L-drivers to get penalty points for driving alone

PC CDROM

Rasmus wrote: »

A person sitting the test will spend more time yanking their head around 'observing' in order to please the tester, rather than concentrating on driving safely and naturally.

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DazMarz wrote: »

This, times a million. I was even told by my instructor; "even if you don't look in the mirror, make sure it appears that you are".

So basically, I just make it appear I'm doing something and I'll be fine??

That observation thing is a crock. You basically just have to spin your head around to prove you're looking. I can look just fine without throwing my back out! That is one thing that made me pissed off; I always used my mirrors and I always looked around, but because I didn't violently jerk my head around to make sure that the tester saw this or swivel like a dervish to check the wing mirror... I could be failed. Have these people never swiveled their eyes in their sockets??? We are not owls. Our eyes are not static in our heads; they can move independently of our heads and we can look at something without physically moving our whole head or whole body, you know.

You were both told that because quite a lot of people don't look around.

They think driving is about what is in front of them. You naturally look in front of you. It is being aware of what is happening around you that is important. If you do naturally look around the fair play you will be a good driver. And as a good driver you will become aware of the amount of fukin idiots who don't.


I was told the same when I was learning. "Keep moving you head around so that they know you are looking at the mirrors etc" That was a tip to pass the test.

Looking back it would have been better to have hammered into me and all learners the importance of using your mirrors to see what is happening around you.

Oranage2

Rasmus wrote: »

The test here is too hard - this is why some many L drivers go round unaccompanied, not because they are lazy. It is the stupidest set-up going, and as someone mentioned, at the whim of the tester. A person sitting the test will spend more time yanking their head around 'observing' in order to please the tester, rather than concentrating on driving safely and naturally.

Too hard? It's a 30 odd minute test.

As for the mirrors, you have to look out for cyclists and motorcyclist. Your the type of dangerous driver that shouldnt be allowed on public roads.

Rasmus

Oranage2 wrote: »

Too hard? It's a 30 odd minute test.

As for the mirrors, you have to look out for cyclists and motorcyclist. Your the type of dangerous driver that shouldnt be allowed on public roads.

I always look in my mirrors. I was explaining that on the test you have to exaggerate this move. You did not read what I said. Perhaps you should sharpen YOUR observations.

Oranage2

Rasmus wrote: »

I always look in my mirrors. I was explaining that on the test you have to exaggerate this move. You did not read what I said. Perhaps you should sharpen YOUR observations.

You dont really, I think just another myth/conspiracy used by by people who fail.

I did my test, drove very cautiously and was very nervous, I was marked down twice for not keeping up with traffic. I drove a rented car that I only drove for an hour before the test. In the test I took the wrong exit off the roundabout, almost forgot to stop at a stop sign, had to pull in after 2 minutes of driving to fix my wing mirror as I forgot to put it back after reversing around the corner and made a balls of the parking back in the test centre, though after we went upstairs and she said I passed. Very easy and maybe it was my instructor but I didnt feel she was out to fail me.

Rasmus

Oranage2 wrote: »

You dont really, I think just another myth/conspiracy used by by people who fail.

Ah I don't think you know what you're on about.

jester77

glennryan wrote: »

Did you have to pay 40 euro a lesson....doubt it!!!!!

Far from it, I had to pay over €2000, passed first time so didn't have to pay for additional classes and that was around 10 years ago, so probably a lot more now.

Oranage2

Rasmus wrote: »

Ah I don't think you know what you're on about.

Suppose, you probably have a lot more experience doing then test than me.

glennryan

Can't express an opinion here, what's the point of boards....

glennryan

glennryan wrote: »

Can't express an opinion here, what's the point of boards....

Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one and a right to use it!
Just don't everyone to agree with it..

glennryan

Deleted User wrote: »

Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one and a right to use it!
Just don't everyone to agree with it..

Can't express an opinion here but moderator can abuse people ..pumped up l.sh..

Muir

PC CDROM wrote: »

As far as I am aware the rule has always existed in modern time. tbh you can't blame some L drivers for driving on their own. It should have been clamped down on years ago.

As for the confidence thing... that is just something that come along over years. Not a few drives.

Passing your test does not make you a good driver. Just you passed a test on the day.

Hand on heart I only became what I would call a good driver about 9 years ago. That was after about 10 years of driving.

The big change in my driving habits was actually moving back to Ireland, specifically Dublin... and realising I was surrounded by some of the worst drivers in the world. So I had to learn to be super duper aware using my mirrors etc For example it is not about the cars around you on the M50. You have to be looking ahead as far as you can see! And the same every where. NO ONE is prepared for high speed crash

It came in just over 4.5 years ago as far as I'm aware, because it basically came in just in time for me being 17 and starting to drive.

