Abortion/ *Note* Thread Closing Shortly! ! !

Bannasidhe

Mario852 wrote: »

If a woman is that mentally ill, then someone should take of her, and be treated like other people who are in danger of harming others or themselves.

I know abortion is the easiest way out and that's why you like it so much, but isn't killing a bit too far?

Are you suggesting what I think you are suggesting? :eek:

old hippy

Mario852 wrote: »

If a woman is that mentally ill, then someone should take of her, and be treated like other people who are in danger of harming others or themselves.

I know abortion is the easiest way out and that's why you like it so much, but isn't killing a bit too far?

Yeah, we all love abortion here :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Plenty of us have gone through it or have had a partner who's had to terminate. These things aren't done lightly.

Anyways, the answer is simple. You don't like abortion - so don't get one done. End of.

Mario852

old hippy wrote: »

Yeah, we all love abortion here :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Plenty of us have gone through it or have had a partner who's had to terminate. These things aren't done lightly.

Anyways, the answer is simple. You don't like abortion - so don't get one done. End of.

Ye previously described pregnancy as 9 month of horrendous and unbearable, mental and physical "suffering" and spending rest of your lifes on actually taking care of your child...

Compared to a few weeks of temporary unpleasantness, by killing your unborn child...
How is it not the easy way out for ye?

Make up your mind people.

swampgas

Mario852 wrote: »

Life is a process, it has to start and end at some point.
Since we already know that it ends at death, we just need to find where it begins at.

I don't mean to drag the thread off-topic, but we don't necessarily give the choice of living or dying to adults either. Often the same people who argue that a non-sentient blob of cells should be given the choice of living - often when there isn't even a brain capable of making such a choice - will also argue against allowing a grown adult to choose the manner of their own death, even if they are completely rational and in great pain.

The mantra seems to be life at any cost, regardless of the quality of that life.

Bannasidhe

Mario852 wrote: »

If a woman is that mentally ill, then someone should take of her, and be treated like other people who are in danger of harming others or themselves.

Can you please clarify what exactly you mean here?

Mario852

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Can you please clarify what exactly you mean here?

She should be treated like other people who are in danger of damaging someone's/own health/life.
i.e. Like a mentally ill person.

Sarky

I'm going to go out on a limb here and bet that you're not terribly familiar with mental health issues. Would I be somewhere near the mark?

Bannasidhe

Mario852 wrote: »

She should be treated like other people who are in danger of damaging someone's/own health/life.
i.e. Like a mentally ill person.

So a woman who wants an abortion should be placed in a psychiatric unit - against her will - so she cannot have an abortion?

Do you realise you are advocating incarcerating women and forcing them to bare children?

That is barbaric.

kylith

Mario852 wrote: »

She should be treated like other people who are in danger of damaging someone's/own health/life.
i.e. Like a mentally ill person.

So, if a woman gets pregnant through rape, or the failure of contraception, or perhaps a woman is financially unable or emotionally unready to have a child, and she makes the difficult decision to end the pregnancy; she should be imprisoned in a mental institution. Is that really what you're saying?

Mario852

swampgas wrote: »

I don't mean to drag the thread off-topic, but we don't necessarily give the choice of living or dying to adults either. Often the same people who argue that a non-sentient blob of cells should be given the choice of living - often when there isn't even a brain capable of making such a choice - will also argue against allowing a grown adult to choose the manner of their own death, even if they are completely rational and in great pain.

The mantra seems to be life at any cost, regardless of the quality of that life.

1. We don't give a legal choice to the adults but we also don't force death on them if we feel like doing so.

As long as its a non-forced conscious decision, it is a decision.
I do not say that we should support suicides but at least if you are going to kill the baby anyway then give a choice.

Mario852

kylith wrote: »

So, if a woman gets pregnant through rape, or the failure of contraception, or perhaps a woman is financially unable or emotionally unready to have a child, and she makes the difficult decision to end the pregnancy; she should be imprisoned in a mental institution. Is that really what you're saying?

They aren't prisons, they are mental institution made to help emotionally unstable people.

