Do we really consider ourselves European?

Colmustard

I am closer to London then I am to Berlin.

wp_rathead

I'm European during the Ryder Cup

HavingCrack

Solair wrote: »

Not everyone in Europe speaks two languages fluently.
Countries that speak big languages with international scope and large media contents i.e. English, Spanish and French tend to be quite poor at second languages.

German-speakers are a bit better because they've a much more limited creative media and no empirical links.

Small countries that speak weird languages tend to have to use all their neighboring languages.

If you're somewhere like Denmark or Holland you pretty much have to speak another language, usually English and possibly German or you're really restricting yourself.

This is very true actually. Very few Italians speak a 2nd language, likewise in Greece and Portugal and a lot of Eastern Europe. They might have a few phrases but they're about as fluent as most Irish people are in French or German. Spain is a little better

Eve_Dublin

HavingCrack wrote: »

This is very true actually. Very few Italians speak a 2nd language, likewise in Greece and Portugal and a lot of Eastern Europe. They might have a few phrases but they're about as fluent as most Irish people are in French or German. Spain is a little better

Portuguese have phenomenal English...better than all other Latin countries combined. Italians are better at English than the Spanish. it was published in a Spanish paper a few months ago that they were the worst English speakers in Europe while Italy came a close second last.

sweeney1971

What about all those people who gave their lives for Irish Independence from England would say about giving power and identity away to 26 other Countries?

EU= New World Order

Biggins

I am one with the planet, I'm a Gian!

MHalberstram

sweeney1971 wrote: »

What about all those people who gave their lives for Irish Independence from England would say about giving power and identity away to 26 other Countries?

EU= New World Order

The EU is not the World. Paranoid garbage.

KenSwee

Europe first, Irishman second. Proud to be both. Would pick it any day over anywhere else. Europe is the best part of the world.

sweeney1971

MHalberstram wrote: »

The EU is not the World. Paranoid garbage.

You need to travel more my friend and open your eyes. The EU tells member countries what they can and cannot do, take rights and law's away from Countries. Look at the UK, a dumping ground for Europes unwanted and Asylum Seekers, what happens when the UK is full? All the EU's rubbish comes here.
Wake up and smell the Roses.

poeticseraphim

Generally when i travel i find the Europeans do not consider Irish people European at all.

In Belgiam i was told a Swede is European , a Spaniard is european , a German is european maybe even a British person is european...you are not you are Irish.

Infact we are seen as exotic and unknown and free from a lot of the baggage associated with the EU and other nations as not much is known about us.

Infact when they mention PIIGS we are never mentioned in terms of the financial crisis ....it's like oh the Irish sorted all that out now right?

Strangely none of those countries refered to as truly European consider themselves to be Europeans.

By the way i think European just means white.

Maybe smaller countries like the idea of tugging the coat tails.

I have no idea if I am European.....

Oh wait i use my knife and fork the right way!

MHalberstram

sweeney1971 wrote: »

You need to travel more my friend and open your eyes. The EU tells member countries what they can and cannot do, take rights and law's away from Countries. Look at the UK, a dumping ground for Europes unwanted and Asylum Seekers, what happens when the UK is full? All the EU's rubbish comes here.
Wake up and smell the Roses.

Nice little racist rant. Reported.

Lawrence1895

MHalberstram wrote: »

Nice little racist rant. Reported.

Same here. I would not consider myself being 'rubbish'. I smell to nice, sometimes even like roses

smokedeels

I'm both, I enjoy belonging to a larger cultural/political Union but I'm aware of how much growing up in Ireland has giving me certain traits that differ from a person who grew up in Spain or Germany. However, that's no more an issue to me than the differences between somebody from Dublin and somebody from Donegal. I don't think being pro-Europe means you want to erode the culture of the individual states. To me it's about bringing them together... it's hippie stuff... but I like that idea, it's better than kicking the sh1t out of each other in wars.

Personally, I'd welcome further political and economic integration with Europe (when/if it can be done responsibly and democratically) and if we cross the final hurdle then I'd gladly exchange my Irish passport for one that just says European.

I'm not qualified to argue about the economics of the EU project, but I can see first hand that this country has become a more open, interesting and socially-liberal place to live.

Solair

poeticseraphim wrote: »

Generally when i travel i find the Europeans do not consider Irish people European at all.

In Belgiam i was told a Swede is European , a Spaniard is european , a German is european maybe even a British person is european...you are not you are Irish.

Infact we are seen as exotic and unknown and free from a lot of the baggage associated with the EU and other nations as not much is known about us.

Infact when they mention PIIGS we are never mentioned in terms of the financial crisis ....it's like oh the Irish sorted all that out now right?

Strangely none of those countries refered to as truly European consider themselves to be Europeans.

By the way i think European just means white.

Maybe smaller countries like the idea of tugging the coat tails.

I have no idea if I am European.....

Oh wait i use my knife and fork the right way!

Are you sure you didn't get misheard as "Iceland" which is indeed an exotic unknown and outside the EU?

