Abortion/ *Note* Thread Closing Shortly! ! !

Bannasidhe

aloyisious wrote: »

Well Billy Timmins is on Drive-time right now explaining that his decision is based on what Irish Gynacologists and Psychiatrists, Maternity Hospital Doctors have told him. that the bill is bad law.

I don't think anyone thinks this bill is good law.

Turtwig

aloyisious wrote: »

Well Billy Timmins is on Drive-time right now explaining that his decision is based on what Irish Gynacologists and Psychiatrists, Maternity Hospital Doctors have told him. that the bill is bad law.

That's funny, I watched a large proportions of the Committee hearings in January and June. Billy Timmins was the guy I ranted about a month back. It didn't look like he had a clue what was in the legislation. I'd love to do a Q&A with him to see how much knowledge he actual has of the bills contents.

aloyisious

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I don't think anyone thinks this bill is good law.

I agree, it's an unfortunate piece of law thought necessary to try and ensure that pregnant women have a fair chance of life in emergency, or other, medical situations where current medical council and statute law thinking is that the foetus's safety has primacy over that of the woman.

Nodin

"AN ADVERTISING COMPANY has discontinued their contract with Youth Defence after an anti-abortion billboard was seen parked opposite the Dublin Rape Crisis centre."


http://www.thejournal.ie/admobile-company-drops-youth-defence-after-rape-crisis-incident-969637-Jun2013/

Obliq

Nodin wrote: »

"AN ADVERTISING COMPANY has discontinued their contract with Youth Defence after an anti-abortion billboard was seen parked opposite the Dublin Rape Crisis centre."


http://www.thejournal.ie/admobile-company-drops-youth-defence-after-rape-crisis-incident-969637-Jun2013/

Excellent. I'm taking some credit for that one

The Black Oil

“Youth Defence did not instruct the mobile ad to park anywhere on Leeson Street or on any other street for that matter,” said Clare Molloy who added that the furore was a “horrible and exploitative effort by abortion campaigners to use rape victims to attack the pro-life message”.

Always playing the victim card.

Mardy Bum

The ad company has also closed ranks.

“It was an unfortunate incident and we apologise if anyone took offence, particularly because it is such an emotive issue, but it was a genuine, innocent error.”

lazygal

The company still took on Youth Defence as a client in the first place. I know who I won't be using for my mobile advertising needs in future.

Obliq

lazygal wrote: »

The company still took on Youth Defence as a client in the first place. I know who I won't be using for my mobile advertising needs in future.

I still went and thanked them for dropping YD. But I know what you mean.....however, I can understand companies taking anyone's money at the mo (this one just realised why it ain't worth that tho.....)

lazygal

Obliq wrote: »

I still went and thanked them for dropping YD. But I know what you mean.....however, I can understand companies taking anyone's money at the mo (this one just realised why it ain't worth that tho.....)

I can't. Business isn't always business for me, a company who'll work with Youth Defence isn't one I'm impressed with.

Obliq

lazygal wrote: »

I can't. Business isn't always business for me, a company who'll work with Youth Defence isn't one I'm impressed with.

Fair enough. I don't reckon this damage limitation turn around will help them anyway....that was BAAAD advertising for them.

Corkfeen

Obliq wrote: »

Excellent. I'm taking some credit for that one

Me too, my twitter stalkers went nuts at me.... :pac:

Hotblack Desiato

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I'm being reminded of a controversial "Doonebury" sketch, where a Texan woman is asked something like, "Do you want to go through with this abortion?" The woman replies with something like, "Especially if it turns out to be Rick Perry."

http://doonesbury.slate.com/strip/archive/2012/3/12


http://doonesbury.slate.com/strip/archive/2012/3/13


http://doonesbury.slate.com/strip/archive/2012/3/14


http://doonesbury.slate.com/strip/archive/2012/3/15


http://doonesbury.slate.com/strip/archive/2012/3/16


http://doonesbury.slate.com/strip/archive/2012/3/17

Frank Bullitt

YD are playing the serious innocent card on their twitter, it's embarrassing to watch really.