Personally I found myself gaining confidence when I started going out on my own & realising that yes, I can drive well on my own without an instructor next to me. Not even going for long drives, just to the shops on my own made a difference to me & made me a better driver because I wasn't feeling as nervous.

There's always room for improvement with driving really, but yeah you need to be aware of everything going on, in front, around & behind you.

People talking about exaggerating the looking in mirrors for the test, I was taught this in driving lessons. I was also told for when reversing, often men tend to put their arm around the seat when looking behind and you should do this in the test to make it very clear you are looking behind you. Personally I think having to literally swing your head around to make it obvious you're looking in the mirror is very stupid. In the extra bit of time you waste exaggerating your movement something could happen in front of you that you miss because of it.

pragmatic1

Shenshen wrote: »

So, people who get nevours in test situations should just never ever attempt to even take the test, is that what you're saying?

Also, I currently drive accompanied with L plates. I will do the speed limit, and not a kph more. The amount of road rage this enduces in other drivers, and the amount of frighteningly dangerous overtaking I get to experience every day beggars belief. Do you think your suggestion that learner drivers should only drive at 50 kph will make the roads safer?

While I do agree that the situation of people driving without full license, and people driving without license at all needs to be addressed, I also think that the driving skills of those with full licenses here are in dire need of re-assessment.

Have to agree with you there. The amount of "qualified" drivers I see daily that drive dangerously and make massive mistakes is unreal.

Yamanoto

SocSocPol wrote: »

Then dont drive, it's illegal and you are not legally qualified to. Simples.

And another thing kids, stay off the Drugs.

Shenshen

Oranage2 wrote: »

Ah yes the ole conspiracy theories! Also he never passed a single person sounds like some BS excuse.

My instructor has relocated because of that tester. It was driving business away, as the number of people applying to that particular test centre went darstically downhill after they reduced staff and only him and another tester remained.
She was livid about that. Apparently, the instructors in that area sent a joint letter to the RSA, but were essentially told that nothing would be changed.
Call it a conspiracy if you like, I still do not believe I would not have noticed a car parked on a dual carriage way without hard shoulder.

anncoates

Yamanoto wrote: »

And another thing kids, stay off the Drugs.

He/she is right.

If you want to drive, do the test and STFU whinging about it.

CommanderC

Oranage2 wrote: »

You dont really, I think just another myth/conspiracy used by by people who fail.

I did my test, drove very cautiously and was very nervous, I was marked down twice for not keeping up with traffic. I drove a rented car that I only drove for an hour before the test. In the test I took the wrong exit off the roundabout, almost forgot to stop at a stop sign, had to pull in after 2 minutes of driving to fix my wing mirror as I forgot to put it back after reversing around the corner and made a balls of the parking back in the test centre, though after we went upstairs and she said I passed. Very easy and maybe it was my instructor but I didnt feel she was out to fail me.

Sounds like you should have been failed.

I've been driving accompanied as a learner now for a while and the CRAZY behaviour I see on the roads actually scares me.

No indicating.
Tailgating - I actually thought one guy was in my back seat.
Flying onto roundabouts without yielding to anyone.
MAD...just MAAAD overtaking....for no reason.
Swerving in and out of lanes.

Doesn't matter whether you are a learner or a fully qualified driver it seems. Danger posed by all !!

Yamanoto

anncoates wrote: »

He/she is right.

If you want to drive, do the test and STFU whinging about it.

I wasn't addressing the rights or wrongs of it. We can all trot out statements such as 'they should stay off the roads then, it's illegal' etc. Kind of ignores the reality that learners will continue to make journeys unaccompanied in such numbers, so as to render the sanction largely impotent.

Driver testing, training and licensing is in need of an overhaul across the board. Until then, initiatives such as this appear little more than window-dressing.

SuperInfinity

The test is ridiculous. Nobody is going to genuinely **** up driving casually around an industrial estate, so they will get you on all the tiniest most subtle of things that sometimes aren't even good driving. And they will invent things if they don't like you. Your driving has to be perfect.

I find changing gears so much the most ridiculous part of it. It's both annoying and an unwanted distraction and potentially dangerous if you actually did that in real life. There is no point to it, and it wastes petrol/diesel and burns out the clutch. Add that to checking in every mirror every 3 seconds for imaginary cyclists/pedestrians coming inside you, checking for people about to ram you from behind, and you have yourself distractions worse than text messaging.

