L-drivers to get penalty points for driving alone

fifipie_d

Shenshen wrote: »

So, people who get nevours in test situations should just never ever attempt to even take the test, is that what you're saying?

Also, I currently drive accompanied with L plates. I will do the speed limit, and not a kph more. The amount of road rage this enduces in other drivers, and the amount of frighteningly dangerous overtaking I get to experience every day beggars belief. Do you think your suggestion that learner drivers should only drive at 50 kph will make the roads safer?

While I do agree that the situation of people driving without full license, and people driving without license at all needs to be addressed, I also think that the driving skills of those with full licenses here are in dire need of re-assessment.

I have been driving for almost 5 months on a permit and like yourself i am always accompanied. The road rage and bullying i receive every day because of that L plate is unbelievable.
I have completed my 12 lessons and i am taking a few more to make sure i am fully prepared for the test. I have been told by my instructor that i am a very good driver for the time i have had. Even so , when i am doing the limit on a road, i will have drivers up my backside, so close that i can't see the front of their car. I have had several try to undertake me and bully me over. Once again, this happens in area where i am doing almost the limit. The bad hadits that some people have beggar belief. And they have the nerve to call us dangerous drivers! Don't even get me started on indicating and correct postioning (smh)

My boyfriend and i share the car. When he's driving and the L plate is down. His driving experience is noting out of the ordinary but if it's left up while he's behind the wheel the attitudes of drivers around him change. He himself was shocked the first time. He has been driving over 9 years without even 1 minor accident, he is an amazing driver so the only reason we can see that he is treated differently is because if the L plate. Don' get me wrong though, im not blasting or generalising all full licence holders ,i do come across many that are patient with me as a result of the L, like say when i started driving ,if i staled and it took me a few seconds to get going again.

Obviously there are drivers that regardless of an L plate will bully anyone in front if them. I definitely agree that full licence holders should be re-assessed at some stage, bad/dangerous habits developing over time. The new 12 lesson system is fantastic. It scares me to think of the amount of drivers on the roads who have never even had one.

Professey Chin

arodabomb wrote: »

When I was learning, my father was basically the driver, less and less so as I progressed. But on one occasion I had taken a corner a little fast and I nearly hit a parked car (I was only going about 20-30km), but before I had even registered that I needed to brake, my father had his hand on the handbrake ready to stop it if I didn't. The accompanied driver needs to be the driver too!

That really doesnt sound like a good help to me O_o

MagicSean

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

It wont make a difference. Theres no enforcement of anything and people know the Garda numbers arent there to make any kind of dent.
I've driven all around the country at all hours and have gone through a grand total of 4 checkpoints over the last few years with only one looking to see my license (that I didnt have at the time & they didnt ask me to produce it at a garda station. Just let me on my way).
Garda checkpoints are predictable in where theyll turn up and anyone with a bit of sense will know what roads to take to avoid them.

I think you'll find Gardaí will be a lot more willing to give a person a fine and penalty point than they would have been to summons them to court.

GavRedKing

GavRedKing wrote: »

Sometimes its just not possible to have a full license driver in the car with you wherever you go.

For instance if you're going to work/college you cant expect to have a full license driver in the car with you, opposite side of that argument is well you can take the bus or cycle but thats not possible either all of the time.

For every " bad " L plate driver theres as many " bad " full license drivers out there.

I'm not preaching from any horse, I've made mistakes on the road, I think its safe to say everyone has at one stage or another.

While you are learning to drive, you should not be "using" a car at all, you are learning to drive, not going from A to B.

That is the point of the L plates.

Professey Chin

MagicSean wrote: »

I think you'll find Gardaí will be a lot more willing to give a person a fine and penalty point than they would have been to summons them to court.

Doesnt matter if theres very few of them actually out looking to enforce it and those that do can be easily predicted & avoided

Oranage2

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

Doesnt matter if theres very few of them actually out looking to enforce it and those that do can be easily predicted & avoided

The Traffic cops do since they have to hit a quota every month. As for normal cops, they will most likely overlook it but for the best as I would rather them out there catching bad guys then spending all there day filling out paper work.

