Idiotic parking Raleigh Row (Jes Primary)

Pappa Charlie

Iwannahurl wrote: »

To some of the above: perhaps.

In my my experience, though, motorists' sad stories and pleas are rated higher by the enforcers than those of pedestrians.

Often the enforcers seem very willing to give "leeway" (actual quote from a Garda) to illegal parkers, for example, but seem very reluctant to accommodate pedestrians. Indeed they will often strongly defend the motorists.

That has been my repeated experience as a pedestrian, often when pushing a buggy. Some of the Garda excuses I've been given spring to mind: "but they have their hazard warning lights on!" (cars obstructing the footpath opposite UHG); "they probably think they're being tidy" (construction company vehicles obstructing both footpaths along Maunsell's Road); "we don't like to ticket people [sic] on a family day out" (dozens of cars obstructing the footpath in the Dalysfort Road area); "there are no double yellow lines there" (footpaths and cycle lanes obstructed during two different public events in Salthill); "would you not agree that it's a special occasion?" (long line of cars obstructing the footpath along a dangerous stretch of Taylor's Hill). And so on, with rare exceptions.









* You're right about vindictiveness and/or hypocrisy in this context. I know of two people who were very active and outspoken in their neighbourhood about rampant illegal parking. I saw one recently double parked on a footpath (ie two cars on the pavement side-by-side) outside his house, and once had a conversation with the other about the problem of obnoxious parking in her estate, while she stood beside her car which was obstructing the pavement. Some people want AGS and the Local Authority to deter illegal parking in their neighbourhood with the sole purpose of making room for their own obnoxious parking.

and others have agenda's, cameras and buggies

what_traffic

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

and others have agenda's, cameras and buggies

dont forget "wheelchairs"

Iwannahurl

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

and others have agenda's, cameras and buggies

The buggy is a means of transporting a child, usually on a footpath, and is frequently obstructed by obnoxiously parked vehicles.

The camera is a means of recording and presenting irrefutable information, necessitated by the discovery that enforcers -- AGS and local authority -- routinely deny, dissemble and disregard when requested to enforce certain laws on behalf of pedestrians (though ever ready to pull out the jump leads for motorists, apparently ).

The "agenda's" are a figment of your imagination.

The objectives, on the other hand, are to educate the enforcers that footpaths are for feet and pavements for people, to remind them that the law is there to be upheld and should not be brought into disrepute by routine neglect and apathy, and to insist that the mobility of cars should not be prioritised over the movement of people, including children, the elderly and the disabled.

Evil subversive stuff, isn't it?

Iwannahurl

what_traffic wrote: »

dont forget "wheelchairs"

And walking aids, and tricycles...

Sempai

Iwannahurl wrote: »

The buggy is a means of transporting a child, usually on a footpath, and is frequently obstructed by obnoxiously parked vehicles.

The camera is a means of recording and presenting irrefutable information, necessitated by the discovery that enforcers -- AGS and local authority -- routinely deny, dissemble and disregard when requested to enforce certain laws on behalf of pedestrians (though ever ready to pull out the jump leads for motorists, apparently ).

The "agenda's" are a figment of your imagination.

The objectives, on the other hand, are to educate the enforcers that footpaths are for feet and pavements for people, to remind them that the law is there to be upheld and should not be brought into disrepute by routine neglect and apathy, and to insist that the mobility of cars should not be prioritised over the movement of people, including children, the elderly and the disabled.

Evil subversive stuff, isn't it?

Taking a photo a car parked on the path...fair enough, as I hate that too, but a patrol car helping out a member of the public?
Do you ever go out without your Sony camera?

Iwannahurl

Sempai wrote: »

Taking a photo a car parked on the path...fair enough, as I hate that too, but a patrol car helping out a member of the public?
Do you ever go out without your Sony camera?

Never -- it's like a third arm.

And you never know what you might see...

Pappa Charlie

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Never -- it's like a third arm.

And you never know what you might see...

I've a feeling that if you look in the mirror you might see the biggest problem you face every day and thats not a third arm!

what_traffic

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

I've a feeling that if you look in the mirror you might see the biggest problem you face every day and thats not a third arm!

Ah come on - your meant to attack the post not the poster.

biko

Some moderation done, don't let this thread descend into petty bickering as it'll only get it locked and someone banned.

shruikan2553

I had a problem like this when I went to secondary school. (Im sure it hasnt changed) There was a primary school and 2 secondary schools beside each other in the center of town. The primary school was beside a church with a decent size car park so you would think that maybe the best idea would be to park there. The back of the school was where the younger classes were in prefabs so the mothers (from my experience the vast majority was women, many of which in their SUVs) would drive down the small road with barely enough room for 2 cars to pass and stop to let their children out, blocking anyone from passing them despite there being a car park.

People who do this should be banned from driving near the school. You're child should be able to walk through the school instead of blocking all the traffic going to another school.

fifi234ie

Threadneedle Rd at school time is ridiculous. We were stuck behind 2 school buses parked up and took ages to pass them.
Why don't St Enda's let the buses pull into there school instead of blocking half the road, the Salernos could easily walk up there, it would save a lot of aggro.


The other day I saw a traffic police car parked on double yellow lines, it one rule for us, another for them :rolleyes:

Iwannahurl

shruikan2553 wrote: »

I had a problem like this when I went to secondary school. (Im sure it hasnt changed) There was a primary school and 2 secondary schools beside each other in the center of town. The primary school was beside a church with a decent size car park so you would think that maybe the best idea would be to park there. The back of the school was where the younger classes were in prefabs so the mothers (from my experience the vast majority was women, many of which in their SUVs) would drive down the small road with barely enough room for 2 cars to pass and stop to let their children out, blocking anyone from passing them despite there being a car park.

People who do this should be banned from driving near the school. You're child should be able to walk through the school instead of blocking all the traffic going to another school.

That reminds me of this thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=76736298

The people with the power to tackle this are the City Council and Garda Siochana.

When was the last time anyone saw them take action? As in, has anyone here ever seen a parking warden or Garda tackling the parking and traffic chaos around a school in, say, the last 20 years or so? I would be genuinely interested to hear of such instances.

Why do you suppose the Council/AGS default mode is to do absolutely nothing about it?

Pappa Charlie

Iwannahurl wrote: »

That reminds me of this thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=76736298

The people with the power to tackle this are the City Council and Garda Siochana.

When was the last time anyone saw them take action? As in, has anyone here ever seen a parking warden or Garda tackling the parking and traffic chaos around a school in, say, the last 20 years or so? I would be genuinely interested to hear of such instances.

Why do you suppose the Council/AGS default mode is to do absolutely nothing about it?

I couldnt agree more, you are 100% right, lets clamp, seize and ticket half the city every morning and photograph it while its happening, The council and Department of education should be providing multi story car parks beside these schools and spend the large surpluses in their departments accounts. The Gardai should fine these people everyday they drop the kids off in the rain at these locations which were built in cases over 100 years ago. There are surely enough Garda in the country to be at every school every morning to do this, its well known that they have nothing else to do at these times, traffic accidents, sudden deaths, sucides, burglaries, robberies, thefts assaults dont ever take place at these times and they have no excuses. Christ sake didnt a Garda jump start a stranded motorists car in Lahinch recently proving that Nationally they have loads of resources and the subsequent exclusive photo exposed a national scandal!

Iwannahurl

The enforcers have too many excuses, in my experience. One example is "this isn't Australia", a response to a friend who had lived in Oz for years and who reported cars driving up on the footpath as kids walked to school.

Laws are respected and enforced in Australia, and I wish we were as diligent.

dilallio

They used to have a similar problem in Menlo primary school, until the parents & board of management implemented a one way system which works really well.

Iwannahurl

It can be done, despite the excuses.

