Parking, parent child and disabled parking spaces misuse

ItsNoAlias

interesting discussion. Disabled parking should be used for disabled people or in extreme cases of injury, such as the one mentioned above with the crutches. P&C parking is down to the car-park owners disgression and I will abide by the rule but I dont see why parents should automatically get these spaces.

I see the practicality of them of course and from a parents point of view (I am not one) I am sure they seem essential or at least a huge advantage but just because you decided to have kids does not mean you should get preferential treatment. If a private car park wants to supply them then fine, i say abide by the owners wishes, you can think its a stupi rule but you should still abide by it.

For the parents on the thread, are you annoyed when P&C is not provided or does it even occur to you? That question is not meant to sound as impertious as it does but I really do wish to know. Bare in mind, I do not have children and dont plan too so the question is literally one of curiosity. Do you remember the carparks that dont provide these spaces?

Felexicon

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

A rule is something an owner sets in place. Like dont put your feet on the furniture in someones house. Now I'm assumeing if your in someones house and they say, dont put your feet on the coffee table, you dont say "**** you, I'll do what I want" and put your feet up? What makes a private carpark any different?

Again, not a rule, it is merely a request by the houseowner. What they choose to do if I ignore this request is up to them.
Also your comparison really isn't relevant to this discussion as it's no where near the same circumstance

Felexicon

Anan1 wrote: »

?? Maybe look in the car park?.

I've never been in a carpark with a list of rules. Could you tell me of one or two and I'll be sure to visit them.

Guy:Incognito

Felexicon wrote: »

Again, not a rule, it is merely a request by the houseowner. What they choose to do if I ignore this request is up to them.
Also your comparison really isn't relevant to this discussion as it's no where near the same circumstance

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rule
a: a prescribed guide for conduct or action

The first definition covers it , theres another couple ont here though.


So because they cant do anythign much too you by law, you feel you can do as you please?

It's a very valid comparision btw. It's two rules on private property.


Why do you feel you should'nt obey the rules that the landowner is asking you to on their property and why do you think people should obey yours on your property? It's a fairly simple question.

Felexicon wrote: »

I've never been in a carpark with a list of rules. Could you tell me of one or two and I'll be sure to visit them.

https://maps.google.ie/maps?hl=en&ll=53.286105,-6.369596&spn=0.000002,0.001742&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=53.286105,-6.369596&panoid=Erhe2ahF7uQ1WI_4h7th1Q&cbp=12,270.06,,1,5.28

Felexicon

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rule
a: a prescribed guide for conduct or action

The first definition covers it , theres another couple ont here though.


So because they cant do anythign much too you by law, you feel you can do as you please?

It's a very valid comparision btw. It's two rules on private property.

Correct.

I just don't see why I should be put out because someone else has a child.
As I've said previously if the spaces were at the back of the car parks I'd have no issue. But if I gain the advantage of having a shorter distance to walk then I'll take a P&C space every time.
I don't see any shame in this. It's human nature

Guy:Incognito

Felexicon wrote: »

I don't see any shame in this. It's human nature

No, its ignorance and selfishness that certain people are inflicted with.

Which this proves

Felexicon wrote: »

Correct.

"**** everyone else as long as I'm ok"


The issue is nothing to do with what the spaces are for and all to do with having the common courtesy to obey someone elses rules on their property.

Why not go one step further and just abandon your car right outside the door of the shop/business etc? It's private property and by law they cant do anything about it. That'll get you even closer and help avoid any unnecessary excercise at all.

Felexicon

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

No, its ignorance and selfishness that certain people are inflicted with.

Which this proves


"**** everyone else as long as I'm ok"


The issue is nothing to do with what the spaces are for and all to do with having the common courtesy to obey someone elses rules on their property.

Why not go one step further and just abandon your car right outside the door of the shop/business etc? It's private property and by law they cant do anything about it. That'll get you even closer and help avoid any unnecessary excercise at all.

I would but someone might scratch my car with a trolley if it's too close to the door.
I actually do alot of excercise, it's why I don't feel the need to park at the back of car parks to get a walk in.


You seem to be taking a whiter than white approach to obeying rules.
Are you trying to say that you never break any rules

Guy:Incognito

Felexicon wrote: »

I would but someone might scratch my car with a trolley if it's too close to the door.
I actually do alot of excercise, it's why I don't feel the need to park at the back of car parks to get a walk in.


