March for Choice 29th September

Napper Hawkins

kraggy wrote: »

Are you telling me a 22 week old foetus is just a bit of sperm? That's 5 months of growth with most features developed.

And don't call me a jessy. Firstly, it shows your intelligence if you have to resort to name-calling. Secondly, it's against the rules. Post reported.

Lastly, you don't get to say when the discussion is over sunshine. It's a public forum.

1. No. I've also been fairly clear (in some of the many, many previous abortion threads) on what I reckon the cut off point should be and it's definitely earlier than 5 months. Still not my right nor yours to tell a woman what to do with her body.

2. That's hilarious that you would call my intelligence into question because I called you a name, then report it. Never happened in real life no? I can picture you running to teacher everytime someone said something mean to you. Anyway, I broke the rules, so fair enough.

3. Sunshine? That sounds like name calling!

rainbow kirby

PucaMama wrote: »

if you are married then i would think your are able to provide a stable enough environment to have a child? why should it be so difficult?

Ever heard of marital rape or reproductive coercion?

Napper Hawkins

PucaMama wrote: »

i agree he cant tell her what to do. but i dont agree with this "potential person" rubbish. it is a person, just still developing. noone without a very very good reason should be able to wake up and say "just doesnt suit me to be pregnant". its not just a fetus she doesnt want. its another life. is it that difficult to give it the life it deserves? have it and give it to a couple who appreciates it. :mad:

That is all the reason anyone needs. Sorry if you don't like it.

PucaMama

Sharrow wrote: »

So married people are never homeless, or addicts or alcoholics or have uterine cancer or pre clampsia or have other health issues which are not compatible to pregnancy?

Really so what your saying is if you get married all that magically disappears?

children in abusive families and as another poster pointed out in families with lots of debt have the option of foster care. (i have known people in this situation) pre eclampsia? my mother had that. and shes fine, 5 children later.

PucaMama

Napper Hawkins wrote: »

That is all the reason anyone needs. Sorry if you don't like it.

not in ireland. sorry if you dont like it.

PucaMama

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Ever heard of marital rape or reproductive coercion?

in marital rape, divorce. child can now be adopted.

Millicent

PucaMama wrote: »

in marital rape, divorce. child can now be adopted.

Ah, so it's all that easy. If only all those women impregnated against their will by a spouse over the years had known it was just that simple. Amazing.

Morag

PucaMama wrote: »

in marital rape, divorce. child can now be adopted.

Nope doesn't work that way even it they get divorced the child can't be adopted.

Millicent

PucaMama wrote: »

children in abusive families and as another poster pointed out in families with lots of debt have the option of foster care.

Your attitude is very strange. Rather than someone taking responsibility after falling pregnant and ending a pregnancy that will result in a child they can't take care of, you seem to be actively suggesting that people pass that responsibility to other people -- to the state, to faceless adopting parents. I don't understand the view that, in order to keep a family together, you would split up a whole existing family to foster care rather than terminate a potential new member.

PucaMama

Millicent wrote: »

Your attitude is very strange. Rather than someone taking responsibility after falling pregnant and ending a pregnancy that will result in a child they can't take care of, you seem to be actively suggesting that people pass that responsibility to other people -- to the state, to faceless adopting parents. I don't understand the view that, in order to keep a family together, you would split up a whole existing family to foster care rather than terminate a potential new member.

its not wrong to want to give a child to adoptive parents instead of terminateing it.

and if they had other children why could they not look after this one

haveing an abortion is avoiding responsibility, not takeing it.

Napper Hawkins

PucaMama wrote: »

not in ireland. sorry if you dont like it.

You're right, I don't. Neither, apparently, does Europe.

You know that whole human rights thing they're currently breathing down our governments necks with? Yeah.

Watch this space.

Millicent

PucaMama wrote: »

its not wrong to want to give a child to adoptive parents instead of terminateing it.

and if they had other children why could they not look after this one

haveing an abortion is avoiding responsibility, not takeing it.

Really? You can't contemplate the economic, emotional or practical differences in cost in having 2 children instead of 1?

How is it avoiding responsibility? Your posts smack of "you got yourself knocked up, you made your bed, now lie in it", tbh. I hope you're never in the difficult situation of having to make such a choice.

ETA: As to your first sentence, I never said it was wrong, just said your attitude was strange. I'm hardly very pro-choice if I'm judging women who have babies adopted, now am I? :rolleyes:

Napper Hawkins

PucaMama wrote: »

its not wrong to want to give a child to adoptive parents instead of terminateing it.

and if they had other children why could they not look after this one

haveing an abortion is avoiding responsibility, not takeing it.

To live in your black and white world eh?

The opposite is also true. People are different. You get that, yes?

suicide_circus

Will there be any not babies terminated during the actual march?

PucaMama

Millicent wrote: »

Really? You can't contemplate the economic, emotional or practical differences in cost in having 2 children instead of 1?

How is it avoiding responsibility? Your posts smack of "you got yourself knocked up, you made your bed, now lie in it", tbh. I hope you're never in the difficult situation of having to make such a choice.

