Would you kiss someone with HIV/hepatitis?

efb

mishkalucy wrote: »

You said it within the context of the discussion about pozzing.

do only gay men pozz?

Smidge

efb wrote: »

do only gay men pozz?

I have no idea but can only imagine that straight people do too considering some of the cases in the States that have been brought to court(and elsewhere presumably)where people have infected others knowingly while having HIV/Aids.
Whether this could be considered pozzing is up for interpretation.

pontia

i actually felt ill reading that,petrol should be pored on those animals,sub human

1ZRed

mishkalucy wrote: »

Not from what I have just seen and that was just a very basic google search.
I can only imagine if I dug a bit deeper.
I really thought DQ was making it up, hence the search.

No, it is extremely uncommon and it does not occur frequently. Anything specific can be found easly on google with a search and this is an issue many non-heterosexual people discuss because it's just as shocking to us as it is to you so it's quite popular in the search engine.

Bug chasers are not mentally healthy people at all and are consumed with a fear that they will eventually contract the disease so they go out and seek it to end their anxiety. They don't take it lightly but the pressure and fear really fucks them up and they snap.

Gift givers are another breed and get off hard spreading the disease. Mostly a mixture of taking their frustration out because of their medical situation and using and "owning" somebody to the point where they are left diseased. Basically, they love the idea of using somebody to the biggest possible extreme and then leave their permanent mark on them.

I've had the misfortune of coming across a gift giver and they are not at all good people. Very much sex fixated and very sure of what they want. Granted I was only approached by him, but once I picked up the vibe and found out what he wanted, I agressively told him where to go and to stay the fuck away from me and any deluded young lad like me.
I'm a young guy and extreme run-ins like that are quite disturbing when I'm not too long around on the scene. He seemed like a very unassuming "normal" person as well, which is quite off putting. What's worse is he was probably casting very large nets and going after every possible person he could find which would make you a bit anxious as to how far he could spread something like that.

Just goes to show you can't always pick this type of person so easily out of the crowd.

pontia

i take back what i said,petrol prices have gone up.these people should be charged with premeditated murder

Smidge

@IZred

I had never heard of the expression before this thread and was shocked by it as I have a lot of gay friends(some now married and settled, some still single).
The thought of anyone willing to participate in this scene unsettled me.
I'm all for "whatever blows your skirt up" but playing this kind of Russian Roulette with your life, or another's for that matter, blew me away.

I found it upsetting as there are so many people gay and straight who have been affected by this disease and yet there are people out there getting their kicks from it.
Tragic.

I, 100% agree with you that there is some element of psychological malfunction in anyone who gets off on this.

kowloon

It's an interesting topic for a thesis, no doubt about that.
I'm going to be writing up a thesis of my own, is there any particular brand of crayon that's recommended?

pontia

but yet still you have this media crap with elton john ect raising money for aids awareness ,should have been put to find cancer cure

1ZRed

pontia wrote: »

but yet still you have this media crap with elton john ect raising money for aids awareness ,should have been put to find cancer cure

I don't believe there will ever be a spectacular drug that will cure cancer all on it's own because cancer is the malfunction of DNA, which mostly has the same function for everyone (junk DNA excluded), but is entirely unique.
I've read that nano technology and biomedical engineering is the only viable solution to the cure for cancer. It's only taken this long because cancer is a very very complex disease entirely based on the cell's inability to stop dividing at a normal pace - all caused by malfunctioning DNA.

But that's beside the main point. HIV and AIDS effects far more poeple than cancer, and the majority of funding was pulled away from it once the drugs to contain the disease was found. I think it's a very selfish call to make to say all further research should be halted because it doesn't hit home with you the same way cancer would.
Thankfully, the last protein sequence is believed to have been cracked and in 10-15 years, given current funding and low public interest, a viable cure may be found and put into production.

pontia

hold on a minute,ive had family members,friends of family young and old die of cancer,not 1 person i knew of aids,can you justify why so much money is wasted on aids research ? the real reason is because its like the feel good factor of helping 3rd world countries,looks good in the media.cancers not trendy

The Big Red Button

pontia wrote: »

hold on a minute,ive had family members,friends of family young and old die of cancer,not 1 person i knew of aids,can you justify why so much money is wasted on aids research ?

Because there are quite a few people in the world outside of your family and friends?

1ZRed

mishkalucy wrote: »

@IZred

I had never heard of the expression before this thread and was shocked by it as I have a lot of gay friends(some now married and settled, some still single).
The thought of anyone willing to participate in this scene unsettled me.
I'm all for "whatever blows your skirt up" but playing this kind of Russian Roulette with your life, or another's for that matter, blew me away.

