Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Abortion/ *Note* Thread Closing Shortly! ! !

Options
1…317318320322323…330

Comments

  • Options
    #9572
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Or in other words is killing off what was to become your child worse than occasional and mild parental neglect. Yes. IMO. Absolutely.

    So, it's better to be born and live with neglectful, abusive, possibly junkie parents and have a life that will in turn see you become a neglectful, abusive, possible junkie than to never exist at all and never know any pain or hurt?


  • Options
    #9573
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Because something is legal/lawful it doesn't mean that it is moral - such as legal human slavery.


    Something being illegal doesn't make it immoral either.


  • Options
    #9574
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    kylith wrote: »
    So, it's better to be born and live with neglectful, abusive, possibly junkie parents and have a life that will in turn see you become a neglectful, abusive, possible junkie than to never exist at all and never know any pain or hurt?


    Well the prolife concern ends with the birth, doncha know, like the US republicans who deny the poor medical treatment, food and housing, but don't want easy access to abortion. Once the unborn exits the uterus, all bets are off. Cos its easy to care about something you don't see, and difficult to care about things which actually cost money.


  • Options
    #9575
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Because something is legal/lawful it doesn't mean that it is moral - such as legal human slavery.

    Morality is relative, as is evident from reading this thread. Just because you find something immoral doesn't mean it is wrong.

    So, you're not really pro-choice are you? Despite claiming you are.


  • Options
    #9576
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    That's not extremist language, it is accurate. Biologically speaking, a foetus is a parasite.

    A definition of a foetus from a medical dictionary http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fetus

    No mention of "parasite". Can you provide a medical definition of a "foetus" that does include this? Otherwise you are pretty shaky ground for your "extremist language"...


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #9577
    SebBerkovich
    Registered Users Posts: 1,624 ✭✭✭SebBerkovich


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    A definition of a foetus from a medical dictionary http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fetus

    No mention of "parasite". Can you provide a medical definition of a "foetus" that does include this? Otherwise you are pretty shaky ground for your "extremist language"...

    par·a·site
    /ˈparəˌsīt/
    Noun
    An organism that lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the host's expense.


  • Options
    #9578
    FactCheck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 397 ✭✭FactCheck


    loveisdivine wrote: »
    She didn't have an abortion because she obviously didn't want one. She had the choice and she made the right choice for herself. Why not let others make that choice too?

    She didn't actually even have a choice; abortion was illegal under Pinochet for anything but extremely restrictive medical reasons.


  • Options
    #9579
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Morality is relative, as is evident from reading this thread. Just because you find something immoral doesn't mean it is wrong.

    So, you're not really pro-choice are you? Despite claiming you are.

    I recognise it as a complex issue and I am somewhere in between. It is the extremists on both side of the spectrum who dogmatically fail to acknowledge this who are a big part of the problem IMO.


  • Options
    #9580
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    SebBerkovich wrote: »
    par·a·site
    /ˈparəˌsīt/
    Noun
    An organism that lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the host's expense.

    Read my post again. It says definition of a foetus. Thanks.


  • Options
    #9581
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    FactCheck wrote: »
    She didn't actually even have a choice; abortion was illegal under Pinochet for anything but extremely restrictive medical reasons.
    She actually did. Latin America has among the highest abortion rates in the world by backstreet abortionists.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #9582
    SebBerkovich
    Registered Users Posts: 1,624 ✭✭✭SebBerkovich


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Read my post again. It says definition of a foetus. Thanks.

    par·a·site / foetus
    /ˈparəˌsīt/
    Noun
    An organism that lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the host's expense.


    Fixed.


  • Options
    #9583
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    kylith wrote: »
    So, it's better to be born and live with neglectful, abusive, possibly junkie parents and have a life that will in turn see you become a neglectful, abusive, possible junkie than to never exist at all and never know any pain or hurt?

    What indication is there that old hippy's mates were junkies, abusive etc? That is what I was discussing.


  • Options
    #9584
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    SebBerkovich wrote: »
    par·a·site / foetus
    /ˈparəˌsīt/
    Noun
    An organism that lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the host's expense.


    Fixed.

    Nah...Now you are using "extremist language" too.


  • Options
    #9585
    SebBerkovich
    Registered Users Posts: 1,624 ✭✭✭SebBerkovich


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Nah...Now you are using "extremist language" too.

    Yup, Science can seem pretty extreme sometimes. especially when it doesn't line up with your preferred view of reality.

    Still, you are completely entitled to ignore the facts. That is your Choice.


  • Options
    #9586
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Can't work out if you are being serious here. I've only asked you a single question and you went to comical lengths to avoid answering.

    I've made every effort to answer every question within reason. There have been many questions though.

    I didn't answer your's < the hypothetical one about the Irish homeless pregnant woman > because I had more or less already answered it with a real example from my own life.



