is the govt about to fall?

Bannasidhe

K3lso wrote: »

I believe we need less government, not more.

Seems most of the problems we face right now have been caused by incompetence. Massive overspending, bailing out private companies - it's all very Mr. Bean. Having said that, this government won't fall anytime soon - not that they're doing a great job or anything, quite the opposite. Unless there are marches/protests in the street akin to the final FF days, then this shower will continue to ransack the place and sail off into the sunset with massive pensions.

Did anyone honestly think that the oldest serving member in Dail Eireann, Enda Kenny, would have any stomach for change?! He was there through it all, seen it, done it, wore the t-shirt, collected his salary, sat on his hands and kept his mouth shut. The only parties that differ in any real terms are the ULA and they'd send this country back to the stone-age.

What we have to do is to get politically active. Join the parties and infiltrate them. Change them from the inside. Vote to remove the Establishment. If you're a private sector worker and you vote Labour next time, don't go on a hissy fit when they raise taxes on you to pay for the Croke Park Agreement - use your head. Encourage others that seek to set up other parties, join them and take a stand.

If we sit on our hands, nothing will change. And that's a guarantee you can take to the bank.

Rather then use the blanket term 'less government' which to me smacks of light-touch regulation which helped get us in this mess in the first place I would say we need accountable government - one in which pay caps are pay caps with no exceptions; salaries are linked to the average industrial wage as determined by the CSO; no unvouched expense claims (I would go so far as to say all expense claims should be itemised and full details published); no pensions paid out of the Exchequer to be claimed before the statutory retirement age and then only one per person; A cap to be set on maximum State pension payable - I would suggest the average wage as determined by the CSO -people could top up with a private pension if they desire; those Civil and Public sector workers who have demonstrably failed to do their jobs should face dismissal and sanction, including prosecution if deemed appropriate, a successful prosecution should result in loss of any State pension linked to their job.

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

Lots of rumours and discussions on radio shows this morning that the current govt may be about to fall.

Apparently labour party members have been told to prepare themselves for a possible imminent general election.

Apparently Sinn Fein plan to put down a motion of no confidence in James Reilly after his handling of €130m health cut backs.

Labour/FG coalition was never a match made in heaven, but its unwinding a lot quicker than I thought possible.

Opinions anyone?

I thought today was supposed to mark the end of the silly season?

jank

It would be a laugh if Labour pulled out. They are all bark with no bite and are doing now what they are always good at doing. Talking up the ante without actually doing anything. I would exclude Quinn and Collins from the rest of the labour crowd.

They know that big cuts are still coming and are just playing to their plebs in the PS.

K3lso

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Rather then use the blanket term 'less government' which to me smacks of light-touch regulation which helped get us in this mess in the first place I would say we need accountable government

Not gonna happen.

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. This is just the way it is. Your heart is in the right place but government will never be transparent. The only accountability we get is at the ballot box. Anything they do in between those terms is anyones guess. They'll never be held accountable - when has anyone in government been held accountable. It's a fairytale, a myth, a promise opposition spew to the populace to get into power, nothing more. And with all the layers of government, a monstrous runaway train of bureaucracy and special interest lobbying, your idea of accountability is lost.

The only real change you'll ever get will be when government is much smaller. If you would like to have a discussion on what can be done to cut the deficit, then fair enough. There are over 750+ quangos in this country - most of them can be gone in a few months. Privatise RTE, sell off state bodies and cut the public service bill. All this and we haven't even touched social welfare, the holy grail HSE (which should be privatised) or education.
The problem is that government is not willing to cut....ANYTHING. All we're getting are new taxes - we have a history of evidence that suggest you cannot tax your way out of recession. We need cut and cut BIG.

Lastly, you're of the opinion that light touch regulation got us into this mess. Nothing could be further from the truth. What got us into this mess was incompetence and an utter contempt for capitalism and free markets. Those banks, like your grocery store around the corner, should have been left to fall. If we had less regulation, we'd have 10,000 banks springing up tomorrow morning to take their place. The problem is government regulation that is killing the economy. You can't expect us to hold out our crystal balls and predict every regulation or piece of legislation that will be needed to avoid calamity in the future. The best option is to let these people go and set up their private companies - the mismanaged one's will fall overnight and the most competent one's will prosper and grow.

Just get out of the way and let people earn a living for their families.