I'm in Belgium at the moment and there is a very strong awareness of Ireland and Irish culture. Much more than you would expect actually! Quite a lot of Flanders people are also acutely aware of Ireland, Scotland and other areas that had to deal with things like language-discrimination in the past as there are parallels here.

The European quarter of Brussels probably has an over-representation of Irish people too as we seem to be a bit more likely to go for European-related jobs than the British are. You hear loads of Irish accents around the area and there are also some very popular and very authentic Irish bars within a few meters of the European Commission.

On top of that, there's an awareness of Irish food products with Irish meat products in particular featuring on a lot of Belgian menus and being sold as a well-branded premium product in major supermarket chains.

There's even an exclusive Irish butchers in Schuman !

http://www.jackoshea.com/

The experience that I have had over here is that they see us as a more open, and European-friendly version of the UK.

I also lived in France and Spain and the image of Ireland is extremely positive. A lot of Spanish people I encountered preferred the idea of learning English in Ireland as there was a perception that it was friendlier and safer than England and also that our version of English was easier to learn as it was somewhere between UK and US English.

Also, with regard to the PIIGS classification. There seems to be zero news coverage of Ireland and lots and lots of coverage of Greece, Spain and Italy.

I think that's probably a positive thing as the assumption is that we're capable of getting back to normality again where as they are very concerned about the Southern European countries and even quite a lot of central European countries like France and Belgium where there are deep issues with structural unemployment and lack of competitiveness.

I really do think that some people on here have a tendency to self-loath when it comes to Ireland. The image abroad is a LOT more positive than some online posters would have you believe.

KenSwee

My wife is Polish and speaking from personal experience, all Poles I know definitely see Irish as Europeans.
Russia on the other hand...

Lawrence1895

KenSwee wrote: »

My wife is Polish and speaking from personal experience, all Poles I know definitely see Ireland as part of Europe.

Russia on the other hand...

Everybody sees Ireland as a part of Europe, I would say

pragmatic1

Don't consider myself European at all. Don't think we have much in common with the rest of the EU. I'm Irish and that's it.

MHalberstram

I do think that we feel a little isolated from the rest of Europe as an island nation. It would be great to be able to just get on the motorway and drive to mainland Europe in the morning. Something like the chunnel would be cool.

Solair

Yeah, but we make up for it by having pretty much pioneered the concept of intra-european low cost flying with Ryanair.
Say what you like about Ryanair, but it has opened up a hell of a lot of cities in really remote parts of Europe and made a lot of smaller places a lot more accessible.

KenSwee

KenSwee wrote: »

My wife is Polish and speaking from personal experience, all Poles I know definitely see Irish as Europeans.
Russia on the other hand...

Lars1916 wrote: »

Everybody sees Ireland as a part of Europe, I would say

Happy?

Lawrence1895

KenSwee wrote: »

Happy?

I don't really mind people, who deny Ireland being a part of Europe, since I know, they are wrong

karma_

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Don't consider myself European at all. Don't think we have much in common with the rest of the EU. I'm Irish and that's it.

It's hardly a matter of consideration, it's a matter of geography. Like it or not, you are 100%, definitely, scientifically provable, no doubt about it, categorically, conclusively, unquestionably European.

pragmatic1

karma_ wrote: »

It's hardly a matter of consideration, it's a matter of geography. Like it or not, you are 100%, definitely, scientifically provable, no doubt about it, categorically, conclusively, unquestionably European.

I might live in the same continent but that's about it. We speak different languages, have different cultures, different values, different genetics, different legal systems, different lifestyles, etc. We have much more in common with the rest of the anglosphere.

Lawrence1895

pragmatic1 wrote: »

I might live in the same continent but that's about it. We speak different languages, have different cultures, different values, different genetics, different legal systems, different lifestyles, etc. We have much more in common with the rest of the anglosphere.

And still, the Brits don't have too many friends in Ireland, do they?

karma_

pragmatic1 wrote: »

I might live in the same continent but that's about it. We speak different languages, have different cultures, different values, different genetics, different legal systems, different lifestyles, etc. We have much more in common with the rest of the anglosphere.

The whole world has those differences though, cultural diversity is no bad thing, it adds a bit of spice to life. I'd dispute that we have more in common with the anglosphere too, I've lived in the states and we are culturally miles apart, doubly so for those English speaking parts of Africa I'd imagine.

pragmatic1

Lars1916 wrote: »

And still, the Brits don't have too many friends in Ireland, do they?

That depends. Many of those Brits have Irish grandparents. We've more in common with each other than any other nation.

Lawrence1895

karma_ wrote: »

The whole world has those differences though, cultural diversity is no bad thing, it adds a bit of spice to life. I'd dispute that we have more in common with the anglosphere too, I've lived in the states and we are culturally miles apart, doubly so for those English speaking parts of Africa I'd imagine.

