Pharmacy Robbery

davo10

juuge wrote: »

Pharmacy ‘rip-offs’ have been discussed here on boards many times in the past. My belief is that as a group they are price fixing and charging way over the odds for medicines that people need to survive or in my Dad’s case, to stay alive. I will not be convinced otherwise. If there are two pharmacies in a town one Tesco and one independent the consumer/ patient doesn’t give a monkeys what their corporate background is, or what name is over the door, as long as they are getting the exact same medicine at a better price. That is the way of the world. How can anyone on a fixed income or of meagre means enjoy the luxury of buying from a local bookshop as opposed to buying on-line from companies such as Amazon at greatly reduced prices. It takes the likes of Tesco Pharmacy to come along and shake the market up. Look what Aldi and Lidl have done to the supermarket business in Ireland. Businesses compete to stay alive that’s how the market works. Before Tesco pharmacy came along pharmacies didn’t compete they all charged exactly the same thereby price fixing. Things are changing now and not a bit too soon for the likes of my Dad.

Wrong, Tesco is not competing, it does not rely on pharmacy profits to keep its pharmacy open, it can sell prescriptions at a loss if they want to and still make money in its retail sales.

The fact that pharmacies charge the same is not evidence in itself of price fixing. If a pharmacy can sell an inhaler for €10 then what's to stop another from thinking they also can sell it at that price rather than at a lower price with less profit. Maybe they do fix prices but though you are convinced, that does not make it fact.

Are NI pharmacies allowed to sell generics while southern Irish aren't? I don't know.

Juuge you may be right, and everyone should shop around for everything but using Tesco as an example of independents ripping off is a bit daft, they do not operate under the same business conditions.

davo10

Northern Monkey wrote: »

My prescription is €55 per month from a chemist in Dublin. I can get the same prescription in NI for £12. This is as a private prescription, so no nhs discounts or anything like that blurring the numbers.

What's the prescription? Is it a generic?

juuge

davo10 wrote: »

Wrong, Tesco is not competing, it does not rely on pharmacy profits to keep its pharmacy open, it can sell prescriptions at a loss if they want to and still make money in its retail sales.

Of course Tesco are competing!
As pharmacy is part of their overall business whether they sell a particular item, either a loaf of bread, a hammer or a prescribed medicine it still forms part of their competitive strategy. Do their sale of pens and pencils not compete with the likes of Easons or Televisions with the likes of DID? The fact that they sell multiple items means they are competing on multiple levels. How do you know Tesco are not making a profit on medicines? I would be very surprised if Tesco are not making a healthy profit on medicines, they are I assume taking a lesser margin than the Chemists but making up for it by economies of scale. Their sheer size means they can command a better buying price from suppliers, make a healthy margin and still be cheaper. Believe me, Tesco are making profits right across the board their shareholders insist on it, and in time hopefully Irish pharmacies will reduce their margins to compete, still make a healthy margin and the consumer will benefit. If they don’t, then they don’t deserve to be in business.

Northern Monkey

davo10 wrote: »

What's the prescription? Is it a generic?

200mg imuran (Azathioprine) per day, so 120 50mg tablets.

davo10

juuge wrote: »

Of course Tesco are competing!
As pharmacy is part of their overall business whether they sell a particular item, either a loaf of bread, a hammer or a prescribed medicine it still forms part of their competitive strategy. Do their sale of pens and pencils not compete with the likes of Easons or Televisions with the likes of DID? The fact that they sell multiple items means they are competing on multiple levels. How do you know Tesco are not making a profit on medicines? I would be very surprised if Tesco are not making a healthy profit on medicines, they are I assume taking a lesser margin than the Chemists but making up for it by economies of scale. Their sheer size means they can command a better buying price from suppliers, make a healthy margin and still be cheaper. Believe me, Tesco are making profits right across the board their shareholders insist on it, and in time hopefully Irish pharmacies will reduce their margins to compete, still make a healthy margin and the consumer will benefit. If they don’t, then they don’t deserve to be in business.

