How old is too old to drive?

From the Huffington Post, reporting on an incident in Los Angeles:

wrote:

A 100-year-old man backed his car on to a sidewalk and hit 11 people, including nine children, across from an elementary school in South Los Angeles just after classes had ended Wednesday, authorities said.

Four of the children were in critical condition when firefighters arrived but they were stabilized and were in serious condition at a hospital, city fire Capt. Jaime Moore said. Everyone was expected to survive, he said.

The powder blue Cadillac backed slowly into the group of parents and children buying snacks from a sidewalk vendor, and the crowd banged on his windows and screamed for him to stop, but not before some of the children were trapped under the car, witnesses said.

Continue reading.

The above raises an interesting and no-doubt controversial question: how old is too old to drive?

As there is a lower age limit, should there be an upper age limit? Once an individual reaches a certain age, should they be required to sit some kind of exam that tests their abilities, and then sit such an exam periodically from that moment on? What age should that occur at, if so? Would it be discriminatory to force such a test on the elderly?

I'm not sure where I stand with regard to the above. I do believe that once a certain age is reached an individual should have to be subjected to certain tests to keep their licence, even if the tests are only vision and hearing tests, so that proper eyewear and hearing-aids can be prescribed. The question of mobility and independence then arises: if an individual's licence is revoked, and their only means of transport was their car, what then?

It's an interesting line of debate, I think. So, what say you?

FatherLen

i reckon once you hit your 70's mandatory assessments should be brought in and if you don't pass, you lose your license. if they are capable of driving then they have nothing to worry about. if they are not able to drive, then the roads become safer.

Colmustard

I was putting Air in my tyres yesterday, and I was waiting behind an oldman of at least way into his 70s who was struggling with the apparatus as he couldn't see the dial and bending down seemed to be a problem. So I got out and did my good deed for the day and did it for him.

But I was thinking the same, at some stage in our lives, if we last that long we will have to stop driving, that man seemed fine, but how could you judge who should be driving and who should not be. At some stage there should be a mandatory medical for obtaining a licence and something more then just an eyetest.

fakearms123

Putting an age limit on a person's capacity to drive could be considered ageism but I do believe there should be room for a short driving test at the older ages, the test shouldn't be a pressurising as the initial driving test

Duggy747

At 100 years old, you're hardly a spring chicken.

Old people need to be isolated and studied so it can be determined what nutrients they have that might be extracted for our personal use.

Pawwed Rig

An Irish example is below. The man was disqualified

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcpUNwmMArY&feature=related

It is a tough thing to tell a parent that they should not be driving anymore

SEPT 23 1989

83 3/4

Gurgle

gvn wrote: »

It's an interesting line of debate, I think. So, what say you?

I think we've a perfectly good system already. I'm sure some GPs would happily sign off on a corpse, but that's a matter of enforcement / liability.

RSA Website

Your age will determine the licence term you can apply for:

Under 60: 10-year or 3-year licence
60-66: a licence that will expire when you reach 70 or 3-year licence
67-69: 3-year licence
70 or over: 3-year or 1-year licence (subject to certification of fitness to drive by your doctor)

Interceptor

EVERY driver should be re-tested every five years and from 75 you should be tested every three years. In the same way as your car gets an NCT to show it continues to be roadworthy, the driver should be tested too. Ban any clown who can't pass a retest for three months and make it mandatory for EVERY driver to stay up to date with the rules of the road. Driving is a privelege, not a right and too many drivers, old and young take this for granted. Drive properly or stay off the roads.

'cptr

Chavways

Totally depends on the individual driver.

uch

For women over 18 they should be banned

Zab

Interceptor wrote: »

EVERY driver should be re-tested every five years and from 75 you should be tested every three years.

If you're over 70 you need a cerification of fitness to drive from your doctor in order to get a licence, and the licence only lasts three years.

Ghandee

uch wrote: »

For women over 18 they should be banned

I remember one night I seen a news report on TV3 as to how some maniac driver was hurtling down the M50 in the wrong direction.

I suddenly realised that my grandad was on his way to ours for his dinner, and he'd have to use the M50 to get to our place.

