Need to pick your braaaiiiins.

Andy!!

Sorry, just started watching The Walking Dead.

I'm looking to get a new PC sometime soon. I would be interested in building my own, as I have never done it. I've always used gaming laptops previously. I'm a big into games, and I'm having severe withdrawal symptoms currently because I'm stuck with a borderline unusable Asus netbook (seriously, useless things even for web-browsing) and an i5 Mac Air. I can play a decent amount of games on the Air but I need a bit more meat in my games and Braid just ain't cutting it for me anymore.

Like I said I've always preferred gaming laptops, because of their portability. Not Alienware or anything like that, but gaming laptops from back when Aldi used to sell decent ones. I am open to just going with another gaming laptop again, but people keep telling how superior custom PC builds are so I thought I'd go for it. :pac: I was looking at getting one of the Asus G7* series laptop, but damn they are expensive!! I am pretty interested in having a stereoscopic 3D capable system, but, I could be talked out of it. I would love to see Assasins Creed III and Skyrim in 3D though.

Here's the catch. I am currently living in South Korea. And I plan on moving around a fair bit in the next 6/8 years, most likely every two years (I'm here 4 months). That's going to affect where I can buy online, and also, very importantly, the size of my PC case. I watched the NewEgg youtube series on building a PC, and they use a full tower in their build, and there is just so much unused space. If I was to build, I would probably only use SSD's (maybe 2 256GB's?) and one graphics card, so that's saving a lot on space right there. Are there smaller PC cases for the space conscious? I would need something I could transport in a year or two. Is cooling a huge issue with smaller cases? Is there a 'flat' kind of case that is a decent size?

Another huge factor considering I am in South Korea, and that I plan to maybe live a bit in Japan next, is going to be the PSU. What's the story there? Will I have to rip the S.K. one completely and replace it, or just change the power cable?

I'm a hardened Intel and nVidia fanboy too, despite nVidia's recent screw-ups with Optimus and the like, so that's also a factor. As well as playing games, I also make games and use 3D programs so I would like the card to have Kepler and CUDA. I read in another thread, that new mid-level nVidia cards are coming out soon? What's the skinny on those? I'd be looking at getting a 3GB card, to run any stereoscopic 3D I need down the road. Also if they weren't super huge that would be great, considering.

The last factor is that I have a credit card, but it is a student card from back in the day, with a 600 euro limit on there. This is one factor that is affecting my decision to just build, cause I can't lay down 1500 in one go. I'm not looking to spend that much on a build though, tbh. Maybe including screen and all peripherals. I realise this might not be realistic, especially if I need a blu-ray drive for movies...

So, any thoughts you might have would be great, and we'll go from there.

Andy!!

Anyone? I've just been reading about the GTX 690 coming out, made me drool, pity I don't have a grand to drop on a card!

Lex_Diamonds

Well the power supply won't need to be ripped out. They are dual voltage, depending on where you are in the world, the only thing you'll have to concern yourself with is a plug converter.

I was going to suggest getting a micro/mini atx mobo type case, one of those little box ones, but I really dont know if you can fit a decent graphics card in them! Anyone?

dannyd20

re the cases

I like Lian Li http://www.lian-li.com/v2/en/product/product06.php?pr_index=605&cl_index=1&sc_index=25&ss_index=64&g=f
Silverstone also have good rep http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=317&area=en
and there is also ITX depot http://www.itxdepot.com/xcart/home.php?cat=31100

You'll definitely be able to find a small case which will fit a full size gpu.

Cooling may be a little more of a challenge but if you plan the internal layout upfront, it shouldn't be a problem.

Serephucus

Can you post from this thread and we'll work from there. Depending on your budget, you've got quite a few options (and I'm assuming someone that can afford a 512GB SSD can look into watercooling as well.)

uberpixie

www.bitfenix.com/global/en/products/chassis/prodigy/

Have a look at this case. Has gotten very good reviews.

Andy!!

Cool uberpixie that looks like it fits my needs exactly... it says I can even remove all those HDD brackets I don't need. And it's pretty cheap too.

