Would you kiss someone with HIV/hepatitis?

say_who_now?

floggg wrote: »

Your right, it is comparable with your brothers paranoia.

Interesting to note you seem to suggest his irrational paranoia made him a twat

I never once used the word paranoia, I said that in my opinion his behaviour was irrational, the very same way as some would consider my behaviour irrational, and would dismiss me as an ignorant bigot, they would be far too intellectual to use a word such as twat, although I have been called a few choice names in my time by people who considered my behaviour irrational because they misunderstood my reasoning.

bodice ripper

HIV yes, hepatitis possibly not.

shrewd

Yamanoto wrote: »

I wouldn't kiss someone with a mild case of OCD.

Don't wanna spend the rest of my life avoiding the cracks on paving stones.

LOL, . This is why i love After Hours. What a Response!!

say_who_now?

mango salsa wrote: »

You're right it is completely irrational.

I feel genuinely sorry for you that you let fear hold you back so much in life.

I feel sorry for you that when you see people you see diseases and infections before you see humanity or personality

No mango, you misunderstand what I am saying, though I have a feeling you are doing so on purpose.

My fear of kissing someone who I know to be infected with a contagious disease has not held me back at all in life, I have yet to actually meet someone who I know to be infected with HIV or hepatitis, so your assertion that I see diseases and infections before I see humanity or personality is a complete falsification based on the lack of facts you have to hand. I may have kissed many people who were infected with contagious diseases, I may even have had sex with them, but I never thought to ask beforehand whether they had any infectious diseases, because self preservation and my health is MY responsibility, not theirs, and whether they have HIV or hepatitis would have only become an issue should I have chosen to form a relationship with them, or should they have chosen to MAKE it my business by informing me that they were carriers of a contagious disease.

Some of my friends in the past have informed me that they had an infectious disease such as an STI. This did not make me look at them any differently, because I was not sexually active with them, so it was not going to affect me one way or the other. But if I were sexually active with them, then yes, it would have made me more cautious and I would have sought further measures to minimise even further the risk of cross infection. That, to me, is just simple common sense.

Annasopra

say_who_now? wrote: »

No mango, you misunderstand what I am saying, though I have a feeling you are doing so on purpose.

My fear of kissing someone who I know to be infected with a contagious disease has not held me back at all in life, I have yet to actually meet someone who I know to be infected with HIV or hepatitis, so your assertion that I see diseases and infections before I see humanity or personality is a complete falsification based on the lack of facts you have to hand. I may have kissed many people who were infected with contagious diseases, I may even have had sex with them, but I never thought to ask beforehand whether they had any infectious diseases, because self preservation and my health is MY responsibility, not theirs, and whether they have HIV or hepatitis would have only become an issue should I have chosen to form a relationship with them, or should they have chosen to MAKE it my business by informing me that they were carriers of a contagious disease.

Some of my friends in the past have informed me that they had an infectious disease such as an STI. This did not make me look at them any differently, because I was not sexually active with them, so it was not going to affect me one way or the other. But if I were sexually active with them, then yes, it would have made me more cautious and I would have sought further measures to minimise even further the risk of cross infection. That, to me, is just simple common sense.

The problem is that I see what you are saying as completely irrational and completely lacking common sense. I am sure your brother thought his buying bleach and checking glasses was common sense but you recognised the complete irrationality of it.

humbert

mango salsa wrote: »

The problem is that I see what you are saying as completely irrational and completely lacking common sense. I am sure your brother thought his buying bleach and checking glasses was common sense but you recognised the complete irrationality of it.

You've decided to equate two wildly different examples and then leap to your desired conclusion. Congratulations.

OldNotWIse

No.

Grabs coat and runs....

say_who_now?

mango salsa wrote: »

The problem is that I see what you are saying as completely irrational and completely lacking common sense. I am sure your brother thought his buying bleach and checking glasses was common sense but you recognised the complete irrationality of it.

Exactly. Therefore all it comes down to is a difference of opinion and one's perspective of rational and irrational behaviour. I know my behaviour may seem irrational to some, and they will choose how they interact with me (or not!) based on their opinion of my behaviour.

People are not vessels of identical thought, they are entitled to their opinions, ideas and principles, and althouth I may disagree with others views, I have the choice not to interact with them should I wish to do so. I may lose out on other aspects of their personality, but them's the breaks as they say.

1ZRed

Giselle wrote: »

Advances in HIV treatment have been enormous since the 90's, with new, more effective, generations of drugs being marketed every few years.