Bannasidhe

K3lso wrote: »

Not gonna happen.

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. This is just the way it is. Your heart is in the right place but government will never be transparent. The only accountability we get is at the ballot box. Anything they do in between those terms is anyones guess. They'll never be held accountable - when has anyone in government been held accountable. It's a fairytale, a myth, a promise opposition spew to the populace to get into power, nothing more. And with all the layers of government, a monstrous runaway train of bureaucracy and special interest lobbying, your idea of accountability is lost.

The only real change you'll ever get will be when government is much smaller. If you would like to have a discussion on what can be done to cut the deficit, then fair enough. There are over 750+ quangos in this country - most of them can be gone in a few months. Privatise RTE, sell off state bodies and cut the public service bill. All this and we haven't even touched social welfare, the holy grail HSE (which should be privatised) or education.
The problem is that government is not willing to cut....ANYTHING. All we're getting are new taxes - we have a history of evidence that suggest you cannot tax your way out of recession. We need cut and cut BIG.

Lastly, you're of the opinion that light touch regulation got us into this mess. Nothing could be further from the truth. What got us into this mess was incompetence and an utter contempt for capitalism and free markets. Those banks, like your grocery store around the corner, should have been left to fall. If we had less regulation, we'd have 10,000 banks springing up tomorrow morning to take their place. The problem is government regulation that is killing the economy. You can't expect us to hold out our crystal balls and predict every regulation or piece of legislation that will be needed to avoid calamity in the future. The best option is to let these people go and set up their private companies - the mismanaged one's will fall overnight and the most competent one's will prosper and grow.

Just get out of the way and let people earn a living for their families.

So because power corrupts we should lessen regulation?
Does the pursuit of profit not corrupt?

Red Tape and regulation are not the same thing. I agree the amount of red tape in Ireland is beyond a joke but disagree that all regulation should be abolished I believe the regulators should actually do their jobs and regulate. Which demonstrably did not happen during the Celtic Tiger years - as those who bought apartments in Priory Hall can testify. Is that what you want more of?

We now have a government who announced pay caps - the proceeded to introduce exceptions. We have a government that is cutting essential services (and home help is an essential service) but continues to pay its own members an allowance for dry cleaning. They are not accountable to the electorate and they know it, the pathetic thing is we keep electing the same people over and over. That must change.

Sleepy

Colmustard wrote: »

Gilmore has disappointed me, he was great in opposition, but now you don't hear a peek from him.

It's easy to be great in opposition: you don't have to balance a budget.

Labour's great problem, and arguably this government's o,p, is that the voters they most represent are the ones who receive the majority of the state's spending: public sector workers and welfare recipients.

They're the wrong party to be in government at a time when we need to apply cuts to both of these groups in order to reduce the impact of budget cuts on our health system, education system and other essential services.

As long as Labour are in government, they'll continue to lose voters to Sinn Fein while the latter party promises free everything an no taxes safe in the knowledge they'll never actually be tasked with delivering on their rhetoric. As the other parties seem to be catching up to Labour's more progressive views regarding gay rights, equality etc. they're going to lose their traditional edge with the "right on" voters too imo.

K3lso

Bannasidhe wrote: »

So because power corrupts we should lessen regulation?
Does the pursuit of profit not corrupt?

Red Tape and regulation are not the same thing. I agree the amount of red tape in Ireland is beyond a joke but disagree that all regulation should be abolished I believe the regulators should actually do their jobs and regulate. Which demonstrably did not happen during the Celtic Tiger years - as those who bought apartments in Priory Hall can testify. Is that what you want more of?

We now have a government who announced pay caps - the proceeded to introduce exceptions. We have a government that is cutting essential services (and home help is an essential service) but continues to pay its own members an allowance for dry cleaning. They are not accountable to the electorate and they know it, the pathetic thing is we keep electing the same people over and over. That must change.

Regulators don't regulate - it's a mirage, an illusion.

Why? Because it is the people running private companies that get to do all the regulating. So why is this a bad thing? Because it allows the established companies and elites to create barriers to entry into their own vested interest industries. Who was regulating the banks? Bankers. And the only thing they're interested in is a monopoly backed by government. For the ordinary guy in the street like you or I, regulations hurt us, our families. They don't allow you or me to set up a business tomorrow and grow it on the backs of good consumer service or our hard work.