You seem to be taking a whiter than white approach to obeying rules.
Are you trying to say that you never break any rules

You seem to avoid the issue of why someone should do as you tell them in your house but you can do as you please.

what would you do if someone was in your house and flat out refused to do as you asked? Just shrug and say "oh well, according to the law I cant do anythign so I'll just have to let them do as they please"?

Courtesy is not taking a whiter than white approach.

Welease

ItsNoAlias wrote: »

interesting discussion. Disabled parking should be used for disabled people or in extreme cases of injury, such as the one mentioned above with the crutches. P&C parking is down to the car-park owners disgression and I will abide by the rule but I dont see why parents should automatically get these spaces.

For me it's a matter of courtesy.. Some parents do need them, and some don't.. It's exactly the same reason why I don't park horizontally across 3 parking spots, or park up against the drivers door next to me so they have to climb in the passenger side.. It's not illegal, but I try not willfully makes the lives of others difficult just because it doesnt effect me.. Many don't have the same courtesy.
For bigger car parks when it's me and one kid, I dont use them.. I can control my child if an issue occurs.. I leave them for other parents who may need them, and I would hope other people would leave them for other folks (like my wife) who may need them more when they have multiple childen with them..

ItsNoAlias wrote: »

I see the practicality of them of course and from a parents point of view (I am not one) I am sure they seem essential or at least a huge advantage but just because you decided to have kids does not mean you should get preferential treatment. If a private car park wants to supply them then fine, i say abide by the owners wishes, you can think its a stupi rule but you should still abide by it. .

Agreed. And as per my photo a few pages back.. parents will use them happily even when they are not in the prime spots.. they use them because it's safer for the children. It's not their choice where shops choose to locate those spots.
Personally I also prefer not to risk chipping the paint of the car parked next to me, but I need to have the door wide open (and often there is little space) and I risk having a child knock the door open fully on the way out.

ItsNoAlias wrote: »

For the parents on the thread, are you annoyed when P&C is not provided or does it even occur to you? That question is not meant to sound as impertious as it does but I really do wish to know. Bare in mind, I do not have children and dont plan too so the question is literally one of curiosity. Do you remember the carparks that dont provide these spaces?

Yes and No.. like most things it depends.. If I have a shop with 20 checkouts open so I dont have to queue with exactly the same products/prices as a shop with one checkout and a massive queue.. I will always use the first shop. If I only have one shop and it was the second, I would use it.. Life is a bit more painful.. but hey..
It's a great service for folks who do need them, or feels safer with them.. But if they don't exist then most will just get on with life and deal with it..
Plenty of car parks dont have them..

The issue for me (and I assume others) is that many folks who disagree on here have no valid reason from using them apart from they don't see the value to them directly therefore they ignore the rules.. same as the folks who can't park straight and take up multiple spots in full car parks, those who block in other cars as they are just popping into the shop for a minute but are away for 20 mins, those who block lanes on the motorway doing the legal limit (can be illegal, but unlikely to get done), those who block drivers door etc... Its not illegal.. but it doesnt make them any lesser of an ass for doing so..
Is it that hard to do the decent thing for other?.. sadly in many cases for some it appears to be so..

Anan1

Felexicon wrote: »

Correct.

I just don't see why I should be put out because someone else has a child.

You don't have to see, you just have to respect the owner's wishes.

Felexicon wrote: »

As I've said previously if the spaces were at the back of the car parks I'd have no issue. But if I gain the advantage of having a shorter distance to walk then I'll take a P&C space every time.
I don't see any shame in this. It's human nature

It's not human nature, plenty of people respect the rights of others. It's your nature.

Kenny Logins

Felexicon wrote: »

I've never been in a carpark with a list of rules.

I'm sure you have. ...maybe you just ignored them?

Felexicon

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

You seem to avoid the issue of why someone should do as you tell them in your house but you can do as you please.

what would you do if someone was in your house and flat out refused to do as you asked? Just shrug and say "oh well, according to the law I cant do anythign so I'll just have to let them do as they please"?

Courtesy is not taking a whiter than white approach.

I'd throw them out of my house.

