Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. [US] ** Spoilers **

Agent Coulson

I wonder will they bring out a few characters and have them a LMD's in the real world it would be good to have those characters back even for the first arc of next season with everyone trying to deal with what happened.

FunLover18

David O'Hara, who played Fitz's dad is a fine actor, but unfortunately he starred one of the rare films (The Matchmaker) after which I just cannot take him seriously. I always think 'Oh, it's the lad from The Matchmaker'.

Really strong episode there, I think Fitz is really going to struggle with all the things he did in the framework even though they're not real, the fact that there's a part of him that could do that will haunt him. I'm a bit confused about Phil, he believes Gemma and Skye and he doesn't actually have his memories back is that right?

pixelburp

FunLover18 wrote: »

David O'Hara, who played Fitz's dad is a fine actor, but unfortunately he starred one of the rare films (The Matchmaker) after which I just cannot take him seriously. I always think 'Oh, it's the lad from The Matchmaker'.

Really strong episode there, I think Fitz is really going to struggle with all the things he did in the framework even though they're not real, the fact that there's a part of him that could do that will haunt him. I'm a bit confused about Phil, he believes Gemma and Skye and he doesn't actually have his memories back is that right?

The phrase he used was that he has "fragments"of memories, so presumably thanks to Project TAHITI traces of his life leaked through into the framework, hence he knew Daisy by name when he saw her, as well as his scrap collection. And, I think, why he shouted at May to "snap out of it"; that was perhaps Agent Coulson coming through during crisis, possibly jarring a little of May's own memory and accounted for her sudden change of heart.

CastorTroy

I think Fitz may end up a damaged from this. As if he hasn't had enough mental/brain trauma. I'm sure it was real world Fitz who felt guilty about killing Agnes. Also she was a real person so he killed an innocent person.

Shame about the death but he went the way he would've wanted. I find it hard to believe May wouldn't know about the kids. She's one of the highest ranking officers so should be aware when her men get sent on bag and tags.

Wonder what this Project Looking Glass is. Could it be a way to download virtual people to LMDs?

pjohnson

I really liked Mace (as can be told from previous posts). Hopefully Jemma was wrong and Radcliffe has some kind of backdoor that will allow Mace to return. If not (most likely) he got to be The Patriot and die a hero which is EXACTLY what he wanted. The Framework may have screwed up Daisy, Jemma, Coulson but its a win for Mace.

Penn

CastorTroy wrote: »

I find it hard to believe May wouldn't know about the kids. She's one of the highest ranking officers so should be aware when her men get sent on bag and tags.

Maybe AIDA knows that if May knew about what was happening to the children, her loyalty to Hydra would waiver. Besides, it seemed like May was so deep into Hydra that she was just pure muscle and didn't question orders. That being said, the ending to this episode was f*cking awesome.

FunLover18 wrote: »

David O'Hara, who played Fitz's dad is a fine actor, but unfortunately he starred one of the rare films (The Matchmaker) after which I just cannot take him seriously. I always think 'Oh, it's the lad from The Matchmaker'.

I remember him most from Luther. He is a good actor, but f*ck me he can be hard to understand sometimes. And I say that as someone with Scottish relations.


Anyway, I missed last week's episode so got to watch two episodes back to back last night. It's an incredibly strong show this season (once we got past some of the kinda iffy Ghost Rider stuff). I know being moved to a different timeslot was seen by many as a possible death-knell for the show, and in many ways their lives in the Framework are almost like a swansong for the show with old characters coming back, but it'll be a damn travesty if they don't get another season. They've more than earned it.

jamo2oo9

Great episode but one thing really put me off was how David O' Hara was walking in the lobby with Fitz.

pjohnson wrote: »

I really liked Mace (as can be told from previous posts). Hopefully Jemma was wrong and Radcliffe has some kind of backdoor that will allow Mace to return. If not (most likely) he got to be The Patriot and die a hero which is EXACTLY what he wanted. The Framework may have screwed up Daisy, Jemma, Coulson but its a win for Mace.

