Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. [US] ** Spoilers **

humanji

I'm quite surprised that I seem to be the only one who thinks May is more wooden than Ward. She's the only character that I really dislike.

iguana

This show is really not doing it for me. Apart from Coulson and Mae I don't like any of the characters and I'm not sure if it's that I like those two or I just don't hate them, like I do the others. I'm not sure if it's bad writing or acting but Skye and Ward are particularly nauseating. Sadly I suspect it may be the former as the woman who plays Skye was perfectly inoffensive in Nashville. I loved Buffy, Angel, Firefly and Whedon's Astonishing X-Men run but I think the enjoyability of his writing has dipped since he started collaborating so much with his brother and sister-in-law. Dollhouse was great overall but a lot of the episodes were absolute stinkers in ways that the worst Buffy/Angel/Firefly episodes just weren't. I wonder if Whedon is spreading himself too thin and as a result is relying too much on the less talented members of his family.

As for why Coulson is still alive, I don't really care. I've been reading Marvel Comics all my life and since the mid-80s death has been an absolute revolving door (except for Uncle Ben). It's meaningless. Characters die, they come back, sometimes the explanation makes sense, more times it's a retcon cop out. And the explanation makes sense, you can bet your balls that given enough time the story around it will become convoluted to the point of losing that sense.

miralize

Was that better? I think it was better.

pixelburp

Decent episode again, it's showing small signs of improvement; I'm hoping it maintains this upward trajectory, however small and incremental it is. It did make another attempt to hammer home the "Teamwork is great!" message to the audience, but I generally enjoyed events. Still utterly disposable TV, but it's getting there.

And whilst it still has a certain ... cheapness to it, props to Marvel for actually filming on location in Sweden and what appeared to be a convincing enough Belarusian countryside. It definitely helps build a believable world if it seems like they're actually globe-trotting and not just dressing up California.

Equally heartening is that the scriptwriters seem at least vaguely aware of the show's weakest links: the "you're a robot, can you do that?" line aimed at Ward seemed like a nod from them that Ward is a non-entity; considering they're still writing & making the show as it airs, I'm hoping this is their first attempt to address this. Skye's still annoying though, ah well.

As for the latest round of winks towards the Coulson mystery, we at least know now that *something* is amiss with him, given that the rogue agent and her x-ray eye spotted something changed about his body (or at least that's how I read it anyway)

Oh and one more thing: if this is indeed a family showed with a leaning towards kids, they have no problem dropping in the odd charred corpse or (this week) a severed arm. The tone can be wildly inconsistent really.

Gbear

Agree it was better again.
Damn your one Skye is lovely. Very lovely.

humanji

pixelburp wrote: »

Oh and one more thing: if this is indeed a family showed with a leaning towards kids, they have no problem dropping in the odd charred corpse or (this week) a severed arm. The tone can be wildly inconsistent really.

The ratings system is bizarre. Things like there being a difference between saying f*ck once and saying it twice can up the rating. It's what happens when a system is devised by morons.

I quite liked this episode. As said, it's a step up. Not a huge step, but a welcome one. There were some great moments, I thought. I really liked the opening sequence and it had a nice little twist at the end. And there seems to be steps being made to breathe life into Wade.

iguana

That was an awful lot better, not fantastic but finally showing some potential.

I think one of the biggest issues with the show is that it's obviously going to be little more than another villain of the week show. We're never going to see any of the major villains pop is as Marvel will be saving them for the films and even if they were to appear there's have to be some reason why the Avengers weren't called in over a group of generic, banal, cookie cutter cops who come across like they've all just walked directly off a gap photo shoot.

I want to like the show but its simply doing nothing interesting or original. The humour is incredibly forced, the writing is poor and it all looks so cheap. A number if people have compared it to an 80s show but to me it's more like one if those shot on VHS single camera sitcoms that didn't last past the 6th episode. There us potential there but for it to be fully realised then you'd have to kill off many of the main characters and seriously up the quality of the writing, both dialogue and the weekly plots.