If the car park owner throws me out, I may change my view, but I know they won't because they want my money

Anan1

Felexicon wrote: »

If the car park owner throws me out, I may change my view, but I know they won't because they want my money

That's a lame excuse. The car park owner has made it clear that they don't want you to park there irrespective of how much money you spend.

Mental Mickey

Felexicon wrote: »

I would but someone might scratch my car with a trolley if it's too close to the door.
I actually do alot of excercise, it's why I don't feel the need to park at the back of car parks to get a walk in.
You seem to be taking a whiter than white approach to obeying rules.
Are you trying to say that you never break any rules

That makes no sense whatsoever. If you do a lot of exercise, then you should be able to walk from the back of the carpark without a problem....? I, on the other hand, need access to the accessible car-parking spaces, because, horror of horrors, I actually have a disability, use a wheelchair, and require the extra wide spaces to assemble my chair each time I take it out of my car.

It sounds like you're just lazy.

Felexicon

Anan1 wrote: »

That's a lame excuse. The car park owner has made it clear that they don't want you to park there irrespective of how much money you spend.

They haven't made it clear what they want at all. I am yet to see any clear rules on show for correct use of P&C spaces.


If we insist on P&C spaces we need to introduce speciality spaces for all sectors of society.
I know this was trialed in America for a while until some upity bitch called Rosa Parks ruined it

Mental Mickey

Felexicon wrote: »

They haven't made it clear what they want at all. I am yet to see any clear rules on show for correct use of P&C spaces.


If we insist on P&C spaces we need to introduce speciality spaces for all sectors of society.
I know this was trialed in America for a while until some upity bitch called Rosa Parks ruined it

TROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLL:mad:

Guy:Incognito

Felexicon wrote: »

They haven't made it clear what they want at all. I am yet to see any clear rules on show for correct use of P&C spaces.

You must have great issues knowing what to do when faced with this so.

Felexicon

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

You must have great issues knowing what to do when faced with this so.

Sorry man, can't see image as I'm in work.

Sorry "work"

Mental Mickey

Felexicon wrote: »

Sorry man, can't see image as I'm in work.

Sorry "work"

:rolleyes:

Felexicon

Mental Mickey wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Not really sure what this means tbh

Mental Mickey

Felexicon wrote: »

Not really sure what this means tbh

I won't bother explaining then.

Felexicon

Mental Mickey wrote: »

I won't bother explaining then.

:rolleyes:

Mental Mickey

I see you've been banned from threads before for trolling, Mr Flex??



Nice try.

Felexicon

Mental Mickey wrote: »

I see you've been banned from threads before for trolling, Mr Flex??



Nice try.

Who is this Flex you speak of.

Also I was banned from a similar thread before but it was not for "trolling" as you call it

Mental Mickey

Felexicon wrote: »

Who is this Flex you speak of.

Also I was banned from a similar thread before but it was not for "trolling" as you call it

I did that deliberately to see if you were still paying attention.

TestTransmission

Grow up the both of ye

Mental Mickey

TestTransmission wrote: »

Grow up the both of ye

Sorry, but I think he is taking the p*** out of a very serious issue.

Felexicon

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Sorry, but I think he is taking the p*** out of a very serious issue.

Now who's taking the píss

Mental Mickey

Felexicon wrote: »

Now who's taking the píss

The misuse of disabled parking bays is a serious issue. Maybe you should spend a day in a wheelchair and see how you get on??

cbrlover

The last time this came up I posted this. It is a fact and as far as I am concerned this shows it is not the extra space but just that the parents are lazy, so stop trying to defend yourselves. Be honest if the spots were on the far side of the car park would you use them, I think not.

Just to help give some incite into this debate.

My sister in law manages a supermarket in Liverpool. At the request of parents, they changed 5 parking spots from standard spots to 3 P&C spots. They put up signs saying people would be clamped if the used them without having children with them. They paid for in extra surveillance for security but here is the crunch, they were on the far side of the car park with a path, with railings leading to the shop door.

Guess what after 6 months they were put back to being 5 standard spots because people didn’t use them.

This goes a little way to answering the question about the reason people use them. Parents would rather struggle with tight spots and be close to the door rather than have space to load and unload but have to walk.

Guy:Incognito

cbrlover wrote: »

The last time this came up I posted this. It is a fact and as far as I am concerned this shows it is not the extra space but just that the parents are lazy, so stop trying to defend yourselves. Be honest if the spots were on the far side of the car park would you use them, I think not.

