Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. [US] ** Spoilers **

wampyrus77

i find it out watching on friday for episode 2 from channel 4, i dont have abc,

pixelburp

In general, I think many US shows take about a half-season to warm up - for the writers to find a groove and tease out the final form & tone, with the actors also needing space to grow into their roles. Fringe is a good example here, from a similar genre - for the first half of season 1 it was a lightly-warmed up flavour of the X Files. So that in mind, it feels unfair to be overly harsh on Agents of SHIELD; but honestly? It's just stunningly mediocre so far, bordering on the cookie-cutter. Nearly every plot beat and line of dialogue dropped is straight out of TV scriptwriting 101 - specifically in this case checking off the 2nd episode / first mission tropes - and while the Marvel movies were no hotbed of originality, it's disappointing the show seems like it's rigorously obeying the TV ensemble format to a fault (so far!).

As for the episode itself: while Coulson continues to be the strongest character, followed closely perhaps by 'The Cavalry', Ward and Skye are just horrible and it's especially galling as they're clearly being set up as the alpha-male / glamour female lead, with an option on a romance . Or they would if there was any chemistry at all; Ward himself is a personality vacuum (though again, it's too early to tell if that's the script or the actor's fault), and Skye constantly looks like she walked off a photoshoot for Gap; the script wants us to think she's an underground, rebellious hacker type (with cringe-inducing 'fight the power' dialogue to boot), yet the person onscreen is basically a glamour model, lipgloss & perfectly tussled hair at all times.

I've watched worse this year for sure (Dexter, front and centre the most godawful high-profile US drama by far), but Agents... is so lacking in a unique spark it's hard to see where it might go, or how it might sustain interest over a full season.

As for the 'What is Coulson' question, well once again we get the "it's a magical place" line thrown in; it's already hard not to imagine this is a pretty big clue as to what Coulson is. We know anyway he can't be an android, having seen him bleed and scar from this episode, so I'm guessing it's gotta be something Asgardian?

Mark Hamill

Anybody else think Coulson ... knows? (Whatever it was that happened to bring him back, I mean) And more importantly, is not happy about it?

There is potential, IMO, that Coulson chose his team because he wasn't happy with what happened to him and he wants people he can trust if SHIELD finds out and decides to act against him. Hence his team is made up of young, new agents (without especially strong ties to SHIELD), the hacker girl (who it looks like is working with secret with someone on the outside - it wouldn't surprise me if Coulson knows about this or is the person she is in contact with) and Melinda May (an older agent, but seems very unhappy about fighting - possibly something happened in her past that makes her resent her combat experience with SHIELD or SHIELD itself - Coulson might think she will be an ally if the **** hits the fan).

They could go mad with this in the long run - have it that Fury knows that Coulson knows, but wants him to do this so that there is an semi-external team ready to act against SHIELD if the need arises (if SHIELD turns evil). Hell, they could do a Secret Invasion storyline to justify it all (AFAIK Marvel don't have the rights to the Skrulls in the movies, but maybe TV is different? They could always use the Chitauri again, if they needed to).

wampyrus77

if was he was Asgardian then he would have super human strength, godlike powers and immortality, Asgard is home of norse gods in mythology, no Coulson dosnt have any those qualities, he is a clone because real Coulson died in far back

expectationlost

ScumLord wrote: »

Essentially yes, While adults watch these shows (I enjoy watching Spiderman at the weekend) it's aimed at children and restricted in what it can show and of course the makers know children will accept just about anything put in front of them.

its on at 8 but all they talk about is the 18 - 45 demo

stiffler123

Melinda May and Coulson are the only interesting characters. The second episode was a step down from the first too. Not a fan of the hacker chick and risk assesment guy at all, early days though.

CastorTroy

Mark Hamill wrote: »

They could go mad with this in the long run - have it that Fury knows that Coulson knows, but wants him to do this so that there is an semi-external team ready to act against SHIELD if the need arises (if SHIELD turns evil). Hell, they could do a Secret Invasion storyline to justify it all (AFAIK Marvel don't have the rights to the Skrulls in the movies, but maybe TV is different? They could always use the Chitauri again, if they needed to).