There have been huge advances in treatment in terms of wiping out the side effects of those drugs and simplifying the regimen.

Oh yeah I completely understand that. Although I'm not all that well informed on that side of the argument, I was referring to HIV cures in my post, not treatment, and how little progression there has been on that front.

I've read that there hasn't been a major advancement in finding a cure since the 90s. Although earlier this year, scientists announced that they may have found the correct protein sequence which may lead way to a cure in future.

Annasopra

humbert wrote: »

You've decided to equate two wildly different examples and then leap to your desired conclusion. Congratulations.

Both cases are irrational. They know there is a risk but they refuse to accept the risk is minimal and choose to act in ways that make no sense.

say_who_now?

mango salsa wrote: »

Both cases are irrational. They know there is a risk but they refuse to accept the risk is minimal and choose to act in ways that make no sense.

to you.

That's the important distinction you forgot to make there.

bodice ripper

mango salsa wrote: »

Both cases are irrational. They know there is a risk but they refuse to accept the risk is minimal and choose to act in ways that make no sense.

I am by no means certain on this, but I'm thinking the risk is more substantial with hepatitis

floggg

say_who_now? wrote: »

It was at this point that I decided to minimize my risk of being in the company of a twat, and left.

Twat was your choice of word, not mine. I wouldn't call you a bigot, maybe just irrational and insensitive.

I agree everybody should be cautious about STDs - I just think your response should be proportionate to the risks, and shouldn't mean stigmatising or avoiding certain people unnecessarily.

I haven't seen you particualrly demonising HIV positive people (unlike some), so your not bigoted in my book though.

say_who_now? wrote: »

I never once used the word paranoia, I said that in my opinion his behaviour was irrational, the very same way as some would consider my behaviour irrational, and would dismiss me as an ignorant bigot, they would be far too intellectual to use a word such as twat, although I have been called a few choice names in my time by people who considered my behaviour irrational because they misunderstood my reasoning.

I think in your borther's case, arguing over paranoia and irrational is splitting hairs. The same could potentially apply to some of the responses posted on this thread about HIV/Hepatitis.

say_who_now? wrote: »

NO, it doesn't offend me, it made me wonder alright why a married man would feel the need to kiss his male friend full on the lips as it's certainly not the way I, as a heterosexual male, greet my friends, usually a simple handshake suffices, or to my female friends maybe at best as another poster mentioned earlier, a french greeting (the double kiss), but to actually kiss my male friends full on the lips would not only make them wonder, but it would make my wife wonder too, and to be honest I can't say I'd blame her.

If I'm to be completely honest with you, if I was this particular individual, I would find your way of greeting me rather patronising, even moreso the fact that you think kissing me full on the lips is something you are to be applauded for.

To be honest, as a now comfortably out gay man who went through a "trying to hard to assert my manhood and heterosexuality" phase, I would tell any wife that they have far less to fear from a husband who is comfortable with displaying affection to other men, then a husband who was uncomfortable with doing so, or was worried about how any form of affection might be construed.

A straight man who is comfortable with his sexuality has nothing to fear from "appearances."

And I didn't think the OP was saying he should be applauded, just answering the question posed in this thread by stating that he has no hesitation in kissing a person with HIV.

Scanlas The 2nd

bodice ripper wrote: »

mango salsa wrote: »

Both cases are irrational. They know there is a risk but they refuse to accept the risk is minimal and choose to act in ways that make no sense.

I am by no means certain on this, but I'm thinking the risk is more substantial with hepatitis

It's more likely with hep c as it can remain infectious for four days on dried blood. It's still highly unlikely. It's also highly unusual to infect your long term partner with hep c. I think hep b is more likely to be passed on.

PandaX9

say_who_now? wrote: »

Point to prove much?

Most people would acknowledge it's not a death sentence, but it's still not bloody nice to contract it from somebody! I'd say the same about anyone who had an STI tbh. It's one of the reason's one is encouraged to wear a condom when having sex, I have no need to feel righteous- "Look at me, I know this person has an STD but I'm going to have sex with them without a condom, aren't I great?". No, what I'm saying is it's only common sense to be cautious. If I KNOW someone is HIV+, then I would certainly be more cautious than if I was unaware of the fact.