If no on ewas using them as P+C spots because they were far away then nobody was using them at all. Why bother paying for them to be changed back?

I highly doubt the car park was full and those 3 spaces were left empty

Welease

cbrlover wrote: »

The last time this came up I posted this. It is a fact and as far as I am concerned this shows it is not the extra space but just that the parents are lazy, so stop trying to defend yourselves. Be honest if the spots were on the far side of the car park would you use them, I think not.

If that were true then why do these spots at Edenderry Tesco's have cars parked in them? (with far closer spots available)..

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80622478&postcount=134

Mental Mickey

cbrlover wrote: »

The last time this came up I posted this. It is a fact and as far as I am concerned this shows it is not the extra space but just that the parents are lazy, so stop trying to defend yourselves. Be honest if the spots were on the far side of the car park would you use them, I think not.

+1

cram1971

2 years ago I would have been in the cant seen the point of P&C spaces but I never parked in one.

Now with 2 kids under 18 months I can completely see the point in them, try and get 2 car seats which fit into stroller frames out of a back seat in a regular car space, if you have not tried this well you cant really comment.

Anan1

cbrlover wrote: »

The last time this came up I posted this. It is a fact and as far as I am concerned this shows it is not the extra space but just that the parents are lazy, so stop trying to defend yourselves. Be honest if the spots were on the far side of the car park would you use them, I think not.

That may well be true, but it's irrelevant. Common courtesy dictates that when on someone else's property we comply with their wishes. If car park owners want to offer bigger spaces for people in blue jumpers then so be it.

Kenny Logins

cbrlover wrote: »

The last time this came up I posted this. It is a fact and as far as I am concerned this shows it is not the extra space but just that the parents are lazy, so stop trying to defend yourselves. Be honest if the spots were on the far side of the car park would you use them, I think not.

If the spaces are that far from the door nobody is going to use them.

Felexicon

Mental Mickey wrote: »

The misuse of disabled parking bays is a serious issue. Maybe you should spend a day in a wheelchair and see how you get on??

Yes it is. But I am only talking about P&C spaces. I've never mentioned wheelchair spaces and don't you dare try to tar me with that brush.

Felexicon

cram1971 wrote: »

2 years ago I would have been in the cant seen the point of P&C spaces but I never parked in one.

Now with 2 kids under 18 months I can completely see the point in them, try and get 2 car seats which fit into stroller frames out of a back seat in a regular car space, if you have not tried this well you cant really comment.

LOL. Was wondering how long it would take for the "you don't understand because you don't have kids" argument to be rolled out.

Mental Mickey

Felexicon wrote: »

Mental Mickey wrote: »

The misuse of disabled parking bays is a serious issue. Maybe you should spend a day in a wheelchair and see how you get on??

Yes it is. But I am only talking about P&C spaces. I've never mentioned wheelchair spaces and don't you dare try to tar me with that brush.

No need to be threatening.

Welease

Felexicon wrote: »

LOL. Was wondering how long it would take for the "you don't understand because you don't have kids" argument to be rolled out.

In fairness, it stayed out longer than the usual counter arguement in here.. "It's not illegal, so therefore it's ok"

Merch

cbrlover wrote: »

The last time this came up I posted this. It is a fact and as far as I am concerned this shows it is not the extra space but just that the parents are lazy, so stop trying to defend yourselves. Be honest if the spots were on the far side of the car park would you use them, I think not.

So there must have been something documented about this car park, some link or a google map showing use or lack of, if its the case then show us, otherwise

bonzos

Members of the travelling community seem to believe that disabled spaced are solely for their use

Mental Mickey

bonzos wrote: »

Members of the travelling community seem to believe that disabled spaced are solely for their use

There are ignorant people in all walks of life.

Iwannahurl

Let's not pretend that members of the Travelling community have a patent on such abuses.

