4,000 new citizens, a day to celebrate.

Nodin

conorhal wrote: »

I've really tired of this 'culturally enriched' meme that the left perpetrate, many of whom are the very same people that that rather ironically sneer at any and every assertion of indigenous Irish culture.

I've also yet to experience this 'cultural enrichment', or have anybody explain exactly how my life has been 'enhanced’ by it.
Perhaps I have failed to fully appreciate the cultural value of my Eastern European neighbors all night vodka parties and casual knife crime (neighbor stabbed to death a few years ago at a party). Nor does my trip into work feel 'enhanced' by the burka brigade on the bus with their kids and male 'chaperone', in fact I find it somewhat disquieting to have to sit in proximity to somebody wearing a mask and seated next to her bouncer. Nor does half of Nigeria swaggering around the Square where I shop dressed as identikit gangstas in their trackies and chains seem very 'culturally enhancing' either, and I've yet to figure out how the default cultural expression of most Africans in the area appears to be the culture of South Central Los Angeles to which (as far as I can gather anyway) they have no connection.

I get the distinct feeling that those who bang on about 'cultural vibrancy' tend to be the kind of people that turn up at the annual DunLaoghaire 'Festival of Cultures' to eat a samosa, watch some Thai's dance and buy a colorful hat before fecking off back home to Dublin 4, because they sure as hell don't live in the pretty alienating world of vibrant multicultural Dublin that I do.

Awwwww. God love ye.

Cork boy 55

It says 14,000 since last june
How many in last 10 years and where are these people from?

Chuck Stone

I do think that immigration should be more selective.

More professionals to drive down the costs of healthcare would be nice.

Less people for the non-skilled areas - there's plenty of competition there.

SocSocPol

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

It says 14,000 since last june
How many in last 10 years and where are these people from?

Not sure how many were granted citizenship in the last 10 years, however we do know that the 4,000 who got their citizenship came from 115 different countries, which is great. Maybe at last we are moving towards becoming a forward looking inclusive,melting pot as oppossed to a inward and narrow minded mono ethnic kip.

mackg

andrew wrote: »

I'm pretty sure you can drink alcohol in UAE, and that Islam and opium aren't a thing. But even if they were, so what. Don't go to UAE if you don't want. and if there are laws against opium here, then respect them.


New York, London, Canada, to name a few places, are anything but bland and homogeneous.

As I said earlier a friend lived in Dubai for a year working on the construction of some hotel or other and he said you can drink in the bars in the hotels all you like but when you are done get straight in a taxi (they will be right outside the door) and go where you are going, no messing around as that is not tolerated in the least. Another friend who is currently working in Saudi Arabia said that there the only place to drink is in the company compound iirc.

not yet

conorhal wrote: »

I've really tired of this 'culturally enriched' meme that the left perpetrate, many of whom are the very same people that that rather ironically sneer at any and every assertion of indigenous Irish culture.

I've also yet to experience this 'cultural enrichment', or have anybody explain exactly how my life has been 'enhanced’ by it.
Perhaps I have failed to fully appreciate the cultural value of my Eastern European neighbors all night vodka parties and casual knife crime (neighbor stabbed to death a few years ago at a party). Nor does my trip into work feel 'enhanced' by the burka brigade on the bus with their kids and male 'chaperone', in fact I find it somewhat disquieting to have to sit in proximity to somebody wearing a mask and seated next to her bouncer. Nor does half of Nigeria swaggering around the Square where I shop dressed as identikit gangstas in their trackies and chains seem very 'culturally enhancing' either, and I've yet to figure out how the default cultural expression of most Africans in the area appears to be the culture of South Central Los Angeles to which (as far as I can gather anyway) they have no connection.

I get the distinct feeling that those who bang on about 'cultural vibrancy' tend to be the kind of people that turn up at the annual DunLaoghaire 'Festival of Cultures' to eat a samosa, watch some Thai's dance and buy a colorful hat before fecking off back home to Dublin 4, because they sure as hell don't live in the pretty alienating world of vibrant multicultural Dublin that I do.