OldNotWIse

Oranage2 wrote: »

I'm open to be proven wrong but the 'driving slow is more dangerous' in my opinion is a myth.

I think the idea is that if someone is driving very slowly, the people behind them become enraged and will make reckless decisions and speed/pull out/overtake or whatever...but this still means that it is those engaging in said reckless behaviour, and not the slow driver, that are causing the accidents.

I am waiting for my learner permit to arrive, and am insured on my Dad's car from midday today woohoo!

I have to say, maybe I was naiive but I thought when you had learner plates up that other road users wouldnt be so quick to give you a hard time if you were slow to take off etc but I'm told that a learner plate is actually like a red rag to a bull to experienced drivers? Just have to ignore them I guess!

SuperInfinity

summerskin wrote: »

I've never understood why they are allowed to drive over here without a full license. In no other country could you do it.

You get a provisional licence or a learner's permit, then you are allowed to drive on some roads with restrictions until you get a full permit.

In what country on the planet does this not happen and does it not make sense?

"fail their driving test, then driving home from the test" may be a good sound bite in the most superficial way possible (and for use once only), but it makes a lot of sense if they have all these restrictions in place.

RacoonQueen

tbh wrote: »

I'm in India at the moment. I can tell you, you're wrong about that

Yep it's a big myth. Dunno where people get it from.

MagicSean wrote: »

But they will have the knowledge and experience to help the driver if needed. And in some cases can take over as driver if needed.

Not really. Some full licensed drivers are terrible drivers (who is responsible for all the other fatal accidents?) and can give bad advice, don't know the rules of the road, will disagree with what a person may be learning from an instructor...

Everyone knows it's silly that there are so many provisional licensed drivers on our roads. I wonder how many here saying it shouldn't be done, did it themselves? Fact is, if all the people who regularly drive to work/college on provisionals all of a sudden stop driving the income received via petrol and possibly motor tax and insurance if people have no one to drive with them is going to drop quite a lot(the government don't want this). This is not going to be enforced. Driving on a provisional is part of Irish culture, it won't change.

OldNotWIse

fifipie_d wrote: »

I have been driving for almost 5 months on a permit and like yourself i am always accompanied. The road rage and bullying i receive every day because of that L plate is unbelievable.
I have completed my 12 lessons and i am taking a few more to make sure i am fully prepared for the test. I have been told by my instructor that i am a very good driver for the time i have had. Even so , when i am doing the limit on a road, i will have drivers up my backside, so close that i can't see the front of their car. I have had several try to undertake me and bully me over. Once again, this happens in area where im doing almost the limit. The bad hadits that some people have beggar belief. And they have the nerve to call us dangerous drivers! Don't even get me started on indicating and correct postioning (smh)

My boyfriend and i share the car. When he's driving and the L plate is down. His driving experience is noting out of the ordinary but if it's left up while he's behind the wheel the attitudes of drivers around him change. He himself was shocked the first time. He has been driving over 9 years without even 1 minor accident. The only reason we can see that he is treated differently is becase if the L plate.

EEK! Can't wait for the abuse. Suppose best just to ignore them. More to be pitied if they need to pick on learners tbh - we were all learners at some point!

Mr_Roger_Bongos

summerskin wrote: »

It's little wonder that the standard of driving here is so poor.

And by extension, an excuse insurance companies have for keeping your premiums so high.

anncoates

Shenshen wrote: »

Also, it's reasonably safe to cycle in those countries, something I would not dare attempt here.

For two years of college, I cycled nearly a 20-mile round trip to college every day. Then I saved enough money to subsidize a part-time job so I could share a flat closer to college. Students hardly had cars back then, even in TCD. My mate works in a college now and says there is murder over student parking.

I know it sounds a In Mah Day but the fact is that everybody -not only students - in this country has got used to having a car and a great many have got used to driving for years without bothering to take the test.