So if a person made me aware that they were HIV+, certainly I'd be more cautious in my interactions with them, I wouldn't go so far as some posters here are implying that I would treat them like a leper, but just in the same way as it only takes one sperm to get a girl pregnant, we are talking at the microscopic invisible to the human eye level here when it comes to these virii, and all it takes is a microscopic lesion (windy day- chapped lips? it happens!) for transference to occur. It's just a risk that I personally am not prepared to take, no matter how miniscule. I also don't jump out of planes because somebody tells me that there's no chance I could break my legs when I land, perfectly safe. Yeah, that's fine and all, but I personally am not prepared to risk it.

So I may be considered closed minded / self-righteous / bigoted / <insert clichéd dismissive here>, but I would rather be considered all those things than put myself at risk of contracting an infection that while it may not be life threatening, it certainly requires life adjustments, and it's not a pleasant infection to have to live with, purely based on the health aspects alone, not even considering the social stigma that some posters here are unwilling to acknowledge as the elephant in the room. The fact is there is a social sticma about any infection that is contagious, and you can educate people all you like, but you cannot defy human nature, and everyone has fears of something that somebody else would consider irrational.

I actually respect your opinion, you are acting out your most basic instinct to protect yourself and I can find no fault with that. You are not hurting anyone with this, the opinion I had problems with before were the likes of Drama Queen and Pontia or whatever and their whole "OMG no people with AIDS are bad and it's dangerous to be breathing the same air and AIDS is not a worthy enough disease to require funding". fair enough, you naturally want to protect yourself and your family, as long as you're fully aware of the risks and you're not spouting bigoted nonsense - you're fine in my books. I may not understand your over-cautiousness, however I don't see why others should have a problem with it. I myself am also extremely cautious in all aspects involving my health - not because I think I'm superior or "ew its icky", but now I think I'm the biggest medical disaster in ireland in that possibly anything could kill me seeing as my body just has a deficit of everything :P So in short, I do not consider you closed minded for your opinions because at least you put them across in a well informed, and thank god, a well written manner. PS I think that last point was bang on.

But the case you mentioned with your brother was weeeeeird.

Anyway, back to the main topic at hand:

Does anyone know the average annual cost of HIV funding/research & development for Ireland actually? Can't imagine it'd be all that high unfortunately

say_who_now?

floggg wrote: »

Twat was your choice of word, not mine. I wouldn't call you a bigot, maybe just irrational and insensitive.

I can certainly see why you might think of me that way, my wife has oft referred to me as an insensitive, inconsiderate prick, so there must be something in it!

floggg wrote: »

I agree everybody should be cautious about STDs - I just think your response should be proportionate to the risks, and shouldn't mean stigmatising or avoiding certain people unnecessarily.

Ah now, I would never stigmatise or avoid anyone unnecessarily, I would just avoid kissing them is all. I would think this a proportionate response to the risk of contracting a disease that could (however small that risk might be) be contagious. For example, my wife has a coldsore on her lip at the moment, I avoid kissing her because I would rather not risk contracting the virus responsible for coldsores from her. She reckons she got it from an unclean cup in a restaurant. I personally don't care where she got it, I just know I don't want it!

floggg wrote: »

To be honest, as a now comfortably out gay man who went through a "trying to hard to assert my manhood and heterosexuality" phase, I would tell any wife that they have far less to fear from a husband who is comfortable with displaying affection to other men, then a husband who was uncomfortable with doing so, or was worried about how any form of affection might be construed.

A straight man who is comfortable with his sexuality has nothing to fear from "appearances."

See there's displaying affection to other men, and then there's kissing other men full on the lips as a form of greeting them! I would consider such behaviour socially inappropriate and if I was a gay man I would consider a heterosexual man trying to kiss me full on the lips as using me in his over-zealous attempt to show how "comfortable" he is with "the gheys", which is why I would consider such actions patronising. I've often hugged men, given them proper bear hugs, whether it be for a laugh, or to comfort them. as a teenager I experimented with other guys, which helped me figure out that I was heterosexual, as playing tonsil tennis with other guys did nothing for me.

I agree with you that a straight man who is comfortable with his sexuality has nothing to fear from appearances, but I do not agree that his wife has nothing to fear from him kissing another man full on the lips. I'd say there would be a lot of women who would witness their husband upon greeting another man kissing him full on the lips would at least raise an eyebrow or two. I know certainly it'd raise my wife's eyebrows if on meeting one of my female friends I were to kiss her full on the lips, let alone another man!

floggg wrote: »

And I didn't think the OP was saying he should be applauded, just answering the question posed in this thread by stating that he has no hesitation in kissing a person with HIV.

