False alarms HKC Point ID Sensors

stoneyxox

altor wrote: »

stoneyxox wrote: »

yes i have access as i installed myself. what does it involve, does the quickbridge just turn off the one zone or the whole panel will i still need to turn off when i enter house. can i turn off two zones with it? where is it mounted in panel or in garage? was just going to put up pir in garage and also cover doors and windows. can i do this?? also can i run two keyfobs with it? your help is much apprieciated altor. thank you.....

Your welcome, always happy to help

The quick bridge gets connected to a free zone. This zone is set up as key, which means when you enroll the keyfob it will turn off the entire system. You can add a second fob to the same zone on the quick bridge. The best place to locate it will be decided by the range you need to turn off the alarm so setting this up on a loose cable is the best way to do this. If you don't have many free zones then using ID sensors will allow you the space to add a lot more devices to the panel as they take up points rather than a zone. You can have 10 point ID devices on zone 5,6,7,8. So one cable to the garage will do the lot.

Any problems let us know.

HI Altor I'm in bother again. My sister has an 8/12 panel. There is couple of pirs around the house wired as normal zone wiring. On zone 5 and 6 I have 17 no, point and I'd sensors. All sensors are identified to the panel. Here's my problem. The pirs are working fine and never activate alarm. One day p53 went off. Another day p 65 went off. I replaced p65 with new sensor. Now today p64 has went off. The sensors are securewatch point and I'd sensors. Have u come across these giving trouble, the alarm is six year old. I changed batt in panel six months ago. Does it sound like a faulty panel or sensors going faulty.


She has always been getting false alarms over the six years?????? Any help appricieated

KoolKid

Have you been getting any comms errors on the ID devices? There were some known issues with them in the past.
I would double check the power going to all devices & also check the connections on the comms lines. To get false alarms on multiple devices in such a short period is not right.

altor

stoneyxox wrote: »

HI Altor I'm in bother again. My sister has an 8/12 panel. There is couple of pirs around the house wired as normal zone wiring. On zone 5 and 6 I have 17 no, point and I'd sensors. All sensors are identified to the panel. Here's my problem. The pirs are working fine and never activate alarm. One day p53 went off. Another day p 65 went off. I replaced p65 with new sensor. Now today p64 has went off. The sensors are securewatch point and I'd sensors. Have u come across these giving trouble, the alarm is six year old. I changed batt in panel six months ago. Does it sound like a faulty panel or sensors going faulty.


She has always been getting false alarms over the six years?????? Any help appricieated

Hi stoneyxox,

I have hundreds installed over the years and very rarely have any issues with them. I would check the sensor heads on them with a meter to determine if there is any faults with the heads themselves plus make sure the arrow on the head is pointing up. The amount of times I have being out to alarms that have being giving trouble to find heads nearly sideways on the system. Since you have the engineer code you could down power the alarm and the ID units and re ID them back on the system. See if any faults pop up again with them.

stoneyxox

altor wrote: »

stoneyxox wrote: »

HI Altor I'm in bother again. My sister has an 8/12 panel. There is couple of pirs around the house wired as normal zone wiring. On zone 5 and 6 I have 17 no, point and I'd sensors. All sensors are identified to the panel. Here's my problem. The pirs are working fine and never activate alarm. One day p53 went off. Another day p 65 went off. I replaced p65 with new sensor. Now today p64 has went off. The sensors are securewatch point and I'd sensors. Have u come across these giving trouble, the alarm is six year old. I changed batt in panel six months ago. Does it sound like a faulty panel or sensors going faulty.


She has always been getting false alarms over the six years?????? Any help appricieated

Hi stoneyxox,

I have hundreds installed over the years and very rarely have any issues with them. I would check the sensor heads on them with a meter to determine if there is any faults with the heads themselves plus make sure the arrow on the head is pointing up. The amount of times I have being out to alarms that have being giving trouble to find heads nearly sideways on the system. Since you have the engineer code you could down power the alarm and the ID units and re ID them back on the system. See if any faults pop up again with them.

I defaulted panel as I didn't have access before I looked at it for her. I re identified everything and when I did that I checked all connections and arrows. I'm baffled by it. Like it on two different zones I'm getting alarms. Starting to think maybe it a panel fault. She always had this problem from day one. And it still happening after I reprogrammed everything. It would be costly to replace all sensors and find out then it a panel. But then the pirs are perfect

altor

stoneyxox wrote: »

I defaulted panel as I didn't have access before I looked at it for her. I re identified everything and when I did that I checked all connections and arrows. I'm baffled by it. Like it on two different zones I'm getting alarms. Starting to think maybe it a panel fault. She always had this problem from day one. And it still happening after I reprogrammed everything. It would be costly to replace all sensors and find out then it a panel. But then the pirs are perfect

Strange one alright. It could be a number of things, I would not suspect the control panel without testing the sensors. What is the gross and pulse settings on these sensors? Can you double up the data core going to the control panel on these sensors to see if that helps. In the logs, what is the alarm description?

KoolKid

You could check the resistance on each device to see if its faulty.
Some information in post 9 in this thread.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056655452
although as these are ID sensors testing them individually may be better .
Are there any standard devices wired into the ID sensors?
If so check the resistance there also. I still think due to the number of devices false alarming there may be another issue. Another option would be to switch the devices that are false alarming to a different location & see if the problem moves or not.

stoneyxox

altor wrote: »

stoneyxox wrote: »

I defaulted panel as I didn't have access before I looked at it for her. I re identified everything and when I did that I checked all connections and arrows. I'm baffled by it. Like it on two different zones I'm getting alarms. Starting to think maybe it a panel fault. She always had this problem from day one. And it still happening after I reprogrammed everything. It would be costly to replace all sensors and find out then it a panel. But then the pirs are perfect

Strange one alright. It could be a number of things, I would not suspect the control panel without testing the sensors. What is the gross and pulse settings on these sensors? Can you double up the data core going to the control panel on these sensors to see if that helps. In the logs, what is the alarm description?

It logging by text via gsmp dialler as alarm p53, alarm p64, and then today p65. This has all happened in last month or that. I have increased the gross and pulse to six to see if that makes a difference but doesn't. Some windows have double opening so a contact is added wired into point and I'd contact via alarm terminals so wiring up to scratch. I have spare cores alright at the sensors. So what your saying is to double up on the data cores all way back to panel. So at a sensor with two cables I will have four cores going into data terminal??????

KoolKid

Have you measured the voltage at each device to see if there is any drop off?

altor

stoneyxox wrote: »

It logging by text via gsmp dialler as alarm p53, alarm p64, and then today p65. This has all happened in last month or that. I have increased the gross and pulse to six to see if that makes a difference but doesn't. Some windows have double opening so a contact is added wired into point and I'd contact via alarm terminals so wiring up to scratch. I have spare cores alright at the sensors. So what your saying is to double up on the data cores all way back to panel. So at a sensor with two cables I will have four cores going into data terminal??????

Thats correct. Also the issue could be the devices added to the sensors so unless you have a meter to test disconnect and close off the loop in the sensor to eliminate that other device being the problem rather than the point ID device.

stoneyxox

KoolKid wrote: »

You could check the resistance on each device to see if its faulty.
Some information in post 9 in this thread.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056655452
although as these are ID sensors testing them individually may be better .
Are there any standard devices wired into the ID sensors?
If so check the resistance there also. I still think due to the number of devices false alarming there may be another issue. Another option would be to switch the devices that are false alarming to a different location & see if the problem moves or not.

Hi kook kid thanks for your reply. What sort of resistance should I be getting. ? It should be around the same for each sensor. Is there a min or max resistance I should be reading ???

stoneyxox

KoolKid wrote: »

Have you measured the voltage at each device to see if there is any drop off?

No I haven't gone that deep into it. When p65 went off I changed the sensor to a new one. I added and identified it. Then 53 went off and I removed it from system for few days to see and now p64 has gOne off

KoolKid

stoneyxox wrote: »

Hi kook kid thanks for your reply. What sort of resistance should I be getting. ? It should be around the same for each sensor. Is there a min or max resistance I should be reading ???

If testing each head set your meter to 200 ohms. Resistance should be less than 1 ohm . This will jump up as you tap the sensor but it should return back to the original value.

stoneyxox wrote: »

No I haven't gone that deep into it. When p65 went off I changed the sensor to a new one. I added and identified it. Then 53 went off and I removed it from system for few days to see and now p64 has gOne off

Another way to go at this would be just keep removing the devices & see how long it keeps going. The fact its across both 5 & 6 inputs is also worrying.
Still the power could be an issue.

stoneyxox

altor wrote: »

stoneyxox wrote: »

It logging by text via gsmp dialler as alarm p53, alarm p64, and then today p65. This has all happened in last month or that. I have increased the gross and pulse to six to see if that makes a difference but doesn't. Some windows have double opening so a contact is added wired into point and I'd contact via alarm terminals so wiring up to scratch. I have spare cores alright at the sensors. So what your saying is to double up on the data cores all way back to panel. So at a sensor with two cables I will have four cores going into data terminal??????

Thats correct. Also the issue could be the devices added to the sensors so unless you have a meter to test disconnect and close off the loop in the sensor to eliminate that other device being the problem rather than the point ID device.

Tats correct but the windows that are going off only have one opening?

stoneyxox

KoolKid wrote: »

stoneyxox wrote: »

Hi kook kid thanks for your reply. What sort of resistance should I be getting. ? It should be around the same for each sensor. Is there a min or max resistance I should be reading ???

If testing each head set your meter to 200 ohms. Resistance should be less than 1 ohm . This will jump up as you tap the sensor but it should return back to the original value.

stoneyxox wrote: »

No I haven't gone that deep into it. When p65 went off I changed the sensor to a new one. I added and identified it. Then 53 went off and I removed it from system for few days to see and now p64 has gOne off

Another way to go at this would be just keep removing the devices & see how long it keeps going. The fact its across both 5 & 6 inputs is also worrying.
Still the power could be an issue.

It's a small bungalow. No major long runs

KoolKid

I'd still check the voltage going at each device.

Also splitting this into a new thread. Its a bit OT from the original.

stoneyxox

KoolKid wrote: »

I'd still check the voltage going at each device.

Also splitting this into a new thread. Its a bit OT from the original.

When testing the point and I'd sensors do I disconnect from panel and then test at the sensor. Where am I testing between do I remove link across alarm in the sensor and get resistance there??

KoolKid

To check the resistance correctly disconnect the sensor head & connect directly to the meter leads. likewise connect an external wires devices directly to the meter separately .

davebuck

I had an issue last year with ID sensors on zone 5 had different ID sensors setting off the alarm changed a couple put but still the alarms kept coming in.The only way I sorted it out was to take out an ID sensor out of the loop and see if the alarms stopped.The ID sensors were the original ones from HKC after a couple of attempts I found the faulty sensor but the real problem was the alarm would set all the time making finding the faulty sensor a lot harder....

altor

davebuck wrote: »

I had an issue last year with ID sensors on zone 5 had different ID sensors setting off the alarm changed a couple put but still the alarms kept coming in.The only way I sorted it out was to take out an ID sensor out of the loop and see if the alarms stopped.The ID sensors were the original ones from HKC after a couple of attempts I found the faulty sensor but the real problem was the alarm would set all the time making finding the faulty sensor a lot harder....

Did you have engineer access to the alarm. In the logs the point that activates will be logged in there to make fault finding easier.

davebuck

altor wrote: »

Did you have engineer access to the alarm. In the logs the point that activates will be logged in there to make fault finding easier.

Yeah Altor had the engineer's code but a few different sensors from zone 5 were setting off the alarm about 4 in total no pattern to which one was faulty....That was well over a year ago now no issues since I changed the faulty sensor.