Clare Daly resigns from Socialist Party, the beginning of the end for the SP ?

SaoriseBiker

I think she was the SP's best speaker, Higgins is juvenile most of the time with the same continual rhetoric and cannot put a coherent policy together except denouncing the " capitialist gambling speculators " etc A big blow to the SP, the SP are blaming it on her connection to Mick Wallace

So what is her and the SP's future ? I think she would do ok as an independent, the SP will continue to exist but only with one or two seats to eventual oblivion like the Workers Party back in the 80's.

http://socialistparty.net/component/content/article/3-newsflash/1030-clare-daly-resigns-from-the-socialist-party

Bits_n_Bobs

"You have a failed ideology, you have the most hopeless policy that I ever heard pursued by any nitwit," Mr Ahern said.

Bertie managed to get one thing right. A failed 'ology persued by nitwit zealots destined for a long and hopefully occasionally amusing death.

Daly and Wallace deserve each other and their respective hypocrisies.

Nonoperational

God that's a dream team anyway. Daly and Wallace. Christ.

FrontStorm

They never began in the first place!

It never managed to blossom beyond a beard-fest of pseudo-Marxists guffawing and congratulating each other on their subsidised newsletter attacking the capitalist system.

NIMAN

Pity she wouldn't resign from politics altogether.

SaoriseBiker

FrontStorm wrote: »

They never began in the first place!

It never managed to blossom beyond a beard-fest of pseudo-Marxists guffawing and congratulating each other on their subsidised newsletter attacking the capitalist system.

A bit like the Workers Party which included FF and FG supporter Eoghan Harris !!!!

SaoriseBiker

NIMAN wrote: »

Pity she wouldn't resign from politics altogether.

In fairness to her, I don't think she's a bad speaker, best the SP had, although that wouldn't be hard.

Fenian Army

I suspect she was "asked to resign"

I agree with a lot of the SP's statement, you can't act like an independent when you are not. Refusing to engage with the party, follow its line or endorse statements is not on. I understand this has been going on for quite a while, and in light of this the use of the fiscal treaty to raise the profile of their MEP (Quite successfully imo) makes perfect sense.

She is far too cozy with the tax cheat, including being seen having expensive lunches with him in top restaurants numerous times as well as the things outlined in the statement.

I think the spotlight and platform went to her head.

SerialComplaint

Ah the traditional split, omnipresent in Irish left circles.

southsiderosie

Bits_n_Bobs wrote: »

"You have a failed ideology, you have the most hopeless policy that I ever heard pursued by any nitwit," Mr Ahern said.

Bertie managed to get one thing right. A failed 'ology persued by nitwit zealots destined for a long and hopefully occasionally amusing death.

Daly and Wallace deserve each other and their respective hypocrisies.

Is this Bertie "The Last Mohican Socialist in Ireland" Ahern you are speaking of?

Hypocrisy indeed.

later12

I have a big problem with the established socialist movement in Ireland ; not necessarily to their ideology, which they are entitled to cling to, but rather the way in which they alienate enterprise and mainstream society with pretty wacky economic, fiscal and social policy proposals that are not necessarily in keeping with or required of Marxist philosophy. Using the word "Militant" in their title for many years wasn't helping their appeal either.

I'd question their seriousness as political activists, and would dearly love to see Daly form a political party capable of responsible, adult and coherent discourse on how we ought to define our economy and society using the socialist model. Daly has been a surprisingly strong and reasonable politician in her contributions to debate since entering office, so here's hoping.

yore

later12 wrote: »

I have a big problem with the established socialist movement in Ireland ; not necessarily to their ideology, which they are entitled to cling to, but rather the way in which they alienate enterprise and mainstream society with pretty wacky economic, fiscal and social policy proposals that are not necessarily in keeping with or required of Marxist philosophy. Using the word "Militant" in their title for many years wasn't helping their appeal either.

I'd question their seriousness as political activists, and would dearly love to see Daly form a political party capable of responsible, adult and coherent discourse on how we ought to define our economy and society using the socialist model. Daly has been a surprisingly strong and reasonable politician in her contributions to debate since entering office, so here's hoping.

I guess that's subjective. She always came across like a petulent child to me!

hatrickpatrick

*sigh*
I am irresistibly reminded of the Judean People's Front once again. That entire scene could very easily have been a direct parody of the Irish left.

This hugely saddens me, as a supporter of socially left wing policies, who the hell else is there to vote for? And is there anyone you can vote for in terms of socially left politics without getting the economic borderline-marxism thrown in as well?