Serephucus I'll edit my OP with that format once I am actually starting to think about components, currently I'm more concerned with the other issues I raised which is why I used the wall of text format :P And I assume a 512GB SSD drive will be far more expensive than 2 256GB one? I'm planning to go with the latter. People have told me to stay well away from water cooling, especially considering its my first build, is this good advice?

What's the story with the new mid-range nVidia cards coming out this month?

Serephucus

The post I linked to can be used for specific builds, but it's also helpful broadly speaking as well - what types of games you'll play, your budget, your type of monitor, etc. - Also, depending on your budget (the form would help here!) watercooling is definitely an option, and I would never suggest to anyone to stay well away from it. Quite the opposite in fact.

Also, a 512GB SSD is actually slightly cheaper than two 256GB ones. It's about €200 fro a 256GB one, and €380 for a 512GB.

Andy!!

Good to know. I'll consider a 512 SSD then (even more space saved anyways ) Yeah I am a big gamer, I stated that in the OP, so that's why I'll be looking for a decent graphics card. I'm not sure what my budget will be at the moment, I'll be breaking it down as I go and probably buying only one or two components per month.

Right now I am focussing on what case to get, and what motherboard. Y'know, do it in order :pac: I am pretty set on getting that case linked above, it seems perfect for my needs. If I am going with a third gen i7 and an nVidia, like Asus as a brand and would prefer 4 RAM slots (though that's not a neccesity) what motherboard would people recommend?

Do I need a dedicated sound card and wireless card? Or is that stuff included in on the motherboard? (I'm a real noob when it comes to PC innards :P)

Thanks in Advance.

Andy!!

As far as water cooling goes, I've been given the following advice.

Watercooling systems are for enthusiast PC builders who need them for very specific reasons, not first time builders. Generally people watercool to get entirely silent systems, or to do extreme overclocking, so unless you need to do one of those, don't waste your time and money on it.

I don't mind fan noise and won't be overclocking till the components are very out of date, so I think I'll be sticking with fans tbh.

Anybody know if I'll need a dedicated sound/wireless card, or is that functionality built into motherboards?

Lex_Diamonds

99% of mobos have sound, far fewer have wireless, but they are certainly out there.

U_Fig

i think the bitfenix prodigy is exactly what you need... ncix does a pc based around the prodigy.. see here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcVbFXSlgEc&feature=plcp

an idea of what you can make..

Andy!!

The case seemed very bouncy in that vid but yeah I think it's perfection All those vents, damn. I'm gonna order the case soon and then start thinking about motherboard. Anybody have motherboard recommendations if I like Asus as a dependable brand, plan to use Intel and nVidia, and would preferably have wireless sorted by the card?

Also, btw, why is the HDMI port coming out of the motherboard instead of the graphics card in that vid? Is that always the case? I could have sworn it was always part of the graphics card.

For sound, I think I'm gonna go with a motherboard that has on-board sound, but I may eventually want surround sound, so I'll consider a dedicated sound card then.

U_Fig

Andy!! wrote: »

The case seemed very bouncy in that vid but yeah I think it's perfection All those vents, damn. I'm gonna order the case soon and then start thinking about motherboard. Anybody have motherboard recommendations if I like Asus as a dependable brand, plan to use Intel and nVidia, and would preferably have wireless sorted by the card?

Also, btw, why is the HDMI port coming out of the motherboard instead of the graphics card in that vid? Is that always the case? I could have sworn it was always part of the graphics card.

For sound, I think I'm gonna go with a motherboard that has on-board sound, but I may eventually want surround sound, so I'll consider a dedicated sound card then.

Ok first things first..if you are planning on going with a mini itx motherboard then you will only get 1 Pcie slot (which will be used by GPU) so the addition of a sound card or internal wireless card will not be possible unless the wifi card is mini pci like in laptops and the mobo has one spare slot..

These are the 2 I can see that'll fit ur needs

Asus: http://www1.hardwareversand.de/DDR3/60017/ASUS+P8Z77-I+Deluxe%2C+Sockel+1155%2C+ITX.article

Asrock:
http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?adp=0&aid=59318&agid=1605&apop=3

Both these are good makes..Asrock currently offers the best bang for buck z77 motherboards.

Andy!!

So, if I go for that smaller case, I'll need to get a special, small motherboard?