People can blame the infrastructure and other factors as much as they like but the onus is on people to apply, sit and if necessary, resit the test. Their responsibility: not that of th state or anybody else.

Shenshen

Won't make a difference given that there's barely any enforcement of laws on the road at the moment.

Shenshen wrote: »

Also, it's reasonably safe to cycle in those countries, something I would not dare attempt here.

You're missing out then, this is an amazing country to cycle in.

Shenshen

SuperInfinity wrote: »

You get a provisional licence or a learner's permit, then you are allowed to drive on some roads with restrictions until you get a full permit.

In what country on the planet does this not happen and does it not make sense?

"fail their driving test, then driving home from the test" may be a good sound bite in the most superficial way possible (and for use once only), but it makes a lot of sense if they have all these restrictions in place.

Most European countries will not let you drive anything but a driving school car with the second set of controls, and with a fully qualified instructor by your side, until you actually have the full license.

Professey Chin

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Everyone knows it's silly that there are so many provisional licensed drivers on our roads. I wonder how many here saying it shouldn't be done, did it themselves? Fact is, if all the people who regularly drive to work/college on provisionals all of a sudden stop driving the income received via petrol and possibly motor tax and insurance if people have no one to drive with them is going to drop quite a lot. This is not going to be enforced. Driving on a provisional is part of Irish culture, it won't change.

I can almost guarantee the vast majority have (including myself) but cant be admitting that when sitting high on the internet

Professey Chin

Shenshen wrote: »

Most European countries will not let you drive anything but a driving school car with the second set of controls, and with a fully qualified instructor by your side, until you actually have the full license.

What countries only allow this? And dont have learner drivers driving alone anyway?
Plus a lot of european countries are generally terrible at driving so its not exactly something to hold high

anncoates

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

I can almost guarantee the vast majority have (including myself) but cant be admitting that when sitting high on the internet

I don't think the real issue is driving occasionally unaccompanied when you are making every effort to sit (and re-sit if necessary) the test as soon as possible.

You know as well as I do that there are plenty of people on this thread more than taking their time to become qualified drivers.

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

What countries only allow this? And dont have learner drivers driving alone anyway?
Plus a lot of european countries are generally terrible at driving so its not exactly something to hold high

As far as I know, you're in pretty bad trouble in England if you're nabbed doing it. My wife learned (and sat her test) there.

Plus it's funny how you object to what you see about as a generalization about the strictness of other European driving laws and immediately (in the same post!) weight in with an equally wide generalization about the driving habits of other Europeans.

fifipie_d

EEK! Can't wait for the abuse. Suppose best just to ignore them. More to be pitied if they need to pick on learners tbh - we were all learners at some point![/Quote]

I just ignore them now, well i try. As both my instructor and my sponcer have told me, if you're doing everything correct and they still feel the need to bully then let them. Worry about what you're doing. Their only anoying themselves. Now when someone overtakes me aggressively or tailgates i just smile at them. The instant flutter of anoyance in ther face is terrific. If you let them get to you it will affect your driving so much, did for me at the start. It's tough enough without having to deal with that crap.
Its all worth it though, being able to drive is fantastic. Wish i did it sooner. Best of luck with your motoring

Shenshen

Dónal wrote: »

You're missing out then, this is an amazing country to cycle in.

It's a gorgeous country, no contention there.
But I've seen the way car drivers here drive, and I haven't yet come across a single cycle path outside a city centre... call me chicken, but I don't think it's worth risking my life for.

I used to cycle rather a lot in Germany, where there are cycle paths, and less mental driving in general.

anncoates

Shenshen wrote: »

It's a gorgeous country, no contention there.
But I've seen the way car drivers here drive, and I haven't yet come across a single cycle path outside a city centre... call me chicken, but I don't think it's worth risking my life for.
.

So people co0ntnue driving and don't bother to qualify as drivers because the overall standard of driving is bad in the country.

Hello Ireland.