I found it upsetting as there are so many people gay and straight who have been affected by this disease and yet there are people out there getting their kicks from it.
Tragic.

I, 100% agree with you that there is some element of psychological malfunction in anyone who gets off on this.

It is very unsettling but thankfully I'm in no possition to be manipulated. He wasn't direct about it but it was heavily insinuated, albeit, in a deceptive sort of way if you get me. In fairness, I probably couldn't call him a gift giver because he didn't say the necessary words but it was quite clear what his intentions were if you read between the lines.

Anyway, I'm very far removed from those situations, and I'm not some sort of sleazy dirty guy who would find these sort of people easily, but as I said, he was fairly unassuming and so casual about it. It was practically the first thing he said. It had the effect of throwing me off for a while anyway.

That's giving the gay community a bad name though, every guy I've meet was a normal guy who just happened to be gay. Headers like these are not exclusive to being gay, and I'm sure it also happens to straight people as well.
Nasty fucked up people either way you look at it.

pontia

chatterpillar wrote: »

Because there are quite a few people in the world outside of your family and friends?

anyone i know in ireland and outside would have the same story,its not a minority,you saying you know more people who died from aids compared to cancer ?

1ZRed

pontia wrote: »

anyone i know in ireland and outside would have the same story,its not a minority,you saying you know more people who died from aids compared to cancer ?

From reading your posts I always think you're just some troll. It's pretty sad on your part that that's actually not the case.

The Big Red Button

pontia wrote: »

anyone i know in ireland and outside would have the same story,its not a minority,you saying you know more people who died from aids compared to cancer ?

For a start, you do realise that there are well over 200 different types of cancer? Each of which requires its own research and treatment plans?

Smidge

1ZRed wrote: »

It is very unsettling but thankfully I'm in no possition to be manipulated. He wasn't direct about it but it was heavily insinuated, albeit, in a deceptive sort of way if you get me. In fairness, I probably couldn't call him a gift giver because he didn't say the necessary words but it was quite clear what his intentions were if you read between the lines.

Anyway, I'm very far removed from those situations, and I'm not some sort of sleazy dirty guy who would find these sort of people easily, but as I said, he was fairly unassuming and so casual about it. It was practically the first thing he said. It had the effect of throwing me off for a while anyway.

That's giving the gay community a bad name though, every guy I've meet was a normal guy who just happened to be gay. Headers like these are not exclusive to being gay, and I'm sure it also happens to straight people as well.
Nasty fucked up people either way you look at it.

Absolutely
Doesn't matter which community you are in, there are always people who have to push the envelope

pontia

try the main ones,bowel,prostate,breast and liver to start with that or is that a troll ? ive seen far to many come out of james hospital in a box to be listening to your condesending bull****

The Big Red Button

pontia wrote: »

try the main ones,bowel,prostate,breast and liver to start with that or is that a troll ? ive seen far to many come out of james hospital in a box to be listening to your condesending bull****

Your question is whether I know anyone who has died of any one of those four cancers? As it happens, no, I don't. (I do know quite a few who have died of other types of cancer. I'll also mention that prostate cancer is very treatable and not usually fatal.)

Nor do I, personally, know anyone who has died of AIDS (and anyways, this thread is meant to be about HIV - not AIDS.)

Not that any of that matters, as it would be anecdotal evidence - not relevant when it comes to medical research, which is based on real science and statistics - and not on cases that you or I personally know of.

pontia

throw in lung cancer or a few other beauts your either lying or only starting secondary school,so what have people you know died from so ?

The Big Red Button

Stomach cancer, brain cancer, leukaemia, ovarian cancer, to name a few ... it's not a competition.

Why do you feel it's in any way important? As I said, anecdotal evidence is irrelevant when it comes to medical research?

Giselle

pontia wrote: »

throw in lung cancer or a few other beauts your either lying or only starting secondary school,so what have people you know died from so ?

You don't see the irony of coming out with this after calling someone else condescending?

30 million people worldwide have HIV. Only a monster wouldn't want research into ending the suffering it causes people who are unfortunate enough not to live in the 1st world and have access to the very effective treatment.

pontia

anecdotal ? are you still trying to say aids deaths are anywhere near cancer ? i worked in james hospital.stop making a fool of yourself

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Colmustard

shopaholic01 wrote: »

Most sexually active people pick up at least one strain of this virus, condoms offer limited protection because it is transferred by skin to skin contact. If you're lucky your immune system suppresses it, otherwise you may have cervical changes/cancers or genital warts depernding on the strain.

That's an appalling attitude you had to deal with, it justs show the stigma associated with any STI. Most people think you have to be extremely promiscuous to develop any STI. I hope you're fully recovered now.

A garbled rubbish piece of advice, seriously do you think skin cells are bodily fluids. Do you understand bacteria or a viruses life cycle, they do live and do procreate, they need a wet medium. Not a hostile acidic or alkaline gob, which is a defensive shield of chemistry, a marvel of evolution. A thing that will kill a virus and some bacteria and keep us alive.

We don't contact disease agents through our mouths we get them from very fresh blood or bodillily fluid contact, or directly in our nose.

Us humans catch a lot of colds. And that is why the greatest virus fear in our lives should be the flu, it has killed a lot more of us.

So how many of you have kissed a person with flu.

If your answer is yes

You mass murdering cntu.

The Radiator

**** no, why the crap would I do that?

Smidge

Colmustard wrote: »

A garbled rubbish piece of advice, seriously do you think skin cells are bodily fluids. Do you understand bacteria or a viruses life cycle, they do live and do procreate, they need a wet medium. Not a hostile acidic or alkaline gob, which is a defensive shield of chemistry, a marvel of evolution. A thing that will kill a virus and some bacteria and keep us alive.

We don't contact disease agents through our mouths we get them from very fresh blood or bodillily fluid contact, or directly in our nose.

Us humans catch a lot of colds. And that is why the greatest virus fear in our lives should be the flu, it has killed a lot more of us.

So how many of you have kissed a person with flu.

If your answer is yes

You mass murdering cntu.

Eh I think she was talking about HPV and cervical cancer

pontia

cancer kills far more,hiv doesent kill you,cancer will kill a family member,your mother or father,sister or brother,1 in 4,could be me or you.dress it up how you want.its very unlikely most people will meet or know someone who has hiv/aids or has died from it.spend the money where its needed not some ribbon

Colmustard

mishkalucy wrote: »

Eh I think she was talking about HPV and cervical cancer

Apologies and yes a massive misquote/ and

1ZRed

pontia wrote: »

cancer kills far more,hiv doesent kill you,cancer will kill a family member,your mother or father,sister or brother,1 in 4,could be me or you.dress it up how you want.its very unlikely most people will meet or know someone who has hiv/aids or has died from it.spend the money where its needed not some ribbon

This is such a selfish mentality and completely inhumane. No one severe disease like these two is more entitled to better funding because you don't get effected by it.

It has nothing to do with *you*, medicine doesn't care about who you may or may not know who is inflicted by a disease, so to say that progress should be halted on it is COMPLETEY ignorant and heartless.

But yeah, it's alright because you don't know anybody with HIV. Ever stop to think other people do and millions suffer with it worldwide? HIV is currently incurable while cancer can be fought and eradicated from the body.

I'm not saying one is of more importance than the other, but HIV treatment does not receive as much funding as it should and because of that, progress in finding a cure has been slow and drawn out. Believe it or not I don't think any such breakthrough has been made since the 90s, and given how quickly science and medicine progresses, that's an eternity in the medical field.

randylonghorn

suicide_circus wrote: »

This sentence proves how broken the Irish education system is.

If you believe in the thesis ...

xDramaxQueenx wrote: »

Why should I explain the content of my thesis?

Because you brought it into the discussion, you referenced it to make your post seem more impressive (though it really didn't work tbh).

You didn't have to, but having referenced it, people are entitled to challenge you on it.

pontia wrote: »

anecdotal ? are you still trying to say aids deaths are anywhere near cancer ? i worked in james hospital. stop making a fool of yourself

pontia wrote: »

cancer kills far more,hiv doesent kill you,cancer will kill a family member,your mother or father,sister or brother,1 in 4,could be me or you.dress it up how you want.its very unlikely most people will meet or know someone who has hiv/aids or has died from it.spend the money where its needed not some ribbon

Cancer kills far more people in Ireland every year than have died of HIV/Aids ever, I suspect.

But we're just one small island on this planet, as I'm sure you've noticed, and the figures worldwide are somewhat different.

HUGE amounts of money have been spent and are spent on cancer research, and rightly so imo ... like you, I have walked behind the coffins of relatives and friends who have died from different forms of the disease.

I myself have never known someone here in Ireland who has died from HIV/AIDS.

But not for a second does that make me think that we shouldn't still be researching to find an adequate cure and eventually a vaccine / inoculation.

efb

I can have a daffodil and a red ribbon you don't have to chose.

Should AIDS research give all it's money to cancer research? What about other diseases?

