Oculus Rift

MarkAnthony

Bambi wrote: »

Here's thing I'm going to comment on the rift Vs Vive for comfort because I haven't worn a CV1

I can't comment on the quality of the respective ear phones either for the same reason

I can comment on the difference between roomscale (Vive) and seated VR (Rift) experiences because I use both so when someone who hasn't passes a remark that roomscale isn't there yet I can safely say it's simply not true. It's there and room scale where VR should be. Without it all you have is a step up from track IR. If that's all you wanted (and initially it's all I wanted from VR) then seated might be fine but it's not the full picture at all.

Same with those Vive controllers, they are a hugely impressive solution, 1 to 1 mapping in real time and so natural that you barely notice them. If you haven't used them

Again I completely disagree. There does seem to be a huge amount of evangelizing here chaps rather than critical analysis of where the market is going.

Care to comment on when the first AAA title will be exclusive to the Vive due to it's design? I think you're looking at 2018 at the very earliest at which point the technology will have moved on which is my point about the vive currently being (a very good) dev kit.

On a related note I see a prototype 4K dongle at 60Hz is already in the wild - very exciting for proper roomscale VR/Augmented reality - another thing the Vive can do (potentially) due to it's camera. That's something to get excited about - a FPS set in your house!

FAILSAFE 00

MarkAnthony wrote: »

We're simply not going to reach a consensus. If we were then we'd have the same units..

Indeed.

I am not saying that you personally have to use motion controls. Sims are your thing so the Rift is perfect for the job without Touch. Its your sweeping statements about motion controls from your armchair that I am addressing :P

MarkAnthony wrote: »

We'll see where the market goes in the next few years. I've not said that I don't see the point of motion controls, but that in their current implementation they have a long way to go. Are they fun, yes I'm sure they are - are they worth €250 - I'm not convinced.

Of which you have 0 experience.
It would be one thing if you at least tried it and then gave a more enlightened opinion.

MarkAnthony wrote: »

I should get to play with a Vive over the next couple of weeks but unless there's some absolutely amazing game that's been hiding somewhere I've never been a fan of casual gaming so I can't see it changing my opinion.

It will be great for you to try and then let us know if you still hold the opinion that motion controls in VR are not important now and going forward or if you have changed your mind.

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Again I completely disagree. There does seem to be a huge amount of evangelizing here chaps rather than critical analysis of where the market is going.

How can you give critical analysis without trying something

imitation

Almost every person whos tired on my dk2 has stuck out there hands and waved them about, to me its the biggest indication that motion controllers are the natural next step.

MarkAnthony

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

How can you give critical analysis without trying something

Somethings need direct experience, some things need related experience, somethings can be gleaned from research. This is absolutely basic. Lets assume you're a hetrosexual male - have you tried Gay sex? How do you know you don;t like it if you haven't? Your previous experiences tell you.

I hate getting into these arguments about the argument but this 'you haven't tried it so you don't know' is spurious at best.

MarkAnthony

imitation wrote: »

Almost every person whos tired on my dk2 has stuck out there hands and waved them about, to me its the biggest indication that motion controllers are the natural next step.

The next natural step would be full hand tracking putting your actual hands into the game. I really don't know why we went down this tangential route. The technology for hand and indeed full body tracking is already out there. Feedback doesn't need to be on controllers.

FAILSAFE 00

MarkAnthony wrote: »

The next natural step would be full hand tracking putting your actual hands into the game. I really don't know why we went down this tangential route. The technology for hand and indeed full body tracking is already out there. Feedback doesn't need to be on controllers.

Indeed, but not instead of a controller.

I see controllers and gloves (hand tracking) both being an important combo in an immersive VR experience.

You are holding a motion controller in your hand, inside VR this controller might be a lightsaber, a gun, a sword, bow & arrow, etc, etc.

VR gloves are already in the works for VR headsets with companies already distributing dev kits to VR developers.

MarkAnthony

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Indeed, but not instead of a controller.

I see controllers and gloves (hand tracking) both being an important combo in an immersive VR experience.

You are holding a motion controller in your hand, inside VR this controller might be a lightsaber, a gun, a sword, bow & arrow, etc, etc.

VR gloves are already in the works for VR headsets with companies already distributing dev kits to VR developers.

Again they're not really needed (gloves). It can be done with something like a leap motion, ideally integrated into the headset.

Then you can sell loads of plastic accessories a la Wii or just pick up a toy gun. broom stick, whatever.

Dyr

MarkAnthony wrote: »

I should get to play with a Vive over the next couple of weeks but unless there's some absolutely amazing game that's been hiding somewhere I've never been a fan of casual gaming so I can't see it changing my opinion.

