Abortion/ *Note* Thread Closing Shortly! ! !

Obliq

Sorry Kylith. Don't read this link then - I'm just putting the reasonable quotes up here in front of you! Good article by Miriam Lord again though....she's bang on as usual.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/creighton-finally-lays-her-cards-on-the-table-without-showing-them-all-1.1449688?page=2

"His colleague, Regina Doherty, took umbrage at Creighton’s assertion that those who were voting for the Bill were victims of a “groupthink” mentality and spoke of the “endless sleepless nights” she had spent thinking about the issue.

The question of the availability of abortion in Ireland “boils down to location”, she pointed out. “It’s okay, but not on our doorstep.” This was echoed by Minister for Children Frances Fitzgerald. “We may say we have no abortion in Ireland, but in reality, we are just pretending.”

It was, said Minister for Justice Alan Shatter, “A British solution to an Irish problem.”
One of the most striking aspects of the debate was how proponents of the Bill spoke in simple terms while those against bolstered their arguments with liberal references to academic studies drawn from universities all around the world."

aloyisious

I had what might sound like the weirdest thought... fast-forward 10+ years to where the Supreme Court and Irish law might view foetus V pregnant woman, like the way it now views's parents rights to decide medical treatment of their kids based on religious beliefs V doctors wanting to give the kid/s life-saving treatment/transfusions. I'd say that if that thought entered the Anti-camp, et al, heads (maybe it has) they'd weep.

lazygal

One of the ironic things about the debate on a lack of terms limits is that its a direct result of putting the right to life of a foetus and woman into the constitution. Constitutional rights can't be subject to time limits - if the eighth amendment wasn't there, there could be term limits, but once again its been shown up for what it is, an amendment that causes and will continue to cause more problems.

Galvasean

So, unsurprisingly, the bill passed.
http://www.krank.ie/category/society/protection-of-life-during-pregnancy-bill-passes-second-stage/

Only 4 Fine Gael TDs voted against it. Interestingly, not one woman voted against it.

magicbastarder

so poor ould lucinda had to decide between her principles and being a minister. and power won.

ShooterSF

Peadar Tóibín is off my voting list so. Shame Id have to add him as a friend on facebook if I want to post on his wall as I can't bring myself to.

Sulla Felix

When do we find out what the amendments were?

Morag

http://cdn.thejournal.ie/media/2013/07/b6613d-dscn.pdf

B0jangles

magicbastarder wrote: »

so poor ould lucinda had to decide between her principles and being a minister. and power won.

I just won 50p off myself on a bet she'd cave and vote with the government.

So wealthy right now.

Bannasidhe

B0jangles wrote: »

I just won 50p off myself on a bet she'd cave and vote with the government.

So wealthy right now.

Excellent!

You can buy the biscuits so.

B0jangles

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Excellent!

You can buy the biscuits so.

They'll have to be Nice*.


(*confused me so much as a kid, because they weren't nice at all, dammit)

Sarky

I usually warn people off reading the comments section of pretty much anything online, but I stumbled across an interesting one on prolife.ie and the 75 IP addresses they share with interesting websites:

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/08/20/youth-defence-and-legitimate-rape/#comment-259842

jill_valentine

Ye gads...

hinault

I know several atheists who are anti-abortion and are opposed utterly to this legislation.

Corkfeen

hinault wrote: »

I know several atheists who are anti-abortion and are opposed utterly to this legislation.

Congratulations? Although frankly I'd find someone who is opposed to this legislation to be somewhat of an ignorant bastard who have little understanding of what they're objecting to. Care to air their objections? Out of interest, do you just happen to share their opinion?

TheChizler

hinault wrote: »

I know several atheists who are anti-abortion and are opposed utterly to this legislation.

What?! I thought we had them all baptised! Must try harder.

hinault

Corkfeen wrote: »

Congratulations? Although frankly I'd find someone who is opposed to this legislation to be somewhat of an ignorant bastard who have little understanding of what they're objecting to. Care to air their objections? Out of interest, do you just happen to share their opinion?

I couldn't care less what you think.

Mardy Bum

hinault wrote: »

I couldn't care less what you think.

I thought it was your friends? Why do they object?

Corkfeen

hinault wrote: »

I couldn't care less what you think.

I'm only referring to these atheists that you know sure. The Irish public voted to have this legislated for so it has to be legislated for as a result , it protects the life of the mother which for some reason is of little importance to certain people. You didn't answer my question by the way.

hinault

Mardy Bum wrote: »

I thought it was your friends? Why do they object?

See what thought did for you?

Where did I refer to "friends"? In which post?

Sarky

Ah, they're not your friends, but you're getting offended on their behalf? :pac:

Corkfeen

hinault wrote: »

See what thought did for you?

Where did I refer to "friends"? In which post?

Why do you keep dodging the questions that you've been asked ?

Sarky wrote: »

Ah, they're not your friends, but you're getting offended on their behalf? :pac:

He's clearly very protective of these colleagues of his.

Sarky

Thinking Youth Defence are a bunch of worthless cocksuckers means I support human rights violations, according to this American. Also, very disappointed "Save Tiny Humans" isn't a pro-midget organisation. Very disappointed

The Black Oil

Going by their tweets and poster/ad antics, quite why anyone takes YD seriously in this debate is beyond me. They must to be one of the most pathetic organisations in this country. I wish one of our politicians would call them on this directly if only to see inevitable OTT reaction on social media. They seem to have no sense of shame, humility or compassion. Any criticism of their actions or comments means you are pro abortion, BUT WHAT ABOUT US? BIAS! and taken as opportunity to push their name out there. If they cared so much about life then they'd spend some of their mega bucks on something other than posters and billboards. Fundraise for a children's hospital, or something.

This is all just a political game to them. Nothing more. They take up space that might be filled by more moderate anti choice people.

I'm not even angry here - they are foolish. I went to school with people with more cop on and integrity.

jill_valentine

The Black Oil wrote: »

Going by their tweets and poster/ad antics, quite why anyone takes YD seriously in this debate is beyond me. They must to be one of the most pathetic organisations in this country.

If it's any consolation their counterparts aren't exactly clothing themselves in glory at the minute either:



http://gawker.com/heres-a-guy-who-regrets-his-abortion-650829538

Sarky

Let's not jump to conclusions. That could be a very hairy, solidly built woman.

aloyisious

hinault wrote: »

I know several atheists who are anti-abortion and are opposed utterly to this legislation.

Would that be on humanist grounds, or summat?

lazygal

jill_valentine wrote: »

If it's any consolation their counterparts aren't exactly clothing themselves in glory at the minute either:



http://gawker.com/heres-a-guy-who-regrets-his-abortion-650829538

Did the abortion turn him into a man?

Stark

"Without pregnancy hormones, you become more masculine. It's scientific and medical FACT".

Meanwhile, religious groups are opposing Wales's opt-out organ donation system on moral grounds. Because violating people's bodily integrity is wrong apparently.

lazygal

Abortion doesn't save lives, it just turns you into a man.