Kazakhstan v Ireland match thread - 7/9/12 - 17:00

monkey9

Pro. F wrote: »

That won't be happening.

Oh i know it won't, that was just for arguements sake. But he, for me, is an example of someone who, although is not and never will be a better manager than Trapattoni, would end up being a better Ireland manager than Trapattoni.

madma

its almost like trap wants to get sacked.. i mean our best players at the moment sitting on the bench, 1 gets 20mins the other doesnt even get on at all and plays players out of position, it really is mind boggling... Trap Out!!!

Oat23

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yeah it says it all about you and everyone else cheering against Ireland. Pathetic the lot of ye.

I was more upset with the performance. I can't force myself to celebrate a goal after watching 89 minutes of absolute sh*te. I wasn't against Ireland, we just didn't deserve anything from the game and somehow got 3 points.

monkey9

Oatesy23 wrote: »

I was more upset with the performance. I can't force myself to celebrate a goal after watching 89 minutes of absolute sh*te. I wasn't against Ireland, we just didn't deserve anything from the game and somehow got 3 points.

I'm the same! I just about clenched a fist and that was it. Delighted we got the three points because they could prove vital if we change manager, but that's about it!

grenache

Glad to see people are finally realising the folly of Trap's ways , and how hopelessly inept he has been, and continues to be.

None of his decisions make sense. Whether it be playing guys out of position or pi$$ing off individual players, the list of misdemeanors against him grows longer by the week.

Not for the first, or last time, TRAP OUT! And take that numpty Delaney with you when you leave!

Xavi6

monkey9 wrote: »

Pay what it takes to get rid of Trap and get the new manager in.

Except it won't happen, Delaney won't allow it as it would completely undermine the last four years and he'd be under fire even more so than he already is for wasting money.

We're stuck with Trap unless he resigns, which isn't going to happen either, and while the "just suck it up" merchants will continue to trot out that same old line it won't stop me from complaining each time his team serves up this kind of bollox.

He should never have been given a contract before the Euros and we're stuck with him now unfortunately.

Roll on November 2013 is all I can say.

Hank Scorpio

I was happy we won today and let out a roar when Doyle scored but was bitterly disappointed with the teams setup and tactics, Brady is lucky Dunphy wasn't on the panel tonight cause he would have tore into him

~Rebel~

While the FAI are relying on outsiders to pay 50% of Traps wages, I just can't see a situation where those wages are written off by canceling the contract, and then more funds are secured for a new man.


(Is it still the case that Denis O'Brien pays half his wages since the contract renewal?)

event

rarnes1 wrote: »

Some think we can play expansive football and qualify in style.

no, i dont think its that.

some would just like to see a different option now and then instead of just constantly hoofing the ball up front. we arent spain but we're far from Stoke city as well.
picking players on form and playing them in their correct positions would help as well

[-0-]

Some of you are saying we're not better than the likes of Northern Ireland, Scotland or Wales man for man. I agree with that completely. The difference however, is that they don't resort to the 'hoof it' strategy against the likes of our opposition today.

When have we ever been better than teams man for man and won? Our history speaks for itself, we have historically been able to tackle, control the game from nowhere, turn over the ball, and so on, and beat opposition that are better than us.

Today, we couldn't pass it. We had no structure, no intent, no leadership, and our manager didn't have a funking clue what to do. I'm not blaming the lads for having no skill today, I'm blaming the manager for not having a clue what to do when what he was trying was not working.

Those of you that are still in the Trappatoni corner will soon realize the damage he is doing to us. He needs to go, and fast.

I would prefer if Dustin was managing us at this stage, or even funking Dunphy! That's a bloody stretch of the imagination right there.

I don't want to dish out personal abuse, but I will never, ever, ever understand how someone can defend him if they watched today's performance live. I've never heard the panel on RTE refer to it as caveman football, basically saying that it's completely outdated and predictable which is what we were accursed of before we got battered in the Euros.

Be honest with yourself, we got humiliated in the Euros, and we were even more humiliated today. At least after the Euros we could say that two of those teams got to the final. Today, we can say sweet funk all about a team who is 140-something (i got the rank wrong in my original post, it's even worse than I thought), and who should have kicked us off the pitch. If we have to resort to hoofing it against Kazakhstan, we have lost all respect, and hope for ourselves. And for all you still behind Trappatoni, shame on you. He has a great club record but his international record is terrible.

Optimalprimerib

the realpigiron wrote: »

Good interview from Tony O'Donoghue with Trap. He didn't let him off the hook and asked him lots of hard questions including did Trap consider his position after Euro 2012. Liam Brady seemed to be a bit miffed with O'Donoghue's questions. Trap got out of jail again, the team will have to improve 10fold if they are going to even punch their weight in this campaign.

I may be wrong here but Brady was criticising o donohue for bringing up the FIFA rankings in the first question. Did bill not do the same?

It also came across as the 2 old boys felt their feathers ruffled by sadlier did agreeing with them. They really ganged up on him but it felt like it was because of 'who does he think he is' more than the argument he was making.

I think he is one of the better pundits, very honest and angry. Plus he fits into Liam's rebuttal 'who did you ever play for MILLWALL?'

Father Damo

wicorthered wrote: »

I don't think the most optimistic of us think we will qualify, especially after watching that rubbish. So in a way tonight's result was a bit meaningless.

The longer Trapatonni stays in charge the further down his tactics, stubbornness, poor man management and blind spots for players are going to bring us.

If prior to kick off I was told defeat tonight and against Germany would get him sacked, I'd have probably been supporting the Khazaks! His time is up and Delaney hasn't the balls to pull the trigger unless forced to do so.

Agreed.

It pains me to say it, but I would nearly write off this campaign now if we could have an in the zone gaffer who plays modern football. I would nearly rather forfeit WC 201 in return for plenty of prep time for Euro 2016 under a manager who has half a clue.

the realpigiron

Optimalprimerib wrote: »

I may be wrong here but Brady was criticising o donohue for bringing up the FIFA rankings in the first question. Did bill not do the same?

It also came across as the 2 old boys felt their feathers ruffled by sadlier did agreeing with them. They really ganged up on him but it felt like it was because of 'who does he think he is' more than the argument he was making.

I think he is one of the better pundits, very honest and angry. Plus he fits into Liam's rebuttal 'who did you ever play for MILLWALL?'

The FIFA rankings was just one and - not the most important - in a series of questions. The most revealing question was how Trap reacted when O'Donoghue came straight out and asked him did he consider his position after Euro '12.

Trap should have left after Poland, he can't bring anymore to the Irish set up and is just hanging around for the money. He's surely a well off man, can a reasonable deal not be arrived at to move him on with some dignity intact.

I remember John Giles resigned as Irish boss after a 3-2 win over Cyprus, because he obviously believed the writing was on the wall. Trap knows the writing is on the wall too, but they'll have to pay him off.

SantryRed

Our luck Under Trappatoni will never run out. We'll end up in Brazil and I've no idea how. Ridiculously lucky again and Kazakhstan should feel robbed. Even the Irish players at the end looked kind of embarrassed when shaking the Kazak's hands :pac:

IamtheWalrus

McClean isn't happy on the twittosphere.

devotional1993

Father Damo wrote: »

Agreed.

It pains me to say it, but I would nearly write off this campaign now if we could have an in the zone gaffer who plays modern football. I would nearly rather forfeit WC 201 in return for plenty of prep time for Euro 2016 under a manager who has half a clue.

?
No-why should we? We have 3 away points and at least lets aim for play offs. If we get a result V Germany who knows? There will be a lot of points taken off each other in this group.Sure it would be great to get Mick or Hughton in, but right off the world cup-no chance

Father Damo

devotional1993 wrote: »

?
No-why should we? We have 3 away points and at least lets aim for play offs. If we get a result V Germany who knows? There will be a lot of points taken off each other in this group.Sure it would be great to get Mick or Hughton in, but right off the world cup-no chance

But is it really worth qualifying if we are going to be embarrased? Two years and a play off, and our tournament received its first fatal bullet two minutes in! The only match we played half decent in at the Euros was the Croatia match, and even at that we were not great, we still got found out (and also lost realistically the only match we should have been aiming to win in order to inch out of the group). This is the first Irish tournament out of five played where we did not manage even one shock result. The old Ireland that was capable every time of giving the big boys a run for their money is dead and buried. I would have been proud (not happy, but proud) if our lads had played a good style and system but ultimately lost narrowly to superior players. Insted, we were lucky not to have lost by a higher margin. What is the point in a team that is low on morale with no faith in the manager qualifying? To play the same type of miserable football the French and Italians were playing between 2008 and this 2010? Squeezing into tournaments on luck, a wing, and a prayer, and succumbing to defeat in some truly dreadful heartless games? Especially like the French with Domenech, we have a manager with oddball tactics, bizarre selections and a knack for alienating his best players!

We used to write the book on glorious failure. Now we are just failures.

Banjaxed82

SantryRed wrote: »

Our luck Under Trappatoni will never run out. We'll end up in Brazil and I've no idea how. Ridiculously lucky again and Kazakhstan should feel robbed. Even the Irish players at the end looked kind of embarrassed when shaking the Kazak's hands :pac:

Don't think so.

Unlike the last two campaigns, Ireland has, in Sweden and Germany, two teams genuinely better than them.

I don't think luck will make much difference. Like the euros we'll be shown up against superior opposition.... As we always are.

Rekop dog

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

SantryRed wrote: »

Our luck Under Trappatoni will never run out. We'll end up in Brazil and I've no idea how. Ridiculously lucky again and Kazakhstan should feel robbed. Even the Irish players at the end looked kind of embarrassed when shaking the Kazak's hands :pac:

Don't think so.

Unlike the last two campaigns, Ireland has, in Sweden and Germany, two teams genuinely better than them.

I don't think luck will make much difference. Like the euros we'll be shown up against superior opposition.... As we always are.

Always are? We've put in pretty credible performances against Italy and France in previous campaigns under Trap and gotten results, we've also been beaten pretty comprehensively by some vastly superior teams which you'd expect from vastly superior teams. We've however never lost to a team percieved weaker than us during his time in a competitive match. We've the 3rd strongest team in our group no matter who we'd have in the team, any placing above that will be an big achievment, anything below that will be a poor showing and 3rd would be par.

People saying they'd be embarrassed for us to reach the WC after the Euros need to cop on. For 1 we wouldn't be facing 3 sides of the quality of the the ones we faced in Poland, not by a long shot, and personaly think it's be a massive achievement just to make it with undoubtedly the weakest group of players we sent to a major comp.

desaparecidos

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

A reminder of some of the cretinous posting in this thread this evening.

Reported for personal insult.

I wanted us to lose after the Kazakhstan went ahead I would want us to continue losing until Trap is gone. If you want to a cheer lead "team" who's only hope of doing well in this group is to be extremely lucky in the results we get, and the results of others in the group, that's fine. But need to insult others if they have a slightly different outlook.

Renn

Strange feeling being sorta pissed off when Ireland scored the two late goals. That team/set-up has annoyed the hell out of me for the last four years so I'm putting it all down to that.

dubmick

strange that Dunphy wasn't on the panel last night

Will I Amnt

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

McClean isn't happy on the twittosphere.

He should have known he wouldn't be playing.........it wasn't a friendly
And that's the last you will see of McCarthy if Andrews and Whelan are fit and eligible to play.

McCarthy is a good footballer but you might aswell have Paul Green there the way we play.
Sure we just bypass the midfield as often as possible.

ronsgonawin

Just after watching the game as I missed it last night due to work.

After that game change is definitely needed. Whether its the way we play or change of manager or both. I personally think that he cant do it.

The set up was wrong and the team selection was wrong, completely wrong.

Sure Ireland got the points but for anyone who payed attention to the last campaign should know that sometimes the result does not show entirely the whole story.

Argue all you like to keep trap but change is needed quickly.

Father Damo

Rekop dog wrote: »

Always are? We've put in pretty credible performances against Italy and France in previous campaigns under Trap and gotten results,

The 2010 campaign was pretty decent but we have been rotten since then. And back then France and Italy were god awful by their standard.

we've also been beaten pretty comprehensively by some vastly superior teams which you'd expect from vastly superior teams.

We were butchered by Russia. A decent team but not a vastly superior one either.

Rekop dog

Also can someone please explain where luck came into last nights victory as I'm struggling to grasp it. We had 62% of possesion, 9 corners to their 1, 21 shots to their 10, more shots on target, and scored two perfectly legitimate goals with the timeframe of the match compared to their 1.

markesmith

Probably posted already

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIR-_eXihpA

I can't believe that Giles or Brady privately believe what they're saying, and it's just plain awkward from the 3 minute mark on.

Fair play to Sadlier, and the two old boys sound like Bertie Ahern apologists. What is Brady at like?

Ferris_Bueller

[-0-] wrote: »

I was a big Trappatoni fan and even after the shambles at the Euros I did try to say that we should give him the benefit of the doubt - the doubt being that two from the group got to the final.

However, today was worse than Cyprus beating us 5-2. Granted, we robbed Kazakhstan in the last 5 - 7 minutes of the game, but our performance was absolutely dire. This is a big thread at this stage but I've been following it all day, and someone did mention Einstein's quote about insanity and they are dead right.

Why leave a winger on the bench and try to play three players out of position?

Why play the Jack Charlton tactic against a team ranked 120-something.

Is the bar so low now that all we can do is hoof it against Kazakhstan? I would expect us to do that against the likes of Spain, Brazil, Germany, Argentina....but not ****ing Kazakhstan.

Trapp has no plan, absolutely no plan. The lads were asked what he said at half time and they said he told them to push up more. In other words, he didn't ask them to try and play football, he wanted more of them up front so we could continue to hoof it.

I honestly believe after this that he is completely senile and he needs to go.

If the FAI won't pay him off I think we should. Someone else mentioned this as well. I would gladly give a grand to see the back of him.

If you defend Trappatoni after this you are as delusional as he is.

This post pretty much sums up exactly how I feel, was a massive supporter of Trap up until and even after the euros, but it has become a joke now. Worst performance I have seen from an Irish team, embarrassing playing long ball against a team as poor as Kazakhstan. Trap is going to be in the job until his contract expires, FAI just don't have enough money, as much as I want him to leave at this point financially it is not worth it.

I have a feeling this campaign is going to get ugly however, the fans at the moment seem to have an all time hatred towards Trap, which is going to show at games and the media. The players too seem fed up of Trap, judging by recent events with McClean, Wilson, Foley, Long and Gibson, I fear that he is going to lose the camp completely. These factors combined with what is a tough group, I've a bad feeling about this campaign.

I'll keep supporting the team however, hopefully I'm wrong in saying this will be an ugly campaign.

bohsboy

desaparecidos wrote: »

Reported for personal insult.

I wanted us to lose after the Kazakhstan went ahead I would want us to continue losing until Trap is gone. If you want to a cheer lead "team" who's only hope of doing well in this group is to be extremely lucky in the results we get, and the results of others in the group, that's fine. But need to insult others if they have a slightly different outlook.

How can you cheer on an opposition team when the chips are down and hope we lose every game? such a typical Irish response.

You haven't a clue about supporting a team. Its not all sunshine and roses, there are dark times when the players need you to urge them on.

doomed

First of all I will take the 3 points and would never, ever want to see Ireland lose a game. Getting a win in those circumstances is a bonus. I thought we were gone. We didn't deserve it but at least we hung in and never gave up.
Its a lifeline. The question is what we do with the second chance.

We dont need radical changes in the way we play and our guys are not able to play like Spain. What we do need is our well paid management to be honest enough to admit that they are making mistakes and need to do better.

For a start lets stop gratuitously insulting our most promising players by playing people of lesser ability out of position ahead of them. Second there is room on the pitch or even the bench for someone who can pick out a pass. The long ball is fine as a tactic but not all the time. We don't have 6 foot 4 inch 16 stone Niall Quinn to aim at anymore. Third, we need to realise that John O'Shea is a decent centre half but a useless full back.

Augmerson

Rekop dog wrote: »

Also can someone please explain where luck came into last nights victory as I'm struggling to grasp it. We had 62% of possesion, 9 corners to their 1, 21 shots to their 10, more shots on target, and scored two perfectly legitimate goals with the timeframe of the match compared to their 1.

Did you even watch the match last night?

Kerrydude1981

Trap not giving the likes of McClean and Coleman a run is baffling,both good PL players but they dont fit into Traps system,McCarthy will probably be dropped for Andrews when he is back as McCarthy likes to pass the ball that kinda of play has no place in Traps system either,Trap wont change his ways now,he doesnt trust the players to any other way then the way we see them play now

Only good thing that came out of that game for me was Kieran Westwood,he looks like he is ready to make the number one jersey his own

clubberlang12

Rekop dog wrote: »

Also can someone please explain where luck came into last nights victory as I'm struggling to grasp it. We had 62% of possesion, 9 corners to their 1, 21 shots to their 10, more shots on target, and scored two perfectly legitimate goals with the timeframe of the match compared to their 1.

Another example of where stats will fail to tell the true story of the match. When you have the players themselves saying afterwards that they didn't deserve the 3 points i find that a far more compelling argument and with regards the shots ratio i would say that Westwood was the more worked of the two keepers so what does that tell about it.

For what it's worth, as i seen some posters say it, i don't understand supporters hoping for an Irish loss. You can dislike Trap for various reasons, but don't stop supporting the team. I, for one, am a huge anti-Trap fan and have been for quite a while and i have been vocal on it here. At this stage, i know the likely situation is that we are stuck with him for the long haul.

One of my main gripes is that on an evening where Irish athletes once again showed the meaning of dedication and application in London we had most of a team and a manager that showed neither and i find that an absolute disgrace. The few hundred supporters that spent their hard earned cash and time travelling such a distance to support their team deserved a lot better and if i was a number of the Irish set up i would be ashamed after that display.

LuckyLloyd

desaparecidos wrote: »

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

A reminder of some of the cretinous posting in this thread this evening.

Reported for personal insult.

I wanted us to lose after the Kazakhstan went ahead I would want us to continue losing until Trap is gone. If you want to a cheer lead "team" who's only hope of doing well in this group is to be extremely lucky in the results we get, and the results of others in the group, that's fine. But need to insult others if they have a slightly different outlook.

'I wanted us to lose' are never acceptable utterances for a true supporter of a team.

Renn

I'm not a true supporter, thank you very much.

SantryRed

Lloyd,

How is me saying Kazakhstan were robbed a cretinous post?

I've never wanted Trappatoni to lose a game. I do want him to go though.

Predalien

One of the thing that's getting to me is the belief floating around that Trap brings organisation and preparation. Tha Kazak right full back was atrocious, but we never targeted him, a few times McGeady breezed past him, and then Doyle almost walked past him to get the cross in for the penalty. But there was clearly no instruction for us to target that weakness.

Our best asset is our wingers, McGeady, McClean and Coleman are all good players at a good level and given a proper set up they would have got plenty of joy down the wings (it was plainly obvious that the Kazak defence wasn't good on crosses from open play), but because we continually pumped the ball to Walters, and as only ever had one proper winger on the pitch, we didn't exploit a clear weakness. Preparation should be about looking at the other team and seeing where we might hurt them, Trap never does this, incredibly lazy management.

Another point was our corners, McGeady does not take good corners, but not once did anyone run short for him, and he took almost all of them. I think Cox took one at one point but that's something he has little practice doing. That is incredibly bad management not to have something better in place for set pieces.

doomed

dubmick wrote: »

strange that Dunphy wasn't on the panel last night

Not missed. Hope Sadlier stays. Himself an Brady should be good craic in the future. Good to have someone who played a bit more recently as well. By the way, why on earth do they keep giving Bill the gig?

Mushy

bohsboy wrote: »

How can you cheer on an opposition team when the chips are down and hope we lose every game? such a typical Irish response.

You haven't a clue about supporting a team. Its not all sunshine and roses, there are dark times when the players need you to urge them on.

Not that I was cheering on Kazakhstan, but I felt embarressed at the penalty, let alone the 2nd goal. The players surely know the fans are still on their side, that the anger is directed at the management and the style of play. I know we criticise the same players the whole time, but its not their fault they are being asked to play.

As for the campaign, well Trap won't resign, FAI won't sack him, so we are stuck with him. While stuck with him, lets hope for as many points as possible. Yesterday helped, in the least likely way.

polarbearhead

I wonder did John Delaney throw his tie into the crowd at the final whistle?

briany

Mushy wrote: »

Not that I was cheering on Kazakhstan, but I felt embarressed at the penalty, let alone the 2nd goal. The players surely know the fans are still on their side, that the anger is directed at the management and the style of play. I know we criticise the same players the whole time, but its not their fault they are being asked to play.

As for the campaign, well Trap won't resign, FAI won't sack him, so we are stuck with him. While stuck with him, lets hope for as many points as possible. Yesterday helped, in the least likely way.

Not that I think it was a goal that Ireland deserved but I've seen softer penalties given, even for Ireland, V. Georgia. That goal had it's knock on effect and I suppose it's safe to assume that if the 1st hadn't gone in, the second certainly wouldn't have. It was a total smash and grab, Ireland did not deserve 3 points based on their overall play but I didn't think the goals scored were embarrassing, just bewildering.

_blank_

SantryRed wrote: »

Lloyd,

How is me saying Kazakhstan were robbed a cretinous post?

I've never wanted Trappatoni to lose a game. I do want him to go though.

Don't expect an answer to that one, he's all about the hyperbole lately.

Hyperbole and righteousness.

desaparecidos

bohsboy wrote: »

How can you cheer on an opposition team when the chips are down and hope we lose every game? such a typical Irish response.

You haven't a clue about supporting a team. Its not all sunshine and roses, there are dark times when the players need you to urge them on.

How can you sit and watch an utterly hopeless setup and be happy to get a lucky win against a ****e team?

I came from a weak country in terms of GAA, whom I support and I support a club soccer team who over the last couple of years have been relegated multiple times, so yes I do have clue about "supporting" a team when they are not going well.

Some teams just don't have the resources to be any better and that's fair enough, but in terms of our international side, under a competent manager we could play so much better, and achieve much better results. Under Trap, results usually come via blind luck, or by just strangling the life out of a game.

Mushy

briany wrote: »

Not that I think it was a goal that Ireland deserved but I've seen softer penalties given, even for Ireland, V. Georgia. That goal had it's knock on effect and I suppose it's safe to assume that if the 1st hadn't gone in, the second certainly wouldn't have. It was a total smash and grab, Ireland did not deserve 3 points based on their overall play but I didn't think the goals scored were embarrassing, just bewildering.

Sorry I should clarify that I was embarrassed, not that the goals themselves were. If that makes any sense.

noodler

Brady saying that its uo to the players to convince Trap is an incredible argument.