MadsL

I'm a married man with a good friend who I have known through many stages of his life, his blissfully happy eight year relationship with a wonderful man, watching that man be diagnosed with cancer and go through chemo. Watching the relief as his partner got the all clear and go through 18 months of remission, I watched the utter despair as he was readmitted to hospital with the cancer back again. I was driving towards the hospital as I got the news that I was too late and his partner just died. I was forever grateful for the CoI woman priest who conducted his funeral without fuss and in full recognition of their love and committed relationship. And I watched and tried as much as I could to support my friend as he put his life back together. Then my wife and I cried again the night he told us he now knew he was HIV postive. I couldn't understand how someone's life could be so very hard.

Would I kiss someone with HIV? It is not a hypothetical for me. I kiss that man full on the lips hello/goodbye every time we meet. Why, because I always have, and I would never stop because I know his HIV status. And I cannot love him any the less for his status.

He just started training as a counsellor working with newly diagnosed HIV+ people.

HIV isn't a death sentence, and HIV+ people are not some kind of modern lepers. The ignorance on this thread is unbelievable. Those who are behaving with some kind of horror; please, please educate yourselves.

PandaX9

@Pontia, I find your stance on this topic both extremely childish and malinformed. You say you work in a hospital and use the logic of "I've never seen anyone die of AIDS therefore there must be none". Here's a little fun fact for you: We live on an island with a population of 6,399,152 (as of 2011). The world in total estimates at over 7 billion, a neat little thousand times that. Both are serious diseases, cancer has been around for centuries in individual cases contrary to popular belief, however most people just assumed that they were dying of something else at the time because awareness was virtually non existant. Awareness is what motivates the medical community to act.

pontia wrote: »

but yet still you have this media crap with elton john ect raising money for aids awareness ,should have been put to find cancer cure

How dare you. Seriously, I have never met a person who had HIV or AIDS but I think I'm a fairly open minded person and think that all people deserve the same amount of respect and patience. Please, take 2 minutes out of your oh so opinionated life and have a gander at this.

pontia wrote: »

hold on a minute,ive had family members,friends of family young and old die of cancer,not 1 person i knew of aids,can you justify why so much money is wasted on aids research ? the real reason is because its like the feel good factor of helping 3rd world countries,looks good in the media.cancers not trendy

Can you not logically see why no one you may know has died of AIDS or an otherwise HIV-related death?! Because we are lucky enough to live in a society that provides the healthcare to virtually put these diseases at bay. I'm sorry, as much as you may hate to hear this: Cancer is far more complicated in its structure and all forms of it are nearly completely unique and very loosely connected with the term "cancer". We simply do not have the information or the resources to find an equivalent sort of cure. That goes for the entire world, not just Ireland. So it's not like they're picking HIV over cancer because you say it's "trendy". The medical community just happens to know what to work with in terms of HIV and it's more relevant worldwide. Cancer awareness is more relevant to Ireland why? Because unfortunately the average life expectancy isn't quite as high as you'd imagine worldwide, even in some European countries. Some people who would be otherwise susceptible to getting cancer just do not live long enough to get it. And others who might have it brush it off because they simply do not know what is happening to them. It just happens to be more relevant to us because we are on an Ireland, a relatively controlled environment and therefore we have the resources to "contain" HIV. As you can see, roughly 6900 people in Ireland have HIV. And you know what? Thanks to the grace of living in a relatively open-minded first world country that does research on HIV, I daresay the vast majority of these people live very normal lives. Are you saying that the money that goes on saving these peoples lives is wasted? I'm sorry that you have lost people to cancer, but due to the social stigma attached to it: you may even know someone who has HIV. So taking into account these nearly 7k people, our money is wasted funding "3rd world AIDS epidemics"? Yes, while it is true that the prevalence of HIV/AIDS is significally higher in 3rd world countries, that does not mean that they are the priority for 1st world HIV research. Open your eyes a bit, the 1st world will prioritize themselves all the time. I wouldn't be surprised if all the AIDS research in Ireland was focused with mainly Irish people in mind. We cannot afford to be Rich Uncle Pennybags to those less fortunate to us all the time. Tough, but that's life at the moment. You should be thanking your stars that you happened to be born into a world that enabled you to live here as opposed to somewhere like the Congo. I'm all for charity, however both AIDS and Cancer research focus mainly on our people first. The extent of most 3rd world education on HIV is "wear a condom.".

Frankly, I would never reply to someone like you but your immature opinions have greatly angered me with their close-mindedness and childish feelings of "ooooh why do we waste money on bad people who have AIDS and not on people I know that died from Cancer?". I also know people who died of cancer. However I would never be able to tie that to AIDS research funding "taking away" from cancer research. It's just an unfortunate fact of life. And people do survive cancer. It does happen, thank god, and hopefully it'll be happening much more often.

And I really get the feeling that you're of the opinion that everyone with HIV has received it through reckless behaviour ie being a junkie thus sharing needles or having unprotected sex? How about the poor people who got it through blood transfusions? It's rare nowadays but I know someone who got Hep through an emergency transfusion and he hasn't left the hospital since the day he went in.. You can't generalize all sufferers. That's like saying that everyone with cancer is middle class. Ironically, everyone I know with cancer have come form wealthy backgrounds - but I know that that is a mostly happy coincidence because I happen to live in an area populated by mostly wealthy people. Not all AIDS sufferers are gay or junkies, just as not as cancer sufferers can be lumbered into a category.

Giselle

1ZRed wrote: »

I'm not saying one is of more importance than the other, but HIV treatment does not receive as much funding as it should and because of that, progress in finding a cure has been slow and drawn out. Believe it or not I don't think any such breakthrough has been made since the 90s, and given how quickly science and medicine progresses, that's an eternity in the medical field.

Advances in HIV treatment have been enormous since the 90's, with new, more effective, generations of drugs being marketed every few years.

There have been huge advances in treatment in terms of wiping out the side effects of those drugs and simplifying the regimen.

Daisy M

pontia wrote: »

cancer kills far more,hiv doesent kill you,cancer will kill a family member,your mother or father,sister or brother,1 in 4,could be me or you.dress it up how you want.its very unlikely most people will meet or know someone who has hiv/aids or has died from it.spend the money where its needed not some ribbon

So are you saying research should only be put all type of cancer and all other less common illness should be ignored until a cure for all cancer types is found?
Elton John raises money for something that is obviously close to his heart and thats his choice. You should try walking a mile in other peoples shoes and stop been so blinkered. Cancer is bad but trust me there are a lot worse illness out there which have very little treatment available.

Annasopra

Giselle wrote: »

FACT: Its rare, even in AH, that a single post can be home to so much misinformation and ignorance.

Keep living up to that username.

But she did a thesis

Annasopra

pontia wrote: »

anecdotal ? are you still trying to say aids deaths are anywhere near cancer ? i worked in james hospital.stop making a fool of yourself

Doing what? selling newspapers?

IvyTheTerrible

MadsL wrote: »

I'm a married man with a good friend who I have known through many stages of his life, his blissfully happy eight year relationship with a wonderful man, watching that man be diagnosed with cancer and go through chemo. Watching the relief as his partner got the all clear and go through 18 months of remission, I watched the utter despair as he was readmitted to hospital with the cancer back again. I was driving towards the hospital as I got the news that I was too late and his partner just died. I was forever grateful for the CoI woman priest who conducted his funeral without fuss and in full recognition of their love and committed relationship. And I watched and tried as much as I could to support my friend as he put his life back together. Then my wife and I cried again the night he told us he now knew he was HIV postive. I couldn't understand how someone's life could be so very hard.

Would I kiss someone with HIV? It is not a hypothetical for me. I kiss that man full on the lips hello/goodbye every time we meet. Why, because I always have, and I would never stop because I know his HIV status. And I cannot love him any the less for his status.

He just started training as a counsellor working with newly diagnosed HIV+ people.

HIV isn't a death sentence, and HIV+ people are not some kind of modern lepers. The ignorance on this thread is unbelievable. Those who are behaving with some kind of horror; please, please educate yourselves.

Totally agree with this. My partner's aunt is HIV positive, I kiss her on the cheek when I meet her (the French greeting), she plays with our baby, she is one of the best people I know.

say_who_now?

MadsL wrote: »

I'm a married man with a good friend who I have known through many stages of his life...

I kiss that man full on the lips hello/goodbye every time we meet. Why, because I always have, and I would never stop because I know his HIV status. And I cannot love him any the less for his status.

Point to prove much?

MadsL wrote: »

HIV isn't a death sentence, and HIV+ people are not some kind of modern lepers. The ignorance on this thread is unbelievable. Those who are behaving with some kind of horror; please, please educate yourselves.

Most people would acknowledge it's not a death sentence, but it's still not bloody nice to contract it from somebody! I'd say the same about anyone who had an STI tbh. It's one of the reason's one is encouraged to wear a condom when having sex, I have no need to feel righteous- "Look at me, I know this person has an STD but I'm going to have sex with them without a condom, aren't I great?". No, what I'm saying is it's only common sense to be cautious. If I KNOW someone is HIV+, then I would certainly be more cautious than if I was unaware of the fact.