Shush...you can't be saying that. Don't you know we are now a happy,vibrant multicultural nation that we have all agreed to.

cristoir

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I do think that immigration should be more selective.

More professionals to drive down the costs of healthcare would be nice.

Less people for the non-skilled areas - there's plenty of competition there.

That seems fine in theory but many "unskilled immigrants" come to this country to become skilled and end up subsequently making a large contribution to the economy even though upon arrival that would not appear so. Nearly everyone I work with in retail who is a non-national is studying.

I don't what the numbers are here but in the US, Germany and else where a non-national is far more likely to start up a business then a native national.

AnonoBoy

brimal wrote: »

Your 'see what I mean' post was referring to Israel's no-nonsense approach to illegal immigrants.

What's wrong with deporting people who are in the country illegally?

Nothing. However sticking it into a post about people becoming legal citizens of Ireland although not explicitly stating it suggests that the person posting it thinks that those people should be deported.

We hadn't been talking about illegal immigrants but yet he thought it relevant to bring it into the thread. Why? It wasn't what we were talking about at all but as per my prediction somebody managed to get in the 'send 'em back where they came from' pretty darn quick.

So once again - "See what I mean!" :pac:

Cork boy 55

SocSocPol wrote: »

Not sure how many were granted citizenship in the last 10 years, however we do know that the 4,000 who got their citizenship came from 115 different countries, which is great. Maybe at last we are moving towards becoming a forward looking inclusive,melting pot as oppossed to a inward and narrow minded mono ethnic kip.

Are you serious?

Ya Ireland 1999 was terrible.

A multi-ethnic country is automatically superior to a largely mono-ethnic one, this is your viewpoint.
Do you consider all largely mon-ethnic countries to be "kips"
So the Dominican republic is superior to south Korea in your opinion?
oh
mono ethnic =/= inward or narrow mined (automatically )
and
melting pot =/= forward looking for example what of all these immigrants where from the most remote part of conservative Afghanistan or Amish (automatically )




You say it is a day to celebrate yet you seem to have no idea where or who these people are or how their will benefit us?
Produce some data.

bodice ripper

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

You say it is a day to celebrate yet you seem to have no idea where or who these people are or how their will benefit us?

I have no idea who "us" is or how we'll benefit me either...

cristoir

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Are you serious?

Ya Ireland 1999 was terrible.

A multi-ethnic country is automatically superior to a largely mono-ethnic one, this is your viewpoint.
Do you consider all largely mon-ethnic countries to be "kips"
So the Dominican republic is superior to south Korea in your opinion?
oh
mono ethnic =/= inward or narrow mined (automatically )
and
melting pot =/= forward looking for example what of all these immigrants where from the most remote part of conservative Afghanistan or Amish (automatically )




You say it is a day to celebrate yet you seem to have no idea where or who these people are or how their will benefit us?
Produce some data.

What do you mean by "us"?. If you mean Irish then your mistaken because that term is apt to also refer to the people in the OP. So they are "us" too.

Regarding what they provide it's pretty much universally excepted by the business community and among economists that immigrants strengthen an economy provided there are reasonable wage controls and labor laws in place.

Cork boy 55

cristoir wrote: »

..

Regarding what they provide it's pretty much universally excepted by the business community and among economists that immigrants strengthen an economy provided there are reasonable wage controls and labor laws in place.

No that depends on the quantity and quality of the immigrants
and the immigration control regime.

for example
500,000 Nomadic illiterate peasants with an average IQ of 75 would not benefit the economy

af_thefragile

Ireland needs people who can set up businesses and build a proper economy that is based on real things that can be exported. An economy based solely on banking and housing was bound to collapse. Many of these immigrants are young hard working people (as they would be to make it this far from their homeland) and so they're more likely to contribute to the economy than the current population.
Europe has a major problem with growing elderly population. The elderly put huge strain on the economy as they do not work and live off benefits. To balance this the country needs many younger people who can work and contribute to the economy.

The only people who dislike foreign/immigrant people coming to their countries are the ones who don't like to see them black or brown or chinese people moving into their nice white neighbourhoods.