Banjaxed82

noodler wrote: »

Brady saying that its uo to the players to convince Trap is an incredible argument.

Yeah. Couldn't believe it. When he said that, I knew everything he was saying was complete bollox. I'm more worried now if that's what Brady thinks is going on in the camp.

dfx-

I still haven't seen the Kazakhstan goal. Was it by any chance funnier than my favourite ever goal?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH64IfJLy8g

tolosenc

The performance was nothing shy of a joke. I'd wager a reasonable amount of money that the Kevin Foley incident in Italy has broken the player's trust in Trap, and their motivation to play for the national team. The performances, the results aside, have been god awful ever since.

The tactics we emplayed last night are perfectly acceptable against Germany next month. They are set out to level the playing field, so that the better team can't fully use their superiority. Kazakhstan, with all due respect, are ****e. There's no way on earth we should have been keeping it tight against them. The relative ease with which we cut them open when we really needed to shows how easy that game could have been. We have never been a team to blitz a vastly weaker opponent (I don't remember more than 5 goals against Liechtenstein, San Marino or Andorra), fair enough, but we should be winning that game by 3 goals. (Aside: Why have we never done that, barring Malta in the 80s? Why is it always 3 or 4 against the minnows and never 9 or 10? Finalnd, Bosnia, Moldova, Hungary, Poland, Czech Rep and Slovakia have done it recently, so why not us?)

I'm a big supporter of Trap, but there is something seriously wrong with his man management. And it's being reflected on the pitch, which is not OK. Though we'll probably pull a Moscow-esque performance against Germany in October and all will be rosy. We have a game at home to the Faroes in June. If we have 13 points or more after that, we're on course. Less than 12 and Trap should go.

LostinBlanch

Looking at this thread, it's obvious that there are two camps, and they're both easy to spot.

Those who are content to ignore the:

• Sh*t on a stick football.
• Playing players who aren't international standard - Ward & Green anyone?
• Continued refusal to play breakthrough players in favour of yes men cloggers.
• Poor communications from the management (I use that term advisedly)leading to fall outs with any kind of creative players.
• Continual unwillingness or inability to change
• Stubborness, can be a positive thing some times but not when allied to the above.

All in the hope that we can by some miracle manage to qualify for Brazil so they can stick their tricolour covers over their car mirrors backwards while humming the chorus of the Fields of Athenry over and over again for 30 minutes. All the while watching whatever group of players Il Duce scrapes together produce "performances" on the field that shame other Irish teams.
Look, it doesn't matter there's a bandwagon we want to jump on, and don't you dare do anything that threaten our dream. Come to think of it, I heard the same arguments in favour of keeping Staunton on, until things got so bad they shut up.

The second group, know their football and can see what's going on, and know that we have to change otherwise we are going to go backwards by decades in development. They know that after the absolute shambles of Staunton era, that Trap was the right man then. Someone who was needed to steady the ship and give some semblance of actual management. The players responded well, because they knew there was some coherent organisation to the way the team was run.

But Trap has stayed too long and is now holding the team back with his problems highlighted above. He is too rigid, too doctrinaire and has done something that I never thought any manager could do, make an Irish team in a major finals play so badly that they were less than the sum of their parts. The teams in Euro 88, Italy 90, USA 94 and Japan 2002 would never have produced such dire performances. A lot of the Trap defenders on here might be too young to remember that Charlton blooded and played younger players before USA 94, Alan Kelly, Phil Babb, MacAteer and they produced the goods in the finals. Compare and contrast the treatment meted out by Trap to McCarthy and McClean


We were never going to be world beaters and didn't expect to be, but we expected to add something to the tournament, to be able to give a performance that meant that we could beat the best in the world, or at least give them a hell of a fright.

We played above ourselves, with Trap we play well within ourselves.

Rekop dog

^^^ if you think this current crop of players is comparable in quality to previous Irish teams listed you really shouldn't put yourself in the people of 'know their football' category. It's a fairly shocking post tbh.