Bacchus

Deleted User wrote: »

I think one of the biggest issues with the show is that it's obviously going to be little more than another villain of the week show. We're never going to see any of the major villains pop is as Marvel will be saving them for the films and even if they were to appear there's have to be some reason why the Avengers weren't called in over a group of generic, banal, cookie cutter cops who come across like they've all just walked directly off a gap photo shoot.

I have to disagree with the bit I highlighted in bold. We're 4 episodes in and two potential major plot lines have been seeded already. I'm referring to
1) Graviton (a major Marvel villain btw) and
2) This shadow organisation. They were hinted at in the pilot working with alien tech and now this episode again, there is some shadow organisation doing villainy stuff to get their hands on alien tech (upon seeing the diagrams in the nerd room someone asked "is that alien?").

So, there is a very healthy mix of monster of the week and long arc plots going on here. The show has faults, that's just not one of them in my opinion.

The 4th episode was a vast improvement in every department. Everything was just slightly better and the cheese & one liners were slightly toned down. It made for a much more enjoyable experience. Also "Seduce" was probably the funniest moment the show has produced so far

pixelburp

Worth also pointing out that last night's episode was the first time the script didn't ladle on the winks back to the Marvel films; Skye wondering if it ESP was involved, plausible now that alien invasions are the norm, was as good as it got. Otherwise we didn't get any clunky moments of "Hey, remember I was in the Avengers??". One way Agents of SHIELD can succeed is if it grows away from its parent franchise ad forges its own voice. Episode 4 at least give a hint that this was possible...

Mark Hamill

pixelburp wrote: »

Oh and one more thing: if this is indeed a family showed with a leaning towards kids, they have no problem dropping in the odd charred corpse or (this week) a severed arm. The tone can be wildly inconsistent really.

Star Wars Episode 4 had a severed hand and charred corpses and I think that was/is PG (or the equivalent). Ratings are a bit weird.

Bacchus

Bacchus wrote: »

I have to disagree with the bit I highlighted in bold. We're 4 episodes in and two potential major plot lines have been seeded already. I'm referring to
1) Graviton (a major Marvel villain btw) and
2) This shadow organisation. They were hinted at in the pilot working with alien tech and now this episode again, there is some shadow organisation doing villainy stuff to get their hands on alien tech (upon seeing the diagrams in the nerd room someone asked "is that alien?").

So, there is a very healthy mix of monster of the week and long arc plots going on here. The show has faults, that's just not one of them in my opinion.

The 4th episode was a vast improvement in every department. Everything was just slightly better and the cheese & one liners were slightly toned down. It made for a much more enjoyable experience. Also "Seduce" was probably the funniest moment the show has produced so far

We've seen a few small nods toward an overall arc but there's been nothing thus far to hint at it being anything other than tacked on in order to entice people back. Shows such as Elementary and even The Blacklist are all very much case of the weeks show but there's always a sense that there's so much more going and it all feeds into the long running storyline. With Agents it seems like the writers aren't sure how to bring it in and it's very much been a monster of the week mystery and that really doesn't look like it's going to change anytime soon. Now I'm all for a little week to week case solving but not when the whole thing feels like a dated early 90s relic.

iguana

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We've seen a few small nods toward an overall arc but there's been nothing thus far to hint at it being anything other than tacked on in order to entice people back. Shows such as Elementary and even The Blacklist are all very much case of the weeks show but there's always a sense that there's so much more going and it all feeds into the long running storyline. With Agents it seems like the writers aren't sure how to bring it in and it's very much been a monster of the week mystery and that really doesn't look like it's going to change anytime soon. Now I'm all for a little week to week case solving but not when the whole thing feels like a dated early 90s relic.

Whedon's other shows all went for a monster of the week format with an over-arcing season long storyline slowly emerging at the beginning and becoming more important over time. I doubt AoS will be any different.

