Kazakhstan v Ireland match thread - 7/9/12 - 17:00

IRISHSPORTSGUY

Live on RTE2, nothing about it scheduled on Sky just yet.





Probable line-up:

Westwood
McShane - O'Shea - O'Dea - Ward
McCarthy - Whelan
McGeady

---

McClean
Keane - Doyle

Paul Tergat

No Borat reference is a bit of a let down

Paully D

2-0 to Ireland.

applehunter

Nil with that defensive line:eek:

The_Kew_Tour

Feeling we will make harder work of this then we should.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

applehunter wrote: »

Nil with that defensive line:eek:

Shame Ciaran Clark and Alex Pearce weren't called up, not really surprised though.

Strawberry Fields

If Keane starts in front of Long who's doing the biz in the premiership I won't be impressed. More Trap clap.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

godeas16 wrote: »

If Keane starts in front of Long who's doing the biz in the premiership I won't be impressed. More Trap clap.

I'd be more annoyed if Kevin Doyle starts tbh, at least Keane possesses a goal threat.

LuckyLloyd

godeas16 wrote: »

If Keane starts in front of Long who's doing the biz in the premiership I won't be impressed. More Trap clap.

If Keane doesn't start given he's been our top scorer two campaigns in a row I won't be impressed, irrespective of who is doing what in whatever league.

gnfnrhead

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If Keane doesn't start given he's been our top scorer two campaigns in a row I won't be impressed, irrespective of who is doing what in whatever league.

So you'd be fine with Keane starting even if he hadnt played a single club game while Long, Walters, Doyle and Cox were all banging them in?

Thats not the case but its what you seem to be suggesting.

LuckyLloyd

gnfnrhead wrote: »

So you'd be fine with Keane starting even if he hadnt played a single club game while Long, Walters, Doyle and Cox were all banging them in?

Thats not the case but its what you seem to be suggesting.

Keane starts for Ireland until he stops doing it for Ireland, simples.

Strawberry Fields

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If Keane doesn't start given he's been our top scorer two campaigns in a row I won't be impressed, irrespective of who is doing what in whatever league.

And given he scored none in the Euros themselves and will be 34 in Rio I'd like to see someone else given a chance who's playing at the top level.

kitakyushu

Could be an interesting atmosphere at the ground anyway. Kazakhstan have a 30,000 seater stadium with a retractable roof. They generally draw crowds in the teens or less. I doubt it'll be anywhere near a full house for the visit of Ireland anyway. Half empty stadium with a closed roof might be a different kinda of place for Ireland to have to play in.

applehunter

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Keane starts for Ireland until he stops doing it for Ireland, simples.

Doing what?

Doing "not scoring"?

Doing "passenger"?

Doing "hands in the air"?

Doing "being pushed off the ball"

Doing "complaining to referee"?

applehunter

sugarman wrote: »

You're talking utter bollox. 14 goals over the last 2 sets of qualifiers. Top scorer each time.

Argue all you want. The stats dont lie.

Even the argument of 'its never against big teams'... who gives a toss, nobody else would have scored the goals he did anyway.

I'll trust my eyes on this one.

LuckyLloyd

applehunter wrote: »

I'll trust my eyes on this one.

Keane is the best striker we have until somebody else proves otherwise. When he's been on the pitch, someone else has been alongside him the whole time. They haven't been scoring at anywhere near the rate he does for us. So he's the best. So he starts. Suck it up, your eyes will get to judge him a green jersey for a while yet, and rightly so.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

I think Kazakhstan should be easy enough, although they did have a very tough Euro 2012 group and they ran Turkey close in one game. Anything other than 3 points should be very disappointing though.

The_Kew_Tour

If they fail to get 3 points I want Mick back in charge.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

If they fail to get 3 points I want Mick back in charge.

I think most people would take back Mick right now if they had the choice!

ronsgonawin

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

applehunter wrote: »

I'll trust my eyes on this one.

Keane is the best striker we have until somebody else proves otherwise. When he's been on the pitch, someone else has been alongside him the whole time. They haven't been scoring at anywhere near the rate he does for us. So he's the best. So he starts. Suck it up, your eyes will get to judge him a green jersey for a while yet, and rightly so.

Still posting your same bollix. Between you and noodler and your trap love in, it's both infuriating and sickening at the same time.

It's about time time you guys started to watch a few games. Maybe you might start now when Alot of the country are now sick to the teeth of this guy. I for one won't pay for another game while he is in charge.

LuckyLloyd

ronsgonawin wrote: »

Still posting your same bollix. Between you and noodler and your trap love in, it's both infuriating and sickening at the same time.

It's about time time you guys started to watch a few games. Maybe you might start now when Alot of the country are now sick to the teeth of this guy. I for one won't pay for another game while he is in charge.

I have gone to and watched every game under every manager. It is for precisely that reason I appreciate Trapp's reign. **** what the style is, qualifying feels so sweet.

Mocha Joe

I haven't got the energy to get fully involved in this Keane debate even though Keane haterz annoy me. Sugarman is right anyway.

ronsgonawin

sugarman wrote: »

ronsgonawin wrote: »

Still posting your same bollix. Between you and noodler and your trap love in, it's both infuriating and sickening at the same time.

It's about time time you guys started to watch a few games. Maybe you might start now when Alot of the country are now sick to the teeth of this guy. I for one won't pay for another game while he is in charge.

[SIZE="4"]My love of Trap? Eh?[/SIZE];)

Why are you quoting me?

ronsgonawin

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

ronsgonawin wrote: »

Still posting your same bollix. Between you and noodler and your trap love in, it's both infuriating and sickening at the same time.

It's about time time you guys started to watch a few games. Maybe you might start now when Alot of the country are now sick to the teeth of this guy. I for one won't pay for another game while he is in charge.

I have gone to and watched every game under every manager. It is for precisely that reason I appreciate Trapp's reign. **** what the style is, qualifying feels so sweet.

Every game? Every manager? Now we know you are full of it?

G.K.

I think Shane Long is capable of being Ireland's most regular goalscorer once Keane goes, and indeed he's been scoring well at club level for a number of seasons now. I'm not for a second suggesting here that he'd match Keane's scoring record, but by the same token, Keane cannot be relied upon forever. He will be 34 at the WC, if Ireland get there, and at the Euros (The tournament itself) he offered nothing.

It's all very well and good saying Keane is the best striker Ireland has "until somebody else proves otherwise," but when will they get a chance to prove it? Keane and Doyle seem to be Trap's clear choice pairing (Though I want to see what he does this weekend) irrespective of form, so the best chance Long (Or Walters or Cox or whoever) gets to prove it is coming on as a sub or the odd game when one isn't available.

Keane may be the best finisher, but he isn't the future. He's 32. You have to look past the short term and think what will be best for Ireland. Playing a 32 year old with little international future, in a qualifying campaign where Ireland will be doing miraculously to get to the playoffs, let alone to Brazil makes little sense. If Ireland had a great chance to qualify then it would. But they don't. So to me, the next best finisher, Long, who is the guy who will (or should) be taking over from Keane when he eventually does retire, should at the least be given a decent run in the team so he can have a chance to 'prove himself'.

Really, he should be taking over completely by the end of the campaign.

Strawberry Fields

G.K. wrote: »

I think Shane Long is capable of being Ireland's most regular goalscorer once Keane goes, and indeed he's been scoring well at club level for a number of seasons now. I'm not for a second suggesting here that he'd match Keane's scoring record, but by the same token, Keane cannot be relied upon forever. He will be 34 at the WC, if Ireland get there, and at the Euros (The tournament itself) he offered nothing.

It's all very well and good saying Keane is the best striker Ireland has "until somebody else proves otherwise," but when will they get a chance to prove it? Keane and Doyle seem to be Trap's clear choice pairing (Though I want to see what he does this weekend) irrespective of form, so the best chance Long (Or Walters or Cox or whoever) gets to prove it is coming on as a sub or the odd game when one isn't available.

Keane may be the best finisher, but he isn't the future. He's 32. You have to look past the short term and think what will be best for Ireland. Playing a 32 year old with little international future, in a qualifying campaign where Ireland will be doing miraculously to get to the playoffs, let alone to Brazil makes little sense. If Ireland had a great chance to qualify then it would. But they don't. So to me, the next best finisher, Long, who is the guy who will (or should) be taking over from Keane when he eventually does retire, should at the least be given a decent run in the team so he can have a chance to 'prove himself'.

Really, he should be taking over completely by the end of the campaign.

Agree completely with this post, better way of saying what I posted earlier.

Sanity_Saviour

G.K. wrote: »

I think Shane Long is capable of being Ireland's most regular goalscorer once Keane goes, and indeed he's been scoring well at club level for a number of seasons now. I'm not for a second suggesting here that he'd match Keane's scoring record, but by the same token, Keane cannot be relied upon forever. He will be 34 at the WC, if Ireland get there, and at the Euros (The tournament itself) he offered nothing.

It's all very well and good saying Keane is the best striker Ireland has "until somebody else proves otherwise," but when will they get a chance to prove it? Keane and Doyle seem to be Trap's clear choice pairing (Though I want to see what he does this weekend) irrespective of form, so the best chance Long (Or Walters or Cox or whoever) gets to prove it is coming on as a sub or the odd game when one isn't available.

Keane may be the best finisher, but he isn't the future. He's 32. You have to look past the short term and think what will be best for Ireland. Playing a 32 year old with little international future, in a qualifying campaign where Ireland will be doing miraculously to get to the playoffs, let alone to Brazil makes little sense. If Ireland had a great chance to qualify then it would. But they don't. So to me, the next best finisher, Long, who is the guy who will (or should) be taking over from Keane when he eventually does retire, should at the least be given a decent run in the team so he can have a chance to 'prove himself'.

Really, he should be taking over completely by the end of the campaign.

He's our captain. He is also consistently our top scorer in qualifying, as well as a huge influence on the pitch. For us to get rid of him now would be unnecessarily detrimental.

Long should be a solid bench option, coming on for increasingly longer times, until Keane so believes his time has ended. For all he has done(and continues to do) he should at least get this much.

G.K.

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

He's our captain. He is also consistently our top scorer in qualifying, as well as a huge influence on the pitch. For us to get rid of him now would be unnecessarily detrimental.

Long should be a solid bench option, coming on for increasingly longer times, until Keane so believes his time has ended. For all he has done(and continues to do) he should at least get this much.

That's fair. I think we had a conversation during the Euros where I would have cut Keane loose there and then. Now I think he should get plenty of starts and gametime, but Long should be a regular sub, starter in Keane's absence and by the end of the campaign next year he should be 1st choice.

ronsgonawin

G.K. wrote: »

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

He's our captain. He is also consistently our top scorer in qualifying, as well as a huge influence on the pitch. For us to get rid of him now would be unnecessarily detrimental.

Long should be a solid bench option, coming on for increasingly longer times, until Keane so believes his time has ended. For all he has done(and continues to do) he should at least get this much.

That's fair. I think we had a conversation during the Euros where I would have cut Keane loose there and then. Now I think he should get plenty of starts and gametime, but Long should be a regular sub, starter in Keane's absence and by the end of the campaign next year he should be 1st choice.

Don't know lads, I reckon Keane could be a great option from the bench, long chasing everything down running defenders everywhere and Keane on when they are wrecked. Could be an argument for the other way but just think long has more running in him and for a longer time.

I do think a 3 man midfield though would be a solid option for Ireland.

Mushy

So yeah lads, a new WC qualifying campaign is upon us. Don't think we'll qualify, but lets hope for a good start.

Rhys Essien

Looking forward to their Anthem being played.;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pv5jLsLoYcE

Sanity_Saviour

G.K. wrote: »

That's fair. I think we had a conversation during the Euros where I would have cut Keane loose there and then. Now I think he should get plenty of starts and gametime, but Long should be a regular sub, starter in Keane's absence and by the end of the campaign next year he should be 1st choice.

Yeah that does make sense, just his presence and experience on the pitch will often be enough to push those around him. I would have no problem getting rid of Doyle to give Long a chance though.

ronsgonawin wrote: »

Don't know lads, I reckon Keane could be a great option from the bench, long chasing everything down running defenders everywhere and Keane on when they are wrecked. Could be an argument for the other way but just think long has more running in him and for a longer time.

I do think a 3 man midfield though would be a solid option for Ireland.

I would argue that Long's pace would be more effective in the last 15, with Keane adopting a deeper position when he is playing to create space, hopefully with Walters. Also, I think Keane-Long would be totally ineffective.

I do agree with a 3 man midfield though, McCarthy, Gibson and Andrews as a workhorse could work wonders, with the direction intentions of releasing our wingers.

LuckyLloyd

ronsgonawin wrote: »

Every game? Every manager? Now we know you are full of it?

I should have said gone to OR watched every game. I have attended home matches the past two campaigns, and am on the edge of my couch for the games I can't attend for whatever reason. I just want to win, the rest is irrelevant.

LuckyLloyd

G.K. wrote: »

I think Shane Long is capable of being Ireland's most regular goalscorer once Keane goes, and indeed he's been scoring well at club level for a number of seasons now. I'm not for a second suggesting here that he'd match Keane's scoring record, but by the same token, Keane cannot be relied upon forever. He will be 34 at the WC, if Ireland get there, and at the Euros (The tournament itself) he offered nothing.

It's all very well and good saying Keane is the best striker Ireland has "until somebody else proves otherwise," but when will they get a chance to prove it? Keane and Doyle seem to be Trap's clear choice pairing (Though I want to see what he does this weekend) irrespective of form, so the best chance Long (Or Walters or Cox or whoever) gets to prove it is coming on as a sub or the odd game when one isn't available.

Keane may be the best finisher, but he isn't the future. He's 32. You have to look past the short term and think what will be best for Ireland. Playing a 32 year old with little international future, in a qualifying campaign where Ireland will be doing miraculously to get to the playoffs, let alone to Brazil makes little sense. If Ireland had a great chance to qualify then it would. But they don't. So to me, the next best finisher, Long, who is the guy who will (or should) be taking over from Keane when he eventually does retire, should at the least be given a decent run in the team so he can have a chance to 'prove himself'.

Really, he should be taking over completely by the end of the campaign.

If a player can make the finals proper you can start him. Keane will definitely be playing professional ball in 2014, no question.

Long can play alongside Keane. Long can be put on for Keane for the last 20 minutes / half hour of a game. At the outset of an International campaign the focus must be on our best chance to win the next game. I see no evidence that our best chance does not involve Robbie Keane up front wearing the captain's armband. If our campaign is over in March by all means think about going into development mode.

We are not Wales or any fourth seed or below. We absolutely can get a playoff spot from this group and we should pick our strongest 11 NOW not an 11 with a view to two year's later.

kitakyushu

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Looking forward to their Anthem being played.;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pv5jLsLoYcE

I think I'm gonna just sit this campaign out and rewatch some Borat episodes instead.

noodler

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Keane starts for Ireland until he stops doing it for Ireland, simples.

Well put.

If Doyle was doing okay in the EPL (he has scored one for Wolves this season in the Championship) then I'd say try Long and Doyle but for me Walters and Long may be the best bet.

The pecking order is two from Keane, Long, Walters

With Doyle behind imo. Then again, Doyle has often shown his desire to run himself into the ground for his country if we are under pressure so I can't say I am too worried about Trap's selection in this area.

godeas16 wrote: »

And given he scored none in the Euros themselves

Silly argument.

How about we demand a striker who can score regularly in the CL?

applehunter wrote: »

Doing what?

Doing "not scoring"?

Doing "passenger"?

Doing "hands in the air"?

Doing "being pushed off the ball"

Doing "complaining to referee"?

Sugarman destroyed this conclusively so no need to reply.

applehunter

If he's willing to sit on the bench then I think he is still a good player to have in the squad.

NinjaK

if we cant beat this lot then we dont deserve to go to the WC

noodler

NinjaK wrote: »

if we cant beat this lot then we dont deserve to go to the WC

This old line!

At least twice per qualification campaign!

Rekop dog

They stuck 5 past Kyrgyzstan in a recent friendly(not sure if two teams ever met that amounted such a big scrabble score), but in all honesty most semi decent sides have come away with a win from there. I expect 3 points but an uncomfortable night.

