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Abortion/ *Note* Thread Closing Shortly! ! !

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    #9542
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,700 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Sh*t going down on Youth Defence's website. Been hacked with someone talking about their funding, US Supporters etc


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    #9543
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Penn wrote: »
    Sh*t going down on Youth Defence's website. Been hacked with someone talking about their funding, US Supporters etc

    lol too funny :D


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    #9544
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    Damn, that's a pretty good read.


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    #9545
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,700 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Sadly, it's mostly info that people who oppose YD already know, and people who support YD will willfully ignore. The only hope is that it pushes YD to reveal their funding, stop illegal advertising etc


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    #9546
    SebBerkovich
    Registered Users Posts: 1,624 ✭✭✭SebBerkovich


    In case it "goes away" you can read it on broadsheet

    http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/07/09/anything-good-on-youthdefence-ie/


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    #9547
    loveisdivine
    Registered Users Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭loveisdivine


    The complete list of their newsletter subscribers should go down well :D


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    #9548
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    im not being smart but im sick of posting the same links, i posted a picture of a dead babies corpse
    And I've just deleted the link to that image. Post any more crap like that again here and it will be your last post in this thread.

    This is not open for discussion.


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    #9549
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,991 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    SebBerkovich wrote: »
    In case it "goes away" you can read it on broadsheet

    http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/07/09/anything-good-on-youthdefence-ie/

    It's gone now. I saved a copy though.


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    #9550
    SebBerkovich
    Registered Users Posts: 1,624 ✭✭✭SebBerkovich


    Stark wrote: »
    It's gone now. I saved a copy though.

    Nice Work :)


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    #9551
    returnNull
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭returnNull


    B0jangles wrote: »
    Damn, that's a pretty good read.

    its the longest I've ever spent on it anyways :)


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    #9552
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    but most of us support abortion for every other humane reason but ''life choices'' its just to big a crime for me to swallow that reasoning.

    all the young women and old women i know do not support the suicide clause its just a one way ticket to abortion on demand.

    its completely a moral issue for me,i was raised not to step on a bug let alone a baby.

    What is "abortion on demand"? Do you have to pay a subscription?

    As for life choices, there's no crime in that? My friend couldn't have the baby because she and her partner were moving about a lot in search of work and they wouldn't have had time for kids. Maybe sometime in the future they might adopt, who knows?


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    #9553
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    old hippy wrote: »
    What is "abortion on demand"? Do you have to pay a subscription?

    As for life choices, there's no crime in that? My friend couldn't have the baby because she and her partner were moving about a lot in search of work and they wouldn't have had time for kids. Maybe sometime in the future they might adopt, who knows?

    "couldn't???


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    #9554
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    No need to nitpick BB, it's quite clear what was meant.


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    #9555
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    I dont think you need to do a caesarian to stick a needle through the woman's abdomen into the foetus.


    The younger the lamb foetus was the more of it was taken in that 1 cm, the older it was, the more anaesthetic it was given to numb it. Even to a full grown foetus, 1cm of tissue is a lot of material. Your own link refutes your claim that the foetus cannot be anaesthetised without harming the mother.


    Its amazing how they can put a 100 kg person to sleep and cut them open anywhere, swap their heart if they need to, without them feeling it, yet they can't give enough anaesthetic to a pregnant women to numb a 300g parasite in her belly (assuming it does have to be given via the mother).

    EDIT: Here is a scientific paper (from the US National Library of Medicine), where foetal anaesthetics is discussed. They give it through the mother:

    "Parasite"???

    While illuminating this kind of "extremist language" is banned on this forum.

    I hope you are right and lets assume that you are - would you support a a law that required all abortions of foetuses that might feel pain to be done so under foetal anaesthetic, so everything 18 weeks +?


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    #9556
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    No need to nitpick BB, it's quite clear what was meant.

    It is to me. They killed off what would have been their child because they wouldn't have time for it.

    Plenty of single mothers who love thieir children working 2 minimum wage jobs would disagree.


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    #9557
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,776 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    "Parasite"???

    While illuminating this kind of "extremist language" is banned on this forum.

    That's not extremist language, it is accurate. Biologically speaking, a foetus is a parasite.
    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    I hope you are right and lets assume that you are - would you support a a law that required all abortions of foetuses that might feel pain to be done so under foetal anaesthetic, so everything 18 weeks +?

    I don't know if 18 weeks is accurate, but yes I would support foetal anaesthetic for any abortion (any treatment really) where the foetus could feel pain.


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    #9558
    eireannBEAR
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭eireannBEAR


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    That's not extremist language, it is accurate. Biologically speaking, a foetus is a parasite.


    I don't know if 18 weeks is accurate, but yes I would support foetal anaesthetic for any abortion (any treatment really) where the foetus could feel pain.

    can you post a medical link of a single healthy foetus being referred to as parasitic??

    i think you are being brainwashed by pro-choices loopy propaganda.


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    #9559
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    It is to me. They killed off what would have been their child because they wouldn't have time for it.

    Plenty of single mothers who love thieir children working 2 minimum wage jobs would disagree.

    And is what they did really worse than having a child you don't have time for? So what if there are 500 billion single mothers who work 5 jobs apiece to raise children? That was those women's choice to make. This couple took stock of their lives and decided that they would prefer to wait until they're in a place where they can offer a child the best, most stable home possible.


    Reading over what I missed last night I saw, BB, that you said you'd never seen a parent who hated their children. I have. Often. If they don't hate them then they do an Oscar-winning performance of it. Sure, they'd probably tell you they love their kids, but to see them yelling at the kids in the street, f'ing and blinding, calling them every name under the sun, telling them to 'get out of my f'ing sight, I'm f'ing sick of you', seeing four and five year olds wandering the street with gangs of older kids, kids not much more than toddlers setting fires... It's heartbreaking to see it and every time I do I wonder if that child would really have been worse off if it had never been born, rather than to be born into a life of verbal abuse and emotional and psychological neglect. What kind of chance do those children have of becoming anything other than the little pricks that their own parents have been telling them they are since infancy?