SocSocPol

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

No that depends on the quantity and quality of the immigrants
and the immigration control regime.

for example
500,000 Nomadic illiterate peasants with a average IQ of 75 would not benefit the economy

Godwin strikes again!

Cork boy 55

SocSocPol wrote: »

Godwin strikes again!

confused?

Cork boy 55

The failure of Ireland's Liberal Immigration polices. An analysis

Ireland's immigration polices 1995-2010 have failed.
Here are 16 reasons listed below why I think so, there's others as well
such as worker displacement in labour market.
The debate is not anti-immigrant or anti-immigration it is about
the level of immigration and type of immigration
Where immigration is concerned, caution, control and conservatism should be the watch word
Had we adopted more immigration control in 1995 we would now have a smaller and more high quality immigrant population and could have avoided or minimized the dangers of it
while still gaining most the advantages that it can bring.
We need to learn these lessons for the future when the Economy recovers and we need
to deal with the hangover of the failed immigration polices to date.
Plenty of data can be produced for other European countries further down the road from us which confirms my viewpoint.




Economy

1: Social welfare cost
78,857 amount of non-Irish national on live register (388,066 Irish)
(see post number 102 for non-eu numbers)
If we compare the numbers on the dole with the populations recorded in the 2006 census
we see that some groups have high levels of social welfare dependence
http://www.politics.ie/current-affai...egister-2.html

2: Remittances
Money from temporary economic immigrants leaving country in from of remittances
I am not saying this is wrong of them, I am just saying this a reality of
liberal immigratiion polices.
Poles alone sent €841million home from Ireland in 2009
http://www.politics.ie/economy/14121...009-times.html


3: Cost of asylum system
The cost of dealing with asylum seekers will reach €300m this year(2008), with Irish lawyers making a killing from an estimated 1,200 judicial reviews of deportation cases by people who have entered the country illegally.
False claims help bill for asylum seekers to hit €300m - National News, Frontpage - Independent.ie

4: Social Housing
More than half of the applicants for council homes in north Dublin are from abroad, new figures show.
Over half on housing list are foreign - City News, National News - Herald.ie


5: Rent allowance.
Last week(2008), the figures appeared for the numbers of people receiving full state-subsidy for rental accommodation in Ireland. Nearly 40pc of them are immigrants.
Risible lies about immigrants no substitute for honest debate - Kevin Myers, Columnists - Independent.ie

6: Child benefit payments
Child benefit payments parents living in Ireland who claim for non-resident children.
2005 ..... €720,000
2008 ..... €20.9 million
2010 ..... €15.4 million

State seeks to change EU child benefit rule - The Irish Times - Mon, Mar 21, 2011



Justice

7: Prison Commitals
33.6% of all prison committals in 2007 where non-Irish national
Statistics-Home

8: Sham marriage
BETWEEN 10 and 15 per cent of the civil ceremonies conducted across the country may be “sham marriages” aimed purely at circumventing immigration rules, one of the country’s main marriage registrars has warned. Dennis Prior, superintendent registrar for the Health Service Executive eastern registration area, said the increase in suspected bogus marriages, which is now estimated at several hundred per year, was “disheartening and demoralising” for registrars
Registrar warns of rapid rise in 'sham marriages' - The Irish Times - Tue, Aug 17, 2010

9: Legal costs.
57% of judicial reviews in the High Court were 'asylum-related' in 2009 ie 749 of 1312.
Courts Service of Ireland 2009 report
23% (8.3m) of the State's funding to legal aid (€34,640,000) in 2009 was to represent asylum seekers through the Refugee Legal Service.
The costs of the State's legal defence to these actions, is extra but hidden in somebody else's budget. It is not clear if the costs of the Refugee Documentation Centre come out of the 8.3m.
http://www.legalaidboard.ie/ 2009 report
Interpreters for foreign national defendants in our courts cost €3.8m in 2008
Language costs for courts to hit €10m - National News, Frontpage - Herald.ie