Bannasidhe

kylith wrote: »

So, if a woman gets pregnant through rape, or the failure of contraception, or perhaps a woman is financially unable or emotionally unready to have a child, and she makes the difficult decision to end the pregnancy; she should be imprisoned in a mental institution. Is that really what you're saying?

Aw feck it - let's put them somewhere where they can help off-set the cost of their care. I know - laundries!

Malari

Mario852 wrote: »

They aren't prisons, they are mental institution made to help emotionally unstable people.

Are you ACTUALLY saying a woman who doesn't want to be pregnant is emotionally unstable and belongs in a mental institution?

eviltwin

Mario852 wrote: »

They aren't prisons, they are mental institution made to help emotionally unstable people.

I've had an abortion. I'm not mentally unstable but if I had been forced to endure an unwanted pregnancy I would probably have been very depressed, stressed etc

I can assure you Mario everyone is quite safe with me

Bannasidhe

Mario852 wrote: »

They aren't prisons, they are mental institution made to help emotionally unstable people.

Desire to have an abortion is not a mental illness.
Desire to incarcerate people against their will and force them to have a child may be indicative of one. IMHO. It's certainly fascistic.

eviltwin

Attitudes like this actually scare me. This belief that the unborn child must be born AT ALL COSTS

Its horrific to think any woman would be reduced to nothing more than a human incubator if these people had their way.

Bannasidhe

eviltwin wrote: »

Attitudes like this actually scare me. This belief that the unborn child must be born AT ALL COSTS

Its horrific to think any woman would be reduced to nothing more than a human incubator if these people had their way.

It is utterly appalling and quite scary.

It calls for a woman's human rights to be completely suspended from the moment she becomes pregnant. Including her right to liberty.

swampgas

Mario852 wrote: »

1. We don't give a legal choice to the adults but we also don't force death on them if we feel like doing so.

As long as its a non-forced conscious decision, it is a decision.
I do not say that we should support suicides but at least if you are going to kill the baby anyway then give a choice.

You say that an unthinking, unaware fetus should somehow be given a choice, yet you refuse to allow an adult to make a similar choice?

My point is that the only option you seem to support is that of extending life, regardless of the value of that life.

Not all life has the same value, not all life is worth preserving. Every time you eat meat you accept that not all animal life has the same value as human life. Every time you don't send every penny you have to help the starving victims of famine in the world, you accept that not every human life has the same value as your own.

Mario852

swampgas wrote: »

You say that an unthinking, unaware fetus should somehow be given a choice, yet you refuse to allow an adult to make a similar choice?

My point is that the only option you seem to support is that of extending life, regardless of the value of that life.

Not all life has the same value, not all life is worth preserving. Every time you eat meat you accept that not all animal life has the same value as human life. Every time you don't send every penny you have to help the starving victims of famine in the world, you accept that not every human life has the same value as your own.

A human being (even at a fetal stage) should be given an option, the only way to do this is to wait until it's able to express its own opinion.

So if you had a choice of saving a person by being pregnant for 9 months, you would just let that person die?

You cannot judge value of life. There were a few people who have tried that before you, namely Hitler and other judging guys. He didn't really value life of most race (especially Jewish people), or handicapped people.
You cannot just come up with your own definition of who (or what) is more valuable or of what's 'right' and 'wrong' and claim that you are right.

By the way, please read back a few pages before posting new comments.

MagicMarker

Mario852 wrote: »

You cannot just come up with your own definition of who (or what) is more valuable or of what's 'right' and 'wrong' and claim that you are right.

Can you?

Mario852

eviltwin wrote: »

Attitudes like this actually scare me. This belief that the unborn child must be born AT ALL COSTS

Its horrific to think any woman would be reduced to nothing more than a human incubator if these people had their way.

Not at all costs, as i have said before, I think it is better for the fetus to die than for both mother and the baby to die.

Ohh and you think it should be turned into an use and flush machine?

Please few pages back before posting, if you are new to this section.

Bannasidhe

Mario852 wrote: »

A human being (even at a fetal stage) should be given an option, the only way to do this is to wait until it's able to express its own opinion.