    We've visited her home town and the poverty there is on a scale unimaginable relative to your Irish example, I would expect it was considerably worse for the poor under Pinochet when my wife was born. Her mother had the option of abortion but instead she had a beautiful child instead. The mother is now clean, got herself together and living with her new family

    I don't think you can argue at this being the better outcome?
    My wife was born to a homeless drug addict in Chile and was left to an orphanage. She was adopted into a Swedish family who are multi-millionaires and extremely kind and loving parents. She has had a wonderful life full of every opportunity you could imagine.

    Alternatively she could have had her brain sucked from her head so her skull would cave in before she had a chance at life.

    I didn't ask about your wifes life story....her story is irrelevant for one simple reason....this is Ireland we are talking about not Chile.


  • Options
    #9587
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    SebBerkovich wrote: »
    Yup, Science can seem pretty extreme sometimes. especially when it doesn't line up with your preferred view of reality.

    Still, you are completely entitled to ignore the facts. That is your Choice.
    Not ignoring the facts. In fact I am requesting them. Can you provide a medical definition of a "foetus" being described as a "parasite"? Yes or No?

    If you cannot it is you who is "ignoring the facts".


  • Options
    #9588
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    FactCheck wrote: »
    She didn't actually even have a choice; abortion was illegal under Pinochet for anything but extremely restrictive medical reasons.
    She actually did. Latin America has among the highest abortion rates in the world by backstreet abortionists.
    Is this what you mean when you say you're pro-choice?


  • Options
    #9589
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    bumper234 wrote: »
    I didn't ask about your wifes life story....her story is irrelevant for one simple reason....this is Ireland we are talking about not Chile.
    People are people regardless of where their passport says - or do you disagree?


  • Options
    #9590
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Dades wrote: »
    Is this what you mean when you say you're pro-choice?
    No. It was to point out the her mother had a choice between abortion and adoption.


  • Options
    #9591
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    kylith wrote: »
    While I wouldn't use the term parasite myself, it is the word for a creature which depends entirely on taking nutrients from a host to sustain itself.
    While the term "parasite" is accurate, it has social overtones that shouldn't be ignored in normal debate.

    My own kid, for example, fits that definition of "parasite" fairly well, but I don't refer to her as one, nor do I think of her as one, and I wouldn't expect too many other people to do so either.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #9592
    SebBerkovich
    Registered Users Posts: 1,624 ✭✭✭SebBerkovich


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    People are people regardless of where their passport says - or do you disagree?

    That is a great example of.....

    The Straw Man Fallacy

    A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man"...


  • Options
    #9593
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    People are people regardless of where their passport says - or do you disagree?

    Yes people are people. But laws in Chile back in the 70s have nothing to do with laws in Ireland in 2013!


  • Options
    #9594
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    SebBerkovich wrote: »
    That is a great example of.....

    The Straw Man Fallacy

    A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man"...

    Hmmmmmmm

    So do tell me what the difference is between the relatively impoverished pregant Irish woman and the relatively impoverished pregnant Chilean woman.


  • Options
    #9595
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Hmmmmmmm

    So do tell me what the difference is between the relatively impoverished pregant Irish woman and the relatively impoverished pregnant Chilean woman.


    The difference in the 2 situations you are referring to are 40 years and 11,600 kilometers.:rolleyes:


  • Options
    #9596
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,776 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    can you post a medical link of a single healthy foetus being referred to as parasitic??

    i think you are being brainwashed by pro-choices loopy propaganda.

    Why would I need to do that?


  • Options
    #9597
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    bumper234 wrote: »
    The difference in the 2 situations you are referring to are 40 years and 11,600 kilometers.:rolleyes:
    And what has that to do with a mother making the choice of having killed-off her own unborn child or giving birth to it, putting it up for adoption and the child growing up healthily and happily in a loving environment?


  • Options
    #9598
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,776 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    kylith wrote: »
    While I wouldn't use the term parasite myself, it is the word for a creature which depends entirely on taking nutrients from a host to sustain itself. This is what a foetus does; it leeches nutrients from it's host (mother) to sustain itself and grow. In purely detached terms there is little difference between a foetus and a tapeworm.

    Just to point out, I wasn't trying to use and emotional argument when I used the term "parasite". It was to reinforce the biological connection between mother and foetus and justify my disbelieve that sufficient anaesthetic to numb a 50+kg woman for invasive surgery couldn't numb a 200g foetus which absorbs all its nutrients from her.


  • Options
    #9599
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Why would I need to do that?
    Because you described the foetus as a "parasite".


  • Options
    #9600
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    And what has that to do with a mother making the choice of having killed-off her own unborn child or giving birth to it and the child growing up healthily and happily in a loving environment?

    OK

    So what about a woman during the Famine? She cannot feed it she cannot give it a loving home and if she goes through with the birth both will die. Is it ok for her to have an abortion?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #9601
    SebBerkovich
    Registered Users Posts: 1,624 ✭✭✭SebBerkovich


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    And what has that to do with a mother making the choice of having killed-off her own unborn child or giving birth to it and the child growing up healthily and happily in a loving environment?

    You left out "happily ever after" that's usually how fairy tales end.

    You're talking about anecdotal evidence here, it's not relevant to the argument, anyone can come up with some hearsay to back up their argument. And of course add some flowery language to try and manipulate a response.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement