Kazakhstan v Ireland match thread - 7/9/12 - 17:00

Roger Sterling

val_jester wrote: »

Roger Sterling wrote: »

Scoring twice in the dying minutes to claw victory from defeat would contradict this.

Not really. They scored twice, and we got the points but throughout the game the players didn't look as comfortable as they did during the last campaign. Care to address any of the other points raised?

The Wilson situstion was a cock up, sure. Trap has his faults undoubtedly including poor communication, stubbornness and at timed inflexibility. But for all that hes better than anyone we could get at present and his system, for all its flaws, has fulfilled hid job description , gotten us our first finals in a decade and moved us up the rankings, improving our seeding.

Pro. F

cson wrote: »

I've thought about this a bit and yes I'd love us to play decent football but in reality with the players at our disposal our hand is forced. Its forced in the sense that we need results to maintain our ranking and stay in the hunt for qualifying for a major tournament every so often.

What specific things do you see that Trap is doing to make the most of the strengths of our (as you see it) limited players' abilities?

monkey9

Hughton or McDermott! Just get a bit of pride and spirit back in that team. Trapattoni is one of the greatest managers of all time, but now he is just a very old man!

val_jester

Roger Sterling wrote: »

The Wilson situstion was a cock up, sure. Trap has his faults undoubtedly including poor communication, stubbornness and at timed inflexibility. But for all that hes better than anyone we could get at present and his system, for all its flaws, has fulfilled hid job description , gotten us our first finals in a decade and moved us up the rankings, improving our seeding.

I accept that the system has helped us achieve what we haven't been able to do in ages, but, surely, the time has come for certain players to be moved on? If Trap refuses to change the system, he must at least decide to change some of the players. They might not be world beaters, but they are an improvement on what is there at present.

Mr.Nice Guy

gandalf wrote: »

I am actually flabbergasted that people are defending Trappatoni.

It is obvious to me and a lot of others that the man is incapable of carrying out the role of International Manager. We scraped through to the Euro finals because we got lucky in games where we should have been beaten. When we got to the finals we were a disgrace, at least in the previous finals that the Irish team played in we provided a competitive game to our opponents.

There is no communication, there is no proper structure, players are being played out of position and players who are more skillful are being ignored because they don't fit the system or because Trap has the hump with them.

Like every other Irish fan I want us to make it to the finals but i do not want us to then be a group spanking boy when we get there which is what we will be with this dinosaur in charge (not that I believe we will get close to qualification with the italian in charge).

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm defending him because I remember the perennial disappointment of failing to qualify for tournaments and this man came along and got us there. I don't accept he was lucky because I'd then have to believe he was lucky for two campaigns, and even if I accepted that, well if he's so lucky keep him on!

We were in a group with the eventual finalists and a Croatia side that held the eventual runners-up to a draw and the eventual winners to a draw up until the final minutes. Of course that's a world apart from playing the likes of Saudi Arabia and Cameroon like you get to do at World Cups. The Euros were a massive step up and we didn't have the quality of other sides. Wasn't it said we were the only squad without a Champions League player? None of our players featured for the top six of the Premiership etc.

People forget all this and instead look at England and think we should be right up there with them. Instead we ought to look at Wales and Scotland and be grateful.

Roger Sterling

val_jester wrote: »

Roger Sterling wrote: »

The Wilson situstion was a cock up, sure. Trap has his faults undoubtedly including poor communication, stubbornness and at timed inflexibility. But for all that hes better than anyone we could get at present and his system, for all its flaws, has fulfilled hid job description , gotten us our first finals in a decade and moved us up the rankings, improving our seeding.

I accept that the system has helped us achieve what we haven't been able to do in ages, but, surely, the time has come for certain players to be moved on? If Trap refuses to change the system, he must at least decide to change some of the players. They might not be world beaters, but they are an improvement on what is there at present.

Which players?Who will replace them?

The current players know the system. And the system is all important. Plus we have lost senior players to retirement. Culling more rxperience and know how would not be advisable IMO.

monkey9

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm defending him because I remember the perennial disappointment of failing to qualify for tournaments and this man came along and got us there. I don't accept he was lucky because I'd then have to believe he was lucky for two campaigns, and even if I accepted that, well if he's so lucky keep him on!

We were in a group with the eventual finalists and a Croatia side that held the eventual runners-up to a draw and the eventual winners to a draw up until the final minutes. Of course that's a world apart from playing the likes of Saudi Arabia and Cameroon like you get to do at World Cups. The Euros were a massive step up and we didn't have the quality of other sides. Wasn't it said we were the only squad without a Champions League player? None of our players featured for the top six of the Premiership etc.

People forget all this and instead look at England and think we should be right up there with them. Instead we ought to look at Wales and Scotland and be grateful.

You do make good points, but i just think he should go! Yes, he did qualify us for the Euros, but lets face it, we got so lucky in that draw with Estonia!

I just want a manager who will insti some team spirit and put in a perforamance for the fans to get behind. I'm so sick and tired of walking away from Lansdowne feeling deflated, sometimes even when we win.

That nil all draw with Slovakia at home was just vomit inducing awful!

gandalf

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

People forget all this and instead look at England and think we should be right up there with them. Instead we ought to look at Wales and Scotland and be grateful.

Bull**** what people want is the manager to do his job and have the team perform like a team. I never expected us to win the matches at the Euros, I did expect us to at least put up an organised competative game instead of the shambles that we were presented with.

Ok so we take on board the quality of the opponents in Poland and how we were inferior to them. Can you explain the farce that we as Irish fans had to endure yesterday evening? It appears to me that this team is disintegrating, disorganised, demoralised and do not have any real coherent system and the manager of this team is paid 2 million euros for this crud and appears to only have a plan A.

val_jester

Roger Sterling wrote: »

Which players?Who will replace them?

The current players know the system. And the system is all important. Plus we have lost senior players to retirement. Culling more rxperience and know how would not be advisable IMO.

You state you deride mediocrity, yet you seem happy to accept it with this team. Ward should not be near the team, Dunne/O'Shea should be our central defensive pairing. Clarke should be in squads. There is absolutely zero point playing Cox on the wing. There are players playing well in the Premier League who can replace them, but unfortunately Trap has pushed them out of his squads. The system may be all important but there are players available who can slot into the side. Experience counts for nothing if the players with experience aren't as good as the inexperienced players. The system is not so convoluted that new players are going to struggle to adapt.

cson

Pro. F wrote: »

What specific things do you see that Trap is doing to make the most of the strengths of our (as you see it) limited players' abilities?

Essentially what I was saying in the post is that our hand is forced in terms of the type of football we can play that can generate results and be effective. You know and I know we'll never play like Spain or Barcelona. Attempting to try and play an appealing brand of football could set us back years in terms of results before we ever get it right.

I don't think Trap is making the most of his resources or utilising the best tactical set up for Ireland. I agree with Richard Sadlier that he needs to go; the man gets results, by luck or by crook or whatever, but in terms of player management and tactically he's pretty much what he is - he's an old man, and old men by and large tend to like routine and hate change. The pragmatic person inside me says it'd be just short of madness to sack him and suffer the ensuing cost. We simply just have to ride out this campaign, hope we can nick a couple of draws v Sweden and Germany and maintain hopefully better our ranking and get an easier group the next time for the next manager. And hopefully it'll be a more progressive type of manager.

Roger Sterling

monkey9 wrote: »

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm defending him because I remember the perennial disappointment of failing to qualify for tournaments and this man came along and got us there. I don't accept he was lucky because I'd then have to believe he was lucky for two campaigns, and even if I accepted that, well if he's so lucky keep him on!

We were in a group with the eventual finalists and a Croatia side that held the eventual runners-up to a draw and the eventual winners to a draw up until the final minutes. Of course that's a world apart from playing the likes of Saudi Arabia and Cameroon like you get to do at World Cups. The Euros were a massive step up and we didn't have the quality of other sides. Wasn't it said we were the only squad without a Champions League player? None of our players featured for the top six of the Premiership etc.

People forget all this and instead look at England and think we should be right up there with them. Instead we ought to look at Wales and Scotland and be grateful.

You do make good points, but i just think he should go! Yes, he did qualify us for the Euros, but lets face it, we got so lucky in that draw with Estonia!

I just want a manager who will insti some team spirit and put in a perforamance for the fans to get behind. I'm so sick and tired of walking away from Lansdowne feeling deflated, sometimes even when we win.

That nil all draw with Slovakia at home was just vomit inducing awful!

Were you there for the party ehen we qualified? That point vs Slovakia might have seemed sh*t at the time but in hindsight was a means to an end. In the same way we might in time look back on tonight as equally vital.

cson

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

People forget all this and instead look at England and think we should be right up there with them. Instead we ought to look at Wales and Scotland and be grateful.

This is it. Player for player, both Wales and Scotland are arguably better than us.

Mr.Nice Guy

gandalf wrote: »

Bull**** what people want is the manager to do his job and have the team perform like a team. I never expected us to win the matches at the Euros, I did expect us to at least put up an organised competative game instead of the shambles that we were presented with.

Ok so we take on board the quality of the opponents in Poland and how we were inferior to them. Can you explain the farce that we as Irish fans had to endure yesterday evening? It appears to me that this team is disintegrating, disorganised, demoralised and do not have any real coherent system and the manager of this team is paid 2 million euros for this crud and appears to only have a plan A.

He has done his job from what I can see: two play-offs. Mr Lucky as you like to think of him was in fact desperately unlucky in the first one, and got a deserved bit of luck for the second one and did the job.

It was a bad day on Friday no doubt. I'm not suggesting otherwise. But to sack him for that is way OTT. What about Estonia away? Do we erase that from our memory? Or the home game against a very good Bosnian side? It's not all been bad.

Pro. F

cson wrote: »

Essentially what I was saying in the post is that our hand is forced in terms of the type of football we can play that can generate results and be effective. You know and I know we'll never play like Spain or Barcelona. Attempting to try and play an appealing brand of football could set us back years in terms of results before we ever get it right.

I don't think Trap is making the most of his resources or utilising the best tactical set up for Ireland. I agree with Richard Sadlier that he needs to go; the man gets results, by luck or by crook or whatever, but in terms of player management and tactically he's pretty much what he is - he's an old man, and old men by and large tend to like routine and hate change. The pragmatic person inside me says it'd be just short of madness to sack him and suffer the ensuing cost. We simply just have to ride out this campaign, hope we can nick a couple of draws v Sweden and Germany and maintain hopefully better our ranking and get an easier group the next time for the next manager. And hopefully it'll be a more progressive type of manager.

I agree if we tried to play like Barca or Spain that might prove difficult and cause problems. Of course nobody is suggesting that we should try.

I just wanted to be clear that Trap is bringing nothing noticeable to this team in terms team work, organisation or gameplan.

We rely on some decent centre backs and goalies, Robbie Keane and Aiden McGeady.

Will I Amnt

This brand of football we are playing is almost extinct.
It's time to move on.
Players like Whelan,McShane,Ward etc. are dying out and should have no place in our plans for the future.

Kazakhstan actually played better football than we did tonight which is completely unacceptable.

Who actually enjoys watching Ireland play??
It's tedious,frustrating bullshìt that we have to put up with.
The goal is qualification at all costs but for what??
To go and get embarassed at another tournament??

Personally I would rather be able to enjoy attending or even watching games and not qualify than to have to endure(and I stress the word endure)this rubbish,outdated crap that is served up to us everytime without fail.

I love the game of football.....this is not it.
We might aswell be watching it on teletext if it's only results we care about.

We should just accept we are not good enough to be at major finals.
Play the game like it's meant to be played and whatever happens....so be it.

Pro. F

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

He has done his job from what I can see: two play-offs. Mr Lucky as you like to think of him was in fact desperately unlucky in the first one, and got a deserved bit of luck for the second one and did the job.

Trap's system failed dramatically in the first leg. When his system was abandoned for the second leg the team actually managed to run France close. You cannot be giving Trap credit for that and saying he was unlucky. He fúcked up our chances in that play-off with his system.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

It was a bad day on Friday no doubt. I'm not suggesting otherwise. But to sack him for that is way OTT. What about Estonia away? Do we erase that from our memory? Or the home game against a very good Bosnian side? It's not all been bad.

Beating a ten man Estonia should be nothing to crow about.
Bosnia was a friendly.

Could be a vital 3 points. I'm not sure what the hell people expect from this irish team.

It's not easy on the eye but it's 3 points.

I'd say Mc Clean will never play for Ireland again if he tweeted that nonsense, and rightly so. Personally I think he deserves game time but needs to respect the manager.

yabadabado

Roger Sterling wrote: »

Which players?Who will replace them?

The current players know the system. And the system is all important. Plus we have lost senior players to retirement. Culling more rxperience and know how would not be advisable IMO.

Trap wont change the system but with 2 or 3 players changed the team can be improved .
Ward should be replaced by Wilson and I think everyone would be in agreement thats an improvement.
McLean on the wing instead of Cox.
O'Shea playing CB.
Clark getting called up to a squad.He's playing regular EPL football and can't get a look in.He will most likely keep Dunne out of the Villa side this season.

Thats very basic tweaking of the team/squad and it would be an improvement and its not culling experience.

cson

Pro. F wrote: »

We rely on some decent centre backs and goalies, Robbie Keane and Aiden McGeady.

Imo we haven't been relying on Robbie Keane for quite some time. You can throw the top goalscorer thing at me or whatever but he's been poison for the last couple of years and the only thing keeping him in the team is that ****ing armband.

cson

yabadabado wrote: »

Trap wont change the system but with 2 or 3 players changed the team can be improved .
Ward should be replaced by Wilson and I think everyone would be in agreement thats an improvement.
McLean on the wing instead of Cox.
O'Shea playing CB.
Clark getting called up to a squad.He's playing regular EPL football and can't get a look in.He will most likely keep Dunne out of the Villa side this season.

Thats very basic tweaking of the team/squad and it would be an improvement and its not culling experience.

At a basic level; Gibson, Wilson, Hoolihan, Clark and Coleman would all improve that squad imo.

Mr.Nice Guy

Pro. F wrote: »

Trap's system failed dramatically in the first leg. When his system was abandoned for the second leg the team actually managed to run France close. You cannot be giving Trap credit for that and saying he was unlucky. He fúcked up our chances in that play-off with his system.

It failed dramatically due to a deflected strike from Anelka? I don't think so. Trap was the one that had the team express themselves in the second leg. Who do you credit it to? A player mutiny? Be serious.

Pro. F wrote:

Beating a ten man Estonia should be nothing to crow about.
Bosnia was a friendly.

Hammering a play-off rival is certainly something to crow about and friendly or not Bosnia were a good side.

val_jester

cson wrote: »

Imo we haven't been relying on Robbie Keane for quite some time. You can throw the top goalscorer thing at me or whatever but he's been poison for the last couple of years and the only thing keeping him in the team is that ****ing armband.

I think using that word is going a bit over the top. He is past it, but he keeps scoring goals, yet who is to say that Long wouldn't score them goals if he was starting instead of Keane. We will never know until the manager takes the chance. At this stage it is not that big a chance, because Keane isn't bringing a lot to the side.

cson

I don't think its over the top. All he does is complain to the ref.

val_jester

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

It failed dramatically due to a deflected strike from Anelka? I don't think so. Trap was the one that had the team express themselves in the second leg. Who do you credit it to? A player mutiny? Be serious.

Actually, iirc, Duff came out afterwards and said that a number of the senior players spoke with Trap and told him that if they were to have any chance they would have to change the way they played for the second leg.

val_jester

cson wrote: »

I don't think its over the top. All he does is complain to the ref.

Still think poison is overdoing it. He isn't a negative influence on the team, he just has zero influence on the game nowadays.

Rekop dog

International football really does attract the drooliest drool!

yabadabado

cson wrote: »

At a basic level; Gibson, Wilson, Hoolihan, Clark and Coleman would all improve that squad imo.

I would agree ,my point was that even the 2 or 3 changes would be an improvement without doing anything drastic.The OP was saying if we changed things we would be losing experience and changing the system

Mr.Nice Guy

val_jester wrote: »

Actually, iirc, Duff came out afterwards and said that a number of the senior players spoke with Trap and told him that if they were to have any chance they would have to change the way they played for the second leg.

Well if that is the case then isn't that the best solution to move forward - as Brady suggested - rather than chucking him and then probably having to write off this campaign as a transitional one?

I want the team being involved in that big party in 2014 and I think our best chance is to hang on to him. As has been said already, he'll be off after this one concludes anyways.

cson

Rekop dog wrote: »

International football really does attract the drooliest drool!

As I saw on Twitter; International Football is really like going to Mass. You can't wait til its over.

eagle eye

If we scored those goals in the first three minutes nobody would be giving out(bar the usual trap haters) but because we scored them so late everybody is up in arms.

Football is a funny old game isn't it?!

For me its all about the result, as long as they do what is expected I don't care about anything else.

val_jester

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Well if that is the case then isn't that the best solution to move forward - as Brady suggested - rather than chucking him and then probably having to write off this campaign as a transitional one?

I want the team being involved in that big party in 2014 and I think our best chance is to hang on to him. As has been said already, he'll be off after this one concludes anyways.

Well, yes, that would be the way forward, but, we have seen nothing to suggest that Trap is willing to adapt. The reason he was willing for that one match was because there was nothing to lose. However, after that match we have seen a full campaign of were we reverted to the dull, defensive play. Now, I understand that this might be necessary due to the players we have at our disposal, but, my argument is that their are players available capable of playing this system, who are better than the current incumbents. Russia, the Euros, and Hungary have all shown that our current system is very limited, and we are up against even coming second or third in this group.

briany

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Hammering a play-off rival is certainly something to crow about and friendly or not Bosnia were a good side.

Not every day Ireland beats a lesser rival 4 nil and certainly it was a welcome achievement but Estonia turned out to be awful and panicked badly in the spotlight. They got to a playoff thanks to rioting Serbians, imploding Slovenians and our reliably shambolic friends from the North. I would have expected nothing less than a comprehensive victory over 2 legs. The great result of that campaign would have been the 0-1 in Yerevan, IMO.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

If we scored those goals in the first three minutes nobody would be giving out(bar the usual trap haters) but because we scored them so late everybody is up in arms.

Football is a funny old game isn't it?!

For me its all about the result, as long as they do what is expected I don't care about anything else.

Some think we can play expansive football and qualify in style.

madma

eagle eye wrote: »

If we scored those goals in the first three minutes nobody would be giving out(bar the usual trap haters) but because we scored them so late everybody is up in arms.

Football is a funny old game isn't it?!

For me its all about the result, as long as they do what is expected I don't care about anything else.

thats exactly the comment of someone who didnt watch the game..

yeah it is about the result but do you have any idea how lucky we were? its possibley the greatest smash and grab we've ever had.. think champions league final 1999 except we got a peno and a long punt into the box after that that luckily doyle smashed home, before that i think we'd only 1 proper chance in the 2nd half and this was losing this team...

im delighted we got the win and a wins a win but dear jaysus its was awful really awful to watch..

Mr.Nice Guy

val_jester wrote: »

Well, yes, that would be the way forward, but, we have seen nothing to suggest that Trap is willing to adapt. The reason he was willing for that one match was because there was nothing to lose. However, after that match we have seen a full campaign of were we reverted to the dull, defensive play. Now, I understand that this might be necessary due to the players we have at our disposal, but, my argument is that their are players available capable of playing this system, who are better than the current incumbents. Russia, the Euros, and Hungary have all shown that our current system is very limited, and we are up against even coming second or third in this group.

You make good points and I agree with a lot of 'em. My own feeling is that he thought against Kaz an aerial bombardment would be too much for them to handle. It seemed promising in the opening stages but clearly they dealt with it better than the staff thought and the players could have offered more. It was a bad day all round but I'm not going to write him off altogether. I'm going to see how he approaches the game against Oman and hope that he tries some new variations.

Pro. F

rarnes1 wrote: »

Could be a vital 3 points. I'm not sure what the hell people expect from this irish team.

It's not easy on the eye but it's 3 points.

What people expect? Seriously?

How about that the back line and midfield defend as a unit and not as two separate entities. Do you know how team defending is supposed to work? That is not meant to be a smart question. I'm honestly asking if you know.

How about that when we play a long ball that the midfield get up and support the strikers trying to knock it down. Again, do you know how playing the long ball works?

You are talking as if there was a system and organisation of play present in the Irish play tonight which was ugly but effective. There was almost no system or organisation of the play for the Irish team tonight.

I've discussed football with you on here loads of times and I've always got the impression that you know plenty about it. I find it hard to believe that you really haven't noticed the lack of organisation and direction with this Irish team.

madma

it was actually good to see the reporter interviewing trap at the end and questioning him and giving him a bit of stick... but as usual trap ewaffles away..

if he doesnt change tactics for tuesday its going to be painful viewing

Pro. F

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

It failed dramatically due to a deflected strike from Anelka? I don't think so. Trap was the one that had the team express themselves in the second leg. Who do you credit it to? A player mutiny? Be serious.

France were comfortable winners and they got the vital away goal. The complete change of circumstances when we actually played sensibly and took the game to them, and the complete disaster the subsequently proved themselves to be at the WC, showed exactly how much of an opportunity had been missed by following Trap's system in the first leg.

Trap spends every interview espousing his defensive system and every training session working on it (the players have said this), so no he did not get them to express themselves. He may have told them to do it, but he did not coach them on it for more than one week in his entire time with this team.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Hammering a play-off rival is certainly something to crow about and friendly or not Bosnia were a good side.

I don't give a flying fúck about friendlies. I haven't criticised Trap for any failings during friendlies and I'm not going to get excited about one friendly performance.

You can crow about beating a 10 man Estonia and ignore all context of how they got to the playoffs if you want. You're just making yourself look foolish.

Pro. F

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

You make good points and I agree with a lot of 'em. My own feeling is that he thought against Kaz an aerial bombardment would be too much for them to handle. It seemed promising in the opening stages but clearly they dealt with it better than the staff thought and the players could have offered more. It was a bad day all round but I'm not going to write him off altogether. I'm going to see how he approaches the game against Oman and hope that he tries some new variations.

If he thought an aerial bombardment would be good against the Kazakhstanis then why didn't he get the midfield to push up and chase the knock downs? That is one of the basic principals of long ball football. How come you don't even consider it in your analysis there?

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

rarnes1 wrote: »

Could be a vital 3 points. I'm not sure what the hell people expect from this irish team.

It's not easy on the eye but it's 3 points.

What people expect? Seriously?

How about that the back line and midfield defend as a unit and not as two separate entities. Do you know how team defending is supposed to work? That is not meant to be a smart question. I'm honestly asking if you know.

How about that when we play a long ball that the midfield get up and support the strikers trying to knock it down. Again, do you know how playing the long ball works?

You are talking as if there was a system and organisation of play present in the Irish play tonight which was ugly but effective. There was almost no system or organisation of the play for the Irish team tonight.

I've discussed football with you on here loads of times and I've always got the impression that you know plenty about it. I find it hard to believe that you really haven't noticed the lack of organisation and direction with this Irish team.

I was talking about results in general rather than tonight's match specifically. It was a shocker to watch and Ireland got very lucky but when's the last time they were easy on the eye.

Trap will probably have Ireland in the mix again at the end but it won't have been pretty along the way.

Mr.Nice Guy

Pro. F wrote: »

France were comfortable winners and they got the vital away goal. The complete change of circumstances when we actually played sensibly and took the game to them, and the complete disaster the subsequently proved themselves to be at the WC, showed exactly how much of an opportunity had been missed by following Trap's system in the first leg.

France were comfortable winners? is that why their media branded Hugo Lloris 'Saint Lloris'? Did you watch the games?

Pro. F wrote:

I don't give a flying fúck about friendlies. I haven't criticised Trap for any failings during friendlies and I'm not going to get excited about one friendly performance.

You can crow about beating a 10 man Estonia and ignore all context of how they got to the playoffs if you want. You're just making yourself look foolish.

Okay, very good. I think I'm done going over this with you. If I may say so you have a posting style that seems very reliant on throwing out veiled insults against those who disagree with you.

monkey9

eagle eye wrote: »

If we scored those goals in the first three minutes nobody would be giving out(bar the usual trap haters) but because we scored them so late everybody is up in arms.

Football is a funny old game isn't it?!

For me its all about the result, as long as they do what is expected I don't care about anything else.

If we scored those two goals in the first three minutes, maybe that would excuse what happened afterwards. But that's a completely different match.

We had nothing to defend, but were still awful. As i've said before, a legend that he is and nothing will change that, but Trapattoni is just an old man now.

Pro. F

rarnes1 wrote: »

I was talking about results in general rather than tonight's match specifically. It was a shocker to watch and Ireland got very lucky but when's the last time they were easy on the eye.

Trap will probably have Ireland in the mix again at the end but it won't have been pretty along the way.

This just seems like avoiding the questions to be honest.

Again you are talking as if there is an ugly but effective system in place. There are very few signs of there being a system in place.

Tonight was only a particularly bad example of what was evident during the last qualification campaign and before.

Liam O

ultimately a manager who plays O'Shea at RB, Cox at RM or LM and when he brings on Long does the same, throws players like Ward in when Wilson is playing better and consistently too and among other issues that right now I'm too drunk to fully put forward, but will be able to in the future and may have done if I didn't witness the Poland massacre first hand cannot be trusted with the long term future of a team that potentially could have Clark, McClean, Coleman, Long, Walters and Cunnigham even in it for the next 5-10 years in it.

monkey9

When the Trap took over, there was enthusiasm.That lit up the squad. But that's gone now and is starting to eat away the spirit. Germany will win the group, Sweden will finish second and Ireland will finish four or five points behind the Swedes.

Pro. F

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

France were comfortable winners? is that why their media branded Hugo Lloris 'Saint Lloris'? Did you watch the games?

Of course I watched the games. I'm going to trust what I saw over your interpretation of what a French newspaper editor thought of the game.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Okay, very good. I think I'm done going over this with you. If I may say so you have a posting style that seems very reliant on throwing out veiled insults against those who disagree with you.

Cry me a river.

Xavi6

Sadlier was brilliant on RTE, good to see him putting it up to Brady who clearly can't speak objectively where Trap's concerned.

Also, saying that the win is the 'only' thing that matters is incredibly naive. It is the most important aspect, but by no means encouraging long term. Pissing off another player tops it off nicely.

Trap isn't going anywhere but that doesn't mean he should be given a free pass like many are doing.

monkey9

Xavi6 wrote: »

Sadlier was brilliant on RTE, good to see him putting it up to Brady who clearly can't speak objectively where Trap's concerned.

Also, saying that the win is the 'only' thing that matters is incredibly naive. It is the most important aspect, but by no means encouraging long term. Pissing off another player tops it off nicely.

Trap isn't going anywhere but that doesn't mean he should be given a free pass like many are doing.

Spot on Xavi. I'm completely on the side of Sadlier here. Pay what it takes to get rid of Trap and get the new manager in. Whoever it is, he has this campaign to judge the squad and players.

That's not to say we completely write it off, obviously give it a crack. But the way i see it, if we got in say, Chris Hughton, he'll give it a go but he'll also be more prepared for Euro 2016 whether we qualify for Brazil or not.

Trapattoni won't get us to Brazil so there's absolutely no point in him hanging around!

Pro. F

monkey9 wrote: »

Spot on Xavi. I'm completely on the side of Sadlier here. Pay what it takes to get rid of Trap and get the new manager in. Whoever it is, he has this campaign to judge the squad and players.

That's not to say we completely write it off, obviously give it a crack. But the way i see it, if we got in say, Chris Hughton, he'll give it a go but he'll also be more prepared for Euro 2016 whether we qualify for Brazil or not.

Trapattoni won't get us to Brazil so there's absolutely no point in him hanging around!

That won't be happening.

briany

Xavi6 wrote: »

Sadlier was brilliant on RTE, good to see him putting it up to Brady who clearly can't speak objectively where Trap's concerned.

You can tell that Brady admires Trap as a man and Brady's been a part of the managerial setup, he's been in the thick of it and probably been a part of some hard to make decisions and even though the "Fire Trap" brigade have a good point, their arguments and proposals must be qualified as well. Is it a feasible move to do so? Who'd be an interested, promising, positive candidate for the long term?