Bobby42

Out of all of the streets in Dublin city centre, out of all of the buildings on Leeson Street, they just happen to have it parked up near the rape crisis centre.

Pure coincidence. :rolleyes:

Even if it was an accident, its still pretty tasteless to have it constantly driving past the centre.

Hotblack Desiato

I think it's past time that this sort of 'advertising' whether posters, billboards, trucks etc. is regulated along the same lines as commercial advertising.

If they want to make political statements then let them register as a political party, or at the very least abide by the funding rules for political lobby groups. 'Political speech' still shouldn't include a right to cause gratuituous offence, post stillbirth pictures, misrepresent the statements and studies of third parties, etc.

But, every time YD open their mouth, send a tweet or post another ad they convince another neutral they're just a bunch of well-funded crazies.

Morag

http://rabble.ie/2013/06/27/youth-defence-flaunts-dcc-rules/

Dublin City Council allows postering on their property (e.g. lamposts) within strict guidelines (here). Posters may only be posted for specific events and/or meetings. They must be posted within 7 days of the event/meeting and taken down within 7 days of the event/meeting’s finish.

Youth Defence recently posted the posters (above) across the city to advertise a ‘Pro-Life Meeting’ on Sat.22/06 at 5pm in Wynn’s Hotel. Our source attended Wynn’s Hotel at the appointed time to find no meeting in progress. Our source enquired within the hotel and they had no knowledge of the supposed meeting. Our source later phoned the Duty Manager (name recorded) and he confirmed that no booking had been made.

The information was passed to DCC.

We challenge DCC publicly to act against Youth Defence. Wynn’s Hotel - Phone: 01-874 5131. We believe a fine of €150 per poster have been imposed on many other groups in the past

Richard Bingham

Obliq wrote: »

I'll bite. I do not think "equal right to life of a foetus and a woman" is a good thing to even say or think, never mind put in the fcuking constitution.

As for forced into the constitution, I don't think that's the right word. Some better ones that spring to mind in relation to both the politicians and public that legislated for the 8th amendment are DUPED, MISLED, BULLIED, BADGERED, MISREPRESENTED, GULLED, DOMINATED and BULLDOZED by the powerful Catholic right-wing lobby group known as the P.L.A.C. and the entire weight of the RCC.

Their timing was impeccable - there was an extremely shaky government, with 3 changes in 18 months at the time. The Irish people had yet to hear a word about the child sex abuse scandals that toppled the RCC off their moral high ground, and the internet hadn't been invented, so we were still pretty damn ignorant about sex and women's rights. Sure, we'd only just got the use of condoms after having to stand up to the law and break it about that too.

It's all there to be seen by everyone now. With hindsight, we can see exactly what went down, so this is one tree it's not worth your while barking up. I'm so fcuking furious (due to being educated) about the history of the 8th amendment and what it says/does to women of Ireland that I can't take anyone as fully rational who supports it being there. :mad::mad:

http://politico.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5472:cover-story-backlash-and-blackmail&catid=222:society&Itemid=1245 From 1982 - A long article, but a large eye-opener about the kind of twisted-fcukery that brought us the unlovely 8th. I have MUCH, MUCH more. Want to go there bud?

Why can some people debate civilly and others can't. Unlike you I don't pretend to know everything so I asked. If this is how you answer I'm not interested.

And lose the tough guy act - it doesn't impress anyone when you're anonymous, and you wouldn't say it to my face.

Turtwig

Richard Bingham wrote: »

Why can some people debate civilly and others can't. Unlike you I don't pretend to know everything so I asked. If this is how you answer I'm not interested.

And lose the tough guy act - it doesn't impress anyone when you're anonymous, and you wouldn't say it to my face.