Check out the Obnoxious Parking thread and you will see some examples of, er, non-Travellers who, instead of upholding the law and giving good example, are quite content to steal Blue Badge spaces.

dr.fuzzenstein

From observation in Ireland I have seen the same thing over and over again.
P&C spaces, yellow boxes, loading bays, going into the left turn lane to go straight on, general ignorance about traffic lights, bus lanes, disabled spaces and so on.
I don't care whether they're governed by law or not, I was brought up to respect them, but a lot of people seem to treat them as optional.
Sure when someone falls, I can either help them up, or point and laugh. I don't have to hold the door for others, I can let it slam into their face.
Instead of please and thank you, I can say "Go fcuk yourself"
I have never seen reason to park in a P&C space for as long as they existed, now if someone feels discriminated against because they are single, childless and able-bodied, my heart bleeds for you. I have always found a proper for myself, it's not rocket science.
Maybe their mammy never taught them any manners, so I'm willing to help:
As a civilized society we have many rules to guide us and help us. We may not agree with all of them, but we have to abide by them. If we feel strongly that some rules are wrong, we should get organised and start a campaign to get them changed, so we can achieve positive results.
And doing something wrong just because we feel we can get away with it, doesn't make it any better.
Now isn't that much nicer than doing something because "fcuk you, that's why"

Chriscl1

^^^^^^^
Very well said. Thank you.

Iwannahurl

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

From observation in Ireland I have seen the same thing over and over again.

P&C spaces, yellow boxes, loading bays, going into the left turn lane to go straight on, general ignorance about traffic lights, bus lanes, disabled spaces and so on.***

I don't care whether they're governed by law or not, I was brought up to respect them, but a lot of people seem to treat them as optional.

Sure when someone falls, I can either help them up, or point and laugh. I don't have to hold the door for others, I can let it slam into their face.
Instead of please and thank you, I can say "Go fcuk yourself"

I have never seen reason to park in a P&C space for as long as they existed, now if someone feels discriminated against because they are single, childless and able-bodied, my heart bleeds for you. I have always found a proper for myself, it's not rocket science.

Maybe their mammy never taught them any manners, so I'm willing to help:
As a civilized society we have many rules to guide us and help us. We may not agree with all of them, but we have to abide by them. If we feel strongly that some rules are wrong, we should get organised and start a campaign to get them changed, so we can achieve positive results.

And doing something wrong just because we feel we can get away with it, doesn't make it any better.

Now isn't that much nicer than doing something because "fcuk you, that's why"

***And speeding! :D

Jesting aside, you're right about the lack of manners and civic responsibility, though personally I have encountered many motoring mammies who would go through you for a short-cut rather than drive and park with care and consideration for others (including me as a parent and pedestrian).

Some posters in the forum have argued before that P&C spaces are "makey-uppy" and so there is absolutely no reason to respect them. My response is that, for example, Boards rules are also makey-uppy, but the same posters would think twice about blatantly violating those rules because Boards has a policy about such things and a means of sanctioning offenders. Of course many Boards members, myself included, violate those makey-uppy Boards rules from time to time, but we know we run the risk of a ban.

The key issue about abuse of P&C spaces is not the makey-uppyness, but the abusers' confidence that they will get away with it. Introduce a consistent and effective enforcement regime and you will change people's attitudes. Change enough people's attitudes and you will change the culture.

.

Felexicon

Vive la revolution!!!!!!

Changing cultures one P&C space at a time

Iwannahurl

Felexicon wrote: »

Vive la revolution!!!!!!

It's a lot quicker with a guillotine of course...;)

dr.fuzzenstein

Felexicon wrote: »

Vive la revolution!!!!!!

Changing cultures one P&C space at a time

Well, when immediate and very steep fines and clamping are introduced for even the smallest parking violation, bus lane cameras, average speed cameras or even better, black boxes in cars that will monitor and report your speed at 3am in the middle of nowhere, we can thank that idiotic attitude of "I don't agree with it, therefore I will deliberately go against it".
There seems to be a certain sub-species in this country that thrives on trolling either online or in real life. They are not confined to any ethnic group, but seem to be mostly young males up to 25 years old. They usually grow up or Darwin themselves after that.
And that cramps the style of the grown ups, who know how the break the rules with style and without inconveniencing others and, most importantly, without boasting and calling attention to themselves.
Because screaming "Look at me, I'm so cool I don't give a sh*t!" will only get the attention of the adults in charge who then might decide "Right, let's put a stop to that".
Enjoy it while it lasts. I don't really care personally, it just annoys me a tiny bit, because I'm used to the way things are done in civilised countries, where rules are properly obeyed and enforced and runts ruining it for everyone are quickly dealt with.