Once I got told off by the tester in a matter of fact way for indicating right when I entered the roundabout when I wasn't taking the most right-most exit but the second right-most exit... and the right-most wasn't even really an exit it was a shop. The only way this logically makes sense would be if someone on the other side would say: "ah, he hadn't his indicator to the right on while entering the roundabout, therefore he must not be going right around the roundabout and I may go". Some joke.

Rasmus

SuperInfinity wrote: »

The test is ridiculous. Nobody is going to genuinely **** up driving casually around an industrial estate, so they will get you on all the tiniest most subtle of things that sometimes aren't even good driving. And they will invent things if they don't like you. Your driving has to be perfect.

I find changing gears so much the most ridiculous part of it. It's both annoying and an unwanted distraction and potentially dangerous if you actually did that in real life. There is no point to it, and it wastes petrol/diesel and burns out the clutch. Add that to checking in every mirror every 3 seconds for imaginary cyclists/pedestrians coming inside you, checking for people about to ram you from behind, and you have yourself distractions worse than text messaging.

Not sure what your motivation behind posting that was, but you're funny.

ameeee

SocSocPol wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/ldrivers-to-get-penalty-points-for-driving-alone-3214926.html

Not before time bearing in mind;
A total of 45 unaccompanied learner drivers were involved in fatal crashes over the past 40 months, while a further 74 were involved in collisions resulting in serious injuries in the same period.

The fatalities involving unaccompanied drivers have accounted for one out of every 15 deaths on the roads since January 2009.
However it has to questioned as to why unaccopmanied learners will only recieve 1 penalty point for this offence, and why if they fail to display L plates in an effort to avoid detection they will recieve no penalty points for that offence.

Completely about time. I had two lessons a week for a year and then took a test. That's how I practised. I didn't own my own car so the money I spent on lessons, I saved on insurance etc... I passed second time. That is how to learn to drive responsibly. There is no way L drivers should drive unaccompanied. It makes a joke out of the whole system. I'm delighted.

Oranage2

CommanderC wrote: »

Sounds like you should have been failed.

I've been driving accompanied as a learner now for a while and the CRAZY behaviour I see on the roads actually scares me.

No indicating.
Tailgating - I actually thought one guy was in my back seat.
Flying onto roundabouts without yielding to anyone.
MAD...just MAAAD overtaking....for no reason.
Swerving in and out of lanes.

Doesn't matter whether you are a learner or a fully qualified driver it seems. Danger posed by all !!

I thought I did too but was only marked down twice for not keeping up with traffic. After I left I wondered how bad you must be to actually fail.

SuperInfinity

Oranage2 wrote: »

I thought I did too but was only marked down twice for not keeping up with traffic. After I left I wondered how bad you must be to actually fail.

I think it's fair to say that in spite of your experience you can be a perfectly safe and good driver and fail this test.

Oranage2

SuperInfinity wrote: »

I think it's fair to say that in spite of your experience you can be a perfectly safe and good driver and fail this test.

Can but most likely not I think it's fair to say.


It's like saying it's perfectly safe to go to a doctor who failed his/her exams.

lazygal

I've had several provisional licences over the past 10 years. I had a second provisional which meant I could drive alone, and I did. It's my own fault, I've bottle out of doing the test several times. But this year I decided to bite the bullet, renewed my licence and started a course of lessons. I hadn't driven alone since my second provisional expired, I just didn't want to take the chance. I've only been out driving with my instructor or a fully qualified (+2 years) driver. I've a young baby and there's been days I felt like taking the car rather than the Dart or bus because it would be so much handier, but I never have. The same way I wouldn't drive unless my insurance and tax are out of date. I don't buy the 'what about getting to work/college, I've no one to accompany me' sob stories. If you can't comply with the law, find alternative transport. If you can't get to college without breaking the law, you don't go, simple.

SuperInfinity

Oranage2 wrote: »

Can but most likely not I think it's fair to say.


It's like saying it's perfectly safe to go to a doctor who failed his/her exams.

Right, it's clear to me that you're trolling "just enough" to try to illicit a response every time since you started posting here. I'm fine with you living in your delusional world that passing the test when you should have failed it makes you a better driver than people who did fail it, so long as you drive safely of course... and try not to troll online.

Oranage2

SuperInfinity wrote: »

Right, it's clear to me that you're trolling "just enough" to try to illicit a response every time since you started posting here. I'm fine with you living in your delusional world that passing the test when you should have failed it makes you a better driver than people who did fail it, so long as you drive safely of course... and try not to troll online.