There is only one thing that regulates - us, the people, the consumers. And that doesn't involve hundreds of pages of complex language and paperwork. All it requires is that capitalism is allowed to be capitalism. Somehow, the media have managed to turn that on it's head and convince the majority of us that regulating our opportunities away to earn a few bob is in our interests. Nothing could more ridiculous.

What this government is engaged in is nothing more than Fascism in the truest sense of the word. They're raising taxes on private sector workers to feed a public service and then regulating away competition to those public services so that viable, proven and hardworking private individuals like you or I cannot compete to create alternatives. All the while, and here's the zinger - bailing out private industries protected by regulators.

Bannasidhe

K3lso wrote: »

Regulators don't regulate - it's a mirage, an illusion.

Why? Because it is the people running private companies that get to do all the regulating. So why is this a bad thing? Because it allows the established companies and elites to create barriers to entry into their own vested interest industries. Who was regulating the banks? Bankers. And the only thing they're interested in is a monopoly backed by government. For the ordinary guy in the street like you or I, regulations hurt us, our families. They don't allow you or me to set up a business tomorrow and grow it on the backs of good consumer service or our hard work.

There is only one thing that regulates - us, the people, the consumers. And that doesn't involve hundreds of pages of complex language and paperwork. All it requires is that capitalism is allowed to be capitalism. Somehow, the media have managed to turn that on it's head and convince the majority of us that regulating our opportunities to earn a few bob is in our interests. Nothing could more ridiculous.

What this government is engaged in is nothing more than Fascism in the truest sense of the word. They're raising taxes on private sector workers to feed a public service and then regulating away competition to those public services so that viable, proven and hardworking private individuals like you or I cannot compete to create alternatives. All the while, and here's the zinger - bailing out private industries protected by regulators.

Fascism? You don't think that is a bit over the top?

I am a bit confused - on the one hand you are stating that there is no regulating occurring but on the other hand call for no regulation.

In order for Capitalism to be Capitalism in the way I think you mean it requires a complete lack of regulation and reliance on market forces to 'regulate'. That is what happened with the banks and it created a bubble. The banks were run on the principles of the free market right up until the moment their huge debts was nationalised. So they have managed to both have their cake and eat it (and a large slice of our cake too).

K3lso

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Fascism? You don't think that is a bit over the top?

I am a bit confused - on the one hand you are stating that there is no regulating occurring but on the other hand call for no regulation.

In order for Capitalism to be Capitalism in the way I think you mean it requires a complete lack of regulation and reliance on market forces to 'regulate'. That is what happened with the banks and it created a bubble. The banks were run on the principles of the free market right up until the moment their huge debts was nationalised. So they have managed to both have their cake and eat it (and a large slice of our cake too).

Not true.

No bubble can exist without the massive expansion of easy credit available to the banks in the form of quantitative easing. The banks before the bust were not run on capitalistic principles. Particularly when you know government is there to bail you out, one has a tendency to not give a damn. If these banks were self-regulated i.e - the market, they wouldn't have been so badly mismanaged because it would have spelled their doom.

To answer your question, capitalism is the fullest expression of anarchism and anarchism is the fullest expression of capitalism. Think about it, billions of people around the globe creating services and products for consumption by other individuals who in turn, trade their own services and products. Where exactly does a central bank that has the power to devalue a fiat paper currency imposed on the people?

"Fascism" is not a strong word, no. It might be a dirty word, yes but it is perfect for this example. After WW2, anyone remotely involved in anything fascist would be flogged. Today, the same system applies, only it's called "Corporatism". Meaning, the elite regulate the ordinary people and create barriers to entry. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer. There are now more billionaires than ever before in our history. Is this because they are supplying a great service or product at an inexpensive price? Absolutely not. They're using the system and it's rigged in their favour. To the multi-billionaires, Capitalism is something that must be suppressed at all costs. Because it's not in their interests to compete with us.

entropi

The_Minister wrote: »

They aren't dictators, they're the politicians we want.

Its not that we want them, there's just not a good choice, from a very limited pool. Same old faces, same old problems.

Dyr

labour are'nt going to pull the plug now that they have their arse hanging onto the edge of the driving seat.

For a start all their backbenchers will look to their constituencies and know that they'll be screwed in a general election right now. Plus, do you really think there are TD's and officials in that party who suddenly grew some principles?

Next year they might have no choice in the matter if their rank and file finally mutiny.