ETA: As to your first sentence, I never said it was wrong, just said your attitude was strange. I'm hardly very pro-choice if I'm judging women who have babies adopted, now am I? :rolleyes:

well to me haveing a child isnt the end of the world. yes it might cost but so? money shouldnt mean more than a child. i no i might sound strange to some but its just how i see it.

Millicent

suicide_circus wrote: »

Will there be any not babies terminated during the actual march?

Wut?

Millicent

PucaMama wrote: »

well to me haveing a child isnt the end of the world. yes it might cost but so? money shouldnt mean more than a child. i no i might sound strange to some but its just how i see it.

And what of the women to whom it might be the end of the world? Who don't have good supports or financial means or may be in a dangerous relationship or have health issues?

Do we decide all life's issues based on what suits you? That's not how society works.

suicide_circus

Millicent wrote: »

Wut?

Well like during the pro cannabis marches people smoke spliffs as a sign of defiance against, as they see it, an injust law....just wondering if the equivalent can be expected at this march?

DuPLeX

Lapin wrote: »

Demonique wrote: »

There will be a March for Choice on September 29th at the Spire taking place at 2pm

Is anyone going?

I nominate this as the most uninformitave opening post of the year.

Shouldnt it be called a March for abortion?

PucaMama

Millicent wrote: »

And what of the women to whom it might be the end of the world? Who don't have good supports or financial means or may be in a dangerous relationship or have health issues?

Do we decide all life's issues based on what suits you? That's not how society works.

in ireland , mothers arent left without money. we see that every day.

the dangerous relationships and health issues have already been discussed.

Millicent

suicide_circus wrote: »

Well like during the pro cannabis marches people smoke spliffs as a sign of defiance against, as they see it, an injust law....just wondering if the equivalent can be expected at this march?

Yes.

Millicent

PucaMama wrote: »

in ireland , mothers arent left without money. we see that every day.

the dangerous relationships and health issues have already been discussed.

Not to a proper degree and to anyone but your satisfaction. Did you read that Irish Times article I linked for you?

PucaMama

Millicent wrote: »

Not to a proper degree and to anyone but your satisfaction. Did you read that Irish Times article I linked for you?

anything specific we havnt discussed?

Morag

PucaMama wrote: »

its not wrong to want to give a child to adoptive parents instead of terminateing it.

What if the woman doesn't want to be pregnant, to go through the whole pregnancy?

Millicent

PucaMama wrote: »

anything specific we havnt discussed?

Many, many things. What of women being beaten in relationships or who have been raped who don't want to carry a child for their abuser? What about victims of incest? What about someone who took all the precautions and was still caught out? What about those who can't afford to feed the mouths they already have (and please don't say foster care again like it's an ideal situation)? What about those with medical problems where the child might die or or where they might die? What about those that just plain don't want a child? Can you answer all those questions?

Morag

How about the fact the march is about the legislating for the High Court judgement in the X case?

This is not about a march for no limits abortion, it is about finally legislating for when there is a clear and substantive risk to the life of the woman if the pregnancy continues. It is about making sure that the government knows that there people who want this legislation put in place as soon as possible,
they have stalled for 20 years, enough is enough.

PucaMama

Millicent wrote: »

Many, many things. What of women being beaten in relationships or who have been raped who don't want to carry a child for their abuser? What about victims of incest? What about someone who took all the precautions and was still caught out? What about those who can't afford to feed the mouths they already have (and please don't say foster care again like it's an ideal situation)? What about those with medical problems where the child might die or or where they might die? What about those that just plain don't want a child? Can you answer all those questions?

for those that genuinely need it, its available in the uk a short flight away, or in hospital here as ive heard above about the ectopic pregnancy. for those that dont, use the other options. people do know that if you have sex you may get pregnant. if you dont ever want children go for sterilisation. if you dont and wont get that done, prepare to be a parent some day because it will happen eventually.

Millicent

PucaMama wrote: »

for those that genuinely need it, its available in the uk a short flight away, or in hospital here as ive heard above about the ectopic pregnancy. for those that dont, use the other options. people do know that if you have sex you may get pregnant. if you dont ever want children go for sterilisation. if you dont and wont get that done, prepare to be a parent some day because it will happen eventually.

Sterilisation has a fail rate for men and is almost unheard of here for women without children. Also, your answer is to export the issue, even for those women who are carrying stillborn children? There are other issues besides ectopic pregnancy. Have you heard of the "C case"?

Morag

PucaMama wrote: »

for those that genuinely need it, its available in the uk a short flight away,

So you think it is acceptable for a woman to be in a critical medical condition to have to travel to the UK and incur the cost of a life saving procedure here which the High Court said should be available here?

PucaMama wrote: »

if you dont ever want children go for sterilisation.

Do you know the guidelines for tubal ligation in this country?

HemlockOption

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Are you trolling or what?

A lot of men would love to have say over there childs life.

guys, the point is you can not be forced to be involved. the responsibility is forced 100% on to the body (and life) of the woman.