My wife's ex-boyfriend was an haemophiliac (this is back 15 years ago at the height of the AIDS scare epidemic when even less was known about HIV and AIDS. My wife had no idea he was a haemophiliac until when she was breaking up with him he told her "yeah well I have AIDS". This terrified my wife for months, and even now to this day (I am a regular blood donor!), she asks would they tell you if they found anything. This might be an irrational fear to me, but for her it's still VERY real, even though she's been tested and cleared and both of us have been for many STI tests since (purely because I'm a firm believer in looking after your sexual health anway!).

So if a person made me aware that they were HIV+, certainly I'd be more cautious in my interactions with them, I wouldn't go so far as some posters here are implying that I would treat them like a leper, but just in the same way as it only takes one sperm to get a girl pregnant, we are talking at the microscopic invisible to the human eye level here when it comes to these virii, and all it takes is a microscopic lesion (windy day- chapped lips? it happens!) for transference to occur. It's just a risk that I personally am not prepared to take, no matter how miniscule. I also don't jump out of planes because somebody tells me that there's no chance I could break my legs when I land, perfectly safe. Yeah, that's fine and all, but I personally am not prepared to risk it.

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

Totally agree with this. My partner's aunt is HIV positive, I kiss her on the cheek when I meet her (the French greeting), she plays with our baby, she is one of the best people I know.

Have you considered the fact that your baby might bite your aunt at some stage and draw blood? I know my child when they were a baby bit me on the arm when he was teething and drew blood, not a lot, but then as I said, we are talking at the microscopic level here. I took precautions then to make sure he didn't bite me again. This was just common sense.

So I may be considered closed minded / self-righteous / bigoted / <insert clichéd dismissive here>, but I would rather be considered all those things than put myself at risk of contracting an infection that while it may not be life threatening, it certainly requires life adjustments, and it's not a pleasant infection to have to live with, purely based on the health aspects alone, not even considering the social stigma that some posters here are unwilling to acknowledge as the elephant in the room. The fact is there is a social sticma about any infection that is contagious, and you can educate people all you like, but you cannot defy human nature, and everyone has fears of something that somebody else would consider irrational.

username123

say_who_now? wrote: »

Have you considered the fact that your baby might bite your aunt at some stage and draw blood? I know my child when they were a baby bit me on the arm when he was teething and drew blood, not a lot, but then as I said, we are talking at the microscopic level here. I took precautions then to make sure he didn't bite me again. This was just common sense.

If someones baby bit and drew the blood of someone who is HIV positive:
(a) its likely the HIV positive persons viral load is low, if they are on treatment for the virus
(b) same as for kissing, unless there are open cuts or sores on or in the babies mouth, blood to blood transmission is unlikely anyway.

Scanlas The 2nd

username123 wrote: »

say_who_now? wrote: »

Have you considered the fact that your baby might bite your aunt at some stage and draw blood? I know my child when they were a baby bit me on the arm when he was teething and drew blood, not a lot, but then as I said, we are talking at the microscopic level here. I took precautions then to make sure he didn't bite me again. This was just common sense.

If someones baby bit and drew the blood of someone who is HIV positive:
(a) its likely the HIV positive persons viral load is low, if they are on treatment for the virus
(b) same as for kissing, unless there are open cuts or sores on or in the babies mouth, blood to blood transmission is unlikely anyway.

So if you swallow HIV or hep infected blood you won't be infected? I'd say there is a chance at least?

say_who_now?

username123 wrote: »

If someones baby bit and drew the blood of someone who is HIV positive:
(a) its likely the HIV positive persons viral load is low, if they are on treatment for the virus
(b) same as for kissing, unless there are open cuts or sores on or in the babies mouth, blood to blood transmission is unlikely anyway.

see there's that word again- "likely" that the viral load is low, "unlikely" that there would be blood to blood transmission.

I prefer to acknowledge that there IS a risk, no matter how dismissive other people might be of that risk, it's still a risk, and one which I personally would prefer to avoid. Just like the parachute jump analogy I used- you can always minimise and play down the risk that I might break my legs, it's unlikely to happen, it's likely I'll make a safe landing. This doesn't mean the risk does not exist, and because I am aware of it, it is this risk that puts me off doing a parachute jump. Now if I was NOT made aware of this risk, I'd happily do a parachute jump as it looks like something I would love to try! Just that I am not prepared to take that chance, knowing the risks involved.

humbert

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

So if you swallow HIV or hep infected blood you won't be infected? I'd say there is a chance at least?

There are no absolutes. For example it would be technically incorrect to say you can't catch HIV from walking passed someone with it but the chances are infinitesimally small.

Likewise our stomachs are designed to kill viruses and bacteria so swallowing blood isn't a significant risk.

corktina

i'd kiss anyone...sad desperate git that I am.