Stating it in a manner that in my opinion was rather over-zealous to be honest. Even disregarding the fact that he is married, even disregarding the fact that he knew this person a long time, I would not kiss another man full on the lips when a simple handshake to greet them is the socially accepted norm. I got alright where he was coming from that he had no issue with kissing another person who was HIV+, but I just thought they went a bit OTT to make their point is all.

humbert

mango salsa wrote: »

Both cases are irrational. They know there is a risk but they refuse to accept the risk is minimal and choose to act in ways that make no sense.

No they are not. The quite rational (but perhaps selfish or unkind) reason for not kissing someone with HIV has been explained many times in thread, by myself included.

His brother on the other hand was behaving in a way that affected every facet of his life and offended those closes to him in a most likely futile attempt to avoid germs that would most probably do him no long term harm.

These are not equivalent as any objective rational individual will attest. Having made this daft leap to conclude that the poster is irrational you take the opportunity to be condescending and patronising

mango salsa wrote:

I feel genuinely sorry for you that you let fear hold you back so much in life.

I feel sorry for you that when you see people you see diseases and infections before you see humanity or personality

MadsL

say_who_now? wrote: »

See there's displaying affection to other men, and then there's kissing other men full on the lips as a form of greeting them! I would consider such behaviour socially inappropriate

You are now trying to say the way I greet certain of my friends is 'socially inappropriate' - are you for real?? Regardless of what you think if I do this in public, how dare you tell me what is appropriate in my own home. And talking of in public are you really going to go to the point of saying you think it is socially inappropriate for two men to kiss on the lips in public???

and if I was a gay man I would consider a heterosexual man trying to kiss me full on the lips as using me in his over-zealous attempt to show how "comfortable" he is with "the gheys",

What utter horse****, I'm not trying to do that, it is part of what we do as friends, there's no agenda. My friend greets most of his friends this way, including those straight men who are comfortable with it.

which is why I would consider such actions patronising.

My friend doesn't. I care about his feeling a damn sight more than I care about your opinions.

I've often hugged men, given them proper bear hugs, whether it be for a laugh, or to comfort them. as a teenager I experimented with other guys, which helped me figure out that I was heterosexual, as playing tonsil tennis with other guys did nothing for me.

And yet you use the phrase 'the gheys' above which really doesn't mean what you think it means.

I agree with you that a straight man who is comfortable with his sexuality has nothing to fear from appearances, but I do not agree that his wife has nothing to fear from him kissing another man full on the lips.

I'd say there would be a lot of women who would witness their husband upon greeting another man kissing him full on the lips would at least raise an eyebrow or two. I know certainly it'd raise my wife's eyebrows if on meeting one of my female friends I were to kiss her full on the lips, let alone another man!

More utter nonsense. My wife knows my friends well, and has nothing more to fear from my gay friend than my married female friend who I also greet the same way. She is also a mature secure woman and we have a strong marriage.
I'm not sticking my tongue down anyone's throat ffs!

Stating it in a manner that in my opinion was rather over-zealous to be honest. Even disregarding the fact that he is married, even disregarding the fact that he knew this person a long time, I would not kiss another man full on the lips when a simple handshake to greet them is the socially accepted norm.

Did you read a single thing about the emotional history that I have shared with this man. A handshake for god's sake! What planet are you on???

I got alright where he was coming from that he had no issue with kissing another person who was HIV+, but I just thought they went a bit OTT to make their point is all.

OTT? Jesus, forgive my honesty in sharing something so personal. I won't bother again.

You come across as unbelievably pompous by the way, you might want to reflect on that.

Micky Dolenz

I hug and kiss most of my friends, male and female, when I see them.

I save the biggest hugs and kisses for those who are a bit awkward about it

DaveNoCheese

MadsL wrote: »

say_who_now? wrote: »

See there's displaying affection to other men, and then there's kissing other men full on the lips as a form of greeting them! I would consider such behaviour socially inappropriate

You are now trying to say the way I greet certain of my friends is 'socially inappropriate' - are you for real?? Regardless of what you think if I do this in public, how dare you tell me what is appropriate in my own home. And talking of in public are you really going to go to the point of saying you think it is socially inappropriate for two men to kiss on the lips in public???

@ madsl, Are you for real?!

You're picking an argument out of nothing. Some people are too sensitive for there own good! And that's not directly directed at you, just people in general.

Now after observing the last few posts I'm gonna go before I get myself in trouble!

Actually, for the record, no I wouldn't kiss someone who I knew to have HIV, otherwise I wouldn't even think of it if kissing someone in a pub or club that I just met.

