Kazakhstan v Ireland match thread - 7/9/12 - 17:00

Banjaxed82

http://www.teamtalk.com/republic-of-ireland/8060571/McClean-fumes-at-bench-role

Yeah, looks like McClean is f*cked. Surprised if Trap calls him up again, which is handy for Trap.

With all these pesky wingers out of the way, hopefully Trap can unearth another promising attacker and stick him out wide.

andyman

Lads there's a serious lack of Sean Murray being mentioned here. Hendrick and McCann are very good players with room to improve, but Murray looks like he could become a fantastic player.

d22ontour

godeas16 wrote: »

Now mccleans in hot water tweet

"Delighted as a fan we got the the win.. Personal level #fuming #f****njoke #embarrassing."

Opinions??

Can you blame him?

He may be kicked out of the squad for Oman.

Delighted as a fan, nothing wrong with that.
Fuming, he didnt get his game.
Fookin joke, the performance,tactics were.
Embarrassing, it was.

We were pathetic and he didn't get his game.

Considering how social media has allowed us to interact with people we would never had much access to before, it's funny how people pick up and complain about someone telling us how he felt instead of some pr bullcrap released from a pa and having a problem with it.
He should say nothing and tow the rope ? Why do we read peoples opinions on things ? To see what they have to say, and it's better to read what they really think instead of something concocted to appease.

yabadabado

andyman wrote: »

Lads there's a serious lack of Sean Murray being mentioned here. Hendrick and McCann are very good players with room to improve, but Murray looks like he could become a fantastic player.

Yeah the few times I have seen Murray he has impressed .He has a good platform at Watford and hopefully he can push on .He probably is a few years away yet still only 18.He could be one of the stars of the future along with Grealish but at the very least both are 3/4 years away unless they make huge strides at their clubs.

devotional1993

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

http://www.teamtalk.com/republic-of-ireland/8060571/McClean-fumes-at-bench-role

Yeah, looks like McClean is f*cked. Surprised if Trap calls him up again, which is handy for Trap.

With all these pesky wingers out of the way, hopefully Trap can unearth another promising attacker and stick him out wide.

very true-Cox has been pretty good playing as a CF all the same

G.K.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

With the greatest of respect though mate, as much as Speed's work was lauded (and ye did have some great performances under him) you were nowhere near qualifying. There was no pressure under Speed, and it would have been harder to translate that level into tonight's game when there is hope and expectation on the table as opposed to an 'anything is a bonus' context.

I agree that we were nowhere near qualifying even at that stage. the thrust of my point was more toward how 'developmental stages' take a lot of time, and that we were seeing some improvemnt with the first batch of players and an excellent manager. If we could keep improving with each generation then we'd be up there eventually.

Really our 'development stage' has to be dacades when one considers where we have come from. And it'll be even longer now wehave a manager who thinks James Collins is worth starting in games against technically capable teams like Belgium.

Roger Sterling

clsmooth wrote: »

Roger Sterling wrote: »

I enjoyed qualifying alright.

Good man. Did you enjoy the tournament? Did you enjoy the results we achieved there? Did you enjoy the football we played? Lets all admit we were steeped to qualify. Lets hope we can get a 10 man Estonia in a playoff again :rolleyes:

Yeh it was luck of the draw we qualified. I guess by that token I could claim it was bad luck to get the two best teams in our finals group.

Qualifying should be the uppermost of our ambitions. Trap delivered that. And yes it was a hell of a lot more dnjoyable than finishing third or fourth while or losing play offs like we usually do.

applehunter

We were so ****ing bad I don't know where to start.

Fair play to Richie Sadlier for saying what I'm sure the vast majority where thinking after the game. Why Giles didn't back him I don't know.

This Trap fella needs to go.

€2 ****ing million or whatever he is getting and he sends out that squad to play that ****e.

Long ball is fine but FFS not every ball has to be that way.

Cox on the wing. Long on the wing.:o

McClean not brought on. Coleman not brought on.

Doyle was brilliant but come on, this is a shambles.

SirDelboy18

---

Westwood

---

O'Brien--Clark--Pearce--Wilson
----Gibson--McCarthy---
Coleman--Pilkington--McClean

---

Long

---

Reid, Henderson and Hoolahan are all strong alternatives.