I think it was would be far more constructive for both parties if you actually gave some constructive criticism on the post. What was it about the reply that could be changed to make it more acceptable in your eyes?

Obliq

Jernal wrote: »

I think it was would be far more constructive for both parties if you actually gave some constructive criticism on the post. What was it about the reply that could be changed to make it more acceptable in your eyes?

Thanks Jernal. I could lose the curse words out of my post if that is where the problem lies? Other than that, bring it on Bingham

Ps. I most definitely would say all that to your face. I have no difficulty standing over what I have said (although I could in fairness leave the cursing out of it) and don't, in all honesty, see any problem with the factual content of my post. Perhaps you just don't like the vehemence with which I delivered the facts?

Obliq

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/six-under-18s-in-state-care-travelled-abroad-for-abortions-1.1445682

"Six girls under the age of 18 in State care were assisted in travelling abroad for abortions on suicide grounds in the past 20 years, Minister for Children Frances Fitzgerald has confirmed."


"Yesterday Mr Timmins described the response as “worrying” and asked: “If this legislation is about saving women’s lives, why was the treatment not provided in Ireland?”"

He's joking right? Surely that's a rhetorical question, considering all we've been following this last year. Does he even know what's going on?!

lazygal

Billy Timmons is all but accusing the children involved of lying, or of the professionals in Ireland of incompetence. I will so enjoy know it all windbags like him (and Peter Mathews etc) being consigned to the furthest backbenchers after this bill is passed.

I wouldn't take advice from Billy on how to wipe my arse, never mind medical matters like suicide.

Obliq

All it proves is that the State takes decisions for accessing abortion services in the same way we all have to here. This is going to get right up the anti-choicers noses and severely shake em up, hopefully.

Frito

In the article Obliqlinked above, the HSE comments about the issue of consent for minors within the legislation though the precedence involved a minor. Would there be a need to include this specifically in other legislation ie capacity to avoid delays in accessing the service? For example, a minor requests abortion, issue is raised re consent, protection of life bill specifies that woman means female of any age and references X, arguments given that usual rule is minors cannot consent to treatment and others usually parents consent in child's interest, refer matter to high court where parents withhold consent for final ruling.
Is this likely to occur?

Sarky

Bunch of YD posters went up along Pope's Quay down here overnight. Went across the road to the garda station to register a complaint. The nice lady at the desk asked me to cut down a few and hand them in as evidence. I had to go to work, but my flatmate's on his day off and taking considerable pleasure in wiping some of the filth off the street. ^_^

Flier

It's not altogether unusual for cases involving consent for minors to end up in the courts. For instance in cases where a medical treatment is advised, but where the parent/guardian for one reason or another does not agree. There is a fairly well established method of having these cases heard urgently, often out of hours and if necessary, the child can be made a ward of court, and then the court consents on the child's behalf. I don't see why in cases of requests for abortion on the grounds of suicide risk would be treated any differently to the already established mechanisms.

Frito

Yes, I agree, I distracted myself in the post. As this is established practice, does there need to be legislation? I'm trying to imagine what problems the HSE envisage regarding this.

Morag

So a bunch of people on facebook have decided to go and protest outside of Life House today. Not a single pro choice group involved just a bunch of pissed off people who have been enraged by the carry on yesterday and the new round of posters. The facebook event for it has 1,000 attending, the garda have been told it's happening. https://www.facebook.com/events/245726535552285/

I'm not going in myself, I just hope it goes well and passes off peacefully, but YD have really poked the bear and it's nice to see so many people wanting reform to the abortion rights.

Sarky

Just walking back from work, the invisible traffic outside the Cork rape crisis center is mad. I hope no YD folks get caught in it.

Sarky

Nice wee crowd protesting outside YD office right now. It's a wonder they're not getting knocked down by all those invisible cars. :pac:

https://twitter.com/WSMIreland/status/350663646445182978/photo/1