There is a backdoor. Radcliffe told Daisy where it is (didn't tell us where) but it was mentioned that it may have safeguards around it.

RobbingBandit

CastorTroy wrote: »

I think Fitz may end up a damaged from this. As if he hasn't had enough mental/brain trauma. I'm sure it was real world Fitz who felt guilty about killing Agnes. Also she was a real person so he killed an innocent person.

Shame about the death but he went the way he would've wanted. I find it hard to believe May wouldn't know about the kids. She's one of the highest ranking officers so should be aware when her men get sent on bag and tags.

Wonder what this Project Looking Glass is. Could it be a way to download virtual people to LMDs?

She was dead in the real world Radcliff had put her into the framework while she was ill and her body in the real world died but her consciousness having been attached to the avatar lived on, I think kids in danger could have triggered Mays link to the real world so that's why she didn't know about the kids being there

RobbingBandit

O'Hara is an evil looking ducker might explain why he was chosen for the role, he is an emotionless monster same as Madame Hydra both being the only ties Fitz has which explains his persona in the framework, daisy and simmons are the only two with no attachment built into their code for being there wonder what one regret was changed for Coulson. Mack has the hope he never had in the real world.

pjohnson

RobbingBandit wrote: »

O'Hara is an evil looking ducker might explain why he was chosen for the role, he is an emotionless monster same as Madame Hydra both being the only ties Fitz has which explains his persona in the framework, daisy and simmons are the only two with no attachment built into their code for being there wonder what one regret was changed for Coulson. Mack has the hope he never had in the real world.

I wonder what happens now Daisy's one regret has been "remade" with May putting her through Terrigenesis. Madame Hydra told Daisy she cant give her her powers so offered her Lincoln instead. If this was due to AIDA's programming then could it be that Daisy by becoming Quake has maybe "broken" her coding? Could this start breaking the Framework with Quake as a "virus" she "remade" her one regret.

Does this make sense to anyone else?

Nervous Wreck

Makes sense but I think Daisy's real regret, unbeknownst to even her, is that Ward was a villain.

pixelburp

Penn wrote: »

I remember him most from Luther. He is a good actor, but f*ck me he can be hard to understand sometimes. And I say that as someone with Scottish relations.

Yeah, I know O'Hara myself from the bazillion minor roles he pops up in, but his accent is so impenetrable sometimes, so I wonder how American audiences coped.

Penn wrote: »

Anyway, I missed last week's episode so got to watch two episodes back to back last night. It's an incredibly strong show this season (once we got past some of the kinda iffy Ghost Rider stuff). I know being moved to a different timeslot was seen by many as a possible death-knell for the show, and in many ways their lives in the Framework are almost like a swansong for the show with old characters coming back, but it'll be a damn travesty if they don't get another season. They've more than earned it.

It feels like Agents of SHIELD has been at deaths door since season 1/2; I vaguely recall tattle about its cancellation even back then. Besides, is the time-slot even that relevant these days, given digital platforms, deferred viewing & foreign markets? Seems strange as the show doesn't feel like one being prepped for pasture, if anything it has never been stronger or more critically praised.

Mitch Connor

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Makes sense but I think Daisy's real regret, unbeknownst to even her, is that Ward was a villain.

i think her fixed regret has to be way further back - in the real world she didn't meet Ward until after she joined Shield. Prior to that she was a hacker, seeking the truth. Being an agent of hydra doesn't fit in with who she was - so a change in Ward shouldn't have the chance to impact her. Logically the regret has to be something that changed her world view from a much younger age.

RobbingBandit

May got a super serum not Terrigenesis it was only temporary, she as far as we know isn't inhuman so terrigen wouldn't work either way, of course in the framework this could be different but doesn't seem to be the case.

