Abortion/ *Note* Thread Closing Shortly! ! !

robindch

lazygal wrote: »

Plastic Foetus, featuring the Taoiseach of Death, sing Every Sperm is Sacred.

A sound and video editing app and youtube are your friend.

aloyisious

A Taoiseach with cojones

Bannasidhe

aloyisious wrote: »

A Taoiseach with cojones

We usually have cojones of Taoiseach so the combination of balls+Taoiseach is well lodged in our national psyche.


:pac:

doublefeck

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Another great name for a heavy metal band! :pac:

There was I thinking it was the latest release from 'Slipknot'!

Obliq

lazygal wrote: »

Plastic Foetus, featuring the Taoiseach of Death, sing Every Sperm is Sacred.


I'd buy that track.

:D I bought this one :

Scraping Foetus off the Wheel were legend. Check em out I reckon we'd definitely be sinning singing along with bands like The Taoisigh of Death, or indeed The Wife Swapping Sodomites if they'd hurry up and invent songs like this one (or my all time fav that I won't mention here for fear of war with t'others )

Morag

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/poll-suggests-overwhelming-support-for-proposed-legislation-on-abortion-1.1426365

Delirium

Poll suggests overwhelming support for proposed legislation on abortion

There is overwhelming public support for the Government’s proposed legislation on abortion, according to the latest Irish Times/Ipsos MRBI poll.

The poll also shows that a substantial majority of voters back wider access to abortion than that being proposed in the legislation.

The poll was conducted on Monday and Tuesday of this week as the debate over publication of the detailed legislation was at its height.

The statement from the Catholic bishops opposing the legislation was issued on Tuesday.

Asked if they were for or against the heads of the Bill to legislate for the Supreme Court X judgment of 1992 permitting abortion where a mother’s life is in danger, 75 per cent said Yes, 14 per cent said No and 11 per cent had no opinion.

lazygal

Pff... that survey is clearly biased/didn't ask the right questions/isn't represenative/was carried out but people didn't know what they were being asked/doesn't support my view so I'm going to rubbish it.



Says one D. Quinn, Catholic.

Turtwig

78 per cent were in favour in cases where a woman’s health is at risk.

Surely 8th Amendment should come under fire if opinion polls consistently keep saying that figure want abortion when health is at risk?

lazygal

Jernal wrote: »

Surely 8th Amendment should come under fire if opinion polls consistently keep saying that figure want abortion when health is at risk?

It should, but I can't see any government wanting another referendum on abortion.

The Black Oil

I could hardly believe that headline this afternoon about Enda not being a 'Catholic Taoiseach'. For him to come out and say that is pretty amazing, really. (I'm not a FG voter).

As for Ronan Mullen, what is that guy's problem? Almost every time he's in the news he's flinging insults or nonsense. All these more off the wall pro-lifers want to make it about them - they're the victims.

Sierra 117

Watching pro-birthers whine about Enda not allowing TDs a free vote is hilarious considering they're doing everything they can think of to force TDs to vote against the legislation.

Sierra 117

I am curious about something though; if Fine Gael are voted out, could the next government remove the legislation if they wanted?

lazygal

Sierra 117 wrote: »

I am curious about something though; if Fine Gael are voted out, could the next government remove the legislation if they wanted?

It's a bit tricky, because its legislation for what is a constitutional right. I'd say there'd be murmerings of 'reviews' and possibly examining the Bill/Act in terms of amendments, but I would think its difficult to repeal legislation giving effect to a constitutional right. It would raise difficulties constituionally, as well as with Europe.

swampgas

lazygal wrote: »

It should, but I can't see any government wanting another referendum on abortion.

I agree, the political parties have always been very slow to engage on anything to do with abortion unless forced to by circumstance.

It may be interesting to see what the long term fallout is after the current legislation goes through. The church has made it's position clear and it has been rebuffed by the government. Poll after poll has shown that the people are ready for a change. I wonder if the seeds have been sown for a significant shift in political positioning?

After all, I wonder how many political parties will be willing to go into the next election declaring themselves to be anti-abortion?

lazygal

I would think there'll be 'prolife' candidates rather than parties, who'll promise to fight to repeal the legislation. FF passed prolife motions at the Ard Fheis, but some of its TDs and Senators plan to vote in favour of the Bill, and there's no unity on opposing it.

The Black Oil

I'm not very familiar with how the European angle comes into the pressure on Ireland, but sometimes you'd have to wonder where this country with be without any European connections. A bit scary.

Galvasean

Sierra 117 wrote: »

Watching pro-birthers whine about Enda not allowing TDs a free vote is hilarious considering they're doing everything they can think of to force TDs to vote against the legislation.

I'd call it more ironic than funny. They had no problem using the party whip to vote down Clare Daly's bill, but now that the whip is in the other hand, so to speak, it's the worst thing ever.