Fenian Army

later12 wrote: »

I have a big problem with the established socialist movement in Ireland ; not necessarily to their ideology, which they are entitled to cling to, but rather the way in which they alienate enterprise and mainstream society with pretty wacky economic, fiscal and social policy proposals that are not necessarily in keeping with or required of Marxist philosophy. Using the word "Militant" in their title for many years wasn't helping their appeal either.

I'd question their seriousness as political activists, and would dearly love to see Daly form a political party capable of responsible, adult and coherent discourse on how we ought to define our economy and society using the socialist model. Daly has been a surprisingly strong and reasonable politician in her contributions to debate since entering office, so here's hoping.

Is that a disguised call for a party with "socialist lite" politics?

tayto lover

NIMAN wrote: »

Pity she wouldn't resign from politics altogether.

She's quite good at pointing out the deficiencies in F.G. policies in fairness.

shoddy14

tayto lover wrote: »

She's quite good at pointing out the deficiencies in F.G. policies in fairness.

Down with this sort of thing!! Young fine gael are being brainwashed wby their predeccesors

mikemac1

Bits_n_Bobs wrote: »

"You have a failed ideology, you have the most hopeless policy that I ever heard pursued by any nitwit," Mr Ahern said.

Bertie managed to get one thing right. A failed 'ology persued by nitwit zealots destined for a long and hopefully occasionally amusing death.

Sure Bertie was a socialist too

edit: southsiderosie has it above ^^^

Dave!

I've found Daly to be one of the more coherent and articulate of our new left-leaning friends in the Dáil. Hopefully in the next election goons like Ming Flanagan and Mick Wallace get booted out, but Daly stays in as an Independent. Decent voice to have (symbolically - her actual voice grates me)

yore

tayto lover wrote: »

She's quite good at pointing out the deficiencies in F.G. policies in fairness.

Ah sure look. Any eejit can point out deficiencies. The difficult, and "value add" part is the suggestion and implementation of a better solution.

mikemac1

Dave! wrote: »

Decent voice to have (symbolically - her actual voice grates me)

For someone from Kildare she has become more Dub then the Dubs themselves

later12

Fenian Army wrote: »

Is that a disguised call for a party with "socialist lite" politics?

Not from my viewpoint, but it could be interpreted as such.

I'm not asking them to become social democrats or cast their oar in with the Labour party, just for a realisation that legitimate Marxist doctrine doesn't have to be characterised by lunatic fringe.

yore

Dave! wrote: »

I've found Daly to be one of the more coherent and articulate of our new left-leaning friends in the Dáil. Hopefully in the next election goons like Ming Flanagan and Mick Wallace get booted out, but Daly stays in as an Independent. Decent voice to have (symbolically - her actual voice grates me)

Wallace is a crook. Flanagan may be a goon, but he's the people of Roscommon's goon and I have to respect that. Local politics is the system. Daly is supposed to represent Nth. Co Dublin. She thinks she represents the whole island. It's ironic now that she doesn't have her "nationwide" party platform!

later12

Your triumvirate of political buzzwords to accompany "goon" and "crook" would have been gloriously complete if you had only admonished Claire Daly to get back to her "parish pump".

yore

later12 wrote: »

Your triumvirate of political buzzwords to accompany "goon" and "crook" would have been gloriously complete if you had only admonished Claire Daly to get back to her "parish pump".

.........I thought that was implicit in what I said...Flanagan at least does his "job". She doesn't

GSF

Dave! wrote: »

I've found Daly to be one of the more coherent and articulate of our new left-leaning friends in the Dáil.

Yes pro Vat fraud and anti property tax. Doesnt say much for the rest if she is the most coherent.

Toby Take a Bow

Bits_n_Bobs wrote: »

"You have a failed ideology, you have the most hopeless policy that I ever heard pursued by any nitwit," Mr Ahern said.

Bertie managed to get one thing right. A failed 'ology persued by nitwit zealots destined for a long and hopefully occasionally amusing death.

Daly and Wallace deserve each other and their respective hypocrisies.

Really? Since he said that they managed to significantly increase their vote.

Interesting that you don't notice the hypocrisy of Bertie Ahern talking about failed ideologies pursued by nitwits.

jank

So what will her platform be now? Cheating on your tax's is OK?

Min

Clare Daly, I just feel like laughing :pac:

She has nothing to offer, just higher budget deficits because she supports tax fraud and people not paying what they are suppose to pay.