10: Illegal immigrants
Migrant Rights Centre states that 30,000 undocumented workers reside in the state by their estimate.
Focus on status of undocumented migrants - The Irish Times - Mon, May 23, 2011

Health

11: infectious disease
Two examples
60% of all HIV and Aids cases are non-Irish national
50% of all recent TB cases are non-Irish national
http://www.politics.ie/health-social...evealed-4.html

12: foreign doctors fitness to practise
MORE than 60% of Fitness to Practise (FTP) inquiries completed by the Medical Council in 2010 related to foreign doctors.
Foreign docs in 60% of conduct hearings | Irish Examiner


Education


13: Cost of translation services
1100 language assistants in schools in January 2010.
Language posts cut 'will hit integration' - Latest News, Education - Independent.ie

14: OECD Education ratings decline
Ireland has dropped in OECD Education rankings I believe immigration is a factor in this
how big a factor is debatable.
Ireland has slipped from 5th place in 2000 to 17th place,
the sharpest decline among 39 countries surveyed.
In maths, Ireland has fallen from 16th to 26th place, the second steepest decline among participating countries. Ireland is now ranked as below average in maths.
Yesterday, the Department said the increase in migrant children, the greater inclusion of children with special needs and fewer early school leavers could explain the decline in literacy and maths standards.
Ireland drops in literacy rankings - The Irish Times - Tue, Dec 07, 2010
Annual Monitoring Report on Integration 2010
From Table 3.4 we see that scores of non-English speaking immigrants scored ,
59 points lower in reading than Irish students
35 points lower in mathematics than Irish students
Table 3.4 Mean reading and mathematics scores in PISA 2009 by immigrant/language status, 15 year olds (Ireland)
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0504/integration.pdf


Miscellaneous

15: Professional immigration industry “NGOs”
The immigration industry in Ireland contains a total of 189 organisations (2007)
These groups dominate the media debate or what passes for debate , there is no opposing voice.
Their press statements are reprinted as facts in newspapers.
Some of the biggest are
ICI, II , NCCRI, IRC, MRCI, NASC, RIS,
Its would be a very hard task to calculate just how much taxpayers money is taken by these groups. It is estimated that One Foundation and Atlantic Philanthropies account for a major proportion of funding provided to many of these groups.
Taxpayer money can be funnelled into these groups
both through direct and indirect means for example Development Education Grants
Pobal, National Action Plan Against Racism, Office of the Minister for Integration
European grants, FAS, HSE and Lottery grants.
These groups funded partly by us now represent a powerful lobby group.
http://www.prospectus.ie/documents/P...port_Final.pdf


16: Irish naturalisation & immigration service
59,291,000 euro's 2010
http://www.budget.gov.ie/budgets/201...get%202011.pdf

andrew

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

No that depends on the quantity and quality of the immigrants
and the immigration control regime.

for example
500,000 Nomadic illiterate peasants with an average IQ of 75 would not benefit the economy

Yes it would, abundant cheap labour!

SocSocPol

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

confused?

To say you are confused is to put it mildly, but your admission that you are is a good first step. Onwards and upwards for you from now on.:)

Cork boy 55

af_thefragile wrote: »

Ireland needs people who can set up businesses and build a proper economy that is based on real things that can be exported. An economy based solely on banking and housing was bound to collapse. Many of these immigrants are young hard working people (as they would be to make it this far from their homeland) and so they're more likely to contribute to the economy than the current population.

The economy was balanced until the mid 2000s
How do you know that they are hard working and entrepreneurs
whats your data?

af_thefragile wrote: »

Europe has a major problem with growing elderly population. The elderly put huge strain on the economy as they do not work and live off benefits. To balance this the country needs many younger people who can work and contribute to the economy.

Immigration is not the solution to the aging of Europe issue any one who is educated on the subject knows that.