Mark Hamill

koth wrote: »

As promising as the results of that poll is, 17% of people wouldn't permit an abortion where the foetus wouldn't survive outside the womb and 11% of people wouldn't permit an abortion where the mothers life was in danger.
I don't know whether to be :mad: or .

Flier

Mark Hamill wrote: »

and 11% of people wouldn't permit an abortion where the mothers life was in danger.
I don't know whether to be :mad: or .

Ah, but that's because "abortion is never necessary to save a woman's life"


*searching for 'head banging against brick wall' emoticon.

Galvasean

Mark Hamill wrote: »

As promising as the results of that poll is, 17% of people wouldn't permit an abortion where the foetus wouldn't survive outside the womb and 11% of people wouldn't permit an abortion where the mothers life was in danger.
I don't know whether to be :mad: or .

Look at it this way; in those cases the numbers against are decreasing (probably dying off due to old age) so such ways of thinking are on the way out.
The results show what everybody already knew; that the 'pro-lifers' are little more than a noisy minority.

Morag

mohawk

I don't know why I ever read anything said by pro-lifers. Many of them are implying that women are going to wait until the end of a pregnancy before just deciding that they don't actually want the child and are going to 'decide' to act suicidal in order get an abortion. This ****e about third trimester abortions makes me angry.:mad:


Do you think you can do damage to your eyeballs from rolling them too much?

Loafing Oaf

I'm pretty gobsmacked at these and other recent poll findings on the issue. Right up to the end of the last century, long past Irish people had become 'liberal' converts on other issues, opinion polls were showing two-thirds majorities opposed to any liberalisation of abortion. I'm wondering when exactly this sea change happened and what brought it about?

Hotblack Desiato

It's not that new, 20 years ago we were asked specifically to remove suicide as a grounds for abortion - we refused. The electorate has been way ahead of the politicians on this for years.

I'd put the poll results you refer to down to a combination of human nature and bad polling. When people are faced with a question in the abstract, and they know the answer they give has no real effect, it's just easier for many people to tell the pollster the 'safe' answer.
When you know your answer will shape the law of the land, and when you've seen the effects of the current bad law on real-life people, more careful consideration and more honesty is required.


Arguably, the 8th amendment campaign was the start of Ireland turning away from catholic dogma - although it was passed 67:33% it wasn't by as large a majority as was expected, and only barely passed 51:49% in Dublin.

Think about it - even thirty years ago, fully one-third of the electorate was prepared to defy what every priest and most politicians were calling on it to do - long before any of the abuse scandals were known. It didn't look it on the surface, but Ireland had already started to change radically.


Also it's by now become clear to most people that the so-called pro-lifers are a bunch of charlatans, liars, and misogynists. We've seen what a mess the amendment they (and tons of US cash) hoodwinked this country into 30 years ago has turned out to be. We've seen how their 'abortion never necessary to protect a woman's life' was a lie. We've seen the same crowd turn up at every EU referendum peddling lies that never come to pass, either, which hasn't done their credibility any good at all.

Everyone remembers 'wife swapping sodomites' and not many of us want that sort of mentality to have control in this country again.

lazygal

Just heard Caroline Simons on Morning Ireland spouting the same old nonsense, abortion is never a treatment for suicide, other studies show that the anti choicers are right, deliberate targeting of the unborn.....I'm going to enjoy the footstamping from her, Breda, David, Ronan and the rest of the gang when this Bill is passed.

aloyisious

Bannasidhe wrote: »

We usually have cojones of Taoiseach so the combination of balls+Taoiseach is well lodged in our national psyche.


:pac:

Tut tut, our politicos never make a balls-up of things:D

UDP

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I'm pretty gobsmacked at these and other recent poll findings on the issue. Right up to the end of the last century, long past Irish people had become 'liberal' converts on other issues, opinion polls were showing two-thirds majorities opposed to any liberalisation of abortion. I'm wondering when exactly this sea change happened and what brought it about?

When the country slowly started moved away from listening to men with white collars and started thinking for themselves.

UDP

lazygal wrote: »

Just heard Caroline Simons on Morning Ireland spouting the same old nonsense, abortion is never a treatment for suicide, other studies show that the anti choicers are right, deliberate targeting of the unborn.....I'm going to enjoy the footstamping from her, Breda, David, Ronan and the rest of the gang when this Bill is passed.

You forgot "these polls have leading questions whereas our polls are taken by independent organisations". Yeah f'ucking right.

lazygal

Enda says he's not a Catholic taoiseach. Fair enough. But he must have some governing philosophy. What is it?

Just saw this^tweet from Quinn.


It's obvious he thinks those without a religious basis for their 'governing philosophy' need to explain themselves. How would he react if asked to explain how he arrived at his philosophy?