That team, featuring two of tonights starters, would easily tear our current starting team to shreds. None of these players feature regularly if ever under Trap
That's not taking into account the likes of Kelly, McGeady, Andrews, Walters who would also add to the strength of the squad.

sReq | uTeK

Zico wrote: »

the realpigiron wrote: »

Nonsense, Sadlier was the only one on the panel there tonight that remotely told it like it was. He should be promoted to the senior panel for all big Ireland games. Liam Brady is compromised when it comes to Trap, he shouldn't be there at all.

I agreed with a lot of what he said, so did everyone watching the game. The guy next to me in the pub could put forward an equally compelling case for sacking Trap but I'd rather hear from someone with a qualified opinion. Sadlier's opinion has no more weight to it than the bloke in the pub to me.

Brady might be talking ****e but when it comes to what goes on in football at the highest level all he has to say to Sadlier is "How would you know?"

Brady by the same could turn around to Jose mouriniho or louis van Hal and say what do you know........hey while he's at it he should turn around to his employer and say hey what do you know.

Love idiots and I don't use the term lightly who think you have to have played football at the highest level to have a basic ****ing understanding of how the game works.

LuckyLloyd

G.K. wrote: »

I agree that we were nowhere near qualifying even at that stage. the thrust of my point was more toward how 'developmental stages' take a lot of time, and that we were seeing some improvemnt with the first batch of players and an excellent manager. If we could keep improving with each generation then we'd be up there eventually.

Really our 'development stage' has to be dacades when one considers where we have come from. And it'll be even longer now wehave a manager who thinks James Collins is worth starting in games against technically capable teams like Belgium.

That's fine, but talk of doing that with Ireland seems ignorant of the fact that we've finished in the top two of our previous two qualification attempts and have considered not finishing in the top two a disaster for moving on 30 years now.

When people talk the 'I'd rather we played younger technical players and went developmental' they're not appreciating where we are right now. We ARE competitive, and it could be argued that we are at or very close to our ceiling of achievement.

yabadabado

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

---

Westwood

---

O'Brien--Clark--Pearce--Wilson
----Gibson--McCarthy---
Coleman--Pilkington--McClean

---

Long

---

Reid, Henderson and Hoolahan are all strong alternatives.

That team, featuring one of tonights starters, would easily tear our current starting team to shreds.

2 of tonights starters.
Whats the story with Pearce,has he been approached to play or is it just that he has said he is willing to join up.

SirDelboy18

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

And it could be argued that we are at or very close to our ceiling of achievement.

By who exactly? I've just posted a first 11 that would almost certainly destroy our current first 11, made up almost entirely of players under 25.

adamski8

[-0-] wrote: »

I was a big Trappatoni fan and even after the shambles at the Euros I did try to say that we should give him the benefit of the doubt - the doubt being that two from the group got to the final.

However, today was worse than Cyprus beating us 5-2. Granted, we robbed Kazakhstan in the last 5 - 7 minutes of the game, but our performance was absolutely dire. This is a big thread at this stage but I've been following it all day, and someone did mention Einstein's quote about insanity and they are dead right.

Why leave a winger on the bench and try to play three players out of position?

Why play the Jack Charlton tactic against a team ranked 120-something.

Is the bar so low now that all we can do is hoof it against Kazakhstan? I would expect us to do that against the likes of Spain, Brazil, Germany, Argentina....but not ****ing Kazakhstan.

Trapp has no plan, absolutely no plan. The lads were asked what he said at half time and they said he told them to push up more. In other words, he didn't ask them to try and play football, he wanted more of them up front so we could continue to hoof it.

I honestly believe after this that he is completely senile and he needs to go.

If the FAI won't pay him off I think we should. Someone else mentioned this as well. I would gladly give a grand to see the back of him.

If you defend Trappatoni after this you are as delusional as he is.

agree with the above but i do hate this if so and so was in the team it would change everything, mccarthy was there today and he was useless too, not sure what others would have done but defo the team playing like taht is going nowhere fast!

SirDelboy18

yabadabado wrote: »

2 of tonights starters.
Whats the story with Pearce,has he been approached to play or is it just that he has said he is willing to join up.

Sorry, wasn't paying attention to the GK there for a second.

Pearce, I genuinely believe Trap doesn't know he exists. 23 years of age, Player of the Season for the Championship winners last year, extremely reliable and solid.

yabadabado

adamski8 wrote: »

agree with the above but i do hate this if so and so was in the team it would change everything, mccarthy was there today and he was useless too, not sure what others would have done but defo the team playing like taht is going nowhere fast!

McCarthy was better than most out there tonight but the tactics didnt suit him.He was constantly coming looking for the ball only for it to be hoofed from the back and totally taking the midfield out of the equation.

LuckyLloyd

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

By who exactly? I've just posted a first 11 that would almost certainly destroy our current first 11, made up almost entirely of players under 25.

lol, keep on keeping on

alang184

d22ontour wrote: »

Considering how social media has allowed us to interact with people we would never had much access to before, it's funny how people pick up and complain about someone telling us how he felt instead of some pr bullcrap released from a pa and having a problem with it.

Yeah, I don't see the big deal about McClean's comments. It's all about the context. It's not like there's been no trouble in the Irish camp in the last 4 years.

Trappatoni has seriously messed around with many players, especially in the last year of so. The rumours of a row or two in the Euro's (probably Long or Gibson) were a worrying sign. Against Spain in the summer, 20 minutes to go, he brings on Paul Green, leaving Gibson on the bench. What's the point? The point for Trappatoni is, this is him marking is authority. People expect him to put on Gibson instead of Green. Gibson expects him to put on Gibson instead of green. It's like he does this to show that he won't be pushed around by anybody, even at the expense of poor Irish performances and results.

The issue with McClean is simple. He has probably shown too much of his willingness to play. And the public & media have made such a big deal of him that, Trappatoni responds by doing the opposite - like making a statement to the players and the public that "I will not be pushed into choosing certain players", while any normal manager would say "Fair enough, McClean clearly must be in our starting line-up".

Look at the contrary - take Walters and Cox as an example. They turned up to the Irish team with no great hope of playing much, kept to themselves, worked hard, probably not a bad word out of their mouth about any lack of game time. And it seems like he rewards them for that with regular starting places.

Roger Sterling

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

And it could be argued that we are at or very close to our ceiling of achievement.

By who exactly? I've just posted a first 11 that would almost certainly destroy our current first 11, made up almost entirely of players under 25.

They wouldnt destroy anyone lets be fair.

SirDelboy18

Roger Sterling wrote: »

They wouldnt destroy anyone lets be fair.

You've seen a lot of those 11 so I take it?

applehunter

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

lol, keep on keeping on

Give me Delboys

For a start its 11 vs 10.

Do you still count Robbie Keane as a contributing starter?:rolleyes:

Lord Trollington

I would like to see Mick McCarthy back at the helm. Trap out. Simple as that.

Roger Sterling

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

Roger Sterling wrote: »

They wouldnt destroy anyone lets be fair.

You've seen a lot of those 11 so I take it?

Yes.

Youre guilty of the typical Irish fan's habit of glorifying the pretty mundane talents of players based purely on the fact theyvr been overlooked by management.

Last year Stephen Ward was apparently amazing.

Before that it was Andy Reid, Stephen Ireland et al.

devotional1993

applehunter wrote: »

Give me Delboys

For a start its 11 vs 10.

Do you still count Robbie Keane as a contributing starter?:rolleyes:

Unfair, I think its unfair to the criticise the strikers at the moment. They aren't getting a sniff of the ball.

Mr.Nice Guy

Earlier I asked those who want Trap gone what the alternative would mean and so far it seems like the answer I've gotten is that it means having to accept a return to the days between '02 and '12 - the decade of being on the sidelines - in the hope that one day the stars will align and we'll have great football that gets us to a finals. Well you can leave me out of that fantasy. I haven't forgotten the days of Staunton when we were completely bereft of any hope for qualification, an experience the Welsh fans know pretty well, and that is a far more desperate situation than what people on here are complaining about - a poor away performance in which we got the win.

Roger Sterling

Lord Trollington wrote: »

I would like to see Mick McCarthy back at the helm. Trap out. Simple as that.

Funnily enough Mick's last reign ended to the sound of howls of dismay from dusgruntled fans calling for the head of a manager who had recentlh deluvered a major finals.

Be careful what you wish for kids, you might end up eight years down the line loking back at Trap wistfully thinking he wasnt all bad.....