The UN population division calculates that replicating the age structure and support ratio of Europe would require 701 million immigrants by 2050.
It is unrealistic to look to immigration for even modest alleviataions in the welfare state predicament see Harvard economist
Martin Feldstein study of Spain.
For immigrants to help the welfare state they and their descendents must pay more into the welfare than they take out.
The evidence is that many immigrant groups take more out of welfare than they put in in country after country.
In Netherlands for example where 40% of immigrants get some form of government assistance.
One of the amazing stats in the history of European Immigration is that the number of foreign residents in Germany rose steadily between 1971 and 2000 form 3 million to about 7.5 million but the number employed in work force did not budge it stayed roughly 2 million people.

All across Europe Immigration polices for some decades now are utterly disfunctional. and diseugenic

Good book on the subject
http://www.amazon.com/Reflections-Revolution-In-Europe-Immigration/product-reviews/0307276759/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_img/187-9915630-3447429?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

af_thefragile wrote: »

The only people who dislike foreign/immigrant people coming to their countries are the ones who don't like to see them black or brown or chinese people moving into their nice white neighbourhoods.

:rolleyes:

cristoir

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

No that depends on the quantity and quality of the immigrants
and the immigration control regime.

for example
500,000 Nomadic illiterate peasants with an average IQ of 75 would not benefit the economy

That's ridiculousness pedantic. Of course that would be bad if half a million illiterate peasants moved to Ireland but so would allowing the entire Sicilian Mafia to immigrate to Ireland. That has nothing to do with reasonable immigration policy. By your logic "heart trance-plants aren't a good thing because sometimes they can be infected with syphilis".

My original point that Immigration is good for an economy still stands.

kowloon

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

No that depends on the quantity and quality of the immigrants
and the immigration control regime.

for example
500,000 Nomadic illiterate peasants with an average IQ of 75 would not benefit the economy

These are exactly the type of people we need. We can send the whole lot down the potato mines and they won't bitch about it like the Irish who demand smoked salmon breakfast cereals and indoor sanitation.

Kat1170

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

for example
500,000 Nomadic illiterate peasants with an average IQ of 75 would not benefit the economy

Cork ???:P:P

flanders1979

andrew wrote: »

Yes it would, abundant cheap labour!

And a huge fcukin social welfare bill when the jobs are no more.

goose2005

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

No that depends on the quantity and quality of the immigrants
and the immigration control regime.

for example
500,000 Nomadic illiterate peasants with an average IQ of 75 would not benefit the economy

How can you be a nomad and a peasant?

juan.kerr

What exactly are we celebrating?

BraziliaNZ

God, such a moany bunch you lot. Ireland is a drab, boring, grey place for the most part in my opinion, especially outside of Dublin. Citizens from all over the world bringing their culture with them can only liven up the place in my opinion. Embrace it bitches!

SocSocPol

goose2005 wrote: »

How can you be a nomad and a peasant?

Leave him alone he has already admitted that he is both from Cork and confused.

cristoir

goose2005 wrote: »

How can you be a nomad and a peasant?

An elaborate form of crop rotation?

andrew

flanders1979 wrote: »

And a huge fcukin social welfare bill when the jobs are no more.

If anyone in the world could move anywhere they wanted, then they could just leave. That's my point about open borders. If people could work anywhere they wanted at any time, then they can move to where the work is. This includes the ability to leave when there's no work.

Eve_Dublin

That's great news.

karma_

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

That's great news.

I agree, not only do we get 4K new fellow citizens, we get to ferret out the boards resident racists.

In my book, that's a win-win.

Spook_ie

Hmmmm

I wonder if we suddenly had 4000 births in one day would we be celebrating that day or ruing it?

karma_

Spook_ie wrote: »

Hmmmm

I wonder if we suddenly had 4000 births in one day would we be celebrating that day or ruing it?

Woah there buddy, we'd literally need to win the World Cup or something for a population explosion of that magnitude.

Annasopra

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

The failure of Ireland's Liberal Immigration polices. An analysis

You've told us all this before; are you stuck on repeat?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=73498784
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=79712884

flanders1979

andrew wrote: »

If anyone in the world could move anywhere they wanted, then they could just leave. That's my point about open borders. If people could work anywhere they wanted at any time, then they can move to where the work is. This includes the ability to leave when there's no work.