Pity we have to pay for such people.

Silvio.Dante

OK I'm going to ask the question.

Are Daly and Wallace 'having it off'..?

I have no time for Daly's abortionist line but she is a performer of note...

Dubhlinner

Big loss to the socialist party. Joe Higgins been a very disappointing performer whereas she has been strong.

later12

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

OK I'm going to ask the question.

Are Daly and Wallace 'having it off'..?

That's none of our business, but this sort of tattle has been a consistent and not very tactfully employed allusion in a lot of media reporting, yes; particularly in the Indo which felt it necessary to cover Mick Wallce's sex life in some considerable detail over the Summer. Didn't half put me off my chips.

Anyway, if it has any relevance at all - and that is extremely tenuous - it does raise some questions about what on Earth the Socialist Party are up to. Perhaps they see fit to pass judgement on whom their representatives have personal relationship with. The Wallace saga is dying down. I can't imagine why it should still have been troubling the Socialist Party moreso than it was last june.

Fenian Army

later12 wrote: »

That's none of our business, but this sort of tattle has been a consistent and not very tactfully employed allusion in a lot of media reporting, yes; particularly in the Indo which felt it necessary to cover Mick Wallce's sex life in some considerable detail over the Summer. Didn't half put me off my chips.

Anyway, if it has any relevance at all - and that is extremely tenuous - it does raise some questions about what on Earth the Socialist Party are up to. Perhaps they see fit to pass judgement on whom their representatives have personal relationship with. The Wallace saga is dying down. I can't imagine why it should still have been troubling the Socialist Party moreso than it was last june.

You wouldn't have a link to articles where that is alluded to?


Its more to do with her not engaging with party structures imo.

southsiderosie

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Kristopherus

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

OK I'm going to ask the question.

Are Daly and Wallace 'having it off'..?

I have no time for Daly's abortionist line but she is a performer of note...

Well none of the tabloids have mentioned it yet afaik. Though the RTE reports mentioned her being in Wallace's company both inside and outside the Dail very frequently. I got the impression they were just stopping short of saying they were "having it off":)

Fenian Army

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/colonels-daughter-who-wouldnt-give-mick-his-marching-orders-3139905.html

Their relationship is very curious, as a socialist she should have any time for a blatant tax cheat like Wallace.


She needs to explain herself.

later12

Fenian Army wrote: »

You wouldn't have a link to articles where that is alluded to?

This one stuck out in my memory.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/but-at-least-hes-getting-support-from-the-women-in-his-life-3140485.html

Anyway, it doesn't matter what the nature of their relationship is at all ; there is clearly a friendship there, and I think it would be fair to observe that this appears to irritate the Socialist Party.

round tower huntsman

she's a let down. she got votes in our house.never again. i always thought of her as a real staunch socialist that couldnt be bought or tainted. but her behaviour over the last few months regarding wallace has been shamefull.

the sp are better off without her. never judge a person on their deeds in the past but their outlook at present. she's let down all her comrades and for what???

Fenian Army

later12 wrote: »

This one stuck out in my memory.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/but-at-least-hes-getting-support-from-the-women-in-his-life-3140485.html

Anyway, it doesn't matter what the nature of their relationship is at all ; there is clearly a friendship there, and I think it would be fair to observe that this appears to irritate the Socialist Party.

Its not just a personal relationship though, she has refused to condemn him despite her party doing so also refusing to sign party statements, there is the problem. Her sticking up for him flies against her parties politics and is damaging to them among the grassroots, its not exactly passing judgment on who she has pints with in the pub.

JonathanAnon

That crowd on the left are all hypocrites.. Take this week for example, with the announced health cuts... not one of them is prepared to admit that without tackling wages (70% of the total health spend), we are really not taking the issue seriously...

And I dont know what it is, but most of these high profile socialists seem to be earning more than a lot of capitalists that they like to portray as the devil..

yore

later12 wrote: »

That's none of our business, but this sort of tattle has been a consistent and not very tactfully employed allusion in a lot of media reporting, yes; particularly in the Indo which felt it necessary to cover Mick Wallce's sex life in some considerable detail over the Summer. Didn't half put me off my chips.

Anyway, if it has any relevance at all - and that is extremely tenuous - it does raise some questions about what on Earth the Socialist Party are up to. Perhaps they see fit to pass judgement on whom their representatives have personal relationship with. The Wallace saga is dying down. I can't imagine why it should still have been troubling the Socialist Party moreso than it was last june.