Annasopra

say_who_now? wrote: »

see there's that word again- "likely" that the viral load is low, "unlikely" that there would be blood to blood transmission.

I prefer to acknowledge that there IS a risk, no matter how dismissive other people might be of that risk, it's still a risk, and one which I personally would prefer to avoid. Just like the parachute jump analogy I used- you can always minimise and play down the risk that I might break my legs, it's unlikely to happen, it's likely I'll make a safe landing. This doesn't mean the risk does not exist, and because I am aware of it, it is this risk that puts me off doing a parachute jump. Now if I was NOT made aware of this risk, I'd happily do a parachute jump as it looks like something I would love to try! Just that I am not prepared to take that chance, knowing the risks involved.

Everything in life is risky. Eating, breathing. I think most of us will acknowledge the risk but also that the risk is MINIMAL. If we all started being fearful of tiny tiny risks then we would all have literally no lives - we would not walk outside the front door for fear of gunmen, we wouldn't go in cars for fear of crashing, we wouldn't eat for fear of being poisoned, we wouldn't go to the toilet for fear of catching diseases from the germs.

say_who_now?

mango salsa wrote: »

Everything in life is risky. Eating, breathing. I think most of us will acknowledge the risk but also that the risk is MINIMAL. If we all started being fearful of tiny tiny risks then we would all have literally no lives - we would not walk outside the front door for fear of gunmen, we wouldn't go in cars for fear of crashing, we wouldn't eat for fear of being poisoned, we wouldn't go to the toilet for fear of catching diseases from the germs.

And some of us wouldn't even kiss HIV and hepatitis sufferers.

A couple of years ago I had my brother stay over on a visit from Wales. He was a nurse at the time in a large London hospital. On the way home, he asked could we stop in at Tesco as he needed to get a few things. He came out carrying two bottles of thick bleach and an armful of kitchen towels. I questioned him-

"Where are you going with those?"

"Well just in case your apartment isn't clean!"

I quickly told him he was more than welcome to stay in a hotel. He decided that the risk to his health was not worth the money he would have to pay for a hotel.

So we went out for a drink that night. I ordered a pint of guinness for me and a pint of bulmers for my brother. "I'll have it in a bottle" he said, as the barmaid handed him a bottle and an empty glass (no ice of course, e-coli, etc!). Then my brother proceeded to lift up the empty glass and examine it under the light, "the hell do you think you're doing?" I inquired. "I'm checking it for any cracks or dirt!". It was at this point that I decided to minimize my risk of being in the company of a twat, and left.

The point being that there is a risk and reward conundrum in play here. I acknowledge in the case of kissing a person with HIV or hepatitis that there is a risk to my health, however miniscule that risk might be, and my own behaviour will reflect that as I make a conscious decision to avoid such behaviour. I have no will nor wish to kiss a person I know to be infected with a contagious disease.

This is no more irrational nor unreasonable as some would see it than my brother's fear of contamination from external sources in his environment. As you quite rightly point out mango it precludes him from participating in certain activities, as my fears do me, but it does not make me an ignorant person or less "open minded" or tolerant than anyone else. Some of the posters that would kiss a person with a contagious disease might baulk at the idea of a parachute jump.

In short- contagious diseases will compromise my immune system, but names will never hurt me.

MadsL

say_who_now? wrote: »

Point to prove much?

MadsL wrote: »

I kiss that man full on the lips hello/goodbye every time we meet. Why, because I always have, and I would never stop because I know his HIV status. And I cannot love him any the less for his status.

I have a few friends that I kiss on the lips when we meet, one a female married friend, the others a couple of male gay friends. No points to prove just the way we greet each other. As you see above I have always done this with my friend not only since he was confirmed positive.

Does that offend you in some way?

floggg

say_who_now? wrote: »

mango salsa wrote: »

Everything in life is risky. Eating, breathing. I think most of us will acknowledge the risk but also that the risk is MINIMAL. If we all started being fearful of tiny tiny risks then we would all have literally no lives - we would not walk outside the front door for fear of gunmen, we wouldn't go in cars for fear of crashing, we wouldn't eat for fear of being poisoned, we wouldn't go to the toilet for fear of catching diseases from the germs.

And some of us wouldn't even kiss HIV and hepatitis sufferers.

A couple of years ago I had my brother stay over on a visit from Wales. He was a nurse at the time in a large London hospital. On the way home, he asked could we stop in at Tesco as he needed to get a few things. He came out carrying two bottles of thick bleach and an armful of kitchen towels. I questioned him-

"Where are you going with those?"

"Well just in case your apartment isn't clean!"

I quickly told him he was more than welcome to stay in a hotel. He decided that the risk to his health was not worth the money he would have to pay for a hotel.

