Abortion/ *Note* Thread Closing Shortly! ! !

christmas2012

christmas2012 wrote: »

[...] The fact that there is no aftercare,you are on a plane back home and if the gp is off hours you have to wait until the morning and join the queue,my friend who got an infection had to wait another couple of days for the antibiotics as the chemists in ireland didnt even have them stocked..

And that's an argument for the legalisation of abortion in Ireland. I couldn't have put it better myself.

28064212

christmas2012 wrote: »

fatmammycat im not SPEAKING for others,im speaking from a place as a witness to the event.. 1. what is so positive about going through a horribly invasive procedure 2. having to wait 3 hours yes 3 hours to get into that abortion room 4. to only get one paracetemol tablet to manage pain in the aftermath of abortion...Tell me again what is so positive about this???????

1. appendectomy - invasive, yet positive
2. appendectomy - you may have to wait, yet positive
4.[sic] As you have been told over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and....
that is not standard procedure. Most clinics have perfectly adequate pain relief facilities. What your friend experienced was the exception, not the norm.

christmas2012

And that's an argument for the legalisation of abortion in Ireland. I couldn't have put it better myself.

abortion for all in the uk is what has irish girls in this pickle,abortion for all will not cure our ageing population issues,nor it will solve the root problem in a girls life casual,unprotected sex.

seamus

christmas2012 wrote: »

to only get one paracetemol tablet to manage pain in the aftermath of abortion...

Yeah, you see I just plain don't believe you.
A single paracetemol wouldn't even manage the pain of stubbing your toe. You've been either very misguided by yourself or your friend about what they received, or you're just making stuff up.

abortion for all in the uk is what has irish girls in this pickle,abortion for all will not cure our ageing population issues,nor it will solve the root problem in a girls life casual,unprotected sex.

We don't have an aging population problem. Availability of abortion is unrelated to the issue of unprotected sex.
Availability of abortion in the UK has no doubt saved thousands of lives over the years as women have not had to resort to back-street methods of obtaining abortions, and have not committed suicide to avoid going through with a pregnancy.

doctoremma

christmas2012 wrote: »

abortion for all in the uk

It really makes me wonder how my friends are managing to evade this dictat in order to spawn large numbers of cute children.

Bannasidhe

christmas2012 wrote: »

abortion for all in the uk is what has irish girls in this pickle,abortion for all will not cure our ageing population issues,nor it will solve the root problem in a girls life casual,unprotected sex.

Don't be absurd. Women have been terminating pregnancies for centuries before the UK legalised it in 1967. Next you will claim there no casual sex in Ireland before the Late Late Show.

Our aging population has nothing to do with it.

Young women will have sex, quite often this will be with young men. They always have and they always will. That really is a FACT.

What we need is sex education so they know how to take the correct precautions and measures to ensure that should those precautions fail (as they sometimes do) that women have a choice about what happens next.

28064212

christmas2012 wrote: »

abortion for all in the uk is what has irish girls in this pickle,abortion for all will not cure our ageing population issues

Ireland has the highest birth-rate in the EU.

christmas2012 wrote: »

nor it will solve the root problem in a girls life casual,unprotected sex.

So we should stop treating chlamydia, gonorrhea, AIDS, herpes.....?

Also, if all those 'irresponsible girls' stop having unprotected sex, what will that do for our ageing population?

christmas2012

Also, if all those 'irresponsible girls' stop having unprotected sex, what will that do for our ageing population?

Wont do much if they keep getting abortions afterwards.. :pac:
We do have an ageing population - ignoring this is sticking your head in the sand.

Look it up ireland and ageing population,google it,or find it out by doing some more research into it.

Improbable

christmas2012 wrote: »

Wont do much if they keep getting abortions afterwards.. :pac:
We do have an ageing population - ignoring this is sticking your head in the sand.

Look it up ireland and ageing population,google it,or find it out by doing some more research into it.

I guess we should outlaw emigration then. Regardless, it has nothing to do with this discussion.

Not to mention the fact that the amount of pre-school aged children rose 18%. So whatever the case may be with regards to the increased average age of the Irish population, evidently abortion doesn't have anything to do with it at all.

seamus

christmas2012 wrote: »

We do have an ageing population - ignoring this is sticking your head in the sand.

You said we have an aging population issue. We don't. We have an aging population, but it's not an issue at this stage because our birth rate is still high.

Besides, anyone who thinks that the way to reverse an aging population problem is to force women to carried unwanted pregnancies to term, is so removed from rationality that there's no point in even discussing this with you.

Bannasidhe

christmas2012 wrote: »

Wont do much if they keep getting abortions afterwards.. :pac:
We do have an ageing population - ignoring this is sticking your head in the sand.

Look it up ireland and ageing population,google it,or find it out by doing some more research into it.

So you think Irish women should be denied abortions simply so they can produce children who can grow up to take care of our old people?

There are words for that - broodmare is one.

28064212

christmas2012 wrote: »

Wont do much if they keep getting abortions afterwards.. :pac:
We do have an ageing population - ignoring this is sticking your head in the sand.

Look it up ireland and ageing population,google it,or find it out by doing some more research into it.

Yes, our population is ageing. The population in, for example, Germany is already at a much further forward stage of an ageing population, while having a lower birth-rate, and it's doing just fine

Now are you going to actually answer questions?

• Should we stop treating for STIs?
• If you're so intent on lowering the age of our population, why are you advocating for fewer people to have unprotected sex?

christmas2012

So you think Irish women should be denied abortions simply so they can produce children who can grow up to take care of our old people?

No,but i think from a politicians perspective i can see why they are so hesitant to introduce abortion in ireland. 1. the health service is in a mess 2. it will impact negatively on an already ageing population 3. an ageing population that is child poor will have negative impacts for all of us the standard of price of living will increase as a result.

kylith

christmas2012 wrote: »

Wont do much if they keep getting abortions afterwards.. :pac:
We do have an ageing population - ignoring this is sticking your head in the sand.

Look it up ireland and ageing population,google it,or find it out by doing some more research into it.

You'll have to excuse me because I've been away for a few days so haven't really been able to follow the thread. Are you actually saying that it should be mandatory for women to have children because the population is ageing? Would it then be the case that women who choose not to have children should be made to, or penalised in some way for not having babies, so that they contribute to keeping the population up?

doctoremma

christmas2012 wrote: »

No,but i think from a politicians perspective i can see why they are so hesitant to introduce abortion in ireland. 1. the health service is in a mess 2. it will impact negatively on an already ageing population 3. an ageing population that is child poor will have negative impacts for all of us the standard of price of living will increase as a result.

I'd just like to say to that I find these arguments being brought into a discussion about abortion to be utterly disgusting. There are pro-lifers who are capable of having serious debate (looking at you Sin City ) and for someone to genuinely seek to tarnish the debate in this way is contemptible.

christmas2012

Should we stop treating for STIs?
If you're so intent on lowering the age of our population, why are you advocating for fewer people to have unprotected sex?

No we should not stop treating STIS,as for confusing abortion as a treatment i think that is very dangerous,and can give a lot of women the wrong idea about abortion,its not as simple as a treatment - its a very invasive and painful procedure with risks of infection and later miscarraige if infection is not caught in time.

Im not advocating anything,you are misinterpreting what i am saying,either intentionally or not..

I think if you are to prevent yourself from finding yourself in the situation of travelling to england putting yourself at risk to have an abortion,then yes i think there should be sex with condoms and the pill..

christmas2012

I'd just like to say to that I find these arguments being brought into a discussion about abortion to be utterly disgusting.

'doc' emma i find your attitude towards abortion(abortion for all) utterly disgusting,i guess we can agree to disagee then..

doctoremma

christmas2012 wrote: »

'doc' emma i find your attitude towards abortion(abortion for all) utterly disgusting,i guess we can agree to disagee then..

1. That's not my attitude. I shall be joining the bench with Bannasidhe in asking you to desist from misrepresenting me.
2. I'll wager you have no idea what my personal attitude towards abortion is. Furthermore, I bet you can't even summarise a single specific point I've made here.

Bannasidhe

christmas2012 wrote: »

No,but i think from a politicians perspective i can see why they are so hesitant to introduce abortion in ireland. 1. the health service is in a mess 2. it will impact negatively on an already ageing population 3. an ageing population that is child poor will have negative impacts for all of us the standard of price of living will increase as a result.

If you think concern for who will mind our old people is the reason politicians are dragging there heels on this you are very much mistaken. If care of the elderly was a true concern why are they cutting home help hours? Why do we have so many reports of sub-standard care in homes for the elderly that are meant to be inspected?

Yes - the health service is a mess....as a matter of interest where do you think babies are born?

We are not child poor.

christmas2012

I'll wager you have no idea what my personal attitude towards abortion is.

Then spill it doc emma ,what is your personal attitude towards abortion,i have been HONEST and OPEN about mine,no hidden agenda,no ulterior motives ,only to tell the truth of my experience of abortion and bc it doesnt sit well with you,there have been attempts to undermine and nit pick every word i have said,some even deny i have had those experiences and call me a liar,(are you going to call me a liar next,you know i wouldnt be suprised given the general attitude in here)and,some posters i notice have to go all out to undermine me.It still doesnt detract from what i have said.

Zombrex

Sin City wrote: »

Yes, anything can happen naturally to a pp
They key word is natural


Any attempt at artificaly terminating a pregnacy would rob a pp at that chance of life

But your argument is based on the idea that this zygote will have the potential to become a person but the sperm you masturbate away doesn't. But that is biologically false. Most zygotes do not have the potential to become a person, most are destroyed by the woman's body.

So what is the difference between a zygote with no potential to become a person and a sperm with no potential to become a person. Why do you value one over the other? Or don't value one instead of the other?

