Abortion/ Note Thread Closing Shortly! ! !

magicbastarder · 03-07-2013 9:40pm

eireannBEAR wrote: »

your comment is fruitless the majority are against on demand abortion. this is fact.

oh, i accept that's a fact. for now.

magicbastarder · 03-07-2013 9:42pm

plus, reading the numbers, the rate at which support for abortion on demand is increasing, we'll be there soon enough.

Sarky · 03-07-2013 9:45pm

eireannBEAR wrote: »

wow....em how many people attended pro-life rallys as to pro-choice.

i think your the one in the dreamland. even enda is promising this wont lead to on demand abortions to appease the masses.

The only people who ever claimed it will lead to abortion on demand are anti-choice. Lose the ridiculous hysterics and you might be taken seriously.

magicbastarder · 03-07-2013 9:48pm

they will be proved right though, in a sense; abortion on demand will eventually reach ireland. and people will point to this law as the start of it.

Sarky · 03-07-2013 9:48pm

Their mistake. They should be pointing to William Binchy and the 8th amendment.

Corkfeen · 03-07-2013 9:51pm

At this point in time, you are correct the majority are opposed to abortion on demand(Give it ten or twenty years and we'll face a different situation). That would also require a referendum and this bill would not cover it. However the suicide clause, the vast majority are in favour of. Bringing a couple of thousand on a paid bus to protest doesn't mean the majority are opposed to the suicide clause.

All polls except one indicate that the majority are in favour. That particular poll was taken by a pro-life group which can't be considered reliable as a result. We can comfortably concluded that there hasn't been a significant shift in opposition since the previous two referendums that were taken. One of which was taken in a deeply conservative Ireland that doesn't resemble modern Ireland remotely.

eireannBEAR · 03-07-2013 10:05pm

Corkfeen wrote: »

At this point in time, you are correct the majority are opposed to abortion on demand(Give it ten or twenty years and we'll face a different situation). That would also require a referendum and this bill would not cover it. However the suicide clause, the vast majority are in favour of. Bringing a couple of thousand on a paid bus to protest doesn't mean the majority are opposed to the suicide clause.

All polls except one indicate that the majority are in favour. That particular poll was taken by a pro-life group which can't be considered reliable as a result. We can comfortably concluded that there hasn't been a significant shift in opposition since the previous two referendums that were taken. One of which was taken in a deeply conservative Ireland that doesn't resemble modern Ireland remotely.

in 10 or 20 years abortion maybe restricted all over the world. opinions around europe and the us are growing against abortion.

most people dont understand that abortions in suicidal women cause more harm than good. the tide is turning. the suicide rate for women who have had abortions are 30% higher than women who have not had one. it does more harm than good.

eireannBEAR · 03-07-2013 10:06pm

Sarky wrote: »

The only people who ever claimed it will lead to abortion on demand are anti-choice. Lose the ridiculous hysterics and you might be taken seriously.

wow your really are in denial friend. this is utter nonsense dont tell me you oppose abortion on demand??

Jamesw2 · 03-07-2013 10:07pm

Anyone think it peculiar that then new master of Holles Street eh hem Horror St is for the bill!!! Find the thought v disturbing.
Later same week she was offered a spanking brand new hospital at Vincents.
Siding with Reilly on this one?
Strange.

Question: Who will benefit from this. Marie Stopes!

Turtwig · 03-07-2013 10:12pm

What's strange is how 78% support abortion in cases where the womans health, not life, is at risk. That's effectively pro-choice imo. Even if people might not wish to use the label because of all the connotations here to it and abortion on demand. Seriously, who actually wants "abortion on demand". The phrase itself is disrespectful to women. Abortion on request, maybe?
Source.

shruikan2553 · 03-07-2013 10:12pm

eireannBEAR wrote: »

wow....em how many people attended pro-life rallys as to pro-choice.

i think your the one in the dreamland. even enda is promising this wont lead to on demand abortions to appease the masses.

Pro-life groups get a lot of funding and bus the pensioners and stay at home mothers from all over the country to their meet ups. The pro choice side are getting what they want so dont have anything to rally about, "what do we want? abortions! when do we want them? whenever this legislation goes through"

He also promised not to increased college fees along with other things. Welcome to Irish politics.

eireannBEAR wrote: »

wow your really are in denial friend. this is utter nonsense dont tell me you oppose abortion on demand??

Its pretty much true, the like of youth defense keep talking about "on demand until birth" not the pro choice people.

lazygal · 03-07-2013 10:13pm

Jamesw2 wrote: »

Anyone think it peculiar that then new master of Holles Street eh hem Horror St is for the bill!!! Find the thought v disturbing.
Later same week she was offered a spanking brand new hospital at Vincents.
Siding with Reilly on this one?
Strange.