Bannasidhe

K3lso wrote: »

Not true.

No bubble can exist without the massive expansion of easy credit available to the banks in the form of quantitative easing. The banks before the bust were not run on capitalistic principles. Particularly when you know government is there to bail you out, one has a tendency to not give a damn. If these banks were self-regulated i.e - the market, they wouldn't have been so badly mismanaged because it would have spelled their doom.

To answer your question, capitalism is the fullest expression of anarchism and anarchism is the fullest expression of capitalism. Think about it, billions of people around the globe creating services and products for consumption by other individuals who in turn, trade their own services and products. Where exactly does a central bank that has the power to devalue a fiat paper currency imposed on the people?

"Fascism" is not a strong word, no. It might be a dirty word, yes but it is perfect for this example. After WW2, anyone remotely involved in anything fascist would be flogged. Today, the same system applies, only it's called "Corporatism". Meaning, the elite regulate the ordinary people and create barriers to entry. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer. There are now more billionaires than ever before in our history. Is this because they are supplying a great service or product at an inexpensive price? Absolutely not. They're using the system and it's rigged in their favour. To the multi-billionaires, Capitalism is something that must be suppressed at all costs. Because it's not in their interests to compete with us.

On the one hand you said 'Who was regulating the banks? Bankers.' and now you are saying 'The banks before the bust were not run on capitalistic principles.' That is the source of my confusion.

Yes - corporations, indeed the vast majority of businesses, exist to create wealth for those who are invested in those businesses. Unless they are regulated the pursuit of profit at all costs is their M.O. They will stifle competition to create monopolies, they will dispense with any form of employment rights, they will move lock stock and production line to where ever they can pay less per production costs.

You have quite lost me with your fascism analogy - who is being fascist exactly? The Irish government as you first claimed (like they could ever be that organised!) or billionaires as you now claim?

K3lso

Bannasidhe wrote: »

On the one hand you said 'Who was regulating the banks? Bankers.' and now you are saying 'The banks before the bust were not run on capitalistic principles.' That is the source of my confusion.

Yes - corporations, indeed the vast majority of businesses, exist to create wealth for those who are invested in those businesses. Unless they are regulated the pursuit of profit at all costs is their M.O. They will stifle competition to create monopolies, they will dispense with any form of employment rights, they will move lock stock and production line to where ever they can pay less per production costs.

You have quite lost me with your fascism analogy - who is being fascist exactly? The Irish government as you first claimed (like they could ever be that organised!) or billionaires as you now claim?

There are no contradictions in my posts.

Mussolini said that Fascism is the "merger of State and corporate power". Well, look around...what exactly do you think you're living under?

A lot of people like to drink the socialist Kool-Aide and play up that capitalism got us into this mess - these people shouldn't be anywhere next or near Dail Eireann and yet there are many of them in there. The government protects billionaires by creating monopolies. Monopolies cannot be guaranteed in any other instance. This is fascism - I don't see where the confusion arises. You agree that private businesses will do anything they can to make a profit but who do you think gives them that monopoly to make a profit? Yes, you guessed it...the government with their regulators and their legislation.

That is not capitalism.

ejmaztec

K3lso wrote: »

There are no contradictions in my posts.

Mussolini said that Fascism is the "merger of State and corporate power". Well, look around...what exactly do you think you're living under?

A lot of people like to drink the socialist Kool-Aide and play up that capitalism got us into this mess - these people shouldn't be anywhere next or near Dail Eireann and yet there are many of them in there. The government protects billionaires by creating monopolies. Monopolies cannot be guaranteed in any other instance. This is fascism - I don't see where the confusion arises. You agree that private businesses will do anything they can to make a profit but who do you think gives them that monopoly to make a profit? Yes, you guessed it...the government with their regulators and their legislation.

That is not capitalism.

... and there's me thinking that we had a Competitions Authority.

Bannasidhe

K3lso wrote: »

There are no contradictions in my posts.

Mussolini said that Fascism is the "merger of State and corporate power". Well, look around...what exactly do you think you're living under?

A lot of people like to drink the socialist Kool-Aide and play up that capitalism got us into this mess - these people shouldn't be anywhere next or near Dail Eireann and yet there are many of them in there. The government protects billionaires by creating monopolies. Monopolies cannot be guaranteed in any other instance. This is fascism - I don't see where the confusion arises. You agree that private businesses will do anything they can to make a profit but who do you think gives them that monopoly to make a profit? Yes, you guessed it...the government with their regulators and their legislation.

That is not capitalism.

So - let me get this correct - we are living in a country which is a merger of State and Corporate power making it Fascist because the government protects billionaires with regulations and legislation yet at the same time we have no regulators as companies are allowed to regulate themselves. In addition Socialists shouldn't be allowed into government because they blame capitalism which is in essence anarchic and if left to its own devices would never, ever seek to create monopolies or billionaires ?

K3lso

ejmaztec wrote: »

... and there's me thinking that we had a Competitions Authority.

lmfao

"Competition Authority"...come on, open your eyes.

The anti-competition authority, more like.

K3lso

Bannasidhe wrote: »

So - let me get this correct - we are living in a country which is a merger of State and Corporate power making it Fascist because the government protects billionaires with regulations and legislation yet at the same time we have no regulators as companies are allowed to regulate themselves. In addition Socialists shouldn't be allowed into government because they blame capitalism which is in essence anarchic and if left to its own devices would never, ever seek to create monopolies or billionaires ?

You're obviously not interested in a genuine discussion. You offer nor attempt any rebuttal or evidence to the contrary. I'm done.

squod

This government cannot be dissolved. We won't get the budget from ''Europe'' to hold free elections.

It's either this shower or we're doing a Belgium. I really don't fancy any pen-pushing clutz from the PS running this place.

Bannasidhe

K3lso wrote: »

You're obviously not interested in a genuine discussion. You offer nor attempt any rebuttal or evidence to the contrary. I'm done.

I might if I could work out what the hell you were talking about. All I see are contradictions. How can I rebut when I am unclear about what you are actually saying?

Bannasidhe

squod wrote: »

This government cannot be dissolved. We won't get the budget from ''Europe'' to hold free elections.

It's either this shower or we're doing a Belgium. I really don't fancy any pen-pushing clutz from the PS running this place.

I'm fairly sure they already are...

twinytwo

Biggins wrote: »

Yep - and they know it - and whats more, they know a good lot of the public knows it!
...So they will use all that knowledge alone to stay in power rather than see it handed over to someone else.

We are stuck with the two-face, constantly u-turning, double-standard, lying bastards!

Exactly why bother having elections. Both FF and FG are essentially the same party. Both talk the same ****e, both will look after the golden circle/banks, both are incapable of fixing a country they both helped ruin, neither have the balls to take on the public service/unions, both are in it for the nice fat pensions, both are the lap dogs of the germans.... the list is endless. They should both form one main "**** the people" party.

squod

twinytwo wrote: »

Exactly why bother having elections. Both FF and FG are essentially the same party. Both talk the same ****e, both will look after the golden circle/banks, both are incapable of fixing a country they both helped ruin, neither have the balls to take on the public service/unions, both are in it for the nice fat pensions, both are the lap dogs of the germans.... the list is endless. They should both form one main "**** the people" party.

Fuhk the people party. FP. Has a familiar tone to it. Can even see the election posters now.

ejmaztec

K3lso wrote: »

lmfao

"Competition Authority"...come on, open your eyes.

The anti-competition authority, more like.

My eyes are wide open, and they are waiting to see you prove that the Competitions Authority should be the Anti-competitions Authority.

Grimreaper666

Well if they do collapse I know I won't be bothering my @rse to vote anyway, there's not a political party worth voting for, they're all fcuking liars!!

Master of Nothing

Master of Nothing wrote: »

Its not that we want them, there's just not a good choice, from a very limited pool. Same old faces, same old problems.

Do something about it then.

Smidge

I was listening to the radio the other day(couldn't tell you what station)when James O'Reilly was saying he had to cut 130 million from the HSE and the only way he could possibly do that was by revisiting the "Croke park" agreement as pay to that sector made up SEVENTY PER CENT of the HSE budget.

SEVENTY FECKING PER CENT IS WAGES:eek:

Directly after James O'Reilly's piece of audio, Along comes Leo Varadkar, who says;

"I can see no way that we can revisit the croke park agreement and cut the wage bill after an agreement was made and we as Fine Gael do not go back on promises we have made"

I kid you not, that is what the man said!!!!