MadsL

Who are you aiming that post at? Not really clear from your post.

DaveNoCheese

MadsL wrote: »

Who are you aiming that post at? Not really clear from your post.

Post edited accordingly

MadsL

You are claiming that me taking issue with a guy who is trying to tell me that kissing another man on the lips in my own home is "socially unacceptable" is me picking the argument. Wow. Unreal.

Read the thread again, I think you need to.

DaveNoCheese

MadsL wrote: »

You are claiming that me taking issue with a guy who is trying to tell me that kissing another man on the lips in my own home is "socially unacceptable" is me picking the argument. Wow. Unreal.

Read the thread again, I think you need to.

The other fella said he would consider it socially inappropiate about greeting men with a kiss on the lips as a man (which most peole would agree on) and you went on a rant about kissing men on the lips in public? And now it's back to your own home?

Your picking an argument and making things up!

MadsL

DaveNoCheese wrote: »

The other fella said he would consider it socially inappropiate about greeting men with a kiss on the lips as a man (which most peole would agree on) and you went on a rant about kissing men on the lips in public? And now it's back to your own home?

Most people in Ireland think it is socially inappropriate for men to greet men with a kiss on the lips? What century is this you are talking about?

He said "socially inappropriate" not "socially inappropriate in public" that includes my own home. He also implied it was socially inappropriate for me to do that to a woman.

making things up!

Nope, that's you deciding what "most people would agree on".

say_who_now?

MadsL wrote: »

You are now trying to say the way I greet certain of my friends is 'socially inappropriate' - are you for real?? Regardless of what you think if I do this in public, how dare you tell me what is appropriate in my own home. And talking of in public are you really going to go to the point of saying you think it is socially inappropriate for two men to kiss on the lips in public???

Im out at the minute having drinks with friends, so I'll try manage this on mobile. First off I NEVER told you what was or wasn't appropriate "in your own home". You added that yourself.

Second- nice try, but I never suggested either that it was inappropriate for two men to kiss in public. I said YOUR'S, and your friend's greeting each other the way you do, was SOCIALLY inappropriate.

MadsL wrote: »

OTT? Jesus, forgive my honesty in sharing something so personal. I won't bother again.

Please don't. I think this thread has been derailed enough already with your unnecessary justifications for your behaviour. What you do with your friends and how you greet each other is your own business, works for you and all that. I COULD care less, but because I actually sought to understand your motivations, I've entertained you thus far.

MadsL wrote: »

You come across as unbelievably pompous by the way, you might want to reflect on that.

I always consider the source before I reflect on anything, you too might do well to reflect on that before you get so heated in a discussion.

DaveNoCheese

MadsL wrote: »

Most people in Ireland think it is socially inappropiate for men to greet men with a kiss on the lips?

Yup cause every tom, dick and harry gives each other a smooch when they meet in the pub. What fantasy world are you living in?

Anyway I'm out!

Daisy M

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I hug and kiss most of my friends, male and female, when I see them.

I save the biggest hugs and kisses for those who are a bit awkward about it

My friends are all huggers and kissers (thankfully on the cheek) it took me years to stop acting like a wooden stick when they threw their arms around me, eventually I learned to fake it and now I actually enjoy the odd squeeze but only with people I know very well, you would knock miles out of me:). However there is no way I kiss anyone on the lips bar hubby and children, thankfully no one has ever tried or I would probably die of shock.

Abi

I'm going to be open and honest about this. If in a single situation where someone mentioned to me up front that they had HIV, it would scare me. Not for the reason that you think though. I wouldn't be afraid of catching something, I'd be afraid of losing someone if I wasn't told. Early stages in a relationship are crucial and bear the foundations for any relationship.

If I was told further down the line that my partner found out he had HIV.. well, and this might be a bizarre point of view, but I don't want to be without him anyway. I don't see anyone making me as happy as he has, end of. I think it would kill me to do without him anyway.

Intensive Care Bear

Daisy M wrote: »

My friends are all huggers and kissers (thankfully on the cheek) it took me years to stop acting like a wooden stick when they threw their arms around me, eventually I learned to fake it and now I actually enjoy the odd squeeze but only with people I know very well, you would knock miles out of me:). However there is no way I kiss anyone on the lips bar hubby and children, thankfully no one has ever tried or I would probably die of shock.

I am friends with one couple who always greet me with a kiss on the lips, i did get a shock the first time time they done it (him especially) even when i try to dodge they always at least half get me. I didn't mind as much before i found out the were swingers and she uses glory holes.

Daisy M

1210m5g wrote: »

I am friends with one couple who always greet me with a kiss on the lips, i did get a shock the first time time they done it (him especially) even when i try to dodge they always at least half get me. I didn't mind as much before i found out the were swingers who use glory holes.

They probably have a little bet on who can get to you first. Personally I think if both people are happy with with a full on kiss on the lips go for it but if one person is uncomfortable then it is an invasion of privacy. But the thing is who makes the first move to start the kiss on lip thing and how do you know the person your planting a smacker on is comfortable?

You need to go and buy some face paints and make it look like your coming out in infectious sores and give them a big smacker!

MadsL

say_who_now? wrote: »

Im out at the minute having drinks with friends, so I'll try manage this on mobile. First off I NEVER told you what was or wasn't appropriate "in your own home". You added that yourself.

You said my behaviour was "socially inappropriate". That means in public, in a social setting and when I have guests in my own home. Don't try and backtrack.

Second- nice try, but I never suggested either that it was inappropriate for two men to kiss in public. I said YOUR'S, and your friend's greeting each other the way you do, was SOCIALLY inappropriate.

So two men can kiss in public, but according to you myself and my male friend cannot? Seriously, wtf?

Please don't. I think this thread has been derailed enough already with your unnecessary justifications for your behaviour. What you do with your friends and how you greet each other is your own business, works for you and all that. I COULD care less, but because I actually sought to understand your motivations, I've entertained you thus far.

No, you attacked me after I posted a personal story answering the question posed by the OP. I'm not sure why you find commenting on my behavior "socially acceptable" but I find you bang out of order.

I always consider the source before I reflect on anything, you too might do well to reflect on that before you get so heated in a discussion.

Why, do you normally take it well when complete strangers tell you what is "socially inappropriate" physical contact between two friends. Seriously where do you get off with that.

say_who_now?

MadsL wrote: »

say_who_now? wrote: »

Im out at the minute having drinks with friends, so I'll try manage this on mobile. First off I NEVER told you what was or wasn't appropriate "in your own home". You added that yourself.

You said my behaviour was "socially inappropriate". That means in public, in a social setting and when I have guests in my own home. Don't try and backtrack.

Second- nice try, but I never suggested either that it was inappropriate for two men to kiss in public. I said YOUR'S, and your friend's greeting each other the way you do, was SOCIALLY inappropriate.

So two men can kiss in public, but according to you myself and my male friend cannot? Seriously, wtf?

Please don't. I think this thread has been derailed enough already with your unnecessary justifications for your behaviour. What you do with your friends and how you greet each other is your own business, works for you and all that. I COULD care less, but because I actually sought to understand your motivations, I've entertained you thus far.

No, you attacked me after I posted a personal story answering the question posed by the OP. I'm not sure why you find commenting on my behavior "socially acceptable" but I find you bang out of order.

I always consider the source before I reflect on anything, you too might do well to reflect on that before you get so heated in a discussion.

Why, do you normally take it well when complete strangers tell you what is "socially inappropriate" physical contact between two friends. Seriously where do you get off with that.

Now you're just silly nit-picking and splitting hairs over vocabulary used. Time to move the thread on methinks.

kowloon

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I save the biggest hugs and kisses for those who are a bit awkward about it

That I would like to see.

I'm more of a sniff and lick person myself.

MadsL

Now you're just silly nit-picking and splitting hairs over vocabulary used. Time to move the thread on methinks.

Don't you mean "Let's gloss over the comments I made because I now realise how indefensible they are"?

I guess that is as close to an apology as you are going to get.

humbert

Whether or not greeting with a kiss on the lips is appropriate is not what the thread's about and since it's so completely subjective and purely a personal opinion I don't see how the argument can possibly reach a conclusion.

MadsL

humbert wrote: »

Whether or not greeting with a kiss on the lips is appropriate is not what the thread's about and since it's so completely subjective and purely a personal opinion I don't see how the argument can possibly reach a conclusion.

If you read back, you will see what I'm objecting to. I don't object to someone's opinion, I'm objecting to them telling me my behaviour is socially inappropriate.

Bizarrely, the poster has no problem two men kissing but for some strange reason objects to me doing it as somehow inappropriate and 'patronising' to my gay friend.

Showing love and affection to another human being regardless of sex (and without sexual intent) is somehow suspect in the view of the poster something my wife should 'fear'.

marshbaboon

I see everyone is trying to have a serious discussion. I don't like it...