I quickly called him on his mobile to warn him, I barely had dialled the number when he answered, I bawled down the phone at him, 'Granda, be careful on the roads, apparently their is some lunatic hurtling down the M50 in the wrong direction!

My Granda shouted back at me, 'One lunatic? There's fcuking hundreds of them!' :eek:

ScumLord

Chavways wrote: »

Totally depends on the individual driver.

Up to a point maybe, but you wouldn't say the same thing about a toddler, you can safely assume none of them can drive properly. It'll be a pretty freak occurrence if a 100 year old person is still capable of driving so we can work under the assumption they can't drive until they prove they can.

The Big Red Button

Gurgle wrote: »

I think we've a perfectly good system already. I'm sure some GPs would happily sign off on a corpse, but that's a matter of enforcement / liability.

RSA Website

Your age will determine the licence term you can apply for:

Under 60: 10-year or 3-year licence
60-66: a licence that will expire when you reach 70 or 3-year licence
67-69: 3-year licence
70 or over: 3-year or 1-year licence (subject to certification of fitness to drive by your doctor)

It's good that we have a system of regular medical checks in place.

However, I also think that all drivers (regardless of age) should have to sit a driving test every ten years or so. Driving habits slip as people get older - and rules of the road might change - I think it's crazy that you pass your driving test when you're so young, and don't need to sit another one for the rest of your life.

Dravokivich

uch wrote: »

For women over 18 they should be banned

huh?

Loopsie

My grandad will hit the 93 mark this february coming and he is a better driver than most on irish roads.........he has an old 00 merc with not a mark on it.....

FloatingVoter

There are still a lot of full licenses on our roads that were never tested. Up until the mid 1960s (I stand to be corrected), a license could be purchased. My grandfather did it for all his children when he heard about testing coming in.
That generation are now nearing or past pension age. However they cause very few accidents compared to the boy racer generation (I'm including anybody under 50 in that category - some kids never grow up, their cars and egos just get bigger).

eth0

Feck this 'too old to drive' nonsense. Ageism.

mitosis

The powder blue Cadillac backed slowly into the group of parents and children

Yet they couldn't walk out of the way? Did they all stand there assuming he would stop, and then in disbelief when he didn't they bang on the windows.

The Big Red Button

eth0 wrote: »

Feck this 'too old to drive' nonsense. Ageism.

And feck this 'too young to drive' nonsense ... isn't that ageism too?

looksee

Right. I am retirement age, I am still a competent driver and I know many people in my age group who are still competent. I crashed a car immediately after passing my test when I was 21; since then I have never had an accident or made a claim.

My husband is a good bit older and in poor health, but is competent to drive the very short distances he goes - to Mass mostly less than a quarter of a mile away. He has never had an accident.

However I agree that there should be a more in depth check on capacity to drive than asking the gp to take on the responsibility. Maybe an independent gp. I have seen some amazingly bad driving by very elderly people and in the end the family had to make the decision to take them off the road, which is very hard for any family to do.

I also know of younger people who are not fit to drive due to health issues, but there is no check on them. (And there are some posters on boards who regularly prove they do not have a good frame of mind to be on the roads.)

It would be unenforceable to do a 5 year check on everyone, but I do think there is merit in the idea of anyone who has or is responsible for an accident within certain parameters, or is drunk driving, should have to do a re-test.

I was bribed into the car with my grandfather when he was about 84... driving through Ranelagh was just mortifying, he tried to run over a few people basically for "being on the road" and broke a red light because "I was almost in the yellow box, I had no choice"; equally terrifying and embarrassing. Informed my mother immediately that he just can't be on the roads anymore! My uncle usually drove them everywhere anyway. My grandfather then broke his arm and had a cast for what seemed like months, after which he was yearning to take the car to France again. Holy God. Thankfully he gave up his notions of getting back behind the wheel when he was around 87. Mandatory testing for the over 70s, every five years perhaps, every 3 after 80 maybe, should definitely be introduced. While a perfectly competent driver at 80, a few years saw a massive deterioration in my grandparents' competency at the wheel, but it was down to family to take them off the road.

Gurgle

chatterpillar wrote: »

I think it's crazy that you pass your driving test when you're so young, and don't need to sit another one for the rest of your life.