Casual Gaming? That's flat gamer talk, when you've nearly sparked yourself by running face first into a wall while trying to evade a security drone or nearly shat yourself when a zombie no. twenty suddenly goes from a shamble to a sprint at you then you can't call it casual

TBH i don't think you'll make any climbdown but you'll want to inside

FAILSAFE 00

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Again they're not really needed (gloves). It can be done with something like a leap motion, ideally integrated into the headset.

Then you can sell loads of plastic accessories a la Wii or just pick up a toy gun. broom stick, whatever.

Ehhhh, now that would definitely be a step backwards.

When you try a VR experience where you have a gun or bow or something in your hand you'll understand.

MarkAnthony

Bambi wrote: »

Casual Gaming? That's flat gamer talk, when you've nearly sparked yourself by running face first into a wall while trying to evade a security drone or nearly shat yourself when a zombie no. twenty suddenly goes from a shamble to a sprint at you then you can't call it casual

TBH i don't think you'll make any climbdown but you'll want to inside

:rolleyes: It's not about climb downs or who's got the better toy. As I've already said - neither of these companies is going to 'win' this.

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Ehhhh, now that would definitely be a step backwards.

When you try a VR experience where you have a gun or bow or something in your hand you'll understand.

It doesn't really matter what you're holding tbh.

FAILSAFE 00

MarkAnthony wrote: »

It doesn't really matter what you're holding tbh.

Oh, it really does. Imagine a sword fight in VR.

In a fight between 2 people both swords strike each other. Now if I am holding a plastic sword you won't even feel that impact and its easing as the swords move apart.

Trust me. You'll get it when you try VR motion controls.

MarkAnthony

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Oh, it really does. Imagine a sword fight in VR.

In a fight between 2 people both swords strike each other. Now if I am holding a plastic sword you won't even feel that impact and its easing as the swords move apart.

Trust me. You'll get it when you try VR motion controls.

As I've already said, and trust me you'll get it when you read the posts, feedback is critical. It doesn't have to be on a controller however.

FAILSAFE 00

MarkAnthony wrote: »

As I've already said, and trust me you'll get it when you read the posts, feedback is critical. It doesn't have to be on a controller however.

To be honest, I really don't get it. You seem to be all over the place

You go from recommending Leap motion which has 0 feedback to saying that feedback is critical. Leap motion doesn't have any feedback. I think leap motion in incredible btw.

For hand feedback in motion VR at the very least a glove will be needed to experience some haptic feedback.

MarkAnthony

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

To be honest, I really don't get it. You seem to be all over the place

You go from recommending Leap motion which has 0 feedback to saying that feedback is critical. Leap motion doesn't have any feedback. I think leap motion in incredible btw.

For hand feedback in motion VR at the very least a glove will be needed to experience some haptic feedback.

It's pretty clear you've had issue understanding tbh - that's fine I think we've all agreed none of us are approaching this with a totally open mind.

There are a number of options available but they need to do the following:

- Track the hand completely
-Provide feedback

Both don't have to be done by the same device. And to continue to have a complex view, sorry be all over the place, feedback won't be needed in all applications - I'm thinking beyond gaming here.

Controller - gen1 technology - not interested myself.
Glove - meh not sure myself possibly - certainly wouldn't need a load of accessories but on the accessories I can really see marketing getting behind specific controllers for specific games.

Hopefully they'll be a third option which is the perfect solution, if I had it I doubt I'd be here procrastinating over exams.

FAILSAFE 00

MarkAnthony wrote: »

It's pretty clear you've had issue understanding tbh - that's fine I think we've all agreed none of us are approaching this with a totally open mind.

Hmmm, maybe you can enlighten us?

MarkAnthony

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Hmmm, maybe you can enlighten us?

Read the foregoing.

Dyr

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Care to comment on when the first AAA title will be exclusive to the Vive due to it's design? I think you're looking at 2018 at the very earliest at which point the technology will have moved on which is my point about the vive currently being (a very good) dev kit.

More of that flatgamer talk, AAA really? You think ubisoft et al are going to be bold enough to commit an AAA budget to something this new that won't be played on consoles or even most PCs, when they can just pump out Gears Of Duty 17?

Was Was Wolfenstein or Doom AAA? Was Minecraft? Other than Valve, you're going to see smaller companies make the breakthroughs and define the pradigms of this thing and they ain't gonna do that with an xbox controller


Hand tracking is already here as is feedback, so presumably you're on about digit tracking and feedback, something that won't have much application in games but will in AutoCad and suchlike.

MarkAnthony

Bambi wrote: »

More of that flatgamer talk, AAA really? You think ubisoft et al are going to be bold enough to commit an AAA budget to something this new that won't be played on consoles or even most PCs, when they can just pump out Gears Of Duty 17?