I assume they don't have the movie skrull rights because they're Faantastic 4 characters?
Was actually wondering something along those lines: Who do they have the rights to? Since I know Disney channel show Ultimate Spiderman, does that mean they have tv rights and Spidey could technically show up in this series?
And for other characters like FF, X Men and using the "mutants" term. Can they use them on tv?

Patty O Furniture

Liked the 2nd ep, its a long way to go yet, the 2 scientists will take longer!

Maybe they should get a room

When Coulson said he took a hit

he replied back to Skye saying it was shot-ish, he had said An Asgardian stabbed him thru the heart with his sceptre, more like sayin it was nothing!

before mentioning that magical place, for some reason i cant recall :P

AlmightyCushion

Coulson must be a clone or has been resurrected somehow and he knows it. About a half hour in Reyes mentions the car and the agents and says he's having a mid-life crisis. Coulsen then mutters something like 'more of an afterlife thing actually'.

As for the show, it's a good premise but poorly implemented so far. The characters are mostly crap. Fitz and Simmons just get on my nerves the moment they start talking. The whole team (apart from Coulson and May) act like idiotic children fighting and bickering. It's insane to think these people are supposed to be respected in their field when they have the maturity of a 6 year old. Coulson and May are good, and work well together. Coulson actually reminds me of Jack O'Neill in Stargate a bit. Although, I think he needs to be a bit more serious at times. The need to strike a good balance with his light hearted and jovial side.

The scene with Ward and May talking about Skye becoming an agent was horrible to watch. The dialogue was just desperate.

I just want to point out, for anyone that missed it, but they started to act as a team and less as individuals in this episode. Don't blame yourself if you did miss it as it was done very subtly and not rammed in your face and spelled out for the audience. 'You don't have to come up with the whole idea, just a part of it. *looks around at team*'. Coulson: 'Whose idea was it to blow a hole in the plane?' Ward: 'It was everyone's idea.'

Why did Reyes and the Peruvian's even stop to talk to Coulson. Why didn't they just shoot them, they had them surrounded and out gunned. Why wait until you get on the plane to enact your evil plan?

Bacchus

Ok, that was pretty stupid. I enjoyed the pilot for what it was but the 2nd episode was just plain awful. Cheese overload. I can't think of anything redeeming about it... some of the one-liners were decent but in general, the writing was total cringe. I'm not sure, but I think this is what the show is aiming for... witty one-liners, stereotypical characters, attractive cast who are never really in danger & nods to the movie universe to keep the audience hooked (reference to Hydra, Thor's hammer & the cameo at the end). It'll make them bucket loads of money but I'm beginning to think they dropped the ball on this one.

TheIrishGrover

I can't understand all the hate for this show.

not everything has to be bleak and grim. not everything has to be Breaking Bad or Game of Thrones. It's not The Dark Knight - the TV series (Fox is about to greenlight that and immediately cancel it).

It's light enough without being too light. It's a bit of fun. Perfectly in keeping with the tone of the associated movies. We are only 2 episodes in. Sure there are faults (Not overly gone on the tech twins. Think they skewed their tone a little too young) but it's early days yet. The story arc has not kicked in yet (Whedon loves his arcs and God knows so does Marvel).

I have a feeling that it will soon get quite a bit more serious in tone once the Coulson, Mae, Rising Tide stories start to progress further.


Looking forward to seeing their Coulson solution: Tahiti, it's a magical place.....

Bacchus

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

I can't understand all the hate for this show.

not everything has to be bleak and grim. not everything has to be Breaking Bad or Game of Thrones. It's not The Dark Knight - the TV series (Fox is about to greenlight that and immediately cancel it).

...

If you see my post in relation to the pilot, I'm on the same side of the fence as you. I found it to be refreshing to see a light-hearted action/adventure show with Weedon's trademark wit. However, that 2nd episode was downright stupid. Doing a light, fun show in a universe where there are superheroes is fine, but it can still be smart and have substance.

