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wall foundation

winsumlusum

Would a two foot wall supporting a six foot fence have the foundation 2 feet out from the wall. I was trying to dig a hole for tree yesterday and hit something. the hole was open overnight during rain and water will not drain from it

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TopTec

24"out from the wall is a bit excessive, does it have 24" on the other side as well? How deep are they? You sometimes find wide footings that are shallow for some reason or another.

I have seen founds that were 24" wide in total for a wall, and then the wall was laid against the back edge so the majority of the founds were in front. I would say a single skin wall, 2 foot high only needs 18 - 24" footings and about 12 " wide.

TT

winsumlusum

thanks sorry only saw this now

TopTec wrote: »

24"out from the wall is a bit excessive, does it have 24" on the other side as well?

i don't know
How far down would sewer or water pipes be. i was trying to see if i could get through whatever it s and saw a small bit of pipe like cement.

I do not know if it's just a broken bit that was buried. I want to plant in that area to block a view. also along the path there is something hard and water in three holes i dug will not drain away. Should mention drainage is very bad in my garden

I planted the tree temporarily in pot so it would not blow over. when i dug it up any water i had put on it was still in the hole.

TopTec

winsumlusum wrote: »

How far down would sewer or water pipes be. i was trying to see if i could get through whatever it s and saw a small bit of pipe like cement

You have 2 issues. The 1st poor drainage and the 2nd what you think is excessively wide wall footings interfering with your planting.

Dealing with the 1st doesn't solve the 2nd. You have to dig a hole about a foot square in front of the wall to find out if what the footings consist of. This will give you options on how to solve the tree issue.

You have to assume pipes are at any depth. They SHOULD be at least 1 metre and physically supported if they pass under a wall. Just dig down carefully with a trowel and you will be ok. You never know you might just have a gash piece of concrete exactly in the spot you want to plant.

Depending on the age of your property your main sewage pipes will either be plastic or clay, but not concrete.

Post a pic if you are in any doubt.

Have fun

TT

winsumlusum

TopTec wrote: »

You have 2 issues. The 1st poor drainage and the 2nd what you think is excessively wide wall footings interfering with your planting.

Dealing with the 1st doesn't solve the 2nd. You have to dig a hole about a foot square in front of the wall to find out if what the footings consist of. This will give you options on how to solve the tree issue.

You have to assume pipes are at any depth. They SHOULD be at least 1 metre and physically supported if they pass under a wall. Just dig down carefully with a trowel and you will be ok. You never know you might just have a gash piece of concrete exactly in the spot you want to plant.

Depending on the age of your property your main sewage pipes will either be plastic or clay, but not concrete.

Post a pic if you are in any doubt.

Have fun

TT

my house is 4 years old. What is a gash piece of concrete?
I think maybe i did not make myself clear. it is only a low wall supporting the fence. see pic. The wall is the low white piece at the bottom and at the left a concrete post. There is a concrete post between every fence panel i doubt if there would be a foundation for that two feet from it but I may be wrong

Thanks again

TopTec

You are right - that is not a wall. It is a horizontal concrete beam for the panel to sit on, keeping it above the wet ground, which helps prevent rot. There would be no footings/foundations required for that. It may be sitting on a thin trench of gravel but most times it will just sit on the ground as concrete doesn't rot. It is probably chocked up at one end to make it level, probably with a chunk of breeze block or brick.

A gash piece of concrete is rubbish, possibly just poured there to get rid of it. If your house is only 4 years old then the garden was the dumping ground for all the builders rubble and waste and then a few inches of top soil laid over that just prior to selling.

I suspect what you have found is a piece of that junk discarded by the builders. Just dig down around it and remove it. Your sewer pipes from your house will be brown plastic.

TT

winsumlusum

TopTec wrote: »

You are right - that is not a wall. It is a horizontal concrete beam for the panel to sit on, keeping it above the wet ground, which helps prevent rot. There would be no footings/foundations required for that. It may be sitting on a thin trench of gravel but most times it will just sit on the ground as concrete doesn't rot. It is probably chocked up at one end to make it level, probably with a chunk of breeze block or brick.

A gash piece of concrete is rubbish, possibly just poured there to get rid of it. If your house is only 4 years old then the garden was the dumping ground for all the builders rubble and waste and then a few inches of top soil laid over that just prior to selling.

I suspect what you have found is a piece of that junk discarded by the builders. Just dig down around it and remove it. Your sewer pipes from your house will be brown plastic.

TT

many thanks. i discovered by digging in another area that about 10 inches down there seems to be a 'floor' of concrete or maybe large secions of gash as you say. I poured water in and it stays there in the hole hence why a previous tree died and why there is no drainage. I will take a pick axe to it at least i know it is not piping i am breaking. Much appreciated;)

paddy147

winsumlusum wrote: »

many thanks. i discovered by digging in another area that about 10 inches down there seems to be a 'floor' of concrete or maybe large secions of gash as you say. I poured water in and it stays there in the hole hence why a previous tree died and why there is no drainage. I will take a pick axe to it at least i know it is not piping i am breaking. Much appreciated;)

Do you know the location of gas pipe,mains water pipe and sewer pipe???