So,
Number 1:
Does Leo seriously think that anyone believes him that the gov and FG haven't broken promises to the people who voted for them(or are they just keeping promises to people with a croke park agreement)?

Number 2:
If they don't touch the 70% that covers the wage bill that leaves 30% that covers everything else. And the want to cut 130 million from that 30%????

If they cut 130 million from the remaining 30%(which must cover medication, testing of all description ie xray, scans, etc hospital beds I think you get the point!)why do we need all of those people whose pay takes up 70% of the budget?
This is a genuine question and not PS bashing.
If there are very little services left(which one can only assume will be the case) if the 130 mill is taken from the 30%, why do we need people on a payroll when there are no facilities to treat and look after people who need these services?

Ghandee

mishkalucy wrote: »

I was listening to the radio the other day(couldn't tell you what station)when James O'Reilly was saying he had to cut 130 million from the HSE and the only way he could possibly do that was by revisiting the "Croke park" agreement as pay to that sector made up SEVENTY PER CENT of the HSE budget.

SEVENTY FECKING PER CENT IS WAGES:eek:

Directly after James O'Reilly's piece of audio, Along comes Leo Varadkar, who says;

"I can see no way that we can revisit the croke park agreement and cut the wage bill after an agreement was made and we as Fine Gael do not go back on promises we have made"

I kid you not, that is what the man said!!!!

So,
Number 1:
Does Leo seriously think that anyone believes him that the gov and FG haven't broken promises to the people who voted for them(or are they just keeping promises to people with a croke park agreement)?

Number 2:
If they don't touch the 70% that covers the wage bill that leaves 30% that covers everything else. And the want to cut 130 million from that 30%????

If they cut 130 million from the remaining 30%(which must cover medication, testing of all description ie xray, scans, etc hospital beds I think you get the point!)why do we need all of those people whose pay takes up 70% of the budget?
This is a genuine question and not PS bashing.
If there are very little services left(which one can only assume will be the case) if the 130 mill is taken from the 30%, why do we need people on a payroll when there are no facilities to treat and look after people who need these services?

I think if you spent any sort of time in and around an A&E dept on a Saturday evening for example you'd truly see how the HSE is actually grossly understaffed at a front line level.

Nurses understaffed and over worked.
Junior Doctors who in some cases work 24 hour shifts, sleeping on site (when they can)
Auxiliary nurses/carers being stretched to their limits.

We also have various consultants and professors, operating and working various roles and earning different salaries simultaneously in the private (VHI, etc) system, with their HSE rolles.

then we have numerous management positions, directors of nurses, directors of this, assistant managers of that, the pen pushers, on extravagant salaries, literally tripping over each other, frantically trying to look busy and justify their jobs, all while the backbone of the health system (the front line workers) are literally worked to exhaustion with poor facilities and equipment.

Once again on how a system of ours is clearly flawed, yet they want to make cuts at the bottom, instead of hacking away the dead wood at the top.

Lplated

Don't know why we get so hung up on which parties are in Govt., whether they might fall, whether there will be an election etc....

There is only one Govt. in this country - the permanent Civil Service.

And unfortunately, they are not now, nor ever, about to fall.

mikemac1

Labour trying to distance themselves from the next budget and want to put all the pain elsewhere. They know what's coming

Nothing new, nothing strange for a junior coalition partner, has happened before and will happen again

In Tipp we'd call Gilmore the hurler on the ditch. Sniping on the sidelines but when he gets responsibility he can do everyones job except his own

Smidge

Ghandee wrote: »

I think if you spent any sort of time in and around an A&E dept on a Saturday evening for example you'd truly see how the HSE is actually grossly understaffed at a front line level.

Nurses understaffed and over worked.
Junior Doctors who in some cases work 24 hour shifts, sleeping on site (when they can)
Auxiliary nurses/carers being stretched to their limits.

We also have various consultants and professors, operating and working various roles and earning different salaries simultaneously in the private (VHI, etc) system, with their HSE rolles.

then we have numerous management positions, directors of nurses, directors of this, assistant managers of that, the pen pushers, on extravagant salaries, literally tripping over each other, frantically trying to look busy and justify their jobs, all while the backbone of the health system (the front line workers) are literally worked to exhaustion with poor facilities and equipment.

Once again on how a system of ours is clearly flawed, yet they want to make cuts at the bottom, instead of hacking away the dead wood at the top.

I couldn't agree more on this point.
I don't think there is a single person in the country who was either themselves or a loved one who have been unlucky enough to end up in A&E over the weekend at some point in time.
Only to be told "I'm sorry, there isn't anything to do as there are no doctors here until Monday" so the patients just rots there till Monday.

I can give you a prime first hand example of this.
There is a specific dept in a childrens hospital that I attended here.
On one visit(but it was the same after this initial eyeopener)there are only 2 doctors who look after this particular department(I should say there are only ever 2 dr's in this dept).
There were ELEVEN admin staff in this dept.
There were literally falling over each other.
We sat and watched them and is was quite frankly shocking.
They spent more time chatting, walking around re-filling up their Ballygowan bottles from the water cooler, getting coffees etc.

mikemac1

The HSE needs Jack Welch!

K3lso

ejmaztec wrote: »

My eyes are wide open, and they are waiting to see you prove that the Competitions Authority should be the Anti-competitions Authority.

Surely you don't need me to hold your hand. The very premise of having a government agency with a role of upholding competition in the marketplace is pathetic. Hypocritical. Laughable.

It's right in front of you. What "competition authority" would decide what peoples jobs are protected from competition and whos are not?!

ffs....you haven't a clue.

MaxSteele

Install Gino Kenny as masterly overlord and dictator.

Seriously though, the man actually took part in some civil disobedience sit in to stop the council destroying two horses and basically trying to rip off two brothers out of 1250 E, even though the horses were cared for in adequate stable conditions.

dvpower

K3lso wrote: »

Surely you don't need me to hold your hand. The very premise of having a government agency with a role of upholding competition in the marketplace is pathetic. Hypocritical. Laughable.

Do you think we should have no competition law at all, or just that we shouldn't enforce it?

solas111

Nah, it would be impossible for this government to fall. They are already as low as they can get. Then, if they did slither away into the gutter, what will we get in their place – more of the same.

sparksfly

K3lso wrote: »

Not gonna happen.

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. This is just the way it is. Your heart is in the right place but government will never be transparent. The only accountability we get is at the ballot box. Anything they do in between those terms is anyones guess. They'll never be held accountable - when has anyone in government been held accountable. It's a fairytale, a myth, a promise opposition spew to the populace to get into power, nothing more. And with all the layers of government, a monstrous runaway train of bureaucracy and special interest lobbying, your idea of accountability is lost.

The only real change you'll ever get will be when government is much smaller. If you would like to have a discussion on what can be done to cut the deficit, then fair enough. There are over 750+ quangos in this country - most of them can be gone in a few months. Privatise RTE, sell off state bodies and cut the public service bill. All this and we haven't even touched social welfare, the holy grail HSE (which should be privatised) or education.
The problem is that government is not willing to cut....ANYTHING. All we're getting are new taxes - we have a history of evidence that suggest you cannot tax your way out of recession. We need cut and cut BIG.

[Lastly, you're of the opinion that light touch regulation got us into this mess. Nothing could be further from the truth.What got us into this mess was incompetence and an utter contempt for capitalism and free markets. Those banks, like your grocery store around the corner, should have been left to fall. If we had less regulation, we'd have 10,000 banks springing up tomorrow morning to take their place. The problem is government regulation that is killing the economy. You can't expect us to hold out our crystal balls and predict every regulation or piece of legislation that will be needed to avoid calamity in the future. The best option is to let these people go and set up their private companies - the mismanaged one's will fall overnight and the most competent one's will prosper and grow.

Just get out of the way and let people earn a living for their families.

Absolute rubbish.
Countries like Denmark, Norway and Finland who have highly regulated financial and planning systems have shown beyond doubt that it is the only way to go. They are the most equal, all inclusive societies, all within the top 10 for income per head of population.
Light touch regulation has been a disaster here and in the US.
Privatisation of public services and utilities in the UK brought about little competition and created a worsening of services.
Great for shareholders alright.

K3lso

sparksfly wrote: »

Absolute rubbish.
Countries like Denmark, Norway and Finland who have highly regulated financial and planning systems have shown beyond doubt that it is the only way to go. They are the most equal, all inclusive societies, all within the top 10 for income per head of population.
Light touch regulation has been a disaster here and in the US.
Privatisation of public services and utilities in the UK brought about little competition and created a worsening of services.
Great for shareholders alright.