So if you had a choice of saving a person by being pregnant for 9 months, you would just let that person die?

You cannot judge value of life. There were a few people who have tried that before you, namely Hitler and other judging guys. He didn't really value life of most race (especially Jewish people), or handicapped people.
You cannot just come up with your own definition of who (or what) is more valuable or of what's 'right' and 'wrong' and claim that you are right.

By the way, please read back a few pages before posting new comments.

You do not see it as at all ironic - or hypocritical - that you who are banging on about choice are also advocating locking women away in psychiatric units against their will to force them to continue with a pregnancy?

And you have the audacity to claim this is because you value human life???? Apparently, not of that life belongs to a woman.

Bannasidhe

Mario852 wrote: »

By the way, please read back a few pages before posting new comments.

Mario852 wrote: »

Please few pages back before posting, if you are new to this section.

Have we a new MOD here in A&A?

Nobody tells me anything!:mad:

Mario852

Bannasidhe wrote: »

You do not see it as at all ironic - or hypocritical - that you who are banging on about choice are also advocating locking women away in psychiatric units against their will to force them to continue with a pregnancy?

And you have the audacity to claim this is because you value human life???? Apparently, not of that life belongs to a woman.

I have pointed out before that I have never said about locking anyone anywhere.
I said about her receiving help from the mental-help institutions.
Not because she I want her to continue the pregnancy (I do but its not much to do with it here), but to get her out of the emotionally unbalanced state, so she cannot do any harm to herself and to others.

Mario852

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Have we a new MOD here in A&A?

Nobody tells me anything!:mad:

I have politely asked new people to this thread to read back a few pages so they will know what has been said already.

You really like to change the meaning of my posts, don't you?

Noodleworm

I've been reading a book recently about myths in parenthood, I'm finding it plays into the abortion debate a lot. Especial the fact people seem to think if they can make a women endure pregnancy everything will be hunky-dory. When in reality children bring on higher chances of depression, a loss of self identity, problems supporting you both financially, difficulties getting a job.
Most studies say that people who plan to have kids had them because they thought it would make them happy and their lives complete. Women don't talk about how hard and lonely a job it can be for fear of people thinking their unfit mothers.

Bannasidhe

Mario852 wrote: »

I have pointed out before that I have never said about locking anyone anywhere.
I said about her receiving help from the mental-help institutions.

And exactly what do you suggest be done with women who quite rightly say shove your 'mental-help' I am not suffering from a mental illness - I am suffering from an unwanted pregnancy?

Should they be forced?
What if they leave?
Will they be restrained?

Bannasidhe

Mario852 wrote: »

I have politely asked new people to this thread to read back a few pages so they will know what has been said already.

You really like to change the meaning of my posts, don't you?

If you had read the whole thread you would see that the people you are telling to read back have been participating since the beginning.

Perhaps you should read the whole thread?

I am trying to understand the meaning of your posts and at the moment you are coming across as one very scary individual.

swampgas

Mario852 wrote: »

[ ... ]

You cannot judge value of life. There were a few people who have tried that before you, namely Hitler and other judging guys. He didn't really value life of most race (especially Jewish people), or handicapped people.
You cannot just come up with your own definition of who (or what) is more valuable or of what's 'right' and 'wrong' and claim that you are right.

By the way, please read back a few pages before posting new comments.

You must be new to the internet. Ever heard of Godwin?

And yes, I had read the entire thread when I posted what I posted.

People judge the value of life all the time, as I illustrated. It's important that we do. Do you think a hamster has the same value to you as a child? If not, then you just made a judgement on which life is more valuable. Are you sure you're allowed to do that?

Mario852

Bannasidhe wrote: »

If you had read the whole thread you would see that the people you are telling to read back have been participating since the beginning.

Perhaps you should read the whole thread?

I am trying to understand the meaning of your posts and at the moment you are coming across as one very scary individual.

I am slowly reading through 100 pages of this interesting thread.
I am happy that you ran out of arguments about the topic and started using personal insults instead.