U_Fig

Andy!! wrote: »

So, if I go for that smaller case, I'll need to get a special, small motherboard?

there are basically 3 main sizes of motherboard.. (there are loads more but not as common)

Standard ATX
Micro ATX
Mini ITX

the bitfenix prodigy only takes Mini ITX..

Serephucus

Yes. You'll need an mITX board. There's nothing inherently bad about them or anything, they're just smaller, so you don't have as many expandability options. As UFig has already mentioned, they only have one PCIe slot, meaning that you'll be limited to only one graphics card, as well as onboard sound. You'll be able to get an mini PCIe WiFi card.

Other point: I'd be going with ASRock boards. They have the best track record in terms of reliability with recent platforms.

Andy!!

Really excellent guys, I'd be in trouble without you! Buying full size motherboards all over the gaff

I've never been interested in running SLI so I don't mind the one graphics card restriction, and on-board sound, and if I can fit in a wireless card on the motherboard it's all good. The two RAM slots isn't ideal, but I guess I'll just have to shell out of two 8GB sticks ( I do a lot of 3D work, simulation etc.)

Am I restricted in any other way by going with a mini ITX? Any kind, or spec of RAM that isn't compatible? Any graphics cards? Anybody know much about the new nVidia cards that are supposed to be coming out soon?

And also I've pretty much decided to stick with a 256GB SSD for my OS, steam games and other programs I use, and maybe a terabyte for other stuff. 512GB SSD's are still really expensive... The price of a new console in some cases!

Andy!!

*Double post mod delete*

ahnowbrowncow

Serephucus wrote: »

Other point: I'd be going with ASRock boards. They have the best track record in terms of reliability with recent platforms.

Really? That's a pretty big statement, any facts to back it up?

U_Fig

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

Serephucus wrote: »

Other point: I'd be going with ASRock boards. They have the best track record in terms of reliability with recent platforms.

Really? That's a pretty big statement, any facts to back it up?

Almost every review i've seen says this..

Also the 2 motherboards i posted have built in wifi so you won't need a seperate card..

Andy!!

U_Fig wrote: »

Also the 2 motherboards i posted have built in wifi so you won't need a seperate card..

A big plus to have wifi thanks for your suggestions. Anyone else have different feelings on motherboard brand? They sure look fine to me, unfortunately I think I am restricted to http://www.tigerdirect.com/ for now, they are the only ones I have heard that ship to Korea... and they don't have many AS Rock products.

Graphics card wise, I did a little research this morning, and I watched some videos of the 660 Ti. I think I'm in love :P Would be great if I could get somewhere that bundles Borderlands 2 with it too (and that ships to S.K. of course). Whats the difference between the 2GB and 3GB versions? There is only $30 difference, why would you not just shell out the extra 30...

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3818192

www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=003818196

Andy!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NymK8ix0wPQ

This thing is bloody perfect :pac: Nerd Boner! During the review he spoke about being cautious about what size PSU to go for. What size PSU would you recommend for this build, and what kind of wattage should I be looking at? I'm looking at going for a 2/3GB 660ti, i7, Blu-Ray optical drive, a 256 SSD to start, 16GB RAM and the two stock fans at front and back, and probably two more at the top. And preferrably I would like to go with a modular solution, bit neater innit.
He's completely right about the placement of the fan on the front though. The only weakness of the chassis in my opinion, scratching my head over that one.

Also, I have a stupid question. I have a netbook, and it has Windows 7 on it. Will I have to buy a licence for Windows 7, or can I use the one provided with my netbook? Is the licence code likely to be on my netbook box or documentation anywhere?

ahnowbrowncow

U_Fig wrote: »

Almost every review i've seen says this..

Also the 2 motherboards i posted have built in wifi so you won't need a seperate card..

Well then it should be pretty easy for you to provide lots of links showing how much more reliable asrock are then

Lex_Diamonds

I read a review which said you'd need a PSU with a 140mm fan or smaller if you were going for a Prodigy case.

Also, I would have thought Korea would be the best place ever for on street PC shopping no?

Andy!!

Lex_Diamonds wrote: »

Also, I would have thought Korea would be the best place ever for on street PC shopping no?

I'm a little unfamiliar with Seoul still Once I find out where the nerd havens are I'll check em out for sure I might ask other Korean tech-heads where they would shop. There's a fair bit of grey-market activity too which I would avoid, I will probably end up buying a PSU locally, the two fans up top, and maybe RAM, but I would be hesitant to purchase any other parts here.

Cheers for that tip on the PSU, I'll certainly read up on that. Are PSU's with fans common? Especially small PSU's? What wattage do you think I will need with the parts I have speculated on?

Lex_Diamonds

I've never seen a standard PSU for sale without a fan. Probably some low power profile PCs out there that might not have fans, but you'll be wanting the spinny little suckers, especially during those hot Korean summers....

Wattage wise, jeez, I guess 450 would probably be grand due to the fact you are going down the itx route. Maybe play it safe and get 500.

Andy!!

Ah cool so they regularly come with fans.

OK, I've got the case locked down (choice wise), I'd like to get a firm choice on an ITX mobo next. So far I have one vote for Asus and one for AS Rock. Which do people consider to be better, or is there no real difference at the end of the day? I would want it to have wireless, decent on-board sound, and be generally feature rich, and be able to run a 3rd gen i7, 16 RAM, and a 660ti.

BTW, why do some sites advertise a 3GB 660ti? Doesn't it come exclusively in the 2GB flavour? Also, I'm inclined to go with a first party build, but would people recommend a third party 660ti, for things like extra ventilation?

Also how do I go about using that script for putting a list together?

EDIT: Hmm, I love Asus as much as the next guy, but this scares me off going with them for a mobo... http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/294920-31-what-motherboard-brand And that thread also states AS Rock are a subsidiary of Asus... hmm.

Lex_Diamonds

On my recent build quest, the only 660ti I could find with 3gigs of RAM is made by EVGA. 3gigs seems to be more common on one of the higher spec ATI cards, the name of which escapes me, 79xx.

superneat

Andy!! wrote: »

I'd like to get a firm choice on an ITX mobo next. Which do people consider to be better, or is there no real difference at the end of the day?

There are two very different boards to consider if you are going with the Prodigy.

My vote goes to the ASRock Z77 itx because i have used their H77 mATX board currently the H77 itx, and the boot times are amazing. Twice as fast, literally, when using an ssd, compared to the Asus Z77 itx.

I'm using the ASRock at the moment, largely due to the aesthetics.. white prodigy, black motherboard, white fans and cables. The Asus didn't fit into my color scheme, but they have very similar features.

I'd say if you were overclocking then the Asus is the superior board. It has an added riser/daughter board just for extra circuitry regarding power phases that will net you better overclocks.

The biggest concern you will have with either of these boards, as i had, will be your choice of cpu cooler, especially with the ASRock!! Compatibility with a lot of the more popular coolers is not possible (without mods or incorrect positioning) due to the PCIe slot being so close to the cpu socket. Also the space between the PSU cage and the underside of the motherboard is fairly small, so very thick mounting plates would be a problem.
The ASRock actually has a mSATA slot under the board and stupidly placed diodes that prevent certain backplates from fitting without mods and some that you just can't use.
If you are happy with the stock cooler then that point is moot.

As for the PSU size for the Prodigy, anything under 150mm will fit. I have a 160mm fully modular PSU that just fits, a partially modular PSU, ie., one that is unable to unplug the large ATX 24pin connector, will have great difficulty in fitting in.

Any other questions regarding the prodigy or cooler choices let me know and i'll fill you in.

Andy!!

SWEEEEEEET a Prodigy owner. Thanks, very helpful info. So, I'm not that fussed with aesthetics, so you think I should maybe avoid your motherboard purely because of placement issues? I'm also not going to be overclocking for a few years until my new rig starts to fall behind badly, so I wouldn't really need overclocking but hell, might as well have the option. If things are placed in awkward spots that would have an effect on what mobo I choose, this is a first time build for me and I live in a land far far away so I'm not sure returning stuff is going to be a possibility for me, will have to get the parts right first time. Those twice as fast with SSD boot times are very very tempting though... hmm.

What about a windows licence? Will I be able to use the one that came on a netbook I bought a few months back?