The closest I can think of what this show should have been (IMO) is Fringe with added humour and more license to go beyond "fringe science" (i.e. there are aliens, magic and superheroes in this world). Instead, it's quickly beginning to feel like a kids show with a big budget. I'll give it a few more episodes but I think the bar has been set for the show already and it's going to maintain that.

pixelburp

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

I can't understand all the hate for this show.

not everything has to be bleak and grim. not everything has to be Breaking Bad or Game of Thrones. It's not The Dark Knight - the TV series (Fox is about to greenlight that and immediately cancel it).

Who mentioned 'bleak and grim'? Maybe I missed something, but this comment appeared after episode 1 aired too and I hope it doesn't get trotted out every time somebody criticises the show; nobody's mentioning Breaking Bad or GoT except you.

There has been no suggestion that criticisms are borne from a desire for something darker or grittier; episode 2 could have been drenched in shadow and death from start to finish, but the dialogue and plot would still have been utterly execrable. Jesus, that last act when the team discovered they work best together (yay!) was so awful I actually wondered if it was all some sort of postmodern satire.

"Light & Breezy" is not mutually exclusive with "Intelligently Written"

expectationlost

pixelburp wrote: »

Jesus, that last act when the team discovered they work best together (yay!) was so awful I actually wondered if it was all some sort of postmodern satire.

i kinda think it was, or it was trying be both, ie they've told us to write a team getting together ep so that's what we're going to do.

wes

Mark Hamill wrote: »

(AFAIK Marvel don't have the rights to the Skrulls in the movies, but maybe TV is different? They could always use the Chitauri again, if they needed to).

Potential spoilers from the comics:

The Chitauri in the comics were Skrulls, they broke away from the main Skrulls. They could shape shift in the comics as well.

humanji

Haven't seen the second episode yet, but was there a different writer? Was Whedon only involved in the first?

wes

humanji wrote: »

Haven't seen the second episode yet, but was there a different writer? Was Whedon only involved in the first?

Yeah, he was only on the first, and is executive producer from now on. He may come back down the line, but I doubt it, as he is probably busy with Avengers 2.

TheIrishGrover

Ah no, all I meant was that I hope people aren't being put off because it's not aimed at an adult audience exclusively. Just a few posts back I see people believe it's aimed at 10 year-olds. I just see it as family entertainment.

I will admit though, you are right. Some of the dialogue is a bit cringe-worthy (The whole 1% teamwork thing was naff).

connemara man

I like it, It could be better though don't get me wrong, reduce the cheese factor a notch, start to give the characters a bit of depth that their acting ability can handle, and add a bit of subtlety to the fore shadowing of events.

but if it stays as it is I'll sit back and enjoy the light entertainment

ScumLord

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

Ah no, all I meant was that I hope people aren't being put off because it's not aimed at an adult audience exclusively.

It's not so much that it's exclusively for kids but I think a sizeable proportion of the audience would be kids and with that in mind there has to be restrictions on the content. I don't mind that as such, like I said I watch Ultimate spider man at the weekend to chill out and I have no problem with any of the premises or restrictions there.

It could be just the fact that spiderman is a cartoon and your more accepting, the problem with live action is that the comic/cartoon world doesn't quite work and you have to build a believable world for those characters to exist in. I don't think they've done that here, they're on the fence between real and comic and it's just not working for me.

evil_seed

It's a comic book brought to life IMO and does not take itself one bit serious. Brain candy and I'll stay watching it while I enjoy it

ScumLord

evil_seed wrote: »

It's a comic book brought to life IMO and does not take itself one bit serious. Brain candy and I'll stay watching it while I enjoy it

The thing is though the comics and cartoons do take themselves seriously up to a point. I've noticed that Spiderman is all about promoting friends and being nice to people. They do have an agenda to a certain extent, they are trying to pass on morals to children. This live action show is just cashing in.

brevity

Hearing "Grrr Arrgg" brings back some memories

wampyrus77

marvel invent Skrulls, they are alien race and enemies of fantastic 4 and where you think super Skrull came from was a skrull with alls powers with of fantastic 4.

http://marvel.com/universe/Skrulls

skrulls have in marvel comics since 1962, so of course they have rights skrulls

How involved was Whedon in Buffy/Angel? As good as Firefly was, those are still his standout shows for me. Would it be about the same amount as he is in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D?

humanji

I think Whedon had a very active role in the writing of Angel & Buffy. He didn't write the scripts, but I think he was always part of the team creating the story arcs.

Magill

Second episode was pretty terrible, just felt really cheap or something. The first episode was decent, hopefully the next one isn't as cheesy.

Kirby

I think the shows suffers a little from the timeslot. 8pm is family hour and i'm getting a very "Terra Nova" feel from this....if anyone else remembers that awful dinosaur show from last year.

If a team of highly trained operatives board your plane, you kill them. You don't show restraint. Ward and May knocking those guys out instead of killing them kind of pulls you out of the show. This Saturday morning cartoon stuff of "accidental deaths" where the good guys never actually kill anyone and the bad guys accidentally kill themselves is juvenile.

The Avengers got away with this "nobody in new York dies" thing because they shot it cleverly and because to be fair, it was a family movie. They can do anything the want with this because it's a tv show and I'm not the only one longing for a more adult show akin to what Whedon did with Firefly. I hope next season it's moved to 9 or 10 o clock and we get treated to a more adult show and less teeny bopper antics.

To be clear, nobody is saying it has to be BSG or the dark knight. This is comic book cheese. But intelligent, adult comic book cheese is what I feel the audience really wants. Not "Barney and shield friends" or "90210 shield edition."

humanji

Kirby wrote: »

I think the shows suffers a little from the timeslot. 8pm is family hour and i'm getting a very "Terra Nova" feel from this....if anyone else remembers that awful dinosaur show from last year.

If a team of highly trained operatives board your plane, you kill them. You don't show restraint. Ward and May knocking those guys out instead of killing them kind of pulls you out of the show. This Saturday morning cartoon stuff of "accidental deaths" where the good guys never actually kill anyone and the bad guys accidentally kill themselves is juvenile.

The Avengers got away with this "nobody in new York dies" thing because they shot it cleverly and because to be fair, it was a family movie. They can do anything the want with this because it's a tv show and I'm not the only one longing for a more adult show akin to what Whedon did with Firefly. I hope next season it's moved to 9 or 10 o clock and we get treated to a more adult show and less teeny bopper antics.

To be clear, nobody is saying it has to be BSG or the dark knight. This is comic book cheese. But intelligent, adult comic book cheese is what I feel the audience really wants. Not "Barney and shield friends" or "90210 shield edition."

It's simply not going to be moved or made more serious. It's designed to be reasonably child friendly, as that's the market they want to capture (making life long comic readers). You compared it to Terra Nova, but there are similar 8pm slot style shows that did well. The one I compared this to was A Town Called Eureka. It's the same formula for both shows, both plot structure wise and the humour/serious ratio.

If they managed to tighten up the show over the next few episodes it might work out fine. It'll be a gamble as to whether or not it survives until another season, but if it does, then we'll hopefully see the quality jump up as it often does with these show.

And there's always Gotham for a serious show, although it remains to be seen what comes of that development.

DubTony

I think every one is expecting too much from this show. It's typical family entertainment, and it's the only thing around that I watch with the kids.
I love how it doesn't take itself at all seriously. I grew up in the 70's when silly stuff like this was what we watched.
Think Knight Rider, Six Million Dollar Man, and later The A-Team and Airwolf. There's a place for everything.
As for the acting feeling a bit forced? Well, if anyone can remember (or is old enough to remember) the first few episodes of Star Trek: TNG, they'll be well aware of how a group of actors can be thrown together and eventually make it work.

Somebody commented negatively on the flying car? But that plane is somehow OK? Come on folks. It's based on comic books with flying men in metal suits, and a Super Soldier with an impenetrable shield.

How serious can it be? Take it for what it is and enjoy the kitsch.