Again the reality is we don't know what potential any of these things have until they actually become a person. You might destroy the sperm that would have produced your son, or you might grant protection and rights to a zygote that the woman's body rejects without even thinking about it.

Even if we did value potential life we have no way of assessing what does or doesn't actually have potential.

doctoremma

christmas2012 wrote: »

Then spill it what is your personal attitude towards abortion

Why is that relevant? Given that you don't listen, for one minute, to people's actual experiences, I have very little confidence that my opinion matters to you.

christmas2012 wrote: »

only to tell the truth of my experience of abortion and bc it doesnt sit well with you,some posters i notice have to go all out to undermine me.It still doesnt detract from what i have said.

You have no experience of abortion. You have a friend who has experience of abortion, one who appears to have had a torrid but thankfully unusual time of it.

Fortunately for this thread, we are not simply trading personal experiences.

christmas2012

one who appears to have had a torrid but thankfully unusual time of it.

UNUSUAL..???You should read more womens stories of abortion then,its an invasive procedure with pain involved and not just emotional pain either,women who tend to say it was a positive experience obviously never experienced abortion.



....And whats wrong with sharing personal experience,it gives a three dimensional realness to it ,that you simply cannot get in a two dimensional argument.

The Mad Hatter

Data is what gives three dimensions to the argument. What you have is anecdotes.

Zombrex

christmas2012 wrote: »

No we should not stop treating STIS,as for confusing abortion as a treatment i think that is very dangerous,and can give a lot of women the wrong idea about abortion,its not as simple as a treatment - its a very invasive and painful procedure with risks of infection and later miscarraige if infection is not caught in time.

But how will all these slutty women learn about the responsibility of having sex unless we let them all get brain damage from syphilis? :rolleyes:

I mean you want women to learn a lesson right? Sex should not be consequence free, apparently.

28064212

christmas2012 wrote: »

No we should not stop treating STIS

Why not? It doesn't treat the root cause: "girls having casual, unprotected sex"

christmas2012 wrote: »

Im not advocating anything,you are misinterpreting what i am saying,either intentionally or not..

You're calling for the root cause of abortions ("girls having casual, unprotected sex") to be tackled. That is also the same way that we lower the age of our population, so which are you calling for?

christmas2012 wrote: »

as for confusing abortion as a treatment i think that is very dangerous,and can give a lot of women the wrong idea about abortion,its not as simple as a treatment - its a very invasive and painful procedure with risks of infection and later miscarraige if infection is not caught in time.

Invasive: an appendectomy is invasive. Invasive is not the dirty word you make it out to be

Painful: in exceptional cases, it can be painful. You've been peddling the lie that all abortions are painful for dozens of posts, despite being called out on it every time

Risks of infection and future miscarriage: Again, a lie. Once you are pregnant, you are at risk of infection and future miscarriages. Whether the pregnancy ends in a birth or an abortion has no affect on the risk.

And yes, I am saying that you're lying with these statements. You have been shown that the statements you have been making are false, and you continue to make them. You are well past the point where you can claim you have been misinformed, or that you mis-spoke. You are actively lying

Daftendirekt

christmas2012 wrote: »

UNUSUAL..???You should read more womens stories of abortion then,its an invasive procedure with pain involved and not just emotional pain either,women who tend to say it was a positive experience obviously never experienced abortion.



....And whats wrong with sharing personal experience,it gives a three dimensional realness to it ,that you simply cannot get in a two dimensional argument.

But you've just dismissed a bunch of women's abortion stories because they contradict your preconceptions.

And, "abortions for all" is a Simpsons quote, not a UK healthcare policy.

Improbable

christmas2012 wrote: »

UNUSUAL..???You should read more womens stories of abortion then,its an invasive procedure with pain involved and not just emotional pain either,women who tend to say it was a positive experience obviously never experienced abortion.



....And whats wrong with sharing personal experience,it gives a three dimensional realness to it ,that you simply cannot get in a two dimensional argument.

I'm sorry, but you're just wrong. I too have a friend who has had an abortion and she had none of the issues you describe. But of course, my anecdotal evidence is worthless except to counter your anecdotal evidence.

Anecdotal evidence is not good evidence in the slightest which is what I'm getting at. How about you support what you say with statistics or actual proper facts instead of personal experience.

Bannasidhe

christmas2012 wrote: »

UNUSUAL..???You should read more womens stories of abortion then,its an invasive procedure with pain involved and not just emotional pain either,women who tend to say it was a positive experience obviously never experienced abortion.



....And whats wrong with sharing personal experience,it gives a three dimensional realness to it ,that you simply cannot get in a two dimensional argument.

Well, you are not sharing your personal experience are you? You are sharing your friend's personal experience to which you were a bystander (in a different room when the procedure was performed I may add).

Other women have shared their personal experiences and time and time again you have ignored them.


(why do I feel like I've written that post before? It's like groundhog posting in here at the moment.)

christmas2012

But how will all these slutty women learn about the responsibility of having sex unless we let them all get brain damage from syphilis?

where did i say they are slutty?