Do not start swinging a pick axe until you are certain of these utility locations.

winsumlusum

paddy147 wrote: »

Do you know the location of gas pipe,mains water pipe and sewer pipe???

Do not start swinging a pick axe until you are certain of these utility locations.

how do i find out?

paddy147

winsumlusum wrote: »

how do i find out?

You can ring Bord Gais....(Dial before you dig)

You could also have a look for the water stop cock shore outside your property on the footpath and see where it is located,in relation to where you are digging.Its a small shore with the word "Uisce" on it.

A quick call to the local county council too,to ask them.

winsumlusum

paddy147 wrote: »

You can ring Bord Gais....(Dial before you dig)

You could also have a look for the water stop cock shore outside your property on the footpath and see where it is located,in relation to where you are digging.Its a small shore with the word "Uisce" on it.

A quick call to the local county council too,to ask them.

even though this is my back garden ad the water stopcock s at the front gate?

would the location be on the planning permision files for this estate at the council? Thanks

paddy147

winsumlusum wrote: »

even though this is my back garden ad the water stopcock s at the front gate?

Do you have a side entrance down the house?

Is the house a semi d house?

In some cases the councils ran the mains incomming water pipes up the front garden,down the side of the house and in around the back garden into the house/kitchen area.;)

Thats how the semi d houses where I live are done anyway.

winsumlusum

paddy147 wrote: »

Do you have a side entrance down the house?

yes

Is the house a semi d house?

yes

In some cases the councils ran the mains incomming water pipes up the front garden,down the side of the house and in around the back garden into the house/kitchen area.;)

how deep would they be

TopTec

Paddy is right, locate them first. If you have a sewer manhole or inspection hatch open them and see which way the pipes run. If you live on an estate the sewers are all interconnected in runs leading to a mains sewer. Ask your neighbours, they might know and check your plans, if you have them, they also should be marked on houseplans only 4 years old.

TT

winsumlusum

TopTec wrote: »

Paddy is right, locate them first. If you have a sewer manhole or inspection hatch open them and see which way the pipes run. If you live on an estate the sewers are all interconnected in runs leading to a mains sewer. Ask your neighbours, they might know and check your plans, if you have them, they also should be marked on houseplans only 4 years old.

TT

the manholes are out on the roadway, there is no inspection hatch i know of

TopTec

winsumlusum wrote: »

the manholes are out on the roadway, there is no inspection hatch i know of

If the manholes are for your sewers it sounds like the mains sewers are at the front. I would suspect your foul water, (sewer), comes out of your bathroom/toilet, runs down close to the house and then down the side to the mains. The big vent pipe is also a clue as to where it runs. There should also be small rodding points along the runs, used to clear blockages. These are usually small round hatches about 4" across. These are frequently covered over by people slabbing pathways.

If your kitchen is at the back and your stopcock is at the front then the mains water either runs the same way or through the house to the front, (this isnt allowed in the UK, I am not sure about over here).

Best to be sure but you sound like you are away from the services, Can you take a pic of the gash concrete?

TT

paddy147

winsumlusum wrote: »

yes

yes

how deep would they be

Around 18-24 inches deep down.

Could be a bit shallower though.

winsumlusum

TopTec wrote: »

, Can you take a pic of the gash concrete?

TT

will tomorrow dark now

paddy147

If your house is only 4 years old then there would be no real reason to cover over a sewer pipe witu concrete.

Your mains water would be black hydrodare pipe

Your mains gas would be yellow plastic pipe

I think that TopTec may be right...builders rubble and shyte dumped to get rid of it,and then filled over with soil and grass seed.

This is what sewer,gas and water utilities look like in a modern house.

If your 3 holes are all by concrete fence posts,then what you are hitting is either "postcrete" or concrete that was poured in to a large deep hole secure the concrete fence post.

Proceed with CAUTION though.;)

winsumlusum

paddy147 wrote: »

If your house is only 4 years old then there would be no real reason to cover over a sewer pipe witu concrete.

Your mains water would be black hydrodare pipe

Your mains gas would be yellow plastic pipe

I think that TopTec may be right...builders rubble and shyte dumped to get rid of it,and then filled over with soil and grass seed.

This is what sewer,gas and water utilities look like in a modern house.

If your 3 holes are all by concrete fence posts,then what you are hitting is either "postcrete" or concrete that was poured in to a large deep hole secure the concrete fence post.

Proceed with CAUTION though.;)

Thanks that pic is a great help

If your 3 holes are all by concrete fence posts,then what you are hitting is either "postcrete" or concrete that was poured in to a large deep hole secure the concrete fence post

I tried digging in other areas , same thing down a foot and water just pools in the hole.
Is it possible the ground was concrete and they put soil and seed over it? There is no drainage and outside my back door after a 3 feet cement path is like the second pic down where it says "aLL THE TIME WET in this area right outside the back door"n this post .Although mine wil dry when there is sun. Thanks again

winsumlusum

Originally Posted by TopTec
, Can you take a pic of the gash concrete?

