surely the circumstances of feeling suicidal are located much more in a person's life. Do these people think people are going to roll up saying 'I'm suicidal under section 23, clause ii'? Seriously, some of the debate is utterly daft.

CerebralCortex

The Black Oil wrote: »

You have to wonder how much some of these people actually know about suicide and how a good therapist or intervention can walk a person back from that level of despair. Though admittedly, the resources aren't always available, and some people don't feel able to ask for help.

I don't understand the point about young men. At all. They are already killing themselves in significant numbers. Are some of these people trying to suggest the problem will get worse due to this legislation? Surely the circumstances of feeling suicidal are located much more in a person's life. Do these people think people are going to roll up saying 'I'm suicidal under section 23, clause ii'? Seriously, some of the debate is utterly daft.

It's just a slippery slope fallacy in practice right?

SebBerkovich

For something better from the irish times - Miriam Lord has again brilliantly but this bill into perspective...

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/doctors-differ-patients-fly-and-majority-in-leinster-house-give-abortion-bill-a-wide-berth-1.1400702?page=1

And for the thousands of Irish citizens who vote with their foetus and take the aircraft, nothing changes. Doctors differ and patients fly.