Oculus Rift

drunkmonkey

What's the major advantage of seeing the real wheel, you've got the real wheel in your hands and your brain is seeing the virtually wheel that moves exactly like the real one your holding, your brain doesn't mind, it sees it and it can feel it therefore it's real.
Think what your hoping sims will be like in VR they already are.

Doge

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What's the major advantage of seeing the real wheel, you've got the real wheel in your hands and your brain is seeing the virtually wheel that moves exactly like the real one your holding, your brain doesn't mind, it sees it and it can feel it therefore it's real.
Think what your hoping sims will be like in VR they already are.

The wheel is fine, but not being able to see the H- pattern gearshifter or handbrake if you have one is a serious disadvantage! Trying to "find" them blind with your hands would only slow you down.

It was one of Darren from Inside Sim Racing's biggest criticisms of the DK2 in this review:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJHL8yOutnc

Currently a green screen would be the easiest way to accomplish this if it was possible with the HTC Vive.
Trying to map the position of your handbrake and gear shifter, and have it correspond in the VR cockpit sounds like too much work, and thats before you even introduce hand tracking so you can see the position of your hands in VR.

An AR overlay would be THE way to go for now.

Doge

I forgot about the buttons on wheel also, its going to be hard to press them blind also.

lmimmfn

Doge wrote: »

The wheel is fine, but not being able to see the H- pattern gearshifter or handbrake if you have one is a serious disadvantage! Trying to "find" them blind with your hands would only slow you down.

It was one of Darren from Inside Sim Racing's biggest criticisms of the DK2 in this review:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJHL8yOutnc

Currently a green screen would be the easiest way to accomplish this if it was possible with the HTC Vive.
Trying to map the position of your handbrake and gear shifter, and have it correspond in the VR cockpit sounds like too much work, and thats before you even introduce hand tracking so you can see the position of your hands in VR.

An AR overlay would be THE way to go for now.

I don't understand this( finding the shifter ), I mean your hand is on the shifter full time when racing. Buttons on the wheel is simply something you learn and its not worth some elaborate AR type solution

jumbobreakfast

All Valve have to do is to allow you to add sensors to any object that you want tracked and provide a modding framework where you can create a 3d model of the object that can be used in the game. Then you could have precisely accurate representations of anything including steering wheels, gear sticks, coffee mugs etc

Techniques07

Doge wrote: »

I forgot about the buttons on wheel also, its going to be hard to press them blind also.

Have you used VR and a wheel yet? I played a hell of a lot of euro truck sim with the DK's and played some assetto corsa also and never found it hard to find the buttons or gears needed to do stuff in game. In euro truck I needed every single button available on the G27 and it was never an issue.

lmimmfn

jumbobreakfast wrote: »

All Valve have to do is to allow you to add sensors to any object that you want tracked and provide a modding framework where you can create a 3d model of the object that can be used in the game. Then you could have precisely accurate representations of anything including steering wheels, gear sticks, coffee mugs etc

Yeah but those would need the dev to created 3d representations of those objects in game. Then there's the issue of gears, if you're in right hand drive but your gears are on the left or if like me you have the gearstick mounted to the table it won't match the location in game etc.

Some xbone kinect(s) would be a great way to bring real life objects into VR but its more suited to sandbox type games than sim setup, there's some videos on YouTube showing this, I think it was only 360 kinects, it was rough but very impressive

Dyr

jumbobreakfast wrote: »

All Valve have to do is to allow you to add sensors to any object that you want tracked and provide a modding framework where you can create a 3d model of the object that can be used in the game. Then you could have precisely accurate representations of anything including steering wheels, gear sticks, coffee mugs etc

Yeah that's essentially what I said, the wheel joystick identify's itself to the vive and is then mapped in the game, I don't think it would need to be tracked using the lighthouses just have it's position in the real world noted at the start and then let the wheels own output to the PC feed into the vive for tracking

Still be easier to use the controllers instead.

Dyr

That said I've used the DK1 one with a flight sim yoke and quadrant (not even a proper wheel) for eurotruck and I never needed to see the wheel or quadrant in the real world, I know where everything is

Doge

lmimmfn wrote: »

I don't understand this( finding the shifter ), I mean your hand is on the shifter full time when racing. Buttons on the wheel is simply something you learn and its not worth some elaborate AR type solution

I definitely don't use one hand on the wheel anyway, and I doubt rally drivers do!

Do you play Dirt Rally with one hand for instance?

I can't see how that would be comfortable especially when you need to wrestle the Wheel.

Each to their own I suppose...

Doge

Techniques07 wrote: »

Have you used VR and a wheel yet? I played a hell of a lot of euro truck sim with the DK's and played some assetto corsa also and never found it hard to find the buttons or gears needed to do stuff in game. In euro truck I needed every single button available on the G27 and it was never an issue.

Not yet, I was just taking Darrens word for it that it's an issue.

I'm glad to hear it hadn't been an issue for you guys anyway.

I still think the AR and green screen would be awesome though!

Even just for showing your recorded videos on YouTube.

It might be a while yet before they can get your hands and controls tracked and modelled well enough for a VR only solution.

lmimmfn

Doge wrote: »

I definitely don't use one hand on the wheel anyway, and I doubt rally drivers do!

Do you play Dirt Rally with one hand for instance?

I can't see how that would be comfortable especially when you need to wrestle the Wheel.

Each to their own I suppose...

Actually don't have Dirt Rally as I stopped buying Codemaster games with VR support as after release they'd never update to the latest SDK so your investment was lost, e.g. they never updated Dirt Ralley to Oculus SDK 1.3 yet so it's not possible to play it in CV1 out of the box. Their VR support for Grid Autosport and Toybox turbos has been busted for years. At least from now on the SDK is backwards compatible.

I get your point with rally sims and the strong FFB but with Dirt 3 and my old tripple screen setup id never look where the gearstick was, just grab it without thinking.

You get used to it trust me

drunkmonkey

Doge wrote: »

Not yet, I was just taking Darrens word for it that it's an issue.

I'm glad to hear it hadn't been an issue for you guys anyway.

I still think the AR and green screen would be awesome though!

Even just for showing your recorded videos on YouTube.

It might be a while yet before they can get your hands and controls tracked and modelled well enough for a VR only solution.

This is worth a watch Dodge especially from about 15 minutes on as he talks about what your on about and how Dev's could do it easily enough with the Vive, he's a DK2 and the Vive and talk in depth about them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9uXUjpSsak

edward2222

drunkmonkey wrote: »

This is worth a watch Dodge especially from about 15 minutes on as he talks about what your on about and how Dev's could do it easily enough with the Vive, he's a DK2 and the Vive and talk in depth about them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9uXUjpSsak

Whoa!!!!

Wondering what's better..

Vive or Oculus Rift...

drunkmonkey

edward2222 wrote: »

Whoa!!!!

Wondering what's better..

Vive or Oculus Rift...

Right now it's the Vive by a country mile.

Dyr

but all the sim games seem be developing their support for the rift so if you're a simmer...

drunkmonkey

Bambi wrote: »

but all the sim games seem be developing their support for the rift so if you're a simmer...

I'd say it won't be long before its both, Vive will be on the shelves in June and rift God only knows when. Touch and roomscale more finger in the air guessing. The vid I linked to the reviewer seems to think the sims he's tried the Vive and dk2 in the Vive is better.

salamanca22

Bambi wrote: »

but all the sim games seem be developing their support for the rift so if you're a simmer...

Already been broken. https://github.com/LibreVR/Revive

Albeit it's a POC right now it will be developed into a full fledged solution sooner than later.

Calibos

Rift by a country mile. The practicalities of Roomscale render any roomscale advantages Vive has over Rift moot. The Rift is the better HMD.

So the choice is slightly inferior optical characteristics, poor ergonomics and comfort for every experience seated or roomscale and for the life of this generation...but you get to play some roomscale and tracked controller tech demo's sooner.

or

Better HMD that you feel the benefits of in every experience and for the life of this generation...but you have to wait another few months till Touch arrives. But when it does Touch is arguably a better controller than the Vive Wands and there will actually be some full games/experiences to use it with.

MarkAnthony

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Right now it's the Vive by a country mile.

Calibos wrote: »

Rift by a country mile. The practicalities of Roomscale render any roomscale advantages Vive has over Rift moot. The Rift is the better HMD.

So the choice is slightly inferior optical characteristics, poor ergonomics and comfort for every experience seated or roomscale and for the life of this generation...but you get to play some roomscale and tracked controller tech demo's sooner.

or

Better HMD that you feel the benefits of in every experience and for the life of this generation...but you have to wait another few months till Touch arrives. But when it does Touch is arguably a better controller than the Vive Wands and there will actually be some full games/experiences to use it with.

Neither :pac:

The Rift is the better 'Simmer's' headset by virtue of it being cheaper and not bundled with controllers you don't want.

The Vive is the better 'VR Concepts' headset as it has room tracking, cameras etc.

Asking here which one is better with all the blatant fanboism going on is not going to help you much I'm afraid. Read the reviews and decide for yourself. I went Rift because it's cheaper, I don't want the controllers and I'll be using it mainly for sim games and I have some experience with the DKs. I might have gone for the Vive had I known I'd have got the thing at a time somehow related to roughly when it was promised unlike the very poor form shown by Oculus.

Neither set is perfect. It's gen 1 early adopter stuff. Within a year or so we'll all be going on about how the Rift and Vive are pants compared to the shiney new insert company here stuff.

Taylor365

I'll be waiting a good while before i invest in any of this tech.

I've played many games and demos on my DK2 and half of which looked and felt like complete crap, even though you had youtubers ooooing and awwwwing with their click-bait videos.

The resolution and control scheme just isn't there for me yet.

lmimmfn

Taylor365 wrote: »

I'll be waiting a good while before i invest in any of this tech.

I've played many games and demos on my DK2 and half of which looked and felt like complete crap, even though you had youtubers ooooing and awwwwing with their click-bait videos.

The resolution and control scheme just isn't there for me yet.

There is a big difference in the slight resolution upgrade, 2 screens instead of one( not losing pixels in the centre of the DK2 1 screen ) and improved optics( minus the god rays issue ) from DK2 though, racers like Project Cars are no longer impossible because tight corners are a line 1 pixel high until really close. DCS is a lot more playable also and you can mostly( im not that familiar with the game to know what all the dials do ) read the dials without having to lean forward.

So for me compared to DK2, the resolution is adequate( not great but usable ) whereas in DK2 it wasnt for racers and flight sims.

drunkmonkey

Same guy that done the car video above is impressed with the leap in resolution from the DK2, if I can see a leap in war thunder resolution now I'll be very happy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMrVazZGTW8

moc moc a moc

MarkAnthony wrote: »

The Rift is the better 'Simmer's' headset by virtue of it being cheaper and not bundled with controllers you don't want.

Eh... I don't particularly want an extra Xbone controller. At least the Vive controllers are specifically useful for VR.

salamanca22

I own a DK1, DK2 and a rift CV1 and have access to a Vive pre and Vive cv1 (Use the Vive cv1 probably 3 hours a day) and I can honestly say the vive is the better HMD. My bias aside (Am an OSS developer so the oculous store being so closed really annoyed me) the vive is the better experience both sit down and stand up. Graphic fidelity is truer on the vive (Measured with all sorts of devices here in the studio) fits better on my head (Probably not true for everyone) and just feels better.

Room tracking is awesome. But I cannot compare as the rift peripherals are not out yet.

MarkAnthony

moc moc a moc wrote: »

Eh... I don't particularly want an extra Xbone controller. At least the Vive controllers are specifically useful for VR.

I don't want the box, the wee remotey thing or the instruction booklet but I suspect added together they cost about the same as the Xbox one controller (which I do actually want). The Vive and touch controllers are useless for simming VR. For racing it will be a steering wheel and for flight sims it will be a range of kit that will eclipse the rift in terms of cost for some people's setup.

Mine, I make do with a F-16 set up flying an A-10C but we all have our crosses to bear!

MarkAnthony

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Same guy that done the car video above is impressed with the leap in resolution from the DK2, if I can see a leap in war thunder resolution now I'll be very happy.

<SNIP>

He's comparing the DK2 and the Vive CV. The one useful thing is he's pointed out neither headset is there yet for hardcore flight simulation.

Zillah

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Mine, I make do with a F-16 set up flying an A-10C but we all have our crosses to bear!

You poor soul.

Dyr

MarkAnthony wrote: »

I don't want the box, the wee remotey thing or the instruction booklet but I suspect added together they cost about the same as the Xbox one controller (which I do actually want). The Vive and touch controllers are useless for simming VR. For racing it will be a steering wheel and for flight sims it will be a range of kit that will eclipse the rift in terms of cost for some people's setup.

Mine, I make do with a F-16 set up flying an A-10C but we all have our crosses to bear!

I have a funny feeling that clickable cockpits plus the vive controllers is going to make a lot of the current hotas set ups redundant

MarkAnthony

Bambi wrote: »

I have a funny feeling that clickable cockpits plus the vive controllers is going to make a lot of the current hotas set ups redundant

Not unless they magically manage to create some kind of anti gravity effect for me to rest my hands on they're not. The vive controller are great for interacting with the world with handless stumps. They're not going to allow for switching a toggle to one of five modes anytime soon. The little nipple mouse on my HOTAS on the other hand...

Even using them as a flight yoke in a commercial jet would be exhausting after a while.