Morag

https://www.facebook.com/shareyour.abortionstory

Another pro choice action aimed at debunking abortion myths.

shareyourabortionstory@gmail.com started out as a knee jerk reaction to the infamous "abortion tears her life apart" poster campaign that youth defence ran recently. The aim of this project is to normalise and destigmatise abortion within Irish culture. With a registered 4000 women travelling to the UK every year there are a lot of stories out there waiting to be shared.

They have printed stories and are looking for people to help distribute them and stories will be also published online. If you want to get involved or share your story contact shareyourabortionstory@gmail.com .

Nodin

PucaMama wrote: »

for those that genuinely need it, its available in the uk a short flight away, .....

I'm sorry, but you seem to be confused. It's been ruled by the supreme court that in certain circumstances, a woman is legally entitled to have an abortion carried out in this country. What we're waiting for is the legislation to frame that ruling.

PucaMama

Millicent wrote: »

Sterilisation has a fail rate for men and is almost unheard of here for women without children. Also, your answer is to export the issue, even for those women who are carrying stillborn children? There are other issues besides ectopic pregnancy. Have you heard of the "C case"?

i only gave ectopic pregnancy as an example. is the fail rate high enough that its not an option?

PucaMama

Nodin wrote: »

I'm sorry, but you seem to be confused. It's been ruled by the supreme court that in certain circumstances, a woman is legally entitled to have an abortion carried out in this country. What we're waiting for is the legislation to frame that ruling.

i have already asked about that. so what else needs to be changed about the law? get the legislation fixed and leave it at that. we dont need abortion "on demand".

Millicent

PucaMama wrote: »

i only gave ectopic pregnancy as an example. is the fail rate high enough that its not an option?

I linked you to the exact figures in the other thread on the matter so I'm not sure why you're asking me that?

Micky Dolenz

HemlockOption wrote: »

guys, the point is you can not be forced to be involved. the responsibility is forced 100% on to the body (and life) of the woman.

Yes, I am aware of that.

My post was in direct response to the post below. Many partners would discuss abortion no doubt so the below comment isn't true.

ruthloss wrote: »

I am always amazed at the amount of men who are against Abortion.

Let's face it, they will never have to make that agonizing dicision.

Morag

PucaMama wrote: »

i have already asked about that. so what else needs to be changed about the law? get the legislation fixed and leave it at that. we dont need abortion "on demand".

That is what legislating for the X case ruling is for.

Once the legislation is in place only then can medical policies and practices be put in place and then medical codes of conduct and insurance and then medical professionals have to be trained in the procedures for when under irish law and the High Court ruling women won't have to travel when there is a critical risk to their life.

Abdul Abulbul Amir

Lapin wrote: »

Yes, why not? It would make you post a lot easier to read and its not a difficult thing to do.

I usually ignore bulky posts because if the poster can't be arsed tidying them up, I can't be arsed picking my way through them.

And you're actually serious too. You must find books quite the challenge then, hardly any pictures either.

PucaMama

Sharrow wrote: »

That is what legislating for the X case ruling is for.

Once the legislation is in place only then can medical policies and practices be put in place and then medical codes of conduct and insurance and then medical professionals have to be trained in the procedures for when under irish law and the High Court ruling women won't have to travel when there is a critical risk to their life.

very few people dont want the legislation in. id welcome it. but id leave it at that.

Nodin

PucaMama wrote: »

i have already asked about that. so what else needs to be changed about the law? get the legislation fixed and leave it at that. we dont need abortion "on demand".

people aren't allowed campaign now?

Morag

PucaMama wrote: »

very few people dont want the legislation in. id welcome it. but id leave it at that.

So will you be at the March then?
As it is to get the government to put in place that legislation?

Morag

http://choiceireland.org/ Choice Ireland will be having a stall and handing out information leaflets in Dublin City Centre this Satturday 8th Sept, if you want to go and take part contact them choiceireland@gmail.com

If you can't make the fundraiser and want to donate you can always donate to Choice Ireland

Donate!
Choice Ireland are a non-funded voluntary activist organisation. All we have, we raise through donations. Now you can donate on-line!

You will find the PayPal button on their website: http://choiceireland.org

PucaMama

Sharrow wrote: »

So will you be at the March then?
As it is to get the government to put in place that legislation?

no because of the other issues with abortion i dont think i could get myself to do it. but i wouldnt oppose it if its just for the legislation. its just not for me.

Morag

The fundraiser for the March is on this evening, The Sugar Club, 8pm tickets 10 euro.

Actor

Sharrow wrote: »

The fundraiser for the March is on this evening, The Sugar Club, 8pm tickets 10 euro.

That's one sure way of spending an extra couple of years in purgatory.

efb

Actor wrote: »

That's one sure way of spending an extra couple of years in purgatory.

lol

Actor

efb wrote: »

lol

You seem so arrogant in your beliefs that Final Judgement does not exist.

efb

Actor wrote: »

You seem so arrogant in your beliefs that Final Judgement does not exist.

who brought in purgatory???

Its a bit like limbo- thats gone now isn't it!

bodice ripper

Actor wrote: »

You seem so arrogant in your beliefs that Final Judgement does not exist.

it doesn't.

krudler

Actor wrote: »

That's one sure way of spending an extra couple of years in purgatory.

because god hates comedians?