So we went out for a drink that night. I ordered a pint of guinness for me and a pint of bulmers for my brother. "I'll have it in a bottle" he said, as the barmaid handed him a bottle and an empty glass (no ice of course, e-coli, etc!). Then my brother proceeded to lift up the empty glass and examine it under the light, "the hell do you think you're doing?" I inquired. "I'm checking it for any cracks or dirt!". It was at this point that I decided to minimize my risk of being in the company of a twat, and left.

The point being that there is a risk and reward conundrum in play here. I acknowledge in the case of kissing a person with HIV or hepatitis that there is a risk to my health, however miniscule that risk might be, and my own behaviour will reflect that as I make a conscious decision to avoid such behaviour. I have no will nor wish to kiss a person I know to be infected with a contagious disease.

This is no more irrational nor unreasonable as some would see it than my brother's fear of contamination from external sources in his environment. As you quite rightly point out mango it precludes him from participating in certain activities, as my fears do me, but it does not make me an ignorant person or less "open minded" or tolerant than anyone else. Some of the posters that would kiss a person with a contagious disease might baulk at the idea of a parachute jump.

In short- contagious diseases will compromise my immune system, but names will never hurt me.

Your right, it is comparable with your brothers paranoia.

Interesting to note you seem to suggest his irrational paranoia made him a twat

say_who_now?

MadsL wrote: »

I have a few friends that I kiss on the lips when we meet, one a female married friend, the others a couple of male gay friends. No points to prove just the way we greet each other. As you see above I have always done this with my friend not only since he was confirmed positive.

Does that offend you in some way?

Really? you're REALLY trying to go there? Fine then, I'll answer your question, since it seems you actually DO think you have a point to prove.

NO, it doesn't offend me, it made me wonder alright why a married man would feel the need to kiss his male friend full on the lips as it's certainly not the way I, as a heterosexual male, greet my friends, usually a simple handshake suffices, or to my female friends maybe at best as another poster mentioned earlier, a french greeting (the double kiss), but to actually kiss my male friends full on the lips would not only make them wonder, but it would make my wife wonder too, and to be honest I can't say I'd blame her.

Now see in your OP where you mentioned that you kiss your male friend full on the lips as you have always done, you omitted the fact that you actually greet ALL your friends this way, so naturally as it is not a common method of greeting one's friends I'd have heard of before, I assumed that it was only this particular friend that you kissed full on the lips. This is why I took from your post that you had some particular point to prove, as I would have thought this to be unusual behaviour particularly towards just this one individual.

If I'm to be completely honest with you, if I was this particular individual, I would find your way of greeting me rather patronising, even moreso the fact that you think kissing me full on the lips is something you are to be applauded for.

Annasopra

say_who_now? wrote: »

And some of us wouldn't even kiss HIV and hepatitis sufferers.

A couple of years ago I had my brother stay over on a visit from Wales. He was a nurse at the time in a large London hospital. On the way home, he asked could we stop in at Tesco as he needed to get a few things. He came out carrying two bottles of thick bleach and an armful of kitchen towels. I questioned him-

"Where are you going with those?"

"Well just in case your apartment isn't clean!"

I quickly told him he was more than welcome to stay in a hotel. He decided that the risk to his health was not worth the money he would have to pay for a hotel.

So we went out for a drink that night. I ordered a pint of guinness for me and a pint of bulmers for my brother. "I'll have it in a bottle" he said, as the barmaid handed him a bottle and an empty glass (no ice of course, e-coli, etc!). Then my brother proceeded to lift up the empty glass and examine it under the light, "the hell do you think you're doing?" I inquired. "I'm checking it for any cracks or dirt!". It was at this point that I decided to minimize my risk of being in the company of a twat, and left.

The point being that there is a risk and reward conundrum in play here. I acknowledge in the case of kissing a person with HIV or hepatitis that there is a risk to my health, however miniscule that risk might be, and my own behaviour will reflect that as I make a conscious decision to avoid such behaviour. I have no will nor wish to kiss a person I know to be infected with a contagious disease.

This is no more irrational nor unreasonable as some would see it than my brother's fear of contamination from external sources in his environment. As you quite rightly point out mango it precludes him from participating in certain activities, as my fears do me, but it does not make me an ignorant person or less "open minded" or tolerant than anyone else. Some of the posters that would kiss a person with a contagious disease might baulk at the idea of a parachute jump.

In short- contagious diseases will compromise my immune system, but names will never hurt me.

You're right it is completely irrational.

I feel genuinely sorry for you that you let fear hold you back so much in life.

I feel sorry for you that when you see people you see diseases and infections before you see humanity or personality