Was Was Wolfenstein or Doom AAA? Was Minecraft? Other than Valve, you're going to see smaller companies make the breakthroughs and define the pradigms of this thing and they ain't gonna do that with an xbox controller


Hand tracking is already here as is feedback, so presumably you're on about digit tracking and feedback, something that won't have much application in games but will in AutoCad and suchlike.

This is getting a bit tiresome tbh. Flatgamer talk - trust me etc. There are already AAA VR titles none of them feature motion controllers. The biggest budget game ever is designed to incorporate VR as a sitting experience.

Moving to will Ubisoft commit a budget - no they'll do VR as a bolt on so it'll use traditional controller schemes and just use the HMD. I'm glad we finally agree on this it's what I've been trying to get across.

As for gaming not using full tracking - that's the way it'll eventually go. Full body tracking in game - possibly standing - probably not. Full hand tracking will eventually be built into the headset.

Falthyron

The exclusives divide continues.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/oculus-shuts-down-app-that-let-vive-users-play-rif/1100-6440052/

MarkAnthony

Falthyron wrote: »

The exclusives divide continues.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/oculus-shuts-down-app-that-let-vive-users-play-rif/1100-6440052/

I think we were discussing it further up but the mess that has ensued has maybe lost that - apologies.

Yes dick move by Oculus it has to be said. However I can see why they're doing it. They simply can't compete with a goliath like Steam and software is where the money is, neither company are making money on the hardware.

That said it does seem odd that if you could let Vive users access 'by the back door' that they wouldn't continue with the revenue stream. I'm not sure cutting off this access helps them with the above.

That said are Oculus going to have many exclusives? Perhaps they've had all the money they were going to get out of Vive users as much better game etc. became available through Steam VR, usable on both platforms or limited by technology to Vive. Extremely cynical view but frankly the one I'm going with.

If I can buy it through Steam or Oculus Store I buy it through steam I have to say. I'm not liking this closed shop bollocks as much as I can see why they might be doing it.

MarkAnthony

Even as a Brit this guy's accent pisses me off but this combined with VR, imagine being able to go anywhere in the World and visit anything from the comfort of your chair.

drunkmonkey

MarkAnthony wrote: »

imagine being able to go anywhere in the World and visit anything from the comfort of your chair.

Imagine being able to walk around and touch it....:pac::pac:

*cough, you can with a Vive:p

MarkAnthony

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Imagine being able to walk around and touch it....:pac::pac:

*cough, you can with a Vive:p

Seriously let's not start this again. Although being able to pick up objects that you couldn't do in RL would be pretty sweet. Grabbing David's willy etc.

BTW requested a VR Forum if anyone thinks we should have somewhere to call our own.

drunkmonkey

They should merge this and the vive one and just re-name it, software is more or less the same on both.

MarkAnthony

drunkmonkey wrote: »

They should merge this and the vive one and just re-name it, software is more or less the same on both.

Not sure that's a good idea, I think with the level of purchase justification at the moment best to keep us separated unless we want interaction. Think of it as benign apartheid. :pac:

jumbobreakfast

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Even as a Brit this guy's accent pisses me off but this combined with VR, imagine being able to go anywhere in the World and visit anything from the comfort of your chair.

Not these guys again, they've been around for about a decade now and have always been moving the goalposts and being less than honest about the limitations of their point cloud system or whatever it's called. Their system won't really benefit interative experiences or gaming and requires large amounts of storage space. I'm not keen to support them since they have been so dishonest in the past, it's not yer man's accent that's the problem, it's probably your gut feeling.

Zillah

Let's see them run it at 90fps.

FAILSAFE 00

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Imagine being able to walk around and touch it....:pac::pac:

*cough, you can with a Vive:p

LMAO,

Unfortunately Its not quite there yet according to the VR experts :pac:

Falthyron wrote: »

The exclusives divide continues.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/oculus-shuts-down-app-that-let-vive-users-play-rif/1100-6440052/

Revive has already been patched to work around it but as you can imagine Rift will close off that exploit very quickly. Its funny though that they'll have to patch it again and get abuse for doing it

I haven't actually used it myself.

Zillah

The fact that they are trying to so hard to block ReVive makes me hesitant to risk buying anything on their storefront.

So, well done Oculus, your brilliant strategy is working, you've convinced me to not give you my money. Your latest report to Zuckerberg can claim complete success at deliberately sabotaging your own sales?

Duggy747

Yea, the current Oculus shenanigans paints more of a picture of which platform would be the better one to go for. Oculus are trying to stop themselves being consumed by the Vive monster.

Pretty much most VR videos I'm seeing now feature the Vive, I don't see anywhere near as much with the Oculus. Even games modded / retrofitted are based on the Vive.

I have the DK1 and really enjoyed it, I'd love to try out the latest iterations but at least by the time I get around to it there'll be a wealth of games / demos to dive into.