Penn

Mitch Connor wrote: »

i think her fixed regret has to be way further back - in the real world she didn't meet Ward until after she joined Shield. Prior to that she was a hacker, seeking the truth. Being an agent of hydra doesn't fit in with who she was - so a change in Ward shouldn't have the chance to impact her. Logically the regret has to be something that changed her world view from a much younger age.

Daisy's regret isn't programmed into the Framework at all. Ward being alive and Daisy being with him are products of the changes that happened to the world based on the fixed regrets of the others who AIDA plugged in to the Framework (most notably May which led to the rise of Hydra, and Coulson not being part of SHIELD).

Daisy essentially hijacked the Daisy created by the programming of the Framework, but unlike the others, neither AIDA nor the Framework fixed her regret. She wouldn't have gotten her powers, presumably would have been convinced to join Hydra for much the same reasons she joined SHIELD, and ended up with Ward due to their natural attraction to each other.

Same with Simmons, the Framework's version of Simmons was killed by Hydra, but when the real Simmons entered the Framework and hijacked the fake Simmons, she was back to life. But the Framework hasn't fixed any of her regrets or whatever because AIDA didn't program her in.

RobbingBandit

Loved coulson asking why looking at Ward was giving him hives.

pjohnson

RobbingBandit wrote: »

May got a super serum not Terrigenesis it was only temporary, she as far as we know isn't inhuman so terrigen wouldn't work either way, of course in the framework this could be different but doesn't seem to be the case.

I think you misunderstood me I meant May shattered the Terrigen crystal to allow Daisy undergo HER Terrigenisis .

pjohnson

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Makes sense but I think Daisy's real regret, unbeknownst to even her, is that Ward was a villain.

I was between it being her Terrigenisis OR Wards reveal. The fact we saw Tripplett made me think it was the Terrigenisis. Tripp died when Daisy and Raina transformed. If Daisy never transformed then Tripp wouldn't die.

pjohnson

Penn wrote: »

Daisy's regret isn't programmed into the Framework at all. Ward being alive and Daisy being with him are products of the changes that happened to the world based on the fixed regrets of the others who AIDA plugged in to the Framework (most notably May which led to the rise of Hydra, and Coulson not being part of SHIELD).

Daisy essentially hijacked the Daisy created by the programming of the Framework, but unlike the others, neither AIDA nor the Framework fixed her regret. She wouldn't have gotten her powers, presumably would have been convinced to join Hydra for much the same reasons she joined SHIELD, and ended up with Ward due to their natural attraction to each other.

Same with Simmons, the Framework's version of Simmons was killed by Hydra, but when the real Simmons entered the Framework and hijacked the fake Simmons, she was back to life. But the Framework hasn't fixed any of her regrets or whatever because AIDA didn't program her in.

Hmm but it appears AIDA does seem to still be actively working the programme. She offered Daisy Lincoln even though he is explicitly "deceased" in the Framework.

Plus it seems odd to have Tripp programmed over Bobbi or Hunter unless the lack of Terrigen actually caused his survival. Mace was responsible for Burrows being in the Framework but Mace had no connection to Ward/Tripp to explain their existance as his Agents. If AIDA had planned to capture Daisy she may have had those simulations ready. Given her obsession with Fitz she never wanted Jemma to exist in the Framework so just killed her.

Penn

pjohnson wrote: »

Hmm but it appears AIDA does seem to still be actively working the programme. She offered Daisy Lincoln even though he is explicitly "deceased" in the Framework.

Plus it seems odd to have Tripp programmed over Bobbi or Hunter unless the lack of Terrigen actually caused his survival. Mace was responsible for Burrows being in the Framework but Mace had no connection to Ward/Tripp to explain their existance as his Agents. If AIDA had planned to capture Daisy she may have had those simulations ready. Given her obsession with Fitz she never wanted Jemma to exist in the Framework so just killed her.