You are making my point for me. Because they compete in multiple levels with a wide verity of sectors such as groceries, clothing, electrical etc, not all need to make a profit. The pharmacy is a minute part of their business so is not as important as say the grocery business. Also as you said, there is an economy of scale so they may be able to buy at a better rate than independent operators so therefore make similar profits at lower prices, hense the bottom line may be the same on medications so the independent would have to charge for to derive the same profit so how could this be an example of a rip off?

Independents cannot compete with Tesco on all items in every sector. Tesco can at times afford to sell groceries, alcohol, electrical equipment medications etc at below cost if it drives consumer spending in other parts of their stores.

nino1

At the end of the day pharmacies are business' and will charge as much as they can to make as much profit as they can as much as the market allows and why wouldn't they. They are under no moral obligation to keep prices or profits down.
If a pharmacy could get away with charging you 200% mark up they would and again why wouldn't they if they could get away with it. They are in business to make money.
The government are the only ones with a moral obligation to step in as regards price if things are going out of hand through deregulation/government schemes, opening new pharmacy colleges to increase competition etc. So calling it a rip off or not is a moot point.

Tesco have certainly brought competition to the industry and charging less than 20% mark up rather than the traditional 50% is certainly good for the consumer as long as they don't hike everything up once competition closes down.

juuge

I don’t think there is really any disagreement here. However what I believe to be wrong is that high margins are inflicted by pharmacies on those that are either physically or mentally sick. It’s not like buying a Mars Bar where if the price is high you can opt for a Catch Bar instead. Sick people don’t have that choice and if (in my opinion) pharmacies are creaming it, and I believe they are, then I find that reprehensible.

El.duderino

Ted

Do you ever notice it's usually sick people who end up in hospitals?

davo10

juuge wrote: »

I don’t think there is really any disagreement here. However what I believe to be wrong is that high margins are inflicted by pharmacies on those that are either physically or mentally sick. It’s not like buying a Mars Bar where if the price is high you can opt for a Catch Bar instead. Sick people don’t have that choice and if (in my opinion) pharmacies are creaming it, and I believe they are, then I find that reprehensible.

Whether you are sick or not has absolutely nothing to do with business, pharmacies are in the business of retail. What is the profit on a prescription and how can you verify this? Are overheads increasing? Are you assuming that the difference between charges in tescos and independents equate to profit being made by independents?

nino1

juuge wrote: »

I don’t think there is really any disagreement here. However what I believe to be wrong is that high margins are inflicted by pharmacies on those that are either physically or mentally sick. It’s not like buying a Mars Bar where if the price is high you can opt for a Catch Bar instead. Sick people don’t have that choice and if (in my opinion) pharmacies are creaming it, and I believe they are, then I find that reprehensible.

you are forgetting that the pharmacy owner who is not necessarily a pharmacist is a business man. There is nothing reprehensible about a businessman maximising his profits in fact he would be doing a very bad job if he wasn't.
its up to governments to keep the price of drugs under control not pharmacists so i feel you are directing your anger in the wrong direction.

countrynosebag

rents and public indemnity insurance are outrageously expensive! Then the automatic 50% on top, previously mentioned... really we don't stand a chance. The key is not to be ill but for those of us who have 'conditiond' requiring meds, several for a lot of folk, it does come hard.
the helping hand is given to certain listed conditions but not for others, also life threatening at times which does not make sense to me.
i have a medical card and pay the token amounts for each prescription but coupled with cuts to disability, electricity benefits, xmas benefits, dental costs too and house tax, the sewerage tank to be added and more in the future i expect, it is obvious that many of the poorer persons will become ill and face death or death at an earlier age which is, in my opinion, moving towards genocide of the old, infirm and useless. how the govt. can talk loftily of saving unborn children and be contributing towards the death of those born is beyond me - the hypocrisy is breathtaking.
medical costs are but part of the larger picture.