People are just fishing for excuses not to sit a driving test at this stage.

Professey Chin

anncoates wrote: »

I don't think the real issue is driving occasionally unaccompanied when you are making every effort to sit (and re-sit if necessary) the test as soon as possible.

You know as well as I do that there are plenty of people on this thread more than taking their time to become qualified drivers.

Thread could have fooled me.

As far as I know, you're in pretty bad trouble in England if you're nabbed doing it. My wife learned (and sat her test) there.

Plus it's funny how you object to what you see about as a generalization about the strictness of other European driving laws and immediately (in the same post!) weight in with an equally wide generalization about the driving habits of other Europeans.

UK can be pretty strict but theres no only in school and dual controlled cars until your full license from what I know.
And have you seen european driving? France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece and most of Eastern Europe is lunacy! People give out about here but the driving over there genuinely scares the sh!t out of me

Mr_Roger_Bongos

Mr_Roger_Bongos wrote: »

And by extension, an excuse insurance companies have for keeping your premiums so high.

That's more down to uninsured drivers crashing than anything else.

Professey Chin

Deleted User wrote: »

That's more down to uninsured drivers crashing than anything else.

AFAIK the percentage of premiums that goes into the uninsured fund doesnt have a massive impact on each individual. Pretty sure there was a thread in the Motors forum that showed if you didnt have to pay it youd only save about 50 euro if even

Not that I like paying it anyway -_-

Shenshen

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

What countries only allow this? And dont have learner drivers driving alone anyway?
Plus a lot of european countries are generally terrible at driving so its not exactly something to hold high

France, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, the Netherlands, Italy, Spain... The vast majority of European countries do.
It's only the UK, Ireland and I think Norway that don't.

summerskin

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

anncoates wrote: »

I don't think the real issue is driving occasionally unaccompanied when you are making every effort to sit (and re-sit if necessary) the test as soon as possible.

You know as well as I do that there are plenty of people on this thread more than taking their time to become qualified drivers.

Thread could have fooled me.

As far as I know, you're in pretty bad trouble in England if you're nabbed doing it. My wife learned (and sat her test) there.

Plus it's funny how you object to what you see about as a generalization about the strictness of other European driving laws and immediately (in the same post!) weight in with an equally wide generalization about the driving habits of other Europeans.

UK can be pretty strict but theres no only in school and dual controlled cars until your full license from what I know.
And have you seen european driving? France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece and most of Eastern Europe is lunacy! People give out about here but the driving over there genuinely scares the sh!t out of me

In the UK and every other country I have lived in you can only drive with a provisional license as long as there is a fully qualified driver along side you. You cn under no circumstances drive a car alone as a learner, your insurance will be invalid and if caught you may be liable to a 12 month ban from driving. Simple.

I have driven throughout Europe and the US and never seen driving of the same poor quality i see daily in Ireland.

If you do not have a full license you should never drive a car alone as you are not qualified to do so. What is so hard to understand about that?

The Great Chinholio

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

I can almost guarantee the vast majority have (including myself) but cant be admitting that when sitting high on the internet

I didn't, and any accompanying driver had to have their licence over 2 years per the law, but I am not sure it makes any difference
"you broke the rules so can i i dont care how dangerous it is" isn't really an excuse

Duiske

OldGoat wrote: »

Is a learner driver in a car alone in breach of the insurance agreement and therefore not covered, i.e. driving without insurance?
If they get stopped and pointed for driving alone should they also get pointed/fined for driving without insurance?

Even in an extreme case, such as an unaccompanied learner driver causing an accident while drunk, their insurance company would still pay out on 3rd party claims, so the charge of driving without insurance would not work. There's probably something in the small print of insurance policies that invalidates the policy in cases of driving illegally, but I don't see how a clause such as that could ever hold up in court.

Shenshen

anncoates wrote: »

So people co0ntnue driving and don't bother to qualify as drivers because the overall standard of driving is bad in the country.

Hello Ireland.