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    #9560
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Asking for a straight answer to a question asked yet refuses to answer questions that he has been asked. Oh the irony.

    Can't work out if you are being serious here. I've only asked you a single question and you went to comical lengths to avoid answering.

    I've made every effort to answer every question within reason. There have been many questions though.

    I didn't answer your's < the hypothetical one about the Irish homeless pregnant woman > because I had more or less already answered it with a real example from my own life.
    My wife was born to a homeless drug addict in Chile and was left to an orphanage. She was adopted into a Swedish family who are multi-millionaires and extremely kind and loving parents. She has had a wonderful life full of every opportunity you could imagine.

    Alternatively she could have had her brain sucked from her head so her skull would cave in before she had a chance at life.

    We've visited her home town and the poverty there is on a scale unimaginable relative to your Irish example, I would expect it was considerably worse for the poor under Pinochet when my wife was born. Her mother had the option of abortion but instead she had a beautiful child instead. The mother is now clean, got herself together and living with her new family

    I don't think you can argue at this being the better outcome?


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    #9561
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    can you post a medical link of a single healthy foetus being referred to as parasitic??

    i think you are being brainwashed by pro-choices loopy propaganda.

    While I wouldn't use the term parasite myself, it is the word for a creature which depends entirely on taking nutrients from a host to sustain itself. This is what a foetus does; it leeches nutrients from it's host (mother) to sustain itself and grow. In purely detached terms there is little difference between a foetus and a tapeworm.


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    #9562
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    It is to me. They killed off what would have been their child because they wouldn't have time for it.

    Plenty of single mothers who love thieir children working 2 minimum wage jobs would disagree.

    For someone who calls himself pro-choice, you ain't half judgmental about it.

    I'm sure there are single mothers in this very thread who agree. Let's not forget that we the people, the MAJORITY, agree, including single mothers working 2 minimum wage jobs.


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    #9563
    eireannBEAR
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭eireannBEAR


    kylith wrote: »
    While I wouldn't use the term parasite myself, it is the word for a creature which depends entirely on taking nutrients from a host to sustain itself. This is what a foetus does; it leeches nutrients from it's host (mother) to sustain itself and grow. In purely detached terms there is little difference between a foetus and a tapeworm.

    i didnt ask for a definition. but a foetus was produced by its mothers cells a tape worm is a foreign body you are incorrect.


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    #9564
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    i didnt ask for a definition. but a foetus was produce by its mothers cells a tape worm is a foreign body you are incorrect.

    That matters not. A parasite is what a thing is, not where it comes from. If it derives its nutrients from its host's system then it is a parasite because it is parasitising another organism.


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    #9565
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    kylith wrote: »
    And is what they did really worse than having a child you don't have time for?
    Or in other words is killing off what was to become your child worse than occasional and mild parental neglect. Yes. IMO. Absolutely.


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    #9566
    loveisdivine
    Registered Users Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭loveisdivine


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Can't work out if you are being serious here. I've only asked you a single question and you went to comical lengths to avoid answering.

    I've made every effort to answer every question within reason. There have been many questions though.

    I didn't answer your's < the hypothetical one about the Irish homeless pregnant woman > because I had more or less already answered it with a real example from my own life.



    We've visited her home town and the poverty there is on a scale unimaginable relative to your Irish example, I would expect it was considerably worse for the poor under Pinochet when my wife was born. Her mother had the option of abortion but instead she had a beautiful child instead. The mother is now clean, got herself together and living with her new family

    I don't think you can argue at this being the better outcome?

    She didn't have an abortion because she obviously didn't want one. She had the choice and she made the right choice for herself. Why not let others make that choice too?


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    #9567
    Corkfeen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    It is to me. They killed off what would have been their child because they wouldn't have time for it.

    Plenty of single mothers who love thieir children working 2 minimum wage jobs would disagree.

    Oh come on... What give you the right to make all these judgements? Your wife's friend and now somebody you have absolutely no knowledge of. If a person feels that they can't provide a suitable life to a child that they'd personally aim for. Why should it be anyone else's decision?

    It is ultimately a woman's body and sometimes personal circumstance may force people to wait till a later date to have a child. However treating their reasons with such contempt is highly unfair.......


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    #9568
    loveisdivine
    Registered Users Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭loveisdivine


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Or in other words is killing off what was to become your child worse than occasional and mild parental neglect. Yes. IMO. Absolutely.

    Wow. Confirmation that it really is Pro-Birth not Pro-Life.


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    #9569
    eireannBEAR
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭eireannBEAR


    loveisdivine wrote: »
    Wow. Confirmation that it really is Pro-Birth not Pro-Life.

    yup pro-birth the standard of life in this country is well above the norm,either way the child will have a high quality of life. by accepted world standards.


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    #9570
    Brian Shanahan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Yes. Adoption.

    You're seriously advocating a course of action which in the US (from which you get all your "examples") isn't able to cover 1/10 of the abandoned babies in the country, never mind the number of pregnancies terminated?

    I honestly can't fathom some people.


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    #9571
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    For someone who calls himself pro-choice, you ain't half judgmental about it.

    I'm sure there are single mothers in this very thread who agree. Let's not forget that we the people, the MAJORITY, agree, including single mothers working 2 minimum wage jobs.

    Because something is legal/lawful it doesn't mean that it is moral - such as legal human slavery.


This discussion has been closed.
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