Democratic National Convention

Dave!

Clin-ton can fairly give a speech! :eek:

joseph brand

Well that was a rousing speech. It was difficult for Bill to contain the crowd. The excitement was palpable.

I particularly enjoyed this part:

“It takes some brass,” Clinton said, “to attack a guy for doing what you did”

Bill Clinton singlehandedly dismantled the Romney-Ryan campaign narrative that President Obama is trying to put an end to Medicare at the Democratic Convention Wednesday night, pointing out that it is in fact the Romney-Ryan proposal for Medicare that would permanently change the program to a depreciating voucher system.

Truth and facts, to Republicans (Tea Partiers esp) are like garlic to blood-sucking vampires. "Blast those fact checkers".

There's just no comparison, between Clinton's prowess on the stage, versus the awkward stiffness of Romney. Romney always looks like he's quietly dealing with a ball of trapped wind in his throat. Maybe it's a ball of lies!

Bill nailed that speech. NAILED IT!!

joseph brand

Fox 'news' aren't happy with the length of Bill's epic speech, nor the supposed mountain of facts. (I think Megyn Kelly prefers balloons and music)

If Romney Ryan didn't tell so many porkies, Clinton's speech could have been shorter. Instead of just talking up Obama, he had to attack all the lies from the other side.

Amerika

joseph brand wrote: »

Another way to help pay for education and public sector jobs would be to implement The Buffet Rule.

Say Obama will run another $1.25 Trillion deficit. The president's lofty goals to spend even more money on education and public sector jobs will cost an additional $??? (fill in any $Billion number you wish). The non-partisan United States Congress Joint Committee on Taxation estimated in March 2012 that the Buffett Rule would raise $46.7 billion over the next 10 years. That's roughly $5 Billion per year. Help me out here... the math just doesn't seem to add up.

Denerick

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I'm doing so deliberately in order to illustrate that in a representative democracy, the state, nation and the government are basically the same thing.

Living in a state, or being part of a nation, does not entail accepting that "we all belong to the government," despite what Democrats evidently believe.

You're entitled to your opinion, but you are wrong. No other way to put it really.

Denerick

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

In fairness, there is a difference between the government and the nation. While every American belongs to the American nation, saying a partiuclar American belongs to the government has a different connotation. It implies that they in some sense support its current direction or any direction it is likely to take. To put it in a context you might sympathize with: if you were born and lived in China would you say you belonged to the government of China? I really doubt it. Just because the United States is a democracy of some kind does not change the point: many people do not believe that their government reflects their values and desires enough to "belong" to it.

The thing about belonging to a nation is that you owe it your allegiance even when you think it is wrong. To dissent from that position is essentially a form of treason. Now its perfectly legitimate to say that you disagree with x, y, z and will refuse to carry out what you see as an unjust law - but you'll go to prison for it, and rightfully so. Even when the law is wrong, the principle of the rule of law is ultimately more important. If everyone simply decided which laws to obey and which not to we would be in a state of anarchy, and quickly descend into that Hobbesian state of nature that frightens us all so much.

You have every right to dissent from the law using legal means, but ultimately since the USA is a democratic republic, representative of the masses, its government, state and its concept of nationhood is essentially the same thing. You cannot say the same about the likes of China as the state and the government is so often at odds with the interests of the nation, it doesn't represent the people and the state is controlled by a narrow clique at the top.

Overheal

Amerika wrote: »

Say Obama will run another $1.25 Trillion deficit. The president's lofty goals to spend even more money on education and public sector jobs will cost an additional $??? (fill in any $Billion number you wish). The non-partisan United States Congress Joint Committee on Taxation estimated in March 2012 that the Buffett Rule would raise $46.7 billion over the next 10 years. That's roughly $5 Billion per year. Help me out here... the math just doesn't seem to add up.

You're touching on pretty dangerous ground with Arithmetic here. Bill said this last night. Why don't you instead help me understand things that don't add up: Romney-Ryan wants to cut taxes AND they want to raise military spending by $2 Trillion above what the Pentagon is even requesting, without any declaration of what the money would be for.

How does THAT add up? Use of a calculator is permitted.

Brit Hume wrote:

“He speaks of such things, and always has, with command and comfort – and you sensed that he knows what he’s talking about – he’s always been very comfortable with policy detail. So when he packs a speech with that, it adds some weight to the speech… the problem is it adds length, and adds complexity.”

Oh no, complexity. The Americuns' won't understand it. God forbid. Instead, let's continue to drive "You Didn't Build That" while ignoring the 'overly complex' nature of the truth about what Obama actually had said.

As the Romney campaign put it, "We won't let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers." Damn those facts.

southsiderosie

I kind of agree though - I thought Clinton's speech ran too long and got too wonky. He started off great, but it was about 10-12 minutes too long.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Memnoch

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Except when large corporations and wealthy individuals can corrupt the purpose of government so that rather than serving the people who elected them it serves those with the most money.

Quite ironic coming from Mitt. Since he belongs to the later class. More tax cuts for those with the most, hurrah for 'OUR' government.

Valmont

Memnoch wrote: »

Except when large corporations and wealthy individuals can corrupt the purpose of government so that rather than serving the people who elected them it serves those with the most money.

I wonder who established the 'corporation' as a legal entity in the first place?

Denerick

Valmont wrote: »

I wonder who established the 'corporation' as a legal entity in the first place?

Irrelevant.

joseph brand

Valmont wrote: »

I wonder who established the 'corporation' as a legal entity in the first place?

lol, corporations originally had one job "we establish this corporation to build a bridge" - the corporations today are nothing like they were to begin with.

Duck Soup

Rumoured - though not officially confirmed, as they're keeping some surprise speakers up their sleeve - line-up today includes:

* Charlie Crist, Former Republican Governor of Florida

* Caroline Kennedy, Author and daughter of former President John F. Kennedy

* John Nathman, Admiral (ret.)

* Annise Parker, Mayor of Houston, Texas

* Brian Schweitzer, Governor of Montana

* John Kerry, Senior Senator for Massachusetts

* Joe Biden, Vice-President of the United States

* Barack Obama, President of the United States

Celebrity guests rumoured to be making an appearance: Natalie Portman (although latest reports say that's unlikely now), Kerry Washington, Scarlett Johansson and Eva Longoria.

CBS gives the prime time speaking schedule as:

8 PM Caroline Kennedy, Eva Langoria.

9 PM John Kerry

9.30 PM Joe Biden

10.00 PM President Obama

Overheal

Reminder: The top 1% Earn >$506,000 annually.

Duck Soup

Gabby Gifford said to be leading the recitation of the pledge of allegiance tonight at 9PM.

Brian?

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Well done on completely missing my point. We belong to the government and it belongs to us. In a democracy the government is the direct expression of the will of the people.

At least it should be.

southsiderosie

Duck Soup wrote: »

8 PM Caroline Kennedy, Eva Langoria.

9 PM John Kerry

9.30 PM Joe Biden

10.00 PM President Obama

Urg. Tuesday's lineup was way better than this crew.

Brian?

southsiderosie wrote: »

Duck Soup wrote: »

8 PM Caroline Kennedy, Eva Langoria.

9 PM John Kerry

9.30 PM Joe Biden

10.00 PM President Obama

Urg. Tuesday's lineup was way better than this crew.

I can't wait to hear Joe Biden. I really hope he ad libs a little. GOP supporters like to paint him as a buffoon but they couldn't be more wrong.

Brian?

Duck Soup wrote: »

Rumoured - though not officially confirmed, as they're keeping some surprise speakers up their sleeve - line-up today includes:

* Charlie Crist, Former Republican Governor of Florida

* Caroline Kennedy, Author and daughter of former President John F. Kennedy

* John Nathman, Admiral (ret.)

* Annise Parker, Mayor of Houston, Texas

* Brian Schweitzer, Governor of Montana

* John Kerry, Senior Senator for Massachusetts

* Joe Biden, Vice-President of the United States

* Barack Obama, President of the United States

Celebrity guests rumoured to be making an appearance: Natalie Portman (although latest reports say that's unlikely now), Kerry Washington, Scarlett Johansson and Eva Longoria.

CBS gives the prime time speaking schedule as:

8 PM Caroline Kennedy, Eva Langoria.

9 PM John Kerry

9.30 PM Joe Biden

10.00 PM President Obama

All eastern time?

Duck Soup

southsiderosie wrote: »

Urg. Tuesday's lineup was way better than this crew.

I'm guessing the idea is that no one is to overshadow the headliner. Joe Biden's a decent warm-up man though - good speaker, connects with the blue-collar crowd. I'd expect the hall to love him.

Also thought this poster was cool:

Duck Soup

briankeating wrote: »

All eastern time?

Yep. The original text I cut and pasted from had ET after all the times.

20Cent

Pouring rain there now apparently, good job they moved indoors.

southsiderosie

briankeating wrote: »

I can't wait to hear Joe Biden. I really hope he ad libs a little. GOP supporters like to paint him as a buffoon but they couldn't be more wrong.

He can deliver a punch line, but he often isn't good at stepping back afterwards. But his Rudy Giuliani "a noun, a verb, and 9/11" barb was brilliant.

I like Joe Biden though - I've said it before in this forum, but he kind of reminds me of a favorite uncle that says crazy **** at Thanksgiving, teaches you dirty jokes, and then slips you a $20 with a wink on the way out the door. He certainly has a sense of humor about his TransAm.

Amerika

I didn't see the convention last night, but it seems the general partisan consensus from my side pretty much boils down to: Being a woman is not a preexisting condition... Huh? Warren lamented about the condition of her middle class tribe at the hands of the great pumpkin. Fluke showed us I am woman, hear me roar has been replaced with I am needy, give me more. The Democrat's showy facade came down, and we got to see the real party faithful having a problem (and got the vote wrong in the process) with God in the government... Guess that's because they believe the Government is god. Bill Clinton was good, and the Zombie Nation bought his fantasies hook, line and sinker (even if Bill didn't believe them himself). But Clinton has proved he is a loyal Democrat, and not afraid to put Party over the good of the nation.

Overheal

Amerika wrote: »

Bill Clinton was good, and the Zombie Nation bought his fantasies hook, line and sinker (even if Bill didn't believe them himself). But Clinton has proved he is a loyal Democrat, and not afraid to put Party over the good of the nation.

Sources? Substance? Supporting arguments?

Brian?

Amerika wrote: »

Bill Clinton was good, and the Zombie Nation bought his fantasies hook, line and sinker (even if Bill didn't believe them himself). But Clinton has proved he is a loyal Democrat, and not afraid to put Party over the good of the nation.

I see you harping on about deficits and spending so much I had assumed Bill Clinton was your idol as he created budget surplusses. Isn't that what you want?

I'm intrigued to know what you believe were fantasies and what proof you have. Guessing you have zero proof as usual, just the occasional snappy one liner and piles of conjecture.

Amerika

I noted I didn't watch the convention last night, but with all the glowing endorsements here, I thought some might be interested in the take on day two of the DNC convention from the partisan opposition. I'll go over the speeches at a later time, and will be able to give my perspective.

And I hear the weather is beautiful now down in Charlotte, NC.

Overheal

Amerika wrote: »

I noted I didn't watch the convention last night, but with all the glowing endorsements here, I thought some might be interested in the take on day two of the DNC convention from the partisan opposition. I'll go over the speeches at a later time, and will be able to give my perspective.

Hold the f*ck up.

You just said:

Bill Clinton was good, and the Zombie Nation bought his fantasies hook, line and sinker (even if Bill didn't believe them himself). But Clinton has proved he is a loyal Democrat, and not afraid to put Party over the good of the nation.

And now you're saying not only did you not watch the DNC, but you have neither seen nor read over the speeches?

How are you even commenting on Clinton's speech then? How are you commenting intelligibly on "Zombie Nation"'s and what Bill Clinton believes and what he proved?

Also: I'm still waiting for your math.

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

And now you're saying not only did you not watch the DNC, but you have neither seen nor read over the speeches.

How are you even commenting on Clinton's speech then? How are you commenting intelligibly on "Zombie Nation"'s and what Bill Clinton believes and what he proved?

I have seen snippets, and have read and watched commentary from my side of the political isle.

Also: I'm still waiting for your math.

I'm also still waiting for answers.

Overheal

Amerika wrote: »

I have seen snippets, and have read and watched commentary from my side of the political isle.

Yes, I heard schnidt on the radio this afternoon, briefly. He'd play a clip, then he'd rant about the 20 seconds of speech for 5 minutes, placing meanings that weren't there to begin with. He was also very fond of Obama's "1-term proposition" clip and using it like a verbal contract. I in fact like the larger point in Bill's speech, if you care to watch it: that even though Bill himself inherited a GOP mess, and managed to turn it around, that the facts and figures of the mess the GOP left in 2008 simply couldn't have been turned around by anybody in only 4 years. Looked at in that light you could argue the president was either being too ambitious or too hard on himself when he said it would be a 1-term proposition.

I suggest that instead of letting your political punditry spoonfeed you the parts they want to feed you ("You didn't build that!") and then supply reams and reams of their own commentary to go with it, I suggest you first as a logical, dignified, and independently-thinking human being, go watch the speech.

Amerika

Overhead, I said I will when time allows. I'm watching it live right now on C-SPAN.

John Kerry is on right now. Did you know he is a veteran?

Overheal

PJ, don't call me Overhead.

Brian?

Amerika wrote: »

Overhead, I said I will when time allows. I'm watching it live right now on C-SPAN.

John Kerry is on right now. Did you know he is a veteran?

Not just a veteran. A highly decorated one. Show some respect, the man put his life on the line for his country.

If there's one thing thats supposed to be truly bipartisan it's respect for veterans, the way some GOP supporters treat Kerry is a disgrace. I hop you're not one of them.

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

PJ, don't call me Overhead.

Sorry, my bad. The name posted wrong... Dang autocorrect on this smartphone.

Amerika

briankeating wrote: »

Amerika wrote: »

Overhead, I said I will when time allows. I'm watching it live right now on C-SPAN.

John Kerry is on right now. Did you know he is a veteran?

Not just a veteran. A highly decorated one. Show some respect, the man put his life on the line for his country.

If there's one thing thats supposed to be truly bipartisan it's respect for veterans, the way some GOP supporters treat Kerry is a disgrace. I hop you're not one of them.

I guess my humor is too 2004ish.

Overheal

Amerika wrote: »

Sorry, my bad. The name posted wrong... Dang autocorrect on this smartphone.

That it will do.

Brian?

Amerika wrote: »

briankeating wrote: »

Amerika wrote: »

Overhead, I said I will when time allows. I'm watching it live right now on C-SPAN.

John Kerry is on right now. Did you know he is a veteran?

Not just a veteran. A highly decorated one. Show some respect, the man put his life on the line for his country.

If there's one thing thats supposed to be truly bipartisan it's respect for veterans, the way some GOP supporters treat Kerry is a disgrace. I hop you're not one of them.

I guess my humor is too 2004ish.

It wasn't funny then either.

Overheal

@Biden: nothing is wrong with the sentiment of sending underprivileged kids to college. Unfortunately though, the system is fuxxored because colleges just raise the tuition knowing full well the government will chase after it with grants.

It should probably be made law that Tuition is to be only for the cost of your education (or 85%, the same rule as in Obamacare on premiums) and if colleges want to charge students more money for fancy facilities and pools and spas they need to separate these charges and fees.

southsiderosie

Favorite FB comment on Biden: "He's definitely all heart, even if he has a lot of lung".

joseph brand

briankeating wrote: »

Not just a veteran. A highly decorated one. Show some respect, the man put his life on the line for his country.

If there's one thing thats supposed to be truly bipartisan it's respect for veterans, the way some GOP supporters treat Kerry is a disgrace. I hop you're not one of them.

I don't know if he's as highly decorated as Romney. When he's dressed as a mormon bishop. Oooooh Yeaaahhh!!

Of course we all know Romney was sipping sparkling wine water and gazing at the Eiffel Tower while his fellow countrymen were being blown to bits. Mormonism does have it's god points.

Speaking of religion, Sister Simone Campbell spoke at the DNC in support of Medicare.

Just realised my post might read as though I were arguing your point. I'm not.

20Cent

Here's Joe Bidens speech:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjcqWKEpiMo&feature=player_embedded#!
Obama
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101755530

Both very good,

Duck Soup

A solid, rather than spectacular, speech from Obama but a politically smart one I think. People aren't in the mood for grand promises - given the global economic climate, they would ring untrue from either candidate - so the pitch last night was about consolidation.

Without going into a Clinton-like point-by-point analysis, he set up it up as a choice election. Do you want to hold onto the reforms in healthcare that enable people with pre-existing conditions to get insurance? Do you want to reform Medicare or turn it into Vouchercare? Do you want to go into further foreign adventures in Iran (and get belligerent with Russia) or finally finish in Iraq and Afghanistan? Do you want the stronger regulation on big finance that Dodd Frank brings or do you want to give them free rein again?

Biden was very good. Folksy, a few zinger lines, Biden at his best. Jennifer Granholm was, ahem, entertaining. Gabby Gifford leading the Pledge of Allegiance was one of the most genuinely moving moments I've ever seen at any political convention. A remarkable woman and a remarkable moment.

Amerika

The part with Gabby Gifford was very touching. Most of the other speeches had nothing noteworthy IMO.

Joe Biden’s Speech.
Nothing really sticks in my mind about it afterward, except that he was a local boy from up the pike. And my final takeaway is Clint Eastwood was right… "Kind of a grin with a body behind it."

Barack Obama’s Speech.
My impression was his speech didn’t seem to have the flair of the 2008 DNC convention speech. But he did his job and rallied his base. Lots of goals and not much substance. But substance isn’t important in these convention speeches, and better kept for the debates. Seems a lot of the same old regurgitation of past promises that didn’t work. I don't think it did anything for the "Undecideds" (those are keen to what is going on, anyway). Sort of like the captain of the Titanic telling the passengers and crew after hitting the iceberg that it was still full steam ahead, and not to worry because there are enough lifeboats for everyone.

Cardinal Timothy Dolan’s Benediction to close the Democratic National Convention
Most probably didn’t get to see it unless you were watching C-SPAN or FoxNews. I noticed CNN and MSNBC talked over his benediction and viewers never got to hear him. And I guess for good reason because of "We ask your benediction on those waiting to be born, that they may be welcomed and protected." And his allusion to same-sex marriage with "Show us anew that happiness is found only in respecting the laws of nature and of nature’s God. Empower us with your grace so that we might resist the temptation to replace the moral law with idols of our own making, or to remake those institutions you have given us for the nurturing of life and community." Not exactly on DNC message.

Dave!

When are the debates? Must be soon! The election's November, right?? :eek:

Gotta love elections!

joseph brand

John Kerry:
“For Mitt Romney, an overseas trip is what you call it when you trip all over yourself overseas,” he said. “It wasn’t a goodwill mission — it was a blooper reel.”

“Folks: Sarah Palin said she could see Russia from Alaska; Mitt Romney talks like he’s only seen Russia by watching Rocky IV,” Mr. Kerry said

Amerika

Dave! wrote: »

When are the debates? Must be soon! The election's November, right?? :eek:

Gotta love elections!

First presidential debate:
Wednesday, October 3, 2012
University of Denver, Denver, CO
Vice presidential debate:
Thursday, October 11, 2012
Centre College, Danville, KY
Second presidential debate (town meeting format):
Tuesday, October 16, 2012
Hofstra University, Hempstead, NY
Third presidential debate:
Monday, October 22, 2012
Lynn University, Boca Raton, FL

Amerika

joseph brand wrote: »

John Kerry:
“Folks: Sarah Palin said she could see Russia from Alaska; Mitt Romney talks like he’s only seen Russia by watching Rocky IV,” Mr. Kerry said

Hmmm... Sarah Palin never said that. Care to call Kerry a liar?

joseph brand

Amerika wrote: »

The part with Gabby Gifford was very touching. Most of the other speeches had nothing noteworthy IMO.

Joe Biden’s Speech.
Nothing really sticks in my mind about it afterward, except that he was a local boy from up the pike. And my final takeaway is Clint Eastwood was right… "Kind of a grin with a body behind it."

You found no fault with Biden's speech? Praise indeed, coming from yourself.

Republican Chair-man; Clint Eastwood, was never known for his wit.

Amerika

LOL... Do you think the DNC could supply me with names and phone numbers?