In most cases all it needs is a bit of leadership and initiative, a willingness to uphold the law for the greater good, and respect for other citizens (especially those who walk or cycle to school, since they create no traffic congestion, and in fact alleviate it).

One example of such an initiative is the An Taisce Green Schools programme, which includes a Travel theme.

It's not enough though, especially where traffic and parking law is being blatantly broken every day, usually at the expense of vulnerable road users.


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restingpilgrim

dilallio wrote: »

They used to have a similar problem in Menlo primary school, until the parents & board of management implemented a one way system which works really well.

This is already a one way street. Not that you would know it sometimes.

Iwannahurl

Here's the free-for-all footpath-abuse fest outside its near neighbour, Scoil Fhursa.

snubbleste

That looks like a quiet time.
Normally there are vehicles parked all over the place, causing all traffic to slow down and cease moving. I don't understand it at all.

Iwannahurl

snubbleste wrote: »

That looks like a quiet time.
Normally there are vehicles parked all over the place, causing all traffic to slow down and cease moving. I don't understand it at all.

A nuisance to be sure, but tbqh traffic hold-ups are the least of my worries.

The worst of it, in my view, is the way non car users are abused and treated as also-rans.

IMO the abuse of pedestrian facilities in such situations is tolerated/accommodated by the enforcers, because if these motorists parked on the road the same way they do on the footpath, the traffic congestion would be even worse. And you can't have that, so the people who are made to give way are the very ones who don't cause traffic congestion at all. Yet another two-tier system enabled by officers of the State...

Irishgoatman

I just don't understand the mentality of the parents who park in this way.
Do they not realise that the potential danger is greater than if they walked a short way with their child?

And don't forget that they become pedestrians once they get out of ther cars. Do they then complain about the parking on the pavement?

Webbs

Irishgoatman wrote: »

I just don't understand the mentality of the parents who park in this way.
Do they not realise that the potential danger is greater than if they walked a short way with their child?

And don't forget that they become pedestrians once they get out of ther cars. Do they then complain about the parking on the pavement?

Of course they do, the volume of traffic and how dangerous it is trying to walk to school avoiding all the obstructions on the pavements is the excuse for driving kids to school

Pappa Charlie

Iwannahurl wrote: »

A nuisance to be sure, but tbqh traffic hold-ups are the least of my worries.

The worst of it, in my view, is the way non car users are abused and treated as also-rans.

IMO the abuse of pedestrian facilities in such situations is tolerated/accommodated by the enforcers, because if these motorists parked on the road the same way they do on the road, the traffic congestion would be even worse. And you can't have that, so the people who are made to give way are the very ones who don't cause traffic congestion at all. Yet another two-tier system enabled by officers of the State...

Pedestrains also abuse vehicle facilities when crossing at junctions where the light is green for traffic, some even with buggies, many pedestrians run across dual carraigeways, stand on roads at events and ignore traffic, cross roads 20 yards from Pedestrian crossings. Walk on roads in dark clothes late at night, many use the main road and dont use the footpaths. I wouldnt hold the high moral ground if I was you and if you are so concerned why not join the garda reserve and sort it all out to your liking.

Iwannahurl

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

1. Pedestrains also abuse vehicle facilities when crossing at junctions where the light is green for traffic, some even with buggies, many pedestrians run across dual carraigeways, stand on roads at events and ignore traffic, cross roads 20 yards from Pedestrian crossings. Walk on roads in dark clothes late at night,

2. many use the main road and dont use the footpaths.

3. I wouldnt hold the high moral ground if I was you

4. if you are so concerned why not join the garda reserve and sort it all out to your liking.

1. What, another cohort of road users in Ireland blatantly breaking the law and blissfully getting away with it? Should we be surprised?

2. Would these be the same footpaths that motorists are allowed to park on with impunity?

3. What, I can't ask for lawbreaking motorists to be tackled because lawbreaking pedestrians aren't being dealt with either? Is this Garda policy or something?

4. Does the Garda Reserve have the necessary powers, I wonder? In any case, if that were an option, why do I not see the GR deployed for that purpose already?



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Pappa Charlie

If Ireland wanted zero tolerance in the morning I've no doubt it could be provided and I would do my bit, however my experience is that Joe Public including people like yourself like zero tolerance for everyone else but not when it comes to them or their families. Listen to Joe Duffy any day of the week and you will hear offenders being entertained and Joe belittling regulators or enforcers as you call them and you will learn what appetite their is for regulation in this country. If Gardai enforce a law then it is "revenue collecting" and a scam and have they nothing better to do. There are many many decent people out there trying to get by at the moment without getting hammered by the police everytime they drop of or collect their kids during a 15 minute period twice a day. Most do their best at locations not suitable for schools. It should be schools, parent representatives, Gardai and council officals who try to sort it but not with a sledgehammer approch as you would like and they all have plenty other issues to address at the same time with dwindling resorces.

swiftman

would be interesting to see how many parents drive less than 1.5km from the home to the school.galway is a small city and over 2km is not much and the air would wake children up. to many people are saying 'its to dangerous' which is awful. no its not, the council should be out there and clamp or ticket any car who pulls up on the footpath. better getting revenue in from proper laws rather than making up stupid ones every year adding a new 'household charge'.

maybe if a few cars that was parked on footpaths or on double yellow lines got 'keyed' then they might think again about parking there

Iwannahurl

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

If Ireland wanted zero tolerance in the morning I've no doubt it could be provided and I would do my bit, however my experience is that Joe Public including people like yourself like zero tolerance for everyone else but not when it comes to them or their families. Listen to Joe Duffy any day of the week and you will hear offenders being entertained and Joe belittling regulators or enforcers as you call them and you will learn what appetite their is for regulation in this country. If Gardai enforce a law then it is "revenue collecting" and a scam and have they nothing better to do. There are many many decent people out there trying to get by at the moment without getting hammered by the police everytime they drop of or collect their kids during a 15 minute period twice a day. Most do their best at locations not suitable for schools. It should be schools, parent representatives, Gardai and council officals who try to sort it but not with a sledgehammer approch as you would like and they all have plenty other issues to address at the same time with dwindling resorces.

Are local authorities and the Garda there to enforce law and order, or to court populism and to please people on the Whine Line?

Joe Duffy is a professional rabble rouser, paid almost as much as Barack Obama (actually much more than POTUS until a recent pay cut) to answer people's phone calls on the public airwaves. I recall hearing one of his programmes a few years ago, where he stirred the sh:t as much as possible about a case where a person or persons were jailed for non-payment of fines after littering at a bottle bank. Almost breathless with indignation, he ranted on about how ordinary citizens were being jailed for going to the bottle bank, whereas the corrupt bankers were getting off scott free. Bottle bank versus the bankers -- geddit? Joe even suggested that Local Authorities should provide Council workers to attend at bottle banks in order to help people dispose of their rubbish!

I rarely hear the Whine Line, but I was so incensed on that occasion by Joe's hypocritical rabble rousing that I actually rang the programme myself (:o) to point out that in 2008 over fifty people had been jailed for not paying their TV licence. Do you think they used that comment, or mentioned the fact that around 2500 people have to pay their TV licence every year just to meet Joe's salary demands?

As for accusations of "revenue collecting" against AGS, have a look in the Motors forum (eg Speed-Camera Mega-Thread) and you will see plenty of such self-serving guff. You will also notice, by the way and FWIW, yours truly defending speed surveillance both by AGS and GoSafe, as well as calling for even more rigorous roads policing.

Local Authorities' resources may be dwindling, but in which case why are they paying Parking Wardens not to enforce the law, which is what frequently happens in Galway City? Bear in mind that revenue from Pay & Display parking fees and parking fines can be a significant source of funds for local authorities. I was in Melbourne earlier this year, where I formed the impression that their laws are enforced rigorously, and they