Francie Barrett

I see that Trap has managed to alienate Darron Gibson. At the rate we're going, we will have to recall Paul Green.

Strawberry Fields

noodler wrote: »

Well put.

Silly argument.

How about we demand a striker who can score regularly in the CL?

No because we don't have a player playing in the CL. How about instead of being embarassed at a tournament when playing for Ireland he scores goals when it's really needed. How will he fare against decent opposition a la Sweden and Germany who were both at the Euros. 7 goals in the last qualifiers against Macedonia, Estonia, Andorra is not prolific, I could have scored against them, blanks against Slovakia twice say Long should be in. He's fine from the bench but he's not up to the level anymore. That's not to take away from the amazimg record he has over his career but it's time to move on.

gustavo

godeas16 wrote: »

No because we don't have a player playing in the CL. How about instead of being embarassed at a tournament when playing for Ireland he scores goals when it's really needed. How will he fare against decent opposition a la Sweden and Germany who were both at the Euros. 5 goals in the last qualifiers against Macedonia, Estonia, Andorra is not prolific, I could have scored against them, blanks against Slovakia twice say Long should be in. He's fine from the bench but he's not up to the level anymore. That's not to take away from the amazimg record he has over his career but it's time to move on.

So because he didn't score in the Euros he's not up to it?

I'd love to know who you'd play up front so because Walters Long Cox and Doyle didn't score there either so I presume they're not up to it either.

G.K.

Francie Barrett wrote: »

I see that Trap has managed to alienate Darron Gibson. At the rate we're going, we will have to recall Paul Green.

Green's got a long term injury. I expect that he'd have been in the squad if he didn't.

Strawberry Fields

gustavo wrote: »

So because he didn't score in the Euros he's not up to it?

I'd love to know who you'd play up front so because Walters Long Cox and Doyle didn't score there either so I presume they're not up to it either.

I'd play Long he only got 15 minutes against Croatia and no time against Spain, I wouldn't be bringing Cox on.

noodler

godeas16 wrote: »

No because we don't have a player playing in the CL. How about instead of being embarassed at a tournament when playing for Ireland he scores goals when it's really needed. How will he fare against decent opposition a la Sweden and Germany who were both at the Euros. 7 goals in the last qualifiers against Macedonia, Estonia, Andorra is not prolific, I could have scored against them, blanks against Slovakia twice say Long should be in. He's fine from the bench but he's not up to the level anymore. That's not to take away from the amazimg record he has over his career but it's time to move on.

.....

II
II
II
V

gustavo wrote: »

So because he didn't score in the Euros he's not up to it?

I'd love to know who you'd play up front so because Walters Long Cox and Doyle didn't score there either so I presume they're not up to it either.

devotional1993

godeas16 wrote: »

No because we don't have a player playing in the CL. How about instead of being embarassed at a tournament when playing for Ireland he scores goals when it's really needed. How will he fare against decent opposition a la Sweden and Germany who were both at the Euros. 7 goals in the last qualifiers against Macedonia, Estonia, Andorra is not prolific, I could have scored against them, blanks against Slovakia twice say Long should be in. He's fine from the bench but he's not up to the level anymore. That's not to take away from the amazimg record he has over his career but it's time to move on.

Nice position to have a forward score 7 times for ya in the last campaign and think of him as a failure. Im sure he would score against better opposition if we could actually get the ball to him.None of our strikers got a sniff of it in the euros after all.

yabadabado

I would fully expect Keane to start but I would prefer to have one upfront(Long or Walters) and play 4-5-1.

Father Damo

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Keane starts for Ireland until he stops doing it for Ireland, simples.

It is pretty rare for a serving captain not to start tbh. Keane had some pretty awful form a few years back for quite some time but retained his starts/ captaincy (actually it was when he was the height of his club career. His decline of club form bizarrely coincided with a resurgance in NT form!)

RATM

2-1 to Kazakstan- Irish team is totally demoralised after Euro 2012 and it will show on Friday.

madma

no confidence for friday and mainly cause of trapp

if he doesnt start long and mcclean he really is losing his marbles

they are both are best players at the moment and scoring goals at the top level in england

well at least green is injured, no offence to him but least he wont be playing