Maybe, it's because I'm German, but I see some similarities: Shopping centres, both love their cars (okay, the Germans do that, too), the way, housing estates are built or Turkey and Ham for Christmas. Just saying, might not even be an important aspect of what you define as 'culture'

pragmatic1

karma_ wrote: »

The whole world has those differences though, cultural diversity is no bad thing, it adds a bit of spice to life. I'd dispute that we have more in common with the anglosphere too, I've lived in the states and we are culturally miles apart, doubly so for those English speaking parts of Africa I'd imagine.

Europeans are about as similar to each other as Asian countries are to each other i.e. they live on the same continent but that's were most the similarities end.

Lawrence1895

pragmatic1 wrote: »

That depends. Many of those Brits have Irish grandparents. We've more in common with each other than any other nation.

The majority of people I met in Ireland told me, they didn't like the British, some even talking about hatred. And that I, as a German, should dislike them as well.

The 2nd World War is long over, and I had a great time with some Millwall supporters when the played at Tolka Park the other night, That's all I can say about it

Annasopra

Plumpynutt wrote: »

I consider myself both

Same here

rugrats

I wonder do the French and Germans think of themselves as European. Or do we just think that they think of themselves as European?

Solair

rugrats wrote: »

I wonder do the French and Germans think of themselves as European. Or do we just think that they think of themselves as European?

We just think of them as "European".
They mostly think of themselves as French or German.

Actually, the Germans are more likely to consider themselves as having a regional identity too. Especially people from the more culturally-differentiated landern.

France is a tad more unitary. Although, people from areas like Brittany, Corsica, the Basque Region etc are more likely to identify as that, then maybe French, then European.

Spanish identity's almost entirely regional then maybe national if they're playing an international football match.

juan.kerr

Unfortunately I think the germans still think of themselves as the master race and the rest of europe as 'Untermensch', there to do their bidding, in this case consuming their exports.

HavingCrack

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Portuguese have phenomenal English...better than all other Latin countries combined. Italians are better at English than the Spanish. it was published in a Spanish paper a few months ago that they were the worst English speakers in Europe while Italy came a close second last.

That's interesting about Portugal, when I was in the Algarve I found most people had a grasp of English but in Porto and Lisbon pretty much no one seemed to speak it outside of tourist offices and hotels.

Ok, fair enough about Spain, I'm not overly familiar with it outside of Catalonia and Seville but I've travelled all over Italy and the grasp of English is as you said pretty poor. The Italian education system in general is a disaster though, particularly anywhere south of Florence.

an langer

Of course we are European, even more so the past few years. Style, fashion, cars, food, travel, hobbies.... pretty much same as rest of Europe apart from uniquely Irish sports. I've never come across anyone saying we weren't Europeans... strange to think otherwise (maybe older people think this??)

Micky Dolenz

You can be both. like the Japanese and Thai people are Asian. Completely different language and culture but still share a continent.

c_man

JohnMarston wrote: »

I am an organic lifeform, which particular type is not important

So do you go to a vet or a doctor when ill?

Grayson

I consider myself both.

And I know I definitely have more in common with european than americans for example. I believe that when it comes to a political or social outlook on life, most europeans share the same common ideals.

carlmango11

I think it's really just the language barriers that give us Irish the feeling that we're more similar to the Americans than the rest of Europe. I studied in France for 6 months and I always felt (once speaking a common language) that we're actually very similar to a lot of other European cultures; French, Italian; Spanish etc. German... hmm they're a little more serious than the others but I still felt much more similar than to the Americans and Asians I met.

It's strange, from watching American films and speaking the same language I always assumed we were similar but it wasn't until I spent a lot of time around them that I realised their culture is actually very, very different. I couldn't quite put my finger on it but there was something very different about us...

Cee-Jay-Cee

I'm From Europe but I'm not European, I'm irish.

blahfckingblah

I'm European in the sense that Ireland is geographically located in Europe. I'm Irish in that that's my state and i feel no allegiance to any train wreck European projects or Pan-European identity

an langer

I'm Irish and European in the sense of being a citizen of the European Union and seeing other people from EU countries as common citizens.

karma_

CJC999 wrote: »

I'm From Europe but I'm not European, I'm irish.

Do you see the contradiction in this sentence?

Shenshen

I'm a European who was born and raised in Germany, by German and Austrian parents, later moved to Ireland and married an Englishman.

Why would I narrow myself down to one nationality?

Micky Dolenz

Shenshen wrote: »

I'm a European who was born and raised in Germany, by German and Austrian parents, later moved to Ireland and married an Englishman.

Why would I narrow myself down to one nationality?

You'd need to, to get a passport.

You are German. Do I win a prize?

Madam

I'm a European Irishwoman living in the UK:D

Or I could be an Irish European if you like!

Shenshen

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

You'd need to, to get a passport.

You are German. Do I win a prize?

I'm in transition, as it were

EdenHazard

Just to clear up Ireland has nothing in common with USA. Just because you watched Kenan and Kel and Terminator doesn't mean you have something in common. Ireland is completely different from US. US is a nation of immigrants, Ireland is the exact opposite.

Irish are European but if national identity is meaningless then I dunno what being European is...pointless probably. In general like has been mentioned 'Europeans' don't see themselves as European, this is an American concept really.