But I like having my friends and family around. Anyone else is an afterthought.

Skyjock

karma_ wrote: »

I agree, not only do we get 4K new fellow citizens, we get to ferret out the boards resident racists.

Man....You say that like its a good thing !


I think Cork boy has well laid out....thats the sort we let in...AND....thats the result of it. Looney left wins again.

I hear echo's of the ould catholic establishment where the nation was told to procreate to no end ...even though there wasn't a crumb in the press, now the lefties take over from the church ....and import them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP7fETsKYkA
Watch this and tell me he was wrong.....no actually watch this and ask our nearest neighbour.

karma_

Skyjock wrote: »

Man....You say that like its a good thing !


I think Cork boy has well laid out....thats the sort we let in...AND....thats the result of it. Looney left wins again.

I hear echo's of the ould catholic establishment where the nation was told to procreate to no end ...even though there wasn't a crumb in the press, now the lefties take over from the church ....and import them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP7fETsKYkA
Watch this and tell me he was wrong.....no actually watch this and ask our nearest neighbour.

I watched the first 58 seconds, there was no need to watch any further. HE WAS WRONG.

SocSocPol

welcome back IrishAM

Annasopra

Skyjock wrote: »

karma_ wrote: »

I agree, not only do we get 4K new fellow citizens, we get to ferret out the boards resident racists.

Man....You say that like its a good thing !

It is a good thing

Frank Grimes

Skyjock wrote:

I think Cork boy has well laid out....thats the sort we let in...AND....thats the result of it. Looney left wins again.

I'm pretty sure the PC Brigade had a hand in this too.

karma_

Would you please do me a favour Frank and fix that, it looks like I said something idiotic there. Not that that's unusual, but I'm innocent this time!

SocSocPol

Frank Grimes wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the PC Brigade had a hand in this too.

Who exactly are the PC brigade?Define please

Pherekydes

Skyjock wrote: »

[I I hear echo's of the ould catholic establishment where the nation was told to procreate to no end ...even though there wasn't a crumb in the press, now the lefties take over from the church ....and import them.

We don't import human beings. They travel here of their own volition.

cristoir

Frank Grimes wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the PC Brigade had a hand in this too.

No doubt it was the that damn Center of Multicultural Liberal Elitist Politically Correct Bleeding Hearts for the Advancement of Mandatory Abortions, Free Prams and Swan Culling.

Frank Grimes

SocSocPol wrote: »

Who exactly are the PC brigade?Define please

I have it outlined here.:pac:

Annasopra

SocSocPol wrote: »

Who exactly are the PC brigade?Define please

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IYx4Bc6_eE

mackg

SocSocPol wrote: »

Who exactly are the PC brigade?Define please

PC Brigade




(Noun) (Abbr. Political Correctness Brigade) (Chiefly British)

A smug, knee-jerk, ill-defined catch-all word that is overused by closet racists, sexists, homophobes and bigots to describe anyone who dares to challenge their hate speech with the values of respect and common human decency.


From urban dictionary

therewillbe

Can I say without getting Banned That I for one am sick to Death looking at all these Africans going around dressing like something from Boyz in the Hood!Am I a racist? Who knows but I tell you one thing,It is getting a bit out of control in some areas,I drove through a North Co Dublin town a few weeks back and it was like downtown Lagos.We are going down the UK route were johnny foreigner live together and do not become part of the local community.Ranting now:mad:
No More I say,4,000 today you say OP,Thats just the legal ones.

Skyjock

karma_ wrote: »

I watched the first 58 seconds, there was no need to watch any further. HE WAS WRONG.

then try the second part...ask our neighbour's...but dont go to Birmingham, Luton or the other countless Ghetto's.v;)


"We don't import human beings. They travel here of their own volition"
Totally correct...my apologies....its the attractiveness and ease of that entrance
that needs to be looked at.

not yet

Pherekydes wrote: »

We don't import human beings. They travel here of their own volition.

And there you have it, Most of our new citizens are asylum seekers who decided to come here because of our welfare system and ease of access to it, anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded.