Oculus Rift

Dyr

http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/5/5684236/oculus-wants-to-build-a-billion-person-mmo-with-facebook

I'm. So. Excited

Brian

I read Snow Crash to educate myself a bit about the mythology of VR and what's inspiring it. What I'm curious about is how faces are going to work. You can't do a virtual video conference if everyone's face is covered with a HMD (or even just their eyes). Perhaps eye-tracking will be part of it, but there will still have to be CG involved.

jumbobreakfast

I think eye tracking is a huge part of why Facebook bought oculus. We won't see it for a few years on the Oculus rift but when it comes your eyes will be working for facebook to make the viewing of subtle and not so subtle adverts unavoidable. I'm not sure of the science behind the benefits of why eye-tracking will improve the VR experience but I guess it will mimic reality better. It's not all concerning news because in the short term we will benefit from a better consumer version than initially planned and VR in general will take a major leap forward.

C14N

Bambi wrote: »

http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/5/5684236/oculus-wants-to-build-a-billion-person-mmo-with-facebook

I'm. So. Excited

So does this mean Oculus are planning on making software when they've finished with the Rift?

Dyr

C14N wrote: »

So does this mean Oculus are planning on making software when they've finished with the Rift?

It means oculus plan on making second life: facebook edition rather than anything decent

C14N

Bambi wrote: »

It means oculus plan on making second life: facebook edition rather than anything decent

Is the Oculus Rift hardware not decent?

Dyr

Decent prototype, but possibly never a decent release version now

C14N

Bambi wrote: »

Decent prototype, but possibly never a decent release version now

Why not? They're hardly going to can it at this point, I don't think Marky Z would be too happy to see his $2bn investment go to waste, it's too far gone to just turn into vapourware.

Dyr

oh it wont go to waste, but I would doubt very much that what zuckerburg has in mind is anything like what us poor saps got excited about in the first place, which is why you're now seeing these hoors enthusing about a massively multiplayer experience (note: not a "massively mulitplayer GAME")


Facebook do data collection and data selling, that's what oculus is going to plug into now

C14N

Bambi wrote: »

oh it wont go to waste, but I would doubt very much that what zuckerburg has in mind is anything like what us poor saps got excited about in the first place, which is why you're now seeing these hoors enthusing about a massively multiplayer experience (note: not a "massively mulitplayer GAME")


Facebook do data collection and data selling, that's what oculus is going to plug into now

Well considering it looks to be nearly finished and how all reports indicate Facebook taking a strong hands-off policy with the hardware I wouldn't say there's much to worry about with regards to Zuckerberg meddling with the device. I wasn't expecting Oculus to make any games at all, if they make a crappy one it really makes no difference. Also, this MMO is still a completely hypothetical idea that they're just tossing around. It will be years after the hardware is released before this comes out.

Dyr

Actually something I've been wondering with zenimax sueing the arse off them, Valve handed oculus a whole bunch of VR research free of charge on some understanding. With the facebook deal will valve wind up suing them also depending on what path facebook take

Dyr

C14N wrote: »

Well considering it looks to be nearly finished and how all reports indicate Facebook taking a strong hands-off policy with the hardware I wouldn't say there's much to worry about with regards to Zuckerberg meddling with the device. I wasn't expecting Oculus to make any games at all, if they make a crappy one it really makes no difference. Also, this MMO is still a completely hypothetical idea that they're just tossing around. It will be years after the hardware is released before this comes out.

They are'nt tossing ideas around, they're roadmapping. "f you let go, you can have a real conversation with a person. That's the holy grail we're trying to get to." That to me sounds like a massive fork from where oculus was going before facebook steamed in, and tbh I'd be suprised if any resource now gets put into any other path

So yeah dev kit 2 will be released and then radio silence with a very different facerift device being released at a later date than planned with integrated facebook login :pac:

gizmo

I don't understand the confusion here, all Oculus need to do is two things, release good hardware and maintain their SDK to a high standard, preferably keeping it open too.

Regardless of where they go with software development internally, doing the above is still in their best interests in the long term. Getting the device into as many hands as possible will be their primary goal and I'm sure they're quite aware that shipping it in blue and white colours with a mandatory Facebook login screen on boot isn't the way to go about it.

5uspect

Brian wrote: »

I read Snow Crash to educate myself a bit about the mythology of VR and what's inspiring it. What I'm curious about is how faces are going to work. You can't do a virtual video conference if everyone's face is covered with a HMD (or even just their eyes). Perhaps eye-tracking will be part of it, but there will still have to be CG involved.

All aboard the Zuckerberg Raft.

C14N

Bambi wrote: »

They are'nt tossing ideas around, they're roadmapping. "f you let go, you can have a real conversation with a person. That's the holy grail we're trying to get to." That to me sounds like a massive fork from where oculus was going before facebook steamed in, and tbh I'd be suprised if any resource now gets put into any other path

So yeah dev kit 2 will be released and then radio silence with a very different facerift device being released at a later date than planned with integrated facebook login :pac:

The thing about forks is that they keep going in the original direction as well as a new one. Just because some people use it for video calling doesn't mean all of the gaming stuff up to this point becomes undone. The resources are presumably being put into having good eye and head tracking and making sure images sync up in a way to not make users feel nauseated. They need that regardless of what purpose its for. Oculus were never the ones making games in the first place. And it really is just an idea at this point, it will require the hardware to be finished to actually work and even if they started working on it the moment after the buyout, that's only given them enough time to start outlining plans at this point.

I also don't see how any "forced Facebook login" would even be possible. As far as I'm aware, the Rift is basically just a small PC monitor taped to your face. It takes it's inputs from the HDMI cable and the head tracker. There really isn't an easy way to put a step between video out and video in to force unnecessary Facebook stuff in. I'd imagine any Facebook related stuff down the line will just come from your computer.

I just don't see why the idea that the OR could have other uses bothers so many people. Did everyone really think this was going to be forever used for games and nothing else? I mean my PC is also very good with multimedia stuff and social networking, it doesn't change the fact that it's a great gaming device.

Duggy747

Got around to testing GTA IV properly this time, put on a first-person mod with More Liberty v3 mod which vastly increases the traffic and pedestrians.

I just spent 2 hours driving and walking about the place. Walking down the street in between loads of pedestrians and looking up at the skyscrapers is really cool experience. Whatever about the game, Liberty City really was constructed quite well and really feels like a living city in first-person view. Waiting at the traffic lights and crossing the street with a shed load of people beside you and coming towards you is a strange feeling :pac:

You do need a powerful machine for it though, since GTA is a pile of poorly optimised crap. The game will actually run worse if you turn down the settings since the CPU will try and do everything as opposed to finding a good middle-ground where resources are then off-loaded onto the GPU.

Another problem is you actually can't use the Xbox controller with the Rift at the same time, beyond walking.............unless it's some compatibility with my Gamestop one, but it works for everything perfectly and GTA 4 normally.

If you try moving your head and the right analog at the same time then the turning movement is cancelled out causing this horrible stutter like it's running out of batteries. If you're driving, the right trigger cancels out the Rift so you can only look around from inside the car when you take your finger off it.

Essentially, since the Rift acts like the mouse it's the same as trying to play the game with a mouse & controller, so they cancel each other out when used at the same time.

Stupid designs flaws and the fact that it's so power hungry stop it from being one of the best Rift experiences out there, but it's still pretty good to just walk and take in the impressive sights.

Doge

Oh man, GTA would be so much better if a first person view was an option.

The least rockstar could have done is giving us a cockpit view since GTA 3!

Even Commodore 64 games like the original Test Drive had a cockpit view ffs!

Duggy747

Just adding actually that GTA 4 runs perfect on high settings normally but the framerate goes down on my PC to 25-30fps because I'm running it through Tridef 3D. My machine isn't of the highest spec but it's no sloutch either, GTA really does suck the life out of a machine.

Obviously because I'm used to the Rift I don't get any nausea but can't say the same for everybody else with the drop in framerate, it doesn't bother me at all and it's not that bad, it's the controller refusing to work right with the Rift which bothers me more.

I'll be doing a few more tweaks to squeeze more fps out of it.

Shadows are to be kept off since they're distorted and only show up in one eye and draw distance will utterly destroy the framerate but you don't need it that high because of the obvious limitation of the Rift's screen. Running at 1920x1080 or higher makes a big difference as opposed to 1280x720, irons out the jaggedness and cleans the image up a huge amount. Added some command lines which gave a tiny but noticeable increase in performance, too.

Again, you just have to find a perfect balance on your machine as putting all settings to low will actually be worse for performance.

Can't wait to play more tonight, feels like I have to have a proper tour of the city and parks.

Jerichoholic

Are you using VorpX? Anytime I've tried anything with that I have to give up because even trying to configure it's settings makes me instantly sick.

EDIT: NM I see you are using the other thing.

Duggy747

Using TriDef, I tried out the 14-day trial and then bought it since I figured I'd need it down the line, glad I bought it.

It worked with a lot of games, played Stanley Parable through it, and was a lot easier to tinker around with that I was lead to believe; You bring up a menu in-game and can tweak everything from FOV, tracking sensitivity to get it just right, to the size of the screen.

Just add a game (If it's supported, it supports a huge amount of games) and away you go.

EDIT: Except in the case of GTA, actually. You have to move dsound.dll out of GTA's root folder into another folder, start the game where Rockstar Login shows up, copy dsound.dll back into GTA's root folder and click Play. Otherwise it gives off a SecurROM error and crashes.

Would like to try Episodes from Liberty City but I don't think it's possible due to the way Windows Live refuses you to play the game while using the Rift.

This fùckin' game was ported so arseways, it was even a pain to install through Steam the first time :pac:

Dyr

C14N wrote: »

The thing about forks is that they keep going in the original direction as well as a new one.

Unfortunately they don't always, the new direction often has all the resources thrown into it and the original path slowly becomes incompatible

C14N wrote: »

I also don't see how any "forced Facebook login" would even be possible.

I was joking but it is certainly feasible if they wanted to and not that hard to imagine given that facebook makes its money by tracking your behaviour.

Doge

What sort of witchcraft does TriDef use to make things 3D!

I see it can work with 2D games, dvds, movies etc.. too!


Duggy you could make a batch file to automate the process of moving the file.

Use the xcopy command to move the file
Launch the .exe
To make it pause for a certain amount of time use this line:
ping -n 30 127.0.0.1
You can adjust 30 for the amount of pings you want, you could calculate the correct amount with a stop watch
Use xcopy to move the file back.

Duggy747

waveform wrote: »

What sort of witchcraft does TriDef use to make things 3D!

I see it can work with 2D games, dvds, movies etc.. too!


Duggy you could make a batch file to automate the process of moving the file.

Use the xcopy command to move the file
Launch the .exe
To make it pause for a certain amount of time use this line:
ping -n 30 127.0.0.1
You can adjust 30 for the amount of pings you want, you could calculate the correct amount with a stop watch
Use xcopy to move the file back.

Never even thought of making a batch :pac:

Tridef just essentially uses side-by-side for the Rift, like how Rift-native games are set up, it has a dedicated option for it.

Just noticed there that the author of the first-person mod for GTA actually updated it to support the Rift HERE I've been using the old version which emulates the mouse so this could hopefully fix the controller problem

C14N

Bambi wrote: »

Unfortunately they don't always, the new direction often has all the resources thrown into it and the original path slowly becomes incompatible

But the point is that all we need is good hardware. The things that gamers want (i.e. accurate head tracking, clear display, fast response times) are things that everyone wants. The software side is taken care of by the game developers and nobody is going to actively stop them from doing so.

Bambi wrote: »

I was joking but it is certainly feasible if they wanted to and not that hard to imagine given that facebook makes its money by tracking your behaviour.

That's how their website makes money but this is a whole new world for Facebook. I'd say they will try and work out something like that but I'm sure they're planning on making a lot off selling SDKs so that more people can easily create new applications for the device. It's still in very early stages as a new gadget and it's hard to know if it will take off in fields outside of gaming. Like with smartphones and tablets, it will largely depend on what sort of stuff people can think up to use it for.

I actually hope it does gain some non-gaming traction because as a gaming-focused device it has very limited appeal. If it manages to appeal to nearly everybody then that will stir up a lot more competition and make it financially viable to keep working on it. If it's just going to be for playing PC games and making them look cool, it will just be a small-time gimmick that will sell maybe 1 million units if it does very well that will most likely just fizzle out over a few years.

Dyr

Duggy747 wrote: »

Never even thought of making a batch :pac:

Tridef just essentially uses side-by-side for the Rift, like how Rift-native games are set up, it has a dedicated option for it.

Just noticed there that the author of the first-person mod for GTA actually updated it to support the Rift HERE I've been using the old version which emulates the mouse so this could hopefully fix the controller problem

Did you have to mess around with the values in the first person mod ini files? I've been having a bash at this but the head tracking wont work and the screens are out of synch causing double vision

Duggy747

Ok, got the newer first person mod v1.3 and it works much better, I can actually walk down the street and move my head independently. Movement is fixed properly since the author managed to de-couple the Rift from the mouse so it works directly off it so the controller doesn't stutter when I move my head, driving is much more immersive now.

Right analog is disabled so you use left analog for a different type of movement which is strange at first but you get used to it. This setup is more for wandering around the city rather than actually playing missions, really. A lot of people don't like v1.3 but for the Rift it does the job, rather than just using the mod for normal play which you should just stick to v1.2

Bambi wrote: »

Did you have to mess around with the values in the first person mod ini files? I've been having a bash at this but the head tracking wont work and the screens are out of synch causing double vision

No, just threw the files into the GTA root folder, didn't touch anything.

Loaded up GTA, had to turn Track Yaw and Pitch and Track Roll off under Headtracking in the Numpad 0 menu, restart the game so the mod can access the Rift rather than Tridef, go into firstperson view and it worked straight away.

For the double vision you have to bring the World Scale in the Numpad 0 menu all the way down so it makes the view normal.

The thing about Tridef is not all games will be good to go immediately, some need minor tweaks through the in-game menu but you only have to do that once for a game since the settings will be saved. It only takes a minute or 2 once you know your preference for how you like the Rift to act in games.

I went to "Times Square" to have a gawk around during the night, looks the biz. What really sold it was I got a phone call (in real life, not Roman :pac:) and I took it while still wearing the headset.

Without realising it, I ended up acting like I normally did while talking on the phone; Standing on the pavement staring down at my feet, looking at the traffic, and watching people go by...........looking away when they made eye-contact with me so as not to look weird :pac: It was surreal when I copped what I was doing and remembered I was just in a game.

Still love my Rift.

Kirby

Duggy747 wrote: »

I went to "Times Square" to have a gawk around during the night, looks the biz. What really sold it was I got a phone call (in real life, not Roman :pac:) and I took it while still wearing the headset.

So it wasn't your cousin asking you to go bowling?

Skerries

Taylor365

So how much is DK2 costing for people in total?

Dyr

Duggy747 wrote: »

Loaded up GTA, had to turn Track Yaw and Pitch and Track Roll off under Headtracking in the Numpad 0 menu, restart the game so the mod can access the Rift rather than Tridef, go into firstperson view and it worked straight away.

For the double vision you have to bring the World Scale in the Numpad 0 menu all the way down so it makes the view normal.

I think my problem is the tridef in game menu is missing a lot of options that are meant to be there from looking at other peoples posts. Deffo no headtracking options anyway

Must have a look again later on because while GTA bores the ****e out of me i think liberty city is an amazing environment