TT

here it is. The picture is taken on glass table. is that what you mean by gash concrete.?
Everywhere I dig I hit that about a foot down. Is that usual?
Thanks for the feedback guys

TopTec

Yep, what we suspected. It is old rubbish concrete from left over building work. I would suspect there is a lot more of that and broken blocks, discarded wood, cement bags, chippings and everything the builder didn't want and wouldn't pay to have removed.

I mean why fill an expensive skip with builders rubbish and have to pay to have it taken away when you have a square piece of land out the back just ripe for filling up!!! This is then flattened down with a digger and a few inches of soil laid over the top.

It might be the case that all this stuff is on top of compacted soil or worse, heavy clay.

If you want to solve the drainage problem it will mean renting a digger and removing all this stuff.

If you just want to plant a few trees then excavate down as deep as you can, breaking through the layer of rubble, 3 feet minimum at a guess, and at least the same in diameter. Back fill this with a mix of sharp gravel/sand and screened soil and plant your trees in this.

Don't dispair, you are not the only one with this problem.. It just sticks in your throat how careless some builders can be.

Dont lose heart - keep at it.

TT

paddy147

If you want the tree/trees to establish properly and set out its roots,then you are going to have to remove alot of that shyte.

Dumping concrete and building shyte into a garden like this is unacceptable.:mad:

You should chase down the builder and ask him to do something about it......(dont be too surprised to get the cold shoulder though).

Ideally you should remove all that burried shyte and then get in a truck load of good quality top soil,if you want to do things propperly.

Add in plenty of compost,manure and also horticultural grit too.

The grit is vital for good drainage.

Best of luck with it.:)

paddy147

TopTec wrote: »

Yep, what we suspected. It is old rubbish concrete from left over building work. I would suspect there is a lot more of that and broken blocks, discarded wood, cement bags, chippings and everything the builder didn't want and wouldn't pay to have removed.

I mean why fill an expensive skip with builders rubbish and have to pay to have it taken away when you have a square piece of land out the back just ripe for filling up!!! This is then flattened down with a digger and a few inches of soil laid over the top.

It might be the case that all this stuff is on top of compacted soil or worse, heavy clay.

If you want to solve the drainage problem it will mean renting a digger and removing all this stuff.

If you just want to plant a few trees then excavate down as deep as you can, breaking through the layer of rubble, 3 feet minimum at a guess, and at least the same in diameter. Back fill this with a mix of sharp gravel/sand and screened soil and plant your trees in this.

Don't dispair, you are not the only one with this problem.. It just sticks in your throat how careless some builders can be.

Dont lose heart - keep at it.

TT

We went though ther same thing ourselves,with regards builders rubble.
Luckily my girlfriend is a horticulturalist,a tough little cookie and a very hard worker.She cleared out both front and back gardens of all the rubble/shyte and designed,built and planted them from scratch.

She saved me and us thousands of euro by doing it all.:)

TopTec

And made a very good job of it going by those pics. Quite some tree she is shifting..... some kind of birch?

TT

paddy147

TopTec wrote: »

And made a very good job of it going by those pics. Quite some tree she is shifting..... some kind of birch?

TT

Thanks.:)
In those pics,shes prepping and planting a 4.5 meter tall multi stem birch tree in the garden.

She had to dig down 20-24 inches to reach the subsoil and to clear the rubble and hardcore out,so that she could also build a raised bed on one side of the garden and shovel in around 2 tons of topsoil,manure,compost and horticultural grit.

TopTec

paddy147 wrote: »

She had to dig down 20-24 inches to reach the subsoil and to clear the rubble and hardcore out,so that she could also build a raised bed on one side of the garden and shovel in around 2 tons of topsoil,manure,compost and horticultural grit.

winsumlusum

This is what it needs for your place I reckon. hard work but worth it.

TT

paddy147

TopTec wrote: »

winsumlusum

This is what it needs for your place I reckon. hard work but worth it.

TT

2 tons of Screened Topsoil,manure,horticultural grit and fertilizer pellets all mixed in together.That was for the raised bed on one side of the garden.

The main part of the garden took alot more prepping,topsoil,manure,grit and fertilizer pellets.

"You get out of it what you put into it".

paddy147

TopTec wrote: »

winsumlusum

This is what it needs for your place I reckon. hard work but worth it.

TT

And 1 of these can be rather handy too.;)

You will break up all the set/hard concrete,rubble and shyte in no time at all.Told you shes a tough little cookie.:)

paddy147

Oh and 1 more top tip for you here........

Hire out the equipment from the local builders providers or hire shop on a Friday morning,and you get to keep it till around midday on Monday.

But you only pay for the Friday (1 day).

This way you get the entire weekend with the equipment to do what you need to do.

Hope this helps.:)

TopTec

My god, it is almost as tall as her!

:):)

TT