JP Liz V1

I'm finding Coulson annoying, better as a minor character

iguana

iguana wrote: »

Whedon's other shows all went for a monster of the week format with an over-arcing season long storyline slowly emerging at the beginning and becoming more important over time. I doubt AoS will be any different.

I think people are putting too much emphasis on Whedon and his involvement. From everything I've read or heard it would appear that he's taking a very hands off approach to the show and was all but find with it till the producers and network came to him asking him to rewrite the latest episode. Whedon is deep in preproduction on Avengers 2 and simply doesn't have the time to oversee an ongoing series.

There's been very little in the 4 episodes to date to suggest that there is much of an ongoing story in place. It all feels quite rushed and an after thought, whereas in something like The X-Files or Elementary or Banshee the overall story feels integral to the week to week stories.

I'd love for Agents to develop into something great but on the evidence presented thus far it's simply another poorly made andforgettable weekly waste of 42 minutes.

Kirby

Deleted User wrote: »

I think people are putting too much emphasis on Whedon and his involvement. From everything I've read or heard it would appear that he's taking a very hands off approach to the show and was all but find with it till the producers and network came to him asking him to rewrite the latest episode. Whedon is deep in preproduction on Avengers 2 and simply doesn't have the time to oversee an ongoing series.

There's been very little in the 4 episodes to date to suggest that there is much of an ongoing story in place. It all feels quite rushed and an after thought, whereas in something like The X-Files or Elementary or Banshee the overall story feels integral to the week to week stories.

I'd love for Agents to develop into something great but on the evidence presented thus far it's simply another poorly made andforgettable weekly waste of 42 minutes.

I think you are being overly critical with agents of shield here. It's a new show. You have to give it time. I have issues with it too and I've posted as much but to call it "poorly made" and a waste of 42 minutes is hyperbole. This is a lot better than 90% of the crap on tv.

I feel the same way about your criticism of the newsroom also. If you only watch shows that reach some pinnacle of breaking badness, you will end up watching one show every five years.

Bacchus

Deleted User wrote: »

We've seen a few small nods toward an overall arc but there's been nothing thus far to hint at it being anything other than tacked on in order to entice people back. Shows such as Elementary and even The Blacklist are all very much case of the weeks show but there's always a sense that there's so much more going and it all feeds into the long running storyline. With Agents it seems like the writers aren't sure how to bring it in and it's very much been a monster of the week mystery and that really doesn't look like it's going to change anytime soon. Now I'm all for a little week to week case solving but not when the whole thing feels like a dated early 90s relic.

Deleted User wrote: »

I think people are putting too much emphasis on Whedon and his involvement. From everything I've read or heard it would appear that he's taking a very hands off approach to the show and was all but find with it till the producers and network came to him asking him to rewrite the latest episode. Whedon is deep in preproduction on Avengers 2 and simply doesn't have the time to oversee an ongoing series.

There's been very little in the 4 episodes to date to suggest that there is much of an ongoing story in place. It all feels quite rushed and an after thought, whereas in something like The X-Files or Elementary or Banshee the overall story feels integral to the week to week stories.

I'd love for Agents to develop into something great but on the evidence presented thus far it's simply another poorly made and forgettable weekly waste of 42 minutes.

Again, I have to disagree. The show has teething problems, I'll not argue that, but it is clear as day that the larger arcs are being bedded in these early episodes. 2 out of the first 4 episodes of this new show have hinted at someone pulling strings in the background to get their hands on alien technology. We've also had, in the 3rd episode, a major Marvel villain being born. I don't think that is going to sit on the sidelines. You mention X-Files as something this should aspire to, it wasn't until several seasons in that the whole conspiracy plot took hold there. Most of the X-Files (in particular the early seasons) was "monster of the week" with nothing to do with the overall arc of the show. Give this show the time it deserves to develop it's major arcs. I think they've only just been greenlit beyond 7 episodes for a full season so we should expect more long arcs to emerge.

humanji

Deleted User wrote: »

There's been very little in the 4 episodes to date to suggest that there is much of an ongoing story in place. It all feels quite rushed and an after thought, whereas in something like The X-Files or Elementary or Banshee the overall story feels integral to the week to week stories.

Just to point out, I'm watching Elementary at the moment and after 8 episodes it's been a crime per episode with only a hint about a woman in Holmes' past. That's all. Agents is on episode 4 and has hinted at an anti-SHIELD group, a billionaire villain, a super-villain and a mysterious enemy that they know nothing about.

That's not to excuse any of Agents' faults, but a lack story arcs is not one of them.

rockbeast

High hopes fall the hardest.

Terrible show. If it were a little better then I could compare it to Relic Hunter.

Whedon has as much to do with this as Spielberg had with Terra Nova. I hope he's getting well paid for the flak he's taking.

It could have a chance if it actually knew what demographic it is aiming at...

What a waste.

Staplor

Have to say I'm enjoying it, and wondering if this is what my parents felt like when I made them watch the A-Team or McGyver.

rockbeast

Staplor wrote: »

Have to say I'm enjoying it, and wondering if this is what my parents felt like when I made them watch the A-Team or McGyver.

6 o'clock on a Saturday in the 80's on RTE!

Don't think it's established that age demographic yet though. If it does, that's fine but at the moment I think the general consensus is that people are hoping for it to develop into a Fringe type show?

Staplor

rockbeast wrote: »

6 o'clock on a Saturday in the 80's on RTE!

Don't think it's established that age demographic yet though. If it does, that's fine but at the moment I think the general consensus is that people are hoping for it to develop into a Fringe type show?

Can't see it getting as grown up as Fringe, Chuck would be more my guess.

rockbeast

Staplor wrote: »

Can't see it getting as grown up as Fringe, Chuck would be more my guess.

Chuck would be fine! Think someone earlier said that Baldwin would have been great in this. I agree.

miralize

Possible love interest for May perhaps?

Kirby

Kirby wrote: »

I think you are being overly critical with agents of shield here. It's a new show. You have to give it time. I have issues with it too and I've posted as much but to call it "poorly made" and a waste of 42 minutes is hyperbole. This is a lot better than 90% of the crap on tv.

I feel the same way about your criticism of the newsroom also. If you only watch shows that reach some pinnacle of breaking badness, you will end up watching one show every five years.

I think that if you bothered to any of my reviews of shows you would find that I'm a fan of quite a few shows and judge each one on it's own merits. Don't know where you're getting that I expect Breaking Bad levels of quality.

Agents if S.H.I.E.L.D. is very poorly made. It looks like some 80s relic and really fails to impress in any single area. Visually it's flat and uninspired with it feeling very much like a TV show. Your average episode of It's Always Sunny is more visually pleasing than Agents. To say it's better than 90% of all TV is a little unfair. It may be be better than all that reality TV crap but it pales in comparison to most other dramas airing atm.

Easy to watch it may be but from everything we've seen thus far I don't see Agents being remembered as a great show in the years to come. It looks and feels like something that would have aired alongside the A-Team or MacGuyver.

Bacchus wrote: »

Again, I have to disagree. The show has teething problems, I'll not argue that, but it is clear as day that the larger arcs are being bedded in these early episodes. 2 out of the first 4 episodes of this new show have hinted at someone pulling strings in the background to get their hands on alien technology. We've also had, in the 3rd episode, a major Marvel villain being born. I don't think that is going to sit on the sidelines. You mention X-Files as something this should aspire to, it wasn't until several seasons in that the whole conspiracy plot took hold there. Most of the X-Files (in particular the early seasons) was "monster of the week" with nothing to do with the overall arc of the show. Give this show the time it deserves to develop it's major arcs. I think they've only just been greenlit beyond 7 episodes for a full season so we should expect more long arcs to emerge.

The X-Files overall arc was present from pretty much day one. granted it did go down the monster of the week route rather quickly but it was always there and felt integral to the show. It's what drove Mulder and kept him coming back time after time to an agency that made him a laughing stock. I'd like for Agents to be something special, it has so much potential but 4 episodes in we've seen little to hint at it being anything beyond a trashy 42 minutes that you can switch your brain off and watch.

The Blacklist managed within it's first 42 minutes to set up a much wider story that subsequent episodes have expanded upon. There's a real sense that the writers know exactly where the series is going and how it's going to play out whereas with Agents there's a real "were making it up as we go along" fell.

Episode 4 was by far the best to date but beyond the interesting opening it was very much a by the numbers affair. It could have been an engaging and interesting mystery and there were hints at a little more going on behind the scenes during the whole Ward completing Akela's mission and not being exactly sure of what he was delivering but it just fizzled out and all felt like something thrown together. It seems like the Akela delivery is something that's going to come back later in the series but it all felt tacked on. beyond the cheap ascetically ugly look it's the writing that really hurts the show. The team is supposed to be made up of the best of the best but they're always at least three steps behind the viewer. The scene where they watched the video feed in this weeks episode was atrocious and left me wondering if these people can even tie their own shoe laces. The writing tries far too hard to be clever and unless they bring on some better talent or get Whedon more involved I can't see the show evolving into anything other than easy to watch trash. Hopefully though the recent improvements will see the show take it up a notch and perhaps by January it may actually be a good show rather that simply being barely average.

humanji wrote: »

Just to point out, I'm watching Elementary at the moment and after 8 episodes it's been a crime per episode with only a hint about a woman in Holmes' past. That's all. Agents is on episode 4 and has hinted at an anti-SHIELD group, a billionaire villain, a super-villain and a mysterious enemy that they know nothing about.

That's not to excuse any of Agents' faults, but a lack story arcs is not one of them.

With Elementary the overall arc is Holmes and what drives him. It's all about exploring him as a character, his demons, his past, etc and it's really well handled and far more interesting than simply some crime of villain with a big plan.

rockbeast

Deleted User wrote: »

Hey, if you have a blog please PM link for it. Thanks.

humanji

Deleted User wrote: »

With Elementary the overall arc is Holmes and what drives him. It's all about exploring him as a character, his demons, his past, etc and it's really well handled and far more interesting than simply some crime of villain with a big plan.

In the first 8 episodes they hint at an arc involving his history, but that's about it. It's no different that what's on offer with Agents.

humanji

humanji wrote: »

In the first 8 episodes they hint at an arc involving his history, but that's about it. It's no different that what's on offer with Agents.

In Elementary it feels integral to understanding who Holmes is and understanding him as a character where as in Agents the overall arc just feels tacked on. It's like the writers decided to throw it in because it's expected of them. I'd love to be proven wrong and watch Agents grow into an entertaining, intelligent and well made show but with so much great TV on it's hard to see Agents competing.

humanji

Deleted User wrote: »

In Elementary it feels integral to understanding who Holmes is and understanding him as a character where as in Agents the overall arc just feels tacked on. It's like the writers decided to throw it in because it's expected of them. I'd love to be proven wrong and watch Agents grow into an entertaining, intelligent and well made show but with so much great TV on it's hard to see Agents competing.

I'd say that's all to do with the quality of Elementary compared to Agents. Pretty much every aspect of it (and the other shows you mentioned) are of a far higher quality than Agents. We won't really know until the first set of reveals occur, but we'd be wasting our times expecting a phenomenal change in the quality of the show. At the very least they have a series of storylines that they can follow that fit in with its comic book origins. As has been said, it seems to be improving by small measures and that's about all that can be expected for the moment. It's always possible that they may make huge changes in line with what fans have complained about, but I think we've seen enough shows waste their potential to know that that's unlikely.

Chris_Heilong

This kind of mindless Television really needs to die a death, I have watched all 4 episodes of this now and it has almost no redeeming features, its such a throw back to how crap TV used to be and I absolutely despise one episode one story type of shows, totally soulless.