Question: Who will benefit from this. Marie Stopes!

This is comedy gold!
Funnily enough my pregnancy was terminated in Holles St at 39 weeks, one of the happiest days of my life.

Corkfeen · 03-07-2013 10:14pm

eireannBEAR wrote: »

in 10 or 20 years abortion maybe restricted all over the world. opinions around europe and the us are growing against abortion.

most people dont understand that abortions in suicidal women cause more harm than good. the tide is turning. the suicide rate for women who have had abortions are 30% higher than women who have not had one. it does more harm than good.

Could you reference your source for both of the statements you've just made?

I found a Gallup poll that effectively states that there has been little change in terms of people's political stance on Abortion in America. It just goes up or down slightly each year so remains pretty much stagnant. No indication that there'll be significant changes in abortion law in the US. Look at the amount of fire Texas fell under last week in their effort to make it more restrictive, the people don't support it.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx

Also, I've gotta agree with Jernal on 'abortion on demand' phrase. Like claiming it's regularly used as a contraceptive. It ignores the fact that it's still not easy for a woman to go through with an abortion.

Jamesw2 · 03-07-2013 10:19pm

Seriously. Who is benefiting from this? In the word of Drumm who is getting the "moolah".

Lingua Franca · 03-07-2013 10:19pm

eireannBEAR wrote: »

excuse me 36%...and you say im grasping at straws the irony.

Yeah, you posted a google search leading to a forum post quoting a newspaper poll and you still managed to get it wrong. I can safely say you're casting around desperately for absolutely anything you can find to back yourself up.

Also!

eireannBEAR wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAbortion_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland&ei=pIrUUaGhEbCO7Abh7YCQAQ&usg=AFQjCNEX6IH-5LaFUPqhbu9A7G3rbRIz5g&sig2=tuKin6pwRvOZ-WgKodhdPg

heres an entire list of polls. your comment is fruitless the majority are against on demand abortion. this is fact.

eireannBEAR wrote: »

wikipedia huh lol

So wikipedia is a joke when other people cite it but it's fine for you?

Jamesw2 · 03-07-2013 10:23pm

Go eireannBEAR. I'll vote for you come the next election. FGFGFG OUT OUT OUT

mikom · 03-07-2013 10:23pm

Jamesw2 wrote: »

Seriously. Who is benefiting from this?

Mothers.

eireannBEAR · 03-07-2013 10:23pm

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=15&cad=rja&ved=0CE4QFjAEOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbjp.rcpsych.org%2Fcontent%2F193%2F6%2F444.full&ei=xQ_SUd7SIOaf7AbO3IHADA&usg=AFQjCNFyLaBqzjHNk3_UwiH1YRfREAiU0g&sig2=s-90E3crKFYQvt6WaCt0MA

a study carried out by the pro-choice dr ferguson. he wasnt expecting these results. abortions for suicidal woman cause more risks than women proceeding to birth.

increased mental health issues,increased suicide rates. if they had of waited a few months these women would be alive today.

you uninformed people are inadvertently harming women.

Jamesw2 · 03-07-2013 10:26pm

Ah now don't believe any mom would want abortion. Whose getting the moolah on this one. Thats what this is all about. Dont cod yerselves.

Corkfeen · 03-07-2013 10:28pm

eireannBEAR wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=15&cad=rja&ved=0CE4QFjAEOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbjp.rcpsych.org%2Fcontent%2F193%2F6%2F444.full&ei=xQ_SUd7SIOaf7AbO3IHADA&usg=AFQjCNFyLaBqzjHNk3_UwiH1YRfREAiU0g&sig2=s-90E3crKFYQvt6WaCt0MA

a study carried out by the pro-choice dr ferguson. he wasnt expecting these results. abortions for suicidal woman cause more risks than women proceeding to birth.

increased mental health issues,increased suicide rates. if they had of waited a few months these women would be alive today.

Coincidentally I sent an email to David Fergusson so will lob up the response which I got from him. You're taking leaps that don't match up with the study. His response is more reliable than my own could be, given the fact I don't share his background. Nothing that can't be gleamed from the study which does not conclude increased Suicidality!

Dear
,
Thank you for your email . To clarify the issue what our article says is that :
a) We can find no evidence abortion has positive benefits;

b) There is suggestive evidence of small harmful effects but it would be premature to draw strong conclusions,

c) Further and better research is needed before strong conclusions can be drawn about the linkages between mental health and abortion.