Yes, AIDA is working the Framework from both inside and outside. However, like she said to Daisy, the Framework is what the world would be with just some changes made to fix the main regrets of those she plugged into it (because like her previous simulations with May which May kept fighting out of, fixing those regrets allows the people to accept being plugged into the Framework and accept it as real).

AIDA can't program every little thing about the Framework, otherwise she'd just delete Daisy & Gemma from it. But she's saying if Daisy told her where she and Gemma are in the real world, she could plug Daisy into the Framework and program it so Lincoln is alive (because that wouldn't require a real body, similar to how Mack has his daughter back).

But yes, it's the knock-on effect of May allowing the kid to live (her regret was killing her), which led to Hydra, which led to the destruction of SHIELD, which meant Daisy never joined them and underwent terrigenesis, which meant Tripp never died.

As for Hunter and Bobbi, since they're not plugged into the Framework their Framework counterparts are doing whatever they would have been doing in this new reality. They likely are programmed in somewhere, but they could be dead or just elsewhere.

pjohnson

Penn wrote: »

Yes, AIDA is working the Framework from both inside and outside. However, like she said to Daisy, the Framework is what the world would be with just some changes made to fix the main regrets of those she plugged into it (because like her previous simulations with May which May kept fighting out of, fixing those regrets allows the people to accept being plugged into the Framework and accept it as real).

AIDA can't program every little thing about the Framework, otherwise she'd just delete Daisy & Gemma from it. But she's saying if Daisy told her where she and Gemma are in the real world, she could plug Daisy into the Framework and program it so Lincoln is alive (because that wouldn't require a real body, similar to how Mack has his daughter back).

But yes, it's the knock-on effect of May allowing the kid to live (her regret was killing her), which led to Hydra, which led to the destruction of SHIELD, which meant Daisy never joined them and underwent terrigenesis, which meant Tripp never died.

As for Hunter and Bobbi, since they're not plugged into the Framework their Framework counterparts are doing whatever they would have been doing in this new reality. They likely are programmed in somewhere, but they could be dead or just elsewhere.

Ah yes that actually makes sense I also realise I forgot Tripp actually predates Daisy in joining S.H.I.E.L.D.. He was Garrett's next apprentice before ever Daisy joined. It was Mike Peterson who joined the Academy/S.H.I.E.L.D. after meeting Daisy.

Blazer

Just started watching it from Season 1 again
There's a lot I forgot.

Penn

Blazer wrote: »

Just started watching it from Season 1 again
There's a lot I forgot.

Been tempted to do the same, maybe once this season ends. I'm sure the name on the ID Mace gave Coulson (Flugelman or something) is a reference to something but can't remember what. Might actually google it now.

Edit: Can't find anything on it. Guess it's just a funny name.

Agent Coulson

Another fantastic episode this week Agents of Hydra might just be the best arc AoS have done in all 4 seasons.

Blazer

Penn wrote: »

Been tempted to do the same, maybe once this season ends.

I'm about 10 episodes into season 1. Forgot there's about 22 episodes per season so quite a bit I forgot.
Well worth getting back into.

CiDeRmAn

So,

Grant Ward to be uploaded into a Life Model Decoy and return to the show as a good guy?

Agent Coulson

A nice nod to Bill Paxton as well this week.

Nervous Wreck

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

So,

Grant Ward to be uploaded into a Life Model Decoy and return to the show as a good guy?

I'd really like this to happen.

pixelburp

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

So,

Grant Ward to be uploaded into a Life Model Decoy and return to the show as a good guy?

Feels like the show is quietly teasing this,

and feels like someone othet than Aida will pop out into our world. Tripp feels like another legit possibility, arguably more as he never really got much time to develop. Wards story is done, maybe Tripp could come back

Nervous Wreck

pixelburp wrote: »

Feels like the show is quietly teasing this,

and feels like someone othet than Aida will pop out into our world. Tripp feels like another legit possibility, arguably more as he never really got much time to develop. Wards story is done, maybe Tripp could come back

This would also be fun!