roozer

countrynosebag wrote: »

rents and public indemnity insurance are outrageously expensive! Then the automatic 50% on top, previously mentioned... really we don't stand a chance. The key is not to be ill but for those of us who have 'conditiond' requiring meds, several for a lot of folk, it does come hard.
the helping hand is given to certain listed conditions but not for others, also life threatening at times which does not make sense to me.
i have a medical card and pay the token amounts for each prescription but coupled with cuts to disability, electricity benefits, xmas benefits, dental costs too and house tax, the sewerage tank to be added and more in the future i expect, it is obvious that many of the poorer persons will become ill and face death or death at an earlier age which is, in my opinion, moving towards genocide of the old, infirm and useless. how the govt. can talk loftily of saving unborn children and be contributing towards the death of those born is beyond me - the hypocrisy is breathtaking.
medical costs are but part of the larger picture.

what are you talking about?!!
This thread is about the cost of medication.
You pay E1.50 per drug!!!
That E1.50 whether it cost E100 or E200.
But then again you probably don't give a hoot how much it costs.
You should be in the bargins forum but you are not because you are so ungrateful and full of a sense of entitlement that you cannot see what a great deal you are getting.
Jesus Christ you cannot please some people, the state the country is in you are lucky you are getting a penny paid towards your medication.
If you were in America you would have to have your own private health insurance or else you would have to cough up the full amount and that would not be capped at E144 like it is hear. It could cost you E1000 a month and you would have to pay the full amount or do without.
so, appreciate what you have and stop moaning because people like you would find something to complain about if you never had to pay a penny more for anything.

palmcut

Brand name...cost to patient in Singapore....cost to patient in Ireland.

Humira...............1,810.00..................................144.00.


Decapeptyl........1,044.00...................................144.00.


Sandostatin.........2,252.00................................144.00

Jumboman

juuge wrote: »

My Dad is on heart medication and one of the tablets he gets is Atenolol 50mg.
Last week he bought them in Boots in the Square Tallaght cost €9.51 for 30.
He bought the same drug yesterday in Majorca cost €3.12 for 60. How crazy is that?
Why are people with serious medical problems like my Dad being totally ripped off like this? I believe that anyone that takes advantage of the sick and elderly are nothing but scum. Profit is one thing and we are all entitled to make a living but price differences such as these are daylight robbery.:mad:

Hi juuge,

As I understand it if you have a long term illness the state will pay for your medication. Have you looked into the Drugs Payment Scheme ?

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/entitlement_to_health_services/drugs_payment_scheme.html

nino1

Jumboman wrote: »

Hi juuge,

As I understand it if you have a long term illness the state will pay for your medication. Have you looked into the Drugs Payment Scheme ?

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/entitlement_to_health_services/drugs_payment_scheme.html

not true jumboman,
only very specific long term illness'.
doesn't cover generalised heart problems

Blue_Wolf

Isn't the average wage in Spain considerably less than Ireland. Surely if you get paid more than items you purchase cost more money. Regardless of the spanish government subsidising medication how can you complain about the price differences when we get paid more??

Silly if you ask me

juuge wrote: »

My Dad is on heart medication and one of the tablets he gets is Atenolol 50mg.
Last week he bought them in Boots in the Square Tallaght cost €9.51 for 30.
He bought the same drug yesterday in Majorca cost €3.12 for 60. How crazy is that?
Why are people with serious medical problems like my Dad being totally ripped off like this? I believe that anyone that takes advantage of the sick and elderly are nothing but scum. Profit is one thing and we are all entitled to make a living but price differences such as these are daylight robbery.:mad:

traxam

The issue with expensive medications is not to be blamed entirely on the pharmacist.

Many pharmacies like Boots, McCabes and a growing number of independents charge 0% mark up. Instead they charge a dispensing fee.

Others still charge a mark up of between 20 and 50%. That's why it is so important to shop around.

The dispensing fee in Boots is €7. So subtract €7 from what you pay to find out what Boots have to pay to buy the drug in the first place.

So if people buy a box of medicine in Boots for €57 and the same in Spain for €17, Boots are not making any profit bar a €7 dispensing fee. This fee is used to pay for staff wages, rates, rent, electricity etc.

SO the issue in Ireland is that the cost price of the drugs is too high. The cost price is decided upon by negotiations between the relevant government agencies and the drug companies, not the pharmacists.