The problem with these findings is that they can be misused by both prolife and prochoice advocates. Prolife advocates can argue on the basis of b) that abortion is harmful . Prochoice advocates can argue on the basis of b) and c) that currently there is no credible evidence to suggest abortion has no harmful effects. The latter argument is correct but could be misleading as it implies there is strong evidence of the absence of harmful effects. However an absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence and under these conditions it behoves commenters to be cautious.
I cannot recall my remarks on Irish radio but I suspect there were along the lines that it would be misleading to interpret our findings as suggesting harmful effects for abortion.
I hope that this clarifies matters
David Fergusson

shruikan2553 · 03-07-2013 10:29pm

eireannBEAR wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=15&cad=rja&ved=0CE4QFjAEOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbjp.rcpsych.org%2Fcontent%2F193%2F6%2F444.full&ei=xQ_SUd7SIOaf7AbO3IHADA&usg=AFQjCNFyLaBqzjHNk3_UwiH1YRfREAiU0g&sig2=s-90E3crKFYQvt6WaCt0MA

a study carried out by the pro-choice dr ferguson. he wasnt expecting these results. abortions for suicidal woman cause more risks than women proceeding to birth.

increased mental health issues,increased suicide rates. if they had of waited a few months these women would be alive today.

you uninformed people are inadvertently harming women.

But its fine for a woman to have her rapists child?

Turtwig · 03-07-2013 10:30pm

eireannBEAR wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=15&cad=rja&ved=0CE4QFjAEOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbjp.rcpsych.org%2Fcontent%2F193%2F6%2F444.full&ei=xQ_SUd7SIOaf7AbO3IHADA&usg=AFQjCNFyLaBqzjHNk3_UwiH1YRfREAiU0g&sig2=s-90E3crKFYQvt6WaCt0MA

a study carried out by the pro-choice dr ferguson. he wasnt expecting these results. abortions for suicidal woman cause more risks than women proceeding to birth.

increased mental health issues,increased suicide rates. if they had of waited a few months these women would be alive today.

you uninformed people are inadvertently harming women.

*sigh.*
From you own link.

Specifically, the results do not support strong pro-life positions that claim that abortion has large and devastating effects on the mental health of women.46 Neither do the results support strong pro-choice positions that imply that abortion is without any mental health effects.

eireannBEAR · 03-07-2013 10:31pm

Corkfeen wrote: »

Coincidentally I sent an email to David Fergusson so will lob up the response which I got from him. You're taking leaps that don't match up with the study.

section ''A'' my friend. it defeats your whole argument.

Delirium · 03-07-2013 10:32pm

eireannBEAR wrote: »

section ''A'' my friend. it defeats your whole argument.

only if you ignore the rest of the email Corkfeen posted.

magicbastarder · 03-07-2013 10:33pm

maybe these two are pro-life turing tests.

Corkfeen · 03-07-2013 10:34pm

eireannBEAR wrote: »

section ''A'' my friend. it defeats your whole argument.

Not really, I don't think we should force a woman to go through with her pregnancy if she doesn't want it. If she is suicidal, there may be no indication that it's beneficial but the pregnancy could easily act as an added strain upon a woman. You still haven't backed up you're previous claims that I asked for evidence of.

koth wrote: »

only if you ignore the rest of the email Corkfeen posted.

Was sick of IONA so thought I'd go direct to the source... :P

eireannBEAR · 03-07-2013 10:35pm

eireannBEAR wrote: »

a study carried out by the pro-choice dr ferguson. he wasnt expecting these results. abortions for suicidal woman cause more risks than women proceeding to birth.

increased mental health issues,increased suicide rates. if they had of waited a few months these women would be alive today.

you uninformed people are inadvertently harming women.

he was devastated by these results he tried to stop this paper being published.

Jamesw2 · 03-07-2013 10:36pm

The suicide issue in this bill is simply an angle.

How many women have presented themselves for abortion on the basis of suicide?

Can' think there is too many and yet this issue has got more coverage and legal argument to bring about abortion in Ireland.

Id like to see them discussing mental health issues and suicide amongst the male population in as much detail as this "angle" has got.
Again,

FGFGFG OUT OUT OUT

Corkfeen · 03-07-2013 10:37pm

eireannBEAR wrote: »

he was devastated by these results he tried to stop this paper being published.

Once again, I'd like to see proof of this claim.... You're making many but not proving any of them..... I'm not responding to any more of your posts unless you start providing proof!

eireannBEAR · 03-07-2013 10:38pm

Corkfeen wrote: »

Not really, I don't think we should force a woman to go through with her pregnancy if she doesn't want it. If she is suicidal, there may be no indication that it's beneficial but the pregnancy could easily act as an added strain upon a woman.

incorrect its proven to benefit the women. abortions cause more harm than good.

adoption would of saved countless womens lives.

Abortion/ *Note* Thread Closing Shortly! ! !

Comments

Abortion/ Note Thread Closing Shortly! ! !