Well I shouldn't have failed because i didn't fail in the actual test. But you are correct, I do see myself as a safe driver, no penalty points and I've never been in an accident in 5 years of having my full license.

And I not trolling, I actually think it's delusional to think it's some kind of conspiracy that people think they failed on. If you fail then you just weren't good enough on the day and until you can prove that you are a good driver (on the day) then you are deemed an unsafe driver - simples.

SuperInfinity

Oranage2 wrote: »

And I not trolling, I actually think it's delusional to think it's some kind of conspiracy that people think they failed on. If you fail then you just weren't good enough on the day and until you can prove that you are a good driver (on the day) then you are deemed an unsafe driver - simples.

It's no conspiracy. The test sucks and is unfair, it's like a lottery. There's no way to "prove" you "are a good driver".

How can you even think that, just because of one positive result in your favour, where others would have failed automatically for getting off at the wrong exit at least, and you go against what dozens of other people say and claim they are all talking about a "conspiracy"?

If you failed it you would be just the same as them. It was a lucky break you got.

miss no stars

Didn't read every post so apologies if it's already been mentioned, but the point of the accompanying driver isn't purely for mechanical purposes. Sure, they can swap and drive if the learner gets panicked or whatever, but honestly, that stage of learning really only lasts a very short time. Once a learner has the basic mechanics down, it's a case of getting practice and experience in different situations, as well as smoothing out the mechanics. But it's a long time after the mechanics are sorted that someone actually becomes experienced at reading the road. At least according to my driving instructor, the purpose of the accompanying driver is to ensure that all hazards are being identified in sufficient time for the driver to be proactive about them, rather than reacting (possibly too late), or worse, not reacting at all because they haven't identified them.

If anyone thinks that just because they've got the mechanics down they should be allowed to drive unaccompanied, yet they haven't passed the test, they actually deserve disqualification for a year or two. The whole point of requiring the accompanying driver to have two years' fully licensed experience is that, even once you've passed your test, you're STILL not experienced. That comes with time. So how on earth can someone who's been driving for 6 months consider themselves adept at reading the road?

For the record, I am still a learner and I fully agree with bringing in penalty points if L plates aren't displayed and if the driver isn't accompanied. What I don't agree with is restricting learners to secondary roads and 50kmph as suggested, that's just ridiculous. Drivers need to learn to drive on the roads as they are. What happens when overnight the piece of paper changes colour and they're suddenly allowed to go at 120kmph on the motorway????

sock puppet

Oranage2 wrote: »

It's like saying it's perfectly safe to go to a doctor who failed his/her exams.

You've used the services of trainee professionals that have failed their exams quite a bit actually.

arodabomb

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

That really doesnt sound like a good help to me

It was always a great help to me.

rgmmg

I just passed in London having not driven in Ireland before. I didn't know anyone whose car I could borrow here (but still wouldn't have risked it in the absence of dual pedals). It took me ages to save up for the lessons but I did about 4 months worth (twice a week) in the instructor's car before sitting the test, having passed the theory test too.

Why not insist on learning only with instructors? My Mum's friend is in her 60s and still drives round on a provisional on her own having failed the test numerous times, "not a bother on her". I cannot believe people still drive around on a provisional licence unaccompanied but if it's not properly policed what do people expect?

hypersquirrel

Oranage2 wrote: »

Well I shouldn't have failed because i didn't fail in the actual test. But you are correct, I do see myself as a safe driver, no penalty points and I've never been in an accident in 5 years of having my full license.

And I not trolling, I actually think it's delusional to think it's some kind of conspiracy that people think they failed on. If you fail then you just weren't good enough on the day and until you can prove that you are a good driver (on the day) then you are deemed an unsafe driver - simples.

I failed my first test for not preparing adequately to come to a halt. Apparently I should have checked my mirrors, slowed down, checked my mirrors again, move down gears and then come to a complete halt. Of course by the time I did all that the child who had stepped out onto the road would have under the tyre.

Went back in and sat my test 8 weeks later having not been in a car since and then proceeded to pass with only one green mark against from the oral part of the test for not specifying what type of level crossing the sign he pointed to was.



I think it is about time that they started giving out points for unaccompanied learners and there is no excuse for it but people do most definitely get failed unfairly.

I would also like to see them replace the "reverse around a corner" with parallel parking and the introduction of the R plate system. Driving on a duel carriage way should also be a priority when possible as it is the safest way to get accustomed to multi-lane traffic.