^^ And that's people who at least passed it once.
There are still a (dwindling) number of drivers out there who bought their license at the post office, never read the rules of the road, never had a lesson and certainly never had a test.

Super-Rush

Gurgle wrote: »

^^ And that's people who at least passed it once.
There are still a (dwindling) number of drivers out there who bought their license at the post office, never read the rules of the road, never had a lesson and certainly never had a test.

There are a hell of a lot of drivers out there who were handed a free license due to a postal strike.

Gurgle

Gurgle wrote: »

^^ And that's people who at least passed it once.
There are still a (dwindling) number of drivers out there who bought their license at the post office, never read the rules of the road, never had a lesson and certainly never had a test.

Yeah, my ma! She'd never have got through the driving test without calling at least one other road user a bollocks and passing basically everything that moves.

Never had an accident, all the same.

Lollipops23

The one and only time I genuinely feared for my life on the road was down to an elderly gent driving a Chrysler. He kept braking when anything came in the opposite direction and was driving less than half the speed limit. When i went to overtake on a bit of straight road the bastárd sped up to trap me on the wrong side!!!
Managed to get back in (ahead of him) in the nick of time, but by jaysus it could have been close.

Laphroaig52

Lollipops23 wrote: »

The one and only time I genuinely feared for my life on the road was down to an elderly gent driving a Chrysler. He kept braking when anything came in the opposite direction and was driving less than half the speed limit. When i went to overtake on a bit of straight road the bastárd sped up to trap me on the wrong side!!!
Managed to get back in (ahead of him) in the nick of time, but by jaysus it could have been close.

In fairness, 'elderly gents' don't have the monopoly on that kind of behaviour.......

The incident probably had more to do with the fact that he was just a gobdaw than his age.

Laphroaig52

Interceptor wrote: »

EVERY driver should be re-tested every five years and from 75 you should be tested every three years. In the same way as your car gets an NCT to show it continues to be roadworthy, the driver should be tested too. Ban any clown who can't pass a retest for three months and make it mandatory for EVERY driver to stay up to date with the rules of the road. Driving is a privelege, not a right and too many drivers, old and young take this for granted. Drive properly or stay off the roads.

'cptr

I don't think this would work.

In general, bad driving doesn't come from ignorance of the rules or incompetence - it arises from laziness, arrogance and impatience.

Repeat testing would do nothing to eliminate these qualities.

It would be just be an additional cost for motorists. Most drivers who passed a test once can easily pass again - it just takes a bit of effort on the day.

Then they can just revert back to their 'normal' habits until the next retest.

ScumLord

eth0 wrote: »

Feck this 'too old to drive' nonsense. Ageism.

It's not ageism it's simple practicality old people deteriorate and can't react as fast. If they can't drive they can't drive and we shouldn't be thinking about their feelings when it comes to road safety.

looksee wrote: »

It would be unenforceable to do a 5 year check on everyone,

I don't see why, your provisional license only lasts 1 - 3 years so the frame work for a 5 year license is already there in a way. Just make it a case your license lasts 5 years and you have to get retested to get a new one.

cozar

50 or over?

looksee

ScumLord wrote: »

It's not ageism it's simple practicality old people deteriorate and can't react as fast. If they can't drive they can't drive and we shouldn't be thinking about their feelings when it comes to road safety.

I don't see why, your provisional license only lasts 1 - 3 years so the frame work for a 5 year license is already there in a way. Just make it a case your license lasts 5 years and you have to get retested to get a new one.

But that there is the issue - the system can't even cope with getting people their first driving licence - what would you do while waiting for your 'refresher test'?

Capt'n Midnight

FloatingVoter wrote: »

There are still a lot of full licenses on our roads that were never tested. Up until the mid 1960s (I stand to be corrected), a license could be purchased.

Don't forget the 1979 amnesty

or the SGS test rates while they were doing it - higher than the public test centres. The lowest test rate 42% was nearly half the highest test rate 76%.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/private-centres-put-ldrivers-on-right-road-to-passing-test-1292452.html

Carlow has a pass rate of 42pc at the RSA centre and 57pc at the local SGS centre. In Cavan the figures are 48pc and 68pc respectively, in Dundalk 56pc and 67pc, Monaghan 59pc and 76pc, Naas 50pc and 65pc, and in Waterford 51pc and 69pc.