If we still had a contsruction bubble/boom, and the bould Micko was still flying and got an invite to the FF tent at The Galway Races, would her SP brethren be happy to see her swanning around the tent hob-nobbing with the rich and powerful while drinking champagne.....so the company she keeps might seem to be of interest to people.

I'm using this theoretical example because the looney lefties are always the first to jump on the bandwagon whenever politician X is seen on the golf course with Mr. Rich Y.

tayto lover

yore wrote: »

If we still had a contsruction bubble/boom, and the bould Micko was still flying and got an invite to the FF tent at The Galway Races, would her SP brethren be happy to see her swanning around the tent hob-nobbing with the rich and powerful while drinking champagne.....so the company she keeps might seem to be of interest to people.

I'm using this theoretical example because the looney lefties are always the first to jump on the bandwagon whenever politician X is seen on the golf course with Mr. Rich Y.

Or Lenin

Defiler Of The Coffin

yore wrote: »

If we still had a contsruction bubble/boom, and the bould Micko was still flying and got an invite to the FF tent at The Galway Races, would her SP brethren be happy to see her swanning around the tent hob-nobbing with the rich and powerful while drinking champagne.....so the company she keeps might seem to be of interest to people.

I'm using this theoretical example because the looney lefties are always the first to jump on the bandwagon whenever politician X is seen on the golf course with Mr. Rich Y.

Exactly, and it poses a very interesting question as to why Clare Daly is in effect renouncing her socialist ideology by aligning herself with tax evader and property developer Mick Wallace, the very kind that her type were always so quick to criticise!

Why has she thrown her lot in with Wallace? Does she support his politics?! What does she stand for now?

ArmaniJeanss

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

Why has she thrown her lot in with Wallace? Does she support his politics?! What does she stand for now?

His politics aren't a huge problem, on a wide range of issues they are very similar to the Socialist Party.

Jolly Red Giant

I not going to engage with the hacks wetting themselves with glee at their prediction of the demise of the SP

I will clarify one point

Fenian Army wrote: »

I suspect she was "asked to resign"

Clare Daly was not 'asked to resign' - the Socialist Party National Committee made numerous attempts over the past six weeks to resolve the difficulties with Clare Daly and her political defence of Mick Wallace, again attempting to do so this week. Unfortunately Clare Daly decided that her political defence of Wallace was more important to her than her political affiliation with the Socialist Party.

This is undoubtedly a setback for the Socialist Party, but we will work to regain lost ground, including regaining the Socialist Party seat in Dublin North.

Toby Take a Bow

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

His politics aren't a huge problem, on a wide range of issues they are very similar to the Socialist Party.

Clearly they are an issue if, as Jolly Red Giant suggests, they've spent the last six weeks attempting to get Daly to align themselves with their policies.

NIMAN

For me she is a bit hypocritical. No point being very anti-developer and yet support Mick Wallace at the same time.

In fact she is anti-everything as far as I have seen of her, which is an easy job these days as she will get most of the publics support. However she tends to be one of those people who, when asked, doesn't have any answers as how to solve problems in the country. Its easy to throw mud, but harder to come up with solutions.

I would really fear for the country if her like had power.

Min

Paul Murphy did say Clare's "personal relationship" with Mick Wallace which left ideas of what the exact relationship is.

They are well suited anyway, one didn't pay his taxes, both tell people not to pay the household tax.

later12

Fenian Army wrote: »

Its not just a personal relationship though, she has refused to condemn him despite her party doing so also refusing to sign party statements, there is the problem. Her sticking up for him flies against her parties politics and is damaging to them among the grassroots, its not exactly passing judgment on who she has pints with in the pub.

Yes, that's a fair point. We shouldn't jump to the conclusion that the Socialists particularly care about Clare Daly's private friendships.

I was only thinking that because the Socialist Party is so ideologically founded and it's not the sort of friendship you'd imagine would sit easily with them. But as you say, there is a more valid & legitimate point that Daly has refused to tow the party line and that is a problem when it comes to promoting a coherent, intelligible message to the voter.

Min

I wonder how united the ULA are over all of this.

dsmythy

Wallace and The Socialist Party are both involved in tax dodging, more matched than they think.

Also looking at their statement I look forward to The Socialist Party never asking a TD to resign ever again. Up to voters and what not.

dsmythy

Min wrote: »

I wonder how united the ULA are over all of this.

They're calling themselves the LA now.... Clare Daly and a Socialist Party candidate will compete in Dublin North and both lose out because of a split vote.