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Nelson Mandela terrorist?

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Comments

  • #102
    AEDIC
    Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭AEDIC


    Thread derailers in thread derailment shocker..... Mandela...Adams....any of you guys remember what the thread was about?

    Anyway..back to the OP.... as a lot have already said, Mandela is no angel and I am personally surprised by the amount of people that have forgotten the darker history. However a lot of good has been done in SA that is directly attributable to the struggle so it tends to 'rose tint' history a little.


  • #103
    Rascasse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭Rascasse


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Did the MK kill any civilians in its initial 1960s campaign, or was it only after Mandela was imprisoned that they carried out attacks on innocent people?

    I can't seem to confirm it either way.

    I just looked at the TRC findings. Looks like he was imprisoned before they actually became active.
    33. An analysis of the information received by the Commission confirms that there were no actions of note taken by MK inside South Africa during the period 1964 to 1975

    It should also be noted that the TRC found there were about 140 civillians killed by the MK (out of a total of 250ish) and I can only think of 2 where innocents were targeted. One is a bar in Durban and another was a shopping centre I think in Gauteng somewhere (then the Transvaal). I know the shopping centre one was the guy doing it of his own back, not a planned attack.


  • #104
    Border-Rat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 921 ✭✭✭Border-Rat


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Are you accusing me of being a serial rapist?

    Is that all you have? A pathetic appeal to moderation?


  • #105
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    It's fairly simple in my book. If the PIRA had stuck to what they claimed and targeted military or political targets then they could claim to be freedom fighters, but a big part of their campaign was against civilians, which is terrorism.

    Is state forces killing unarmed civilians terrorism in your view? Question is valid as state forces have engaged irregular forces in both conflicts.


  • #106
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Rascasse wrote: »
    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Did the MK kill any civilians in its initial 1960s campaign, or was it only after Mandela was imprisoned that they carried out attacks on innocent people?
    I can't seem to confirm it either way.
    I just looked at the TRC findings. Looks like he was imprisoned before they actually became active.
    33. An analysis of the information received by the Commission confirms that there were no actions of note taken by MK inside South Africa during the period 1964 to 1975
    It should also be noted that the TRC found there were about 140 civillians killed by the MK (out of a total of 250ish) and I can only think of 2 where innocents were targeted. One is a bar in Durban and another was a shopping centre I think in Gauteng somewhere (then the Transvaal). I know the shopping centre one was the guy doing it of his own back, not a planned attack.

    I remember their initial plan was one of disruption to the system but Mandela refused to renounce the armed struggle when he was offered freedom initially which cost him a lot of support.

    I was at a rally in Clapham to mark his 25th year of imprisonment and by that time he had become the face of the anti apartheid campaign. I also did the picket of the SA embassy a couple of times as well.

    It is amazing to look back at those days. The three biggest things happening in my teenage world was SA, the North and the cold war.

    The world has certainly changed.


  • #107
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    gurramok wrote: »
    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    It's fairly simple in my book. If the PIRA had stuck to what they claimed and targeted military or political targets then they could claim to be freedom fighters, but a big part of their campaign was against civilians, which is terrorism.
    Is state forces killing unarmed civilians terrorism in your view? Question is valid as state forces have engaged irregular forces in both conflicts.

    I don't think there is a yes or no answer for that.

    By today's standards, a strategy of targeting civilians is either terrorism or a war crime. Rogue soldiers deliberately killing innocent people is murder (or a war crime, or both).

    Were the UVF terrorists or freedom fighters?


  • #108
    kingtiger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭kingtiger


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Were the UVF terrorists or freedom fighters?

    I think "nonselect" Militia would be more accurate


  • #109
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    kingtiger wrote: »
    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Were the UVF terrorists or freedom fighters?
    I think "nonselect" Militia would be more accurate

    Or blood thirsty bastards......


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