The average pass rate in the RSA run test centres was just 54pc, compared with 62pc in the private centres.

Capt'n Midnight

fakearms123 wrote: »

Putting an age limit on a person's capacity to drive could be considered ageism

So could mandatory retirement ages.

I think 70 should be the age of very regular reassessment. If possible I'd say every two years.

I don't think the reassessment should be a test of driving skill. It should be a test of reflexes, ability to react to situations quickly, muscle function, overall health and eyesight. I live in a village with a very high proportion of older people and I know of many people who are on the road whom I would prefer to be off it.

I don't think it's an excuse that they've never had an accident before.
I don't think it's an excuse that they seem fine to talk to and know the rules of the road.
I don't think it's an excuse that it improves their quality of life to be able to drive.
I certainly don't think it's an excuse that they've always had a car.

At a certain age, no matter how fine you feel, your reaction times are greatly decreased.

opinion guy

When I was growing up there was this old dude near the school who with massive jam jar glasses who used to drive everywhere at 5mph on whichever side of the road damn well pleased him best/he could see on that day. I heard that the family tried to stop him but he was having none of it.

Anyhow - my general thinking is that these types tend not to crash themselves, but trundle on unscathed through the mass carnage that occurs around them as others have to take evasive action to avoid the unexpectedly slow moving and badly position car.

That might be slightly biased, but I have on several times had to take evasive action to avoid these types myself

Nux

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTopRDwli3A

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Milk & Honey

A factor with older drivers is that the current road system is very different from the one they started driving on. Many of them can't negotiate roundabouts or cloverleaf junctions properly. They don't spot road signs in time or at all. Many elderly people have badly bashed cars from banging into gates and the like. If it was not for the fact that they tend to do low mileage at off peak times and drive slowly there would be many more incidents involving damage to persons and property. One of my neighbours had both of her legs broken by a 90 year old driver who thought he was in reverse and not first gear moving away from the local shop. She was standing against a wall which also came down in the incident. I know a man who is 82 years old, is almost fully deaf, blind in one eye and has a replacement knee and hip, cannot move his head fully and has been recently certified by his doctor as fit to drive!

looksee

Milk & Honey wrote: »

A factor with older drivers is that the current road system is very different from the one they started driving on. Many of them can't negotiate roundabouts or cloverleaf junctions properly. They don't spot road signs in time or at all. Many elderly people have badly bashed cars from banging into gates and the like. If it was not for the fact that they tend to do low mileage at off peak times and drive slowly there would be many more incidents involving damage to persons and property. One of my neighbours had both of her legs broken by a 90 year old driver who thought he was in reverse and not first gear moving away from the local shop. She was standing against a wall which also came down in the incident. I know a man who is 82 years old, is almost fully deaf, blind in one eye and has a replacement knee and hip, cannot move his head fully and has been recently certified by his doctor as fit to drive!

That is the doctor and the system that is at fault. I totally agree there are some elderly people who should not be driving, but this sweeping generalisation stuff that is going on is ridiculous.

If the argument were based on whether women were too stupid /incompetent /inherently incapable of driving, or whether all disabled people were obviously not capable of driving because they are, well, disabled, there would have been howls of protest. How about anyone who didn't pass their leaving cert, or anyone done for speeding, or people who are foreign - all those Americans who come over and get off an overnight flight and into a car on the wrong side of the road and then creep around because they are nervous of narrow roads.

I have made four attempts at a closing sentence and they are all way too abrasive, so I will just leave it at that.

Wacker The Attacker

stupidity on the road transcends the age barrier

randylonghorn

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

stupidity on the road transcends the age barrier

Completely agree.

The usual target group for the rants are the 18-22 year old lads, yet I know lots of lads in this age group who are excellent drivers ... not all, by any means, and you'll encounter lads who are poor enough drivers yet convinced that they're both F1 standard drivers and immortal to boot, sure. But just because the latter are more visible is no reason to label all in this demographic as the same.