People are just fishing for excuses not to sit a driving test at this stage.

Er... what? I'm learning at the moment and have applied for my test, what on earth are you on about?
I simply said that I wouldn't want to cycle here because of the way people drive and I wouldn't feel safe.

Mr_Roger_Bongos

Deleted User wrote: »

That's more down to uninsured drivers crashing than anything else.

Do you have any stats for that?

I'm deriving my opinion from the simple logic that you have more un-qualified drivers on the road than anywhere else in Europe. Less people having passed the test + a suspect driving culture in terms of attitudes to speed and safety = more accidents.

Therefore higher premiums.

Dravokivich

When you see these reports, particularly about males, I can't help but be somewhat miffed at the use of the word "involved," as it always seems to push the blame on them. Whatever happened to the phrase, "was the cause of?"

SocSocPol

anncoates wrote: »

If other countries don't allow people to build lives around cars thst they are not qualified to drive, then neither should we.

Any attempt in this country to make people pass tests asap ends up with loads of people going omg I drive 50 miles to work/college on a provisional and I haven't (bothered my hole to do) passed the test.

Tough.

Life doesn't appear to break down on the countries where it is enforced.

Exactly!
The other point I don't understand is why most all other offences carry two or more penalty points, the offence of driving while unqualified will only carry one penalty point!:mad:

Catari Jaguar

bluewolf wrote: »

If it's that important to you and if you live in the middle of nowhere, then take your driving lessons asap and pass.

Take 6 months to complete the required lessons/ syllabus before you're even allowed to apply, and then you could still be on a 6 - 8 week waiting list...

Mr Benevolent

Meh, I've been driving without a full licence for 18 months now. It's no big deal. 6.6% of road deaths are caused by learner drivers - that means 93.4% of deaths are caused by the infinitely superior drivers with full licences. These stats are meaningless, and the Independent is an utter rag.

PS: Yes, my 2nd test is booked and will be done soon.

getz

Confab wrote: »

Meh, I've been driving without a full licence for 18 months now. It's no big deal. 6.6% of road deaths are caused by learner drivers - that means 93.4% of deaths are caused by the infinitely superior drivers with full licences. These stats are meaningless, and the Independent is an utter rag.

PS: Yes, my 2nd test is booked and will be done soon.

most car accidents are caused by sober drivers,whats your point,drink before you drive

leeomurchu

summerskin wrote: »

I've never understood why they are allowed to drive over here without a full license. In no other country could you do it. You can drive to your driving test, fail it and then drive home. Ridiculous.

It's little wonder that the standard of driving here is so poor.

A large portion of that poor driving could be blamed on all those cowboy licences that were released in the 80's.

Sure it makes perfect sense we've a huge backlog we're never going to clear lets just say they all passed their tests and give them a full licence feckin genius idea :eek:

A lot of the L drivers these days are better than fully qualified drivers although there are the exceptions.

Everybody learned somewhere and i bet even the original OP drove his car around while and L driver unaccompanied Having a fully licensed driver with you as an L driver means jack **** they could be an equally poor driver.

They're going in the right direction with the minimum hours instructed driving but they need to regulate the price better as it could be €600 before you finish this time period :eek:

Maybe concentrate on the speeding uninsured drivers in defective vehicles or ones with foreign plates and dodgy insurance. i drive down the N7 everyday and might see a cop car once in a blue moon but I see gob****es speeding and tail gating on it every 5 mins I'd hazard a guess an say that some of these are oh so highly qualified drivers with a full licence????

Mr Benevolent

getz wrote: »

most car accidents are caused by sober drivers,whats your point,drink before you drive

Exactly. Drink lots of coffee, you'll be more alert and will cause fewer accidents. My point is that those stats are meaningless.

Northclare

If your near Shannon or Ennis in Clare you have an easy run for a driving test.

Especially Shannon because it's an easy drive

humanji

jester77 wrote: »

You should not be allowed to drive on the road unless under the supervision of a qualified instructor. It's crazy that someone with little to no experience can just stick an L on the their car and off they go. It's the wrong place for learning.

I learned to drive in Germany many years ago, Ireland could learn from their system. You register at a school, you have to to a lot of class hours learning about the rules of the road, how a car works, what to do in an emergency situation, etc. You also have to cover a lot of hours driving in different situations under the supervision of the instructor, e.g. driving in the country, driving in the city, driving on the motorway, driving in residential areas, driving at night, etc. The only time you sit in a car is when an instructor is there.

Once the instructor thinks you are competent enough, he will put you forward for the driving test. You have to pass a theory test, you attend a full day first-aid training course, eye-test and once they are successful you do your driving test. The instructor is also in the car on your driving test to take over if something goes wrong.

If you fail, you cycle home and attend more classes.

This is the type of thing that should be done here. The system we have is a joke. You don't need to have ever been in a car to get a provisional and the second you pass your test your able to drive on motorways, which you've never been on before. If you're a learner you have to be accompanied, but that person only needs a license and their level of skill doesn't matter. And to top it off, we don't have the garda numbers to enforce this new law.

It seems to me that Varadkar is just trying to look like he's working hard without actually having to deal with the root of the problem.

leeomurchu

To raise another point about this great idea of L drivers being accompanied.

What's their plan when it comes to motorcycles? :eek:

humanji

leeomurchu wrote: »

To raise another point about this great idea of L drivers being accompanied.

What's their plan when it comes to motorcycles? :eek:

http://www.msc.navy.mil/sealift/2003/March/graphics/sidecar.side.jpg

Dravokivich

leeomurchu wrote: »

To raise another point about this great idea of L drivers being accompanied.

What's their plan when it comes to motorcycles? :eek:

They have regulations in place whereby a new motorcyclist needs a bike to be under 125cc or factory resticted, or the power/weight ratio to be within a set range. And can't get a rating higher until riding for a period of time. Can't remember what it was, think it's 2 years last time I read up/heard about it.

wellboytoo

Dravokivich wrote: »

They have regulations in place whereby a new motorcyclist needs a bike to be under 125cc or factory resticted, or the power/weight ratio to be within a set range. And can't get a rating higher until riding for a period of time. Can't remember what it was, think it's 2 years last time I read up/heard about it.

They also Must do 16 hours of training Before thay can get a licence, all off the public roads under properly trained tutors in safe surroundings.
This is the IBT system, and the stupid RSA rather than follow this system that was patentlly working allowed an irish solution to an Irish problem and brought in EDT which is a stupid system that allows the status quo to prevail.

leeomurchu

Dravokivich wrote: »

They have regulations in place whereby a new motorcyclist needs a bike to be under 125cc or factory resticted, or the power/weight ratio to be within a set range. And can't get a rating higher until riding for a period of time. Can't remember what it was, think it's 2 years last time I read up/heard about it.

I know they have that in place but it's hardly comparable you drift over the white line doing 10Kph and hit a car doin a 100Kph no engine restriction will save you besides the 25kw restricted bikes are still well capable of 100Kph +

The government seem to think that speed is the only factor in road deaths and seem to over look poor driving which can be apportioned to both L drivers and full licence holders

HavingCrack

summerskin wrote: »

I have driven throughout Europe and the US and never seen driving of the same poor quality i see daily in Ireland.

I find this very hard to believe. The standard of driving I've seen in southern Italy, south west France, all of Spain and Portugal and whole swathes of the United States (in particular Massachussetts (know as Massholes), Virginia and New Jersey) is far, far, far worse than anything I have ever seen in Ireland.

There are poor Irish drivers but give me a day driving in Dublin over Rome or Boston any day.

Dravokivich

leeomurchu wrote: »

I know they have that in place but it's hardly comparable you drift over the white line doing 10Kph and hit a car doin a 100Kph no engine restriction will save you besides the 25kw restricted bikes are still well capable of 100Kph +

The government seem to think that speed is the only factor in road deaths and seem to over look poor driving which can be apportioned to both L drivers and full licence holders

If someone drifts along while on the road, regardless of car or bike, the regulations in place to allow someone to use a vehicle on the road are not the problem. Its the individual not taking due care. Its pointless throwing what ifs into such a situation, people who gained full liscenses do as much stupid shíte as those who haven't. So much so, I feel like applauding anyone that uses their indicators correctly.

leeomurchu

wellboytoo wrote: »

They also Must do 16 hours of training Before thay can get a licence, all off the public roads under properly trained tutors in safe surroundings.

You're wrong there mate it's not all off road the last 6 hours are on the public roads which is actually a good thing imagine someone being thought in a car park for 16 hours then let loose on the road apparently competent to drive.

leeomurchu

Dravokivich wrote: »

If someone drifts along while on the road, regardless of car or bike, the regulations in place to allow someone to use a vehicle on the road are not the problem. Its the individual not taking due care. Its pointless throwing what ifs into such a situation, people who gained full liscenses do as much stupid shíte as those who haven't. So much so, I feel like applauding anyone that uses their indicators correctly.

You're echoing what I just said there when I said the government thinks speed is the only factor on road deaths and seem to overlook poor driving.

I do agree about the indicating though I'm beginning to think 2012 rep mobiles no longer come with indicators. :mad:

Kev.OC

leeomurchu wrote: »

To raise another point about this great idea of L drivers being accompanied.

What's their plan when it comes to motorcycles? :eek:

Little bit of useless information for you, 75% of bike accidents involve another vehicle, yet recently it was proposed that holders of full licences for motorbikes would face double penalty points under the new penalty point review.

Cause, y'know, double points will clearly stop all those people who were gifted licences from crashing into us. :rolleyes:


To answer your question, currently to get a bike licence you need to firstly get a provisional. Then you've to do 16 hours of IBT (initial basic training). This is compulsory and you can't get on the road (legally anyway) without doing it. The 16 hours if IBT involves 6 in the classroom, learning the layout of the controls, analysing videos of lessons and tests to learn what you should and shouldn't do.

Regarding supervision, bikes are different in that you've to get your full licence before you can carry a passenger. As a learner you can drive around by yourself without supervision.

There are also restrictions that apply to the power of bikes, but that's rather long-winded to explain, and besides, the regulations are changing on the 19th of January. If you want I can sum the old and new regulations up for you, but it's not exactly going to be a concise sentence or two. :pac:

Mr Benevolent

leeomurchu wrote: »

You're echoing what I just said there when I said the government thinks speed is the only factor on road deaths and seem to overlook poor driving.

I do agree about the indicating though I'm beginning to think 2012 rep mobiles no longer come with indicators. :mad:

It's actually not a legal requirement to indicate. A good idea though.

Jam-Fly

Oranage2 wrote: »

I'm not that opinionated on many subjects but people that fail the test shouldn't even be allowed drive on the road even with a full license driver.

The test is 30-40 minutes long and you can make 7 medium mistakes, so basically if you cant drive for 5 minutes without making a mistake then you shouldn't even be allowed on the road full stop, too much of a danger IMO. (If they want to practice then they can do it on private property)


As for learner drivers that haven't failed the test, I suggest they must be accompanied by a full license driver and that they cant drive over 50km/h.

so if people fail the test, they can never drive on a road until they pass the test? are you actually serious? I assume you also mean people who haven't taken the test (ie haven't failed/passed yet) aren't allowed drive on public roads?

How do you expect people to learn?

If you said: drivers should have to have a qualified driver instructor present, drive in a dual controlled car, driver under 50km/h, could not drive during night or rain, and could only drive a maximum of 30 minutes at a time, that would be one thing, but saying people without a full license should never, ever drive on the road and practice on private property??? You realise having practice driving around a field is pretty worthless experience? And please inform me if there's a wealth of driving schools in Ireland that provide acres of land for an off-road, "private property" learning experience.