Roger Sterling

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Earlier I asked those who want Trap gone what the alternative would mean and so far it seems like the answer I've gotten is that it means having to accept a return to the days between '02 and '12 - the decade of being on the sidelines - in the hope that one day the stars will align and we'll have great football that gets us to a finals. Well you can leave me out of that fantasy. I haven't forgotten the days of Staunton when we were completely bereft of any hope for qualification, an experience the Welsh fans know pretty well, and that is a far more desperate situation than what people on here are complaining about - a poor away performance in which we got the win.

Boom. This guy gets it.

SirDelboy18

Roger Sterling wrote: »

Yes.

Youre guilty of the typical Irish fan's habit of glorifying the pretty mundane talents of players based purely on the fact theyvr been overlooked by management.

Last year Stephen Ward was apparently amazing.

Before that it was Andy Reid, Stephen Ireland et al.

Oh right. Thanks for letting me know.

Strange because at the time when people were clamoring for Reid's inclusion he was starring in a Sunderland side that dominated the likes of Man Utd away from home.

Stephen Ireland would still improve the squad.

O'Brien was one of West Ham's star performers in their promotion, and Pearce Reading's player of the year. Tell me how they aren't showing more form and ability than O'Dea and St.Ledger?

Wilson was consistent at left back for Stoke last year, Ward was part of a relegated side who leaked a lot of goals.

Gibson turns out solidly for CL contenders and McCarthy was seen only months back excelling in Wigans conclusion to the season, and has had a good start to this one too.

Pilkington was one of Norwich's standout performers in their obviously good season, and McClean was one of the leagues breakthrough players .

So tell me how the players I have mentioned are mundane compared to the current crop. Because you have just dismissed me off hand and it's clear that you haven't seen many of these players very much.

applehunter

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Earlier I asked those who want Trap gone what the alternative would mean and so far it seems like the answer I've gotten is that it means having to accept a return to the days between '02 and '12 - the decade of being on the sidelines - in the hope that one day the stars will align and we'll have great football that gets us to a finals. Well you can leave me out of that fantasy. I haven't forgotten the days of Staunton when we were completely bereft of any hope for qualification, an experience the Welsh fans know pretty well, and that is a far more desperate situation than what people on here are complaining about - a poor away performance in which we got the win.

Yeah its just this performance.

Skippy44

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

---

Westwood

---

O'Brien--Clark--Pearce--Wilson
----Gibson--McCarthy---
Coleman--Pilkington--McClean

---

Long

---

Reid, Henderson and Hoolahan are all strong alternatives.

That team, featuring two of tonights starters, would easily tear our current starting team to shreds. None of these players feature regularly if ever under Trap
That's not taking into account the likes of Kelly, McGeady, Andrews, Walters who would also add to the strength of the squad.

I like the look of that team apart from O'Brien; Kelly or Coleman at RB for me instead. However we all know that no semblance of a team like that will see the field during this qualifying campaign. I was overwhelmingly relieved that we even equalised, and p!ssed myself gleefully when Doyle scored. Surprisingly, our "pass it 5 yards sideways twice and then stand it up in the general area of their box" didn't really pay off tonight, a pitiful display. Surely there needs to be a bit of solidarity among the players....especially if they're being directed to play gash football against a vastly inferior team, speak up ffs lads! Anyway, I will always take 3 points and hope that the performance is better next time.

SirDelboy18

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Earlier I asked those who want Trap gone what the alternative would mean and so far it seems like the answer I've gotten is that it means having to accept a return to the days between '02 and '12 - the decade of being on the sidelines - in the hope that one day the stars will align and we'll have great football that gets us to a finals. Well you can leave me out of that fantasy. I haven't forgotten the days of Staunton when we were completely bereft of any hope for qualification, an experience the Welsh fans know pretty well, and that is a far more desperate situation than what people on here are complaining about - a poor away performance in which we got the win.

The alternative would mean someone like Brian McDermott being persuaded to come in and take charge which is a superb alternative to what we have right now.

adamski8

Roger Sterling wrote: »

Funnily enough Mick's last reign ended to the sound of howls of dismay from dusgruntled fans calling for the head of a manager who had recentlh deluvered a major finals.

Be careful what you wish for kids, you might end up eight years down the line loking back at Trap wistfully thinking he wasnt all bad.....

exactly, with trap i think we stand a chance of qualification, i dont see anyone else doing better, oh how fans are so fickle! even if tonight was a disgrace

Mr.Nice Guy

applehunter wrote:

Yeah its just this performance.

What were your thoughts on the away performance against Estonia?

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

The alternative would mean someone like Brian McDermott being persuaded to come in and take charge which is a superb alternative to what we have right now.

You're dreaming. You think he's going to walk away from the Premier League? Same goes for Hughton. Hell, we couldn't get Owen Coyle at the moment.

As for why Joey O'Brien isn't in the team, the guy has been benched since the start of the season and McCartney is ahead of him in the pecking order. The only reason O'Brien featured against Fulham was because McCartney wasn't passed fit.

adamski8

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

Oh right. Thanks for letting me know.

Strange because at the time when people were clamoring for Reid's inclusion he was starring in a Sunderland side that dominated the likes of Man Utd away from home.

Stephen Ireland would still improve the squad.

O'Brien was one of West Ham's star performers in their promotion, and Pearce Reading's player of the year. Tell me how they aren't showing more form and ability than O'Dea and St.Ledger?

Wilson was consistent at left back for Stoke last year, Ward was part of a relegated side who leaked a lot of goals.

Gibson turns out solidly for CL contenders and McCarthy was seen only months back excelling in Wigans conclusion to the season, and has had a good start to this one too.

Pilkington was one of Norwich's standout performers in their obviously good season, and McClean was one of the leagues breakthrough players .

So tell me how the players I have mentioned are mundane compared to the current crop. Because you have just dismissed me off hand and it's clear that you haven't seen many of these players very much.

u answered your own question regarding reid, temporary form being the answer and not suiting how the manager wanted to play and that manager got us to a european champinship with the players he picked, simple!
if you really think you know better than one of the most decorated managers ever then brilliant for you! bottom line is nearly ever manager will be called out over selection etc. surprising how the common fan that watchs motd highlights knows everything there is to know about player selection!
one thing i do admit an average fan can be vexed about is a terrible performance against a inferior team and there is defo a case to be answered tonight but it may be a once off euro hangover

val_jester

adamski8 wrote: »

exactly, with trap i think we stand a chance of qualification, i dont see anyone else doing better, oh how fans are so fickle! even if tonight was a disgrace

Just because the fans are fickle doesn't mean they are wrong. We do not have a lot of quality players so it is baffling that Trap has alienated some of them. Not all of the problems between the players and the management have been Trap's fault but he should be held to account for his mistakes.

Doff

Delighted we won, McClean, Wilson and possibly Pearce would improve the squad imo. Hopefully the performances will pick up. Strikers out on the wing instead of McClean, a young lad who's raring to go and isn't afraid to take on a defender is something I'd disagree with. McClean and McGeady on the wings with Doyle and possibly Walters up front would be nice, 2 strikers who are strong and good in the air mixed with 2 fast wingers who can cross a ball is never bad. McCarthy is a decent midfielder, he gets around the pitch well and I'm sure his (Already decent) passing will improve over time.

SirDelboy18

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

What were your thoughts on the away performance against Estonia?



You're dreaming. You think he's going to walk away from the Premier League? Same goes for Hughton. Hell, we couldn't get Owen Coyle at the moment.

As for why Joey O'Brien isn't in the team, the guy has been benched since the start of the season and McCartney is ahead of him in the pecking order. The only reason O'Brien featured against Fulham was because McCartney wasn't passed fit.

Or, O'Brien will continue to start because of his good performance against Fulham and McCartney's poor performance against Swansea. The nature of a large squad like West Ham's is rotation. The fact is that he stood out last season, when our three championship defenders tonight did far from that.

Also, McDermott has a confirmed ambition to manage the Republic. I'm sure if he was approached there would be some chance he would accept.

dreamers75

Few players in the Kazak team that Pats beat easily enough over 2 legs.

Thats the level our professional players struggled to overcome tonight. Kazak have 2 UEFA wins to their name.


Shouldnt be in UEFA but thats an issue for Pats fans to get over when we fcuking get teams from there.

Mr.Nice Guy

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

Or, O'Brien will continue to start because of his good performance against Fulham and McCartney's poor performance against Swansea. The nature of a large squad like West Ham's is rotation. The fact is that he stood out last season, when our three championship defenders tonight did far from that.

Also, McDermott has a confirmed ambition to manage the Republic. I'm sure if he was approached there would be some chance he would accept.

Again it's all wishful thinking. Disregard what we know works in favour of something on a wing and a prayer.

Roger Sterling

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

Roger Sterling wrote: »

Yes.

Youre guilty of the typical Irish fan's habit of glorifying the pretty mundane talents of players based purely on the fact theyvr been overlooked by management.

Last year Stephen Ward was apparently amazing.

Before that it was Andy Reid, Stephen Ireland et al.

Oh right. Thanks for letting me know.

Strange because at the time when people were clamoring for Reid's inclusion he was starring in a Sunderland side that dominated the likes of Man Utd away from home.

Stephen Ireland would still improve the squad.

O'Brien was one of West Ham's star performers in their promotion, and Pearce Reading's player of the year. Tell me how they aren't showing more form and ability than O'Dea and St.Ledger?

Wilson was consistent at left back for Stoke last year, Ward was part of a relegated side who leaked a lot of goals.

Gibson turns out solidly for CL contenders and McCarthy was seen only months back excelling in Wigans conclusion to the season, and has had a good start to this one too.

Pilkington was one of Norwich's standout performers in their obviously good season, and McClean was one of the leagues breakthrough players .

So tell me how the players I have mentioned are mundane compared to the current crop. Because you have just dismissed me off hand and it's clear that you haven't seen many of these players very much.

Theyre still mundane players playing ( some not playing) for mundne clubs.

And anyway comparing individuals is pointless when it comes to Traps teams. It comes down to how well a player fits the system and how committed they are to thd cause. Gibson for example is probably individually better than Whelan alright but is too lazy to perform yhe specific role within the overall system that Trap demands. All of this 100% fine with me as it has so far helped the manager fulfil thr exact job description handed to him - qualification. He gets the results that matter. Paper teams dont.

SirDelboy18

Roger Sterling wrote: »

Theyre still mundane players playing ( some not playing) for mundne clubs.

And anyway comparing individuals is pointless when it comes to Traps teams. It comes down to how well a player fits the system and how committed they are to thd cause. Gibson for example is probably individually better than Whelan alright but is too lazy to perform yhe specific role within the overall system that Trap demands. All of this 100% fine with me as it has so far helped the manager fulfil thr exact job description handed to him - qualification. He gets the results that matter. Paper teams dont.

I was working off the assumption that we understood the severe flaws in the system - a system which surely must be changed following the past 4 competitive performances.

If you still agree with the system then anything I say is obviously redundant because we don't pass the ball, so no need for my suggested players.

adamski8

val_jester wrote: »

Just because the fans are fickle doesn't mean they are wrong. We do not have a lot of quality players so it is baffling that Trap has alienated some of them. Not all of the problems between the players and the management have been Trap's fault but he should be held to account for his mistakes.

no, someone is always right even if by chance. i dont think for a second that trap is alienating players for the craic, there are obviously other issues.

i remember not so long ago kerrs team was accused of lacking effort and the ushering of the stauton errar with added "team spirit". now it looks like we could be ushered into a different "pick the players who are for the moment playing in a premeir league side" and all the problems will be solved!

of course he should be held account but honestly he has gotten ireland challeging for quakification for major championships which is a huge improvement

adamski8

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

I was working off the assumption that we understood the severe flaws in the system - a system which surely must be changed following the past 4 competitive performances.

3 of which were against arguable some of the very very best in the world!

Roger Sterling

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

Roger Sterling wrote: »

Theyre still mundane players playing ( some not playing) for mundne clubs.

And anyway comparing individuals is pointless when it comes to Traps teams. It comes down to how well a player fits the system and how committed they are to thd cause. Gibson for example is probably individually better than Whelan alright but is too lazy to perform yhe specific role within the overall system that Trap demands. All of this 100% fine with me as it has so far helped the manager fulfil thr exact job description handed to him - qualification. He gets the results that matter. Paper teams dont.

I was working off the assumption that we understood the severe flaws in the system - a system which surely must be changed following the past 4 competitive performances.

If you still agree with the system then anything I say is obviously redundant because we don't pass the ball, so no need for my suggested players.

The system got us to where we hadn't been in a decade. Fair enough it was exposed vs the two best teams in the tournament but we were already in bonus territory.

Give me a choice between Trap's players and system and your team I'll take the proven commodity any day of the week. Sure half your lads would cry off injyred every two games anyway.

val_jester

adamski8 wrote: »

no, someone is always right even if by chance. i dont think for a second that trap is alienating players for the craic, there are obviously other issues.

i remember not so long ago kerrs team was accused of lacking effort and the ushering of the stauton errar with added "team spirit". now it looks like we could be ushered into a different "pick the players who are for the moment playing in a premeir league side" and all the problems will be solved!

of course he should be held account but honestly he has gotten ireland challeging for quakification for major championships which is a huge improvement

The alienation of Wilson was due to Trap confusing him with another player, who is right in that situation?

The team looked like they had lost a bit of their spirit tonight. Nobody is calling for change for the sake of change. There has to be change because some of the players are not up to the standard required. The system has been shown to work alright against weaker teams but once we come up against the better teams we are ripped apart. Certain players are only still in the side due to Trap feeling a sense of loyalty towards them. And while loyalty is great, it is only great to a certain degree. O'Shea has been appalling recently at full back, but he has been excellent at cb, yet Trap won't move him there as it would mean dropping St Ledger and bringing in someone new at rb. There are changes that ought to be made which won't affect the system. The system needs to change but if Trap doesn't feel that way, fair enough, he is the manager but he must realise that some of the players are not up to it and that there are replacements available who would improve the team.

Roger Sterling

val_jester wrote: »

adamski8 wrote: »

no, someone is always right even if by chance. i dont think for a second that trap is alienating players for the craic, there are obviously other issues.

i remember not so long ago kerrs team was accused of lacking effort and the ushering of the stauton errar with added "team spirit". now it looks like we could be ushered into a different "pick the players who are for the moment playing in a premeir league side" and all the problems will be solved!

of course he should be held account but honestly he has gotten ireland challeging for quakification for major championships which is a huge improvement

The team looked like they had lost a bit of their spirit tonight.

Scoring twice in the dying minutes to claw victory from defeat would contradict this.

Rekop dog

Confidence was at an all time low today during Traps reign, understandable after being rolled over by 3 class teams in the top 10 rankings during the Euros, and then having a few high profile retiries, enough to dent any teams moral. Performance was obviously poor but the character shown late on to pull the victory out was heartening.

I know i'm in the minority that still believes that the Trapattoni project is the best way forward based on positive results in his previous qualifying campaigns and his extremely impressive consistant careers success rate, but think the swell of negativity around will only add to the already difficult challenge ahead of us in this strong group we find ourselves in and can see the ignorant majority of the home crowd being quite vocal in their concerns in upcoming qualifiers.

val_jester

Roger Sterling wrote: »

Scoring twice in the dying minutes to claw victory from defeat would contradict this.

Not really. They scored twice, and we got the points but throughout the game the players didn't look as comfortable as they did during the last campaign. Care to address any of the other points raised?

cson

I've thought about this a bit and yes I'd love us to play decent football but in reality with the players at our disposal our hand is forced. Its forced in the sense that we need results to maintain our ranking and stay in the hunt for qualifying for a major tournament every so often. Right now I'd argue Wales are player for player a much better team than we are but they're struggling because of their ranking they get lumped in with the likes of Belgium and Serbia etc etc. Its a vicious cycle and one that's difficult to get out of. I'd hazard a guess that given the choice; Welsh fans would take playing hoofball and qualifying once a decade to the 1 World Cup and 1 Euros they've managed already. I will say this though; even though Trap gets results his communication skills with the team are simply atrocious. He's a PR and player management disaster.

Also, Sadlier was a breath of fresh air on RTE tonight. Bang on in everything he said.

gandalf

I am actually flabbergasted that people are defending Trappatoni.

It is obvious to me and a lot of others that the man is incapable of carrying out the role of International Manager. We scraped through to the Euro finals because we got lucky in games where we should have been beaten. When we got to the finals we were a disgrace, at least in the previous finals that the Irish team played in we provided a competitive game to our opponents.

There is no communication, there is no proper structure, players are being played out of position and players who are more skillful are being ignored because they don't fit the system or because Trap has the hump with them.

Like every other Irish fan I want us to make it to the finals but i do not want us to then be a group spanking boy when we get there which is what we will be with this dinosaur in charge (not that I believe we will get close to qualification with the italian in charge).