The next most common target group are women drivers, yet most of the women I know are at least as well able to drive as their male counterparts, and I know a couple of women who would drive rings round most men. And sure, you get the odd doodah, and they're a hell of a lot more obvious on the roads than their peers, so heh! ... *obviously* women drivers are all shít! :rolleyes:

Same with this tbh ...

How old is too old to drive?

When you're no longer capable of driving safely, whether that's 50 or 90.

Simple as.

Irish Guitarist

I think every driver regardless of age should be tested every couple of years. I've seen some absolutely terrible driving by people that were in their twenties or thirties.

For instance I was once walking on the footpath when some idiot drove up on the path and headed right towards me. I had to walk out into the road to avoid being hit. Once I had walked around the car and was back on the path I looked back to see his parked car taking up the entire width of the footpath. The driver was getting out of the car and gave me a dirty look as if to say "what are you looking at?". I'd say he was only in his late twenties or early thirties but he seemed to have forgotten what the purpose of a footpath was.

There are also numerous times when some moron has almost run me over when I've been crossing at a pedestrian crossing. On the occasions when I've managed to see the driver it has always been a relatively young person.

lorrieq

More to do with vision than age I would think.

Matt_Trakker

I think we should have continuous assessment for drivers, every 2 or 3 years people should have to take a 3 hour driving course with an instructor. Not another test just something where an instructor can rectify what you're doing wrong when you drive.

I'd give them the power to make particularly bad drivers resit the exam though.

It'd be a good money-spinner for the govt too, a few extra bob, make it a hundred quid every 2 years for the first 10 year and 3 years after that.

Cú Giobach

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

It is a tough thing to tell a parent that they should not be driving anymore

true-or-false wrote: »

I don't think the reassessment should be a test of driving skill. It should be a test of reflexes, ability to react to situations quickly, muscle function, overall health and eyesight.

+1 to both the above.

I'm in the tricky situation where I know my father shouldn't be on the road anymore, his eyesight and hearing are both grand but his concentration and reflexes are shot, my mother has told me of quite a few dodgy incidents and any time he drives me anywhere (he won't let anyone else drive his car) there are always a few "tricky" situations, Ive had to do the "back seat driving" thing which has lead to some tension between us.
The problem is my folks live on their own and I live about 40 miles away so I can't help them day to day on that regard, and driving is the only freedom left to him as walking is now really difficult.
His doctor clears him because he is unaware of his issues with concentration and reflexes (I guess).
The time has now come for me to either talk to him, or privately with his doctor, a son telling his father something like that is very tricky and I'm dreading having to do it, and I hate the thought of going behind his back to his doctor.
One (or both) of these I have to do now or as soon as possible for his and other peoples sakes and by Christ I'm dreading it, not necessarily for me but for what I will be taking away from him.

Pawwed Rig

I had the same thing mate. My Dad would be bouncing off curbs and scraping the side of the car. uckily enough he didn't drive too much anyway and gave up on his own eventually. I don't envy your situation.

Can your mother not drive?
I used to do all the longer trips for my Dad such as going visiting other siblings etc.
Regarding not letting anyone else drive his car, on this one you're going to have to insist

Cú Giobach

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I had the same thing mate. My Dad would be bouncing off curbs and scraping the side of the car. uckily enough he didn't drive too much anyway and gave up on his own eventually. I don't envy your situation.

Can your mother not drive?
I used to do all the longer trips for my Dad such as going visiting other siblings etc.
Regarding not letting anyone else drive his car, on this one you're going to have to insist

You were lucky there with him stopping on his own, I've been putting this off till now hoping for something like that, but it seems it isn't gonna happen, bugger.
My mother passed the driving stage years ago, and I live so far away and with other responsibilities I can't just head over to drive him places, the only option I think is gonna be a chat with his doctor.
This thread has actually put it so into my mind that I'm gonna give him a ring later today. Cheers for that gvn.

Pawwed Rig

Good luck with it.

OldGoat

If you are concidering taking away driving entitlements based on the age/accident ratio I think you'll find that everyone under the age of 104* should have their license revoked.


*In the time honoured tradition of Internetz statistical arguments I made this figure up in my own head.

LordSutch

86

splashthecash

When you start reversing over kids I think its safe to say you should hang up your driving gloves