Disagree..but it's obvious that you're biased. I don't believe shaping a country on the model of the Scandinavia countries as some on the left would try and push down your neck - all is not rosey in the garden like they'd like you to believe. It's a myth. Apart from their natural resources which makes up over 20% of their GDP income, in 2003 Sweden fell to 14th place from 5th in the prosperity index - from 1989 to 2003 Ireland rose from 21 to 4th place, Finland fell from 9th to 15th place.

The problem starts when the left uses the USA/Ireland as great examples of capitalism (and yet they've already gone off course in their assumptions). Although America ranks higher than these countries on the Index of Economic Freedom, Scandinavian nations are more free in several decisive areas. Denmark has greater business freedom, monetary freedom, investment freedom, financial freedom, freedom from corruption, and labor freedom while having comparable property rights and trade freedom scores to the U.S.

Sweden has greater business freedom and freedom from corruption, while having comparable trade freedom, monetary freedom, property rights enforcement, investment freedom, and financial freedom to the United States. Finland has greater business freedom, monetary freedom, and freedom from corruption than the United States, while having comparable property right enforcement, financial freedom, and trade freedom.

Norway has greater freedom from corruption than the United States while having comparable business freedom, trade freedom, and property right enforcement. Iceland has greater business freedom, fiscal freedom, and freedom from corruption, while having comparable trade freedom and property right enforcement. In many ways, Scandinavian countries are more "laissez faire" than the United States or Ireland.

Your assumptions are wrong - Scandinavian success doesn't come from any left or highly regulated agenda, quite the contrary - it comes from a greater laissez-faire approach than the "evil capitalists of the west", coupled with a rich natural oil resource. The welfare state imploded years ago. And they're not locked in an economic prison because they don't use the Euro as a means of exchange.

Ghandee

Looks like like the IMF may be getting worried now also.....

THE IMF contacted the Government expressing concerns about reports of instability within the Coalition, the Irish Independent has learned. In a sign of the damaging effect of speculation from within the Coalition about a general election, IMF officials had to be reassured, in recent days, that there was no split in the Government.

But the tensions within the Coalition continued last night as ministers made a U-turn on one of the controversial health cuts. And Fine Gael and Labour ministers offered differing views on the Croke Park Agreement. Cuts to personal assistant services costing €10m will be reversed with the savings to be found in administration and training in the disability sector.

The reports of instability within the Coalition came at a bad time for the Government as negotiations, on a bank debt deal intensify in Europe. Senior financial sources said there were "concerns expressed" by the IMF following reports in the international media, including the 'Financial Times', of talk of a snap election and the row within the Government over the health cuts.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/imf-asks-government-to-explain-whats-going-on-3220182.html

bgrizzley

mikemac1 wrote: »

The HSE needs Jack Welch!

or Jack Bauer...:D

ejmaztec

K3lso wrote: »

Surely you don't need me to hold your hand. The very premise of having a government agency with a role of upholding competition in the marketplace is pathetic. Hypocritical. Laughable.

It's right in front of you. What "competition authority" would decide what peoples jobs are protected from competition and whos are not?!

ffs....you haven't a clue.

You've offered no proof, just waffle.

Nippledragon

Not sure they are about to fall, they will make sure they have their own arshes covered for all eventualities anyways...

Its frustrating that there is not one testicle present in the current set-up. The country needs to be run by competent and properly qualified people. Politicians are too numerous and too powerful for a country the size of Ireland.

crusher000

It's a sad day for any country when you see people with dis abilities having to protest outside Govenment gates. No shame on our ploiticans that's the problem . Politicians can't have sentiment but the can at least show some compassion. Is paying back the bond holders really worth this crap.

preddy

Decisions they make are the problem, lets cut people with disabilities but rollout 200million worth of broadband.
FFS

preddy

What would be the point who we gonna vote in this time FG and .....?

bbam

did I hear somewhere that they need another 3-4 monthes in government before being eligable for their lifelong ministerial pensions...

doubt it will collapse before that little milestone is reached, why else are they there after all!!

Nippledragon

It was the same with the last government. Everyone of them jumped ship happy in the knowledge that they had their massive government pensions in place. Absolute incompetence rewarded with massive amounts of money.......feckin robbery

Kurz

preddy wrote: »

What would be the point who we gonna vote in this time FG and .....?

FF

They'll end up bed together at some stage and rightly so. They're practically The same party.