Abortion/ *Note* Thread Closing Shortly! ! !

eviltwin

Can anyone tell me any studies that show that abortion doesn't have a link to depression and if any of the ones that do have been proven to be unreliable?

Morag

http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2010/12/20/study-debunks-theory-abortion-trauma/

http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/myths/post_abortion_syndrome.html

http://siecus.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=Feature.showFeature&featureID=1984

http://www.apa.org/pi/women/programs/abortion/

If there are existing or previous mental health issues then being in a crises pregnancy situation can make them worse or cause them to return no matter what choice the person makes and lack off accessibility to the choice they make can gain be a stresser.

eviltwin

Morag wrote: »

http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2010/12/20/study-debunks-theory-abortion-trauma/

http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/myths/post_abortion_syndrome.html

http://siecus.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=Feature.showFeature&featureID=1984

http://www.apa.org/pi/women/programs/abortion/

If there are existing or previous mental health issues then being in a crises pregnancy situation can make them worse or cause them to return not matter what choice the person makes and lack off accessibility to the choice they make can gain be a stresser.

thank you so much Morag

MrPudding

Zombrex wrote: »

Yup

Wouldn't it be hilarious if this guy didn't mask his IP, or even worse used his real email address. Radical Christians aren't known for their grasp of modern technology

Or reality...

MrP

Bobby42

So Niamh Uí Bhriain was on Fox News, playing the victim over the inaccurate indo piece claiming pro life campaigners protested Enda Kenny's house when it was actually a father's rights group.

A fair criticism. But any sense of credibility goes out the window when she goes on to claim that Savita never requested a termination, even though its on record she did.

How dare you lie, only I'm allowed lie.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/06/19/baseless-allegations-and-false-stories/

loveisdivine

I don't think this has been posted yet. Its from the U.S so not relevant to whats happening here, but certainly relevant to the abortion debate overall.

Whole new levels of *facepalm*

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/06/18/rep_mike_burgess_of_texas_suggests_banning_abortion_because_fetuses_masturbate.html

Watch a sonogram of a 15-week baby, and they have movements that are purposeful. They stroke their face. If they’re a male baby, they may have their hand between their legs. If they feel pleasure, why is it so hard to believe that they could feel pain?

One of my favorite comments from below the article -

New bumper sticker: "Abortion Stops a Beating Heart...And a **** Hand."

Delirium

loveisdivine wrote: »

I don't think this has been posted yet. Its from the U.S so not relevant to whats happening here, but certainly relevant to the abortion debate overall.

Whole new levels of *facepalm*

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/06/18/rep_mike_burgess_of_texas_suggests_banning_abortion_because_fetuses_masturbate.html

One of my favorite comments from below the article -

Does that mean that the congressman has been watching child porn since it's basically a child engaged in a sexual act?

krudler

Anyone getting the pro-life ads on youtube? have adblocker on my laptop but one appeared on my phone the other night, skipped that mofo the instant i could.

loveisdivine

koth wrote: »

Does that mean that the congressman has been watching child porn since it's basically a child engaged in a sexual act?

Yes it does. It also means the unborn are all tiny little sinners!

Sierra 117

krudler wrote: »

Anyone getting the pro-life ads on youtube? have adblocker on my laptop but one appeared on my phone the other night, skipped that mofo the instant i could.

I've gotten a video from the Life Institute a few times. I skip it as soon as I can.

Obliq

loveisdivine wrote: »

Whole new levels of *facepalm*

Sarky posted it up yesterday - unreal alright

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/06/michael-burgess-fetus-masturbation/66345/

His link has some more facts about it though. Interestingly, the only study Burgess could be refering to was actually of a female fetus at 32 weeks. He's managed to totally undermine his claim which was to say a 15 week old fetus can feel pleasure, and therefore pain, by getting the facts arsewise

"So is he right? Well, sorta ... but not really. In the blurry, ultrasonographic world of masturbating fetuses, the most conclusive finding was in 1996, when two Italian doctors witnessed what they believed was a female fetus purportedly masturbating for 20 minutes and logged their discovery in a letter to The American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology. That abstract isn't available online, but their finding has been cited, and previews of the study exist:



But that fetus was at 32 weeks, not 15 weeks, as Burgess cited. And at 32 weeks, fetuses are usually around 3.5 pounds. At 15 weeks, fetuses are around 4 inches long and weigh just a few ounces."

Sarky

I'd be quite surprised if anyone had any genitals to speak of at 15 weeks.

kylith

Sarky wrote: »

I'd be quite surprised if anyone had any genitals to speak of at 15 weeks.

Apparently a skilled sonograph technician can make a best guess, but that's all it'll be until 18/20 weeks. In my googling I also found that at 15 weeks "your baby's ears are now on its head" and "its eyes are now moving into position" :eek:

lazygal

A baby's ears are on its head at 15 weeks????


MIND BLOWN. Sure who could abort that?

Bannasidhe

lazygal wrote: »

A baby's ears are on its head at 15 weeks????


MIND BLOWN. Sure who could abort that?

and it's eyes aren't there yet but they are nearly there.

lazygal

Bannasidhe wrote: »

and it's eyes aren't there yet but they are nearly there.

Sure if that's not a preshus preborn fully formed human being deserving of life even if mine is at risk I don't know what is. CHUUS LIIIIFEEE!!!!

Morag

Been looking over the proposed legislation and the up to 14 years in jail aspect.

So if a woman is pregnant and is suicidal and doesn't want to see possibly 7 drs
and tries unsuccessfully to end her own life but her attempt on her life results in the end of her pregnancy, she can be charged with attempting an abortion and may face
that up to 14 years in jail.

It really boggles the mind how this legislation creates such a situation on top of how it separates general physically health and mental health.

Richard Bingham

28064212 wrote: »

Depression can also be a temporary factor. And they are trained to treat any suicidal feelings, not just depression. Is there a real and substantial threat to her life from the risk of suicide? Then yes, she is entitled to an abortion

I agree that depression can be and often is a temporary factor and psychiatrists are trained to treat it and also to treat suicidal feelings generally. I expect its likely so, that they will treat any woman who says she wants an abortion because she is suicidal, before they sign off on the abortion.

Galvasean

Zombrex wrote: »

(which is why movies like "Air Force One" or "Olympus Has Fallen" are so silly).

but so much fun!

GCU Flexible Demeanour

eviltwin wrote: »

Can anyone tell me any studies that show that abortion doesn't have a link to depression and if any of the ones that do have been proven to be unreliable?

The great thing about this topic is you'll always find someone to tell you whatever it is you want to hear.

kylith

lazygal wrote: »

A baby's ears are on its head at 15 weeks????


MIND BLOWN. Sure who could abort that?

They start off on the neck!

I think I'll use that in future arguments about "Babies are human beings from conception" "Until 15 weeks it has ears on its neck, does that sound human?"

aloyisious

The Youth Defence posters I've seen around town make me wonder whether to laugh or cry, "Abortion doesn't save lives, it just kills babies". I couldn't remember the exact words, so had to "google" them, and found that in 21/12/'12, DCC instructed Youth Defence to remove any posters it had put up near Leinster House on Merrion St and Moleworth St, as it had not applied for permission from DCC to put them up. The posters I saw were at the bottom of Kildare St and on Merrion Square.

The Black Oil

Caroline Simons was doing the media rounds today, or at least calling for a free vote and that its absence was a threat to democracy, etc.

Richard Bingham

Richard Bingham wrote: »

I agree that depression can be and often is a temporary factor and psychiatrists are trained to treat it and also to treat suicidal feelings generally. I expect its likely so, that they will treat any woman who says she wants an abortion because she is suicidal, before they sign off on the abortion.

As such the only abortions which will result will be ones where the pregnant woman can't be cured of her suicidal ideation which should be extremely rare.

Corkfeen

Richard Bingham wrote: »

As such the only abortions which will result will be ones where the pregnant woman can't be cured of her suicidal ideation which should be extremely rare.

Suicidality is most definitely not an easily resolvable issue as you seem to believe. You've simply reinforced the fact that the average Irish person is oblivious to mental health issues in the country.

28064212

Richard Bingham wrote: »

As such the only abortions which will result will be ones where the pregnant woman can't be cured of her suicidal ideation which should be extremely rare.

Of course. Who has said anything different? The only point of the current legislation is to enable a constitutional right which exists in rare cases.

Richard Bingham

Corkfeen wrote: »

Suicidality is most definitely not an easily resolvable issue as you seem to believe. You've simply reinforced the fact that the average Irish person is oblivious to mental health issues in the country.

So you think there will be loads do you?

Gumbi

Is there any research to show that women can be genuinely suicidal and that the best solution would be an abortion?

Gumbi

Richard Bingham wrote: »

So you think there will be loads do you?

Miss the point much?

Anyways, is there any research to show that women can be genuinely suicidal and that the best solution would be an abortion?

Turtwig

Gumbi wrote: »

Is there any research to show that women can be genuinely suicidal and that the best solution would be an abortion?

What you do mean by "genuinely" suicidal? Of course women can be suicidal.

As for you second question. Nope there isn't. Likely never will be either. For it you'd need to deny abortions to women who are suicidal that might benefit from abortions and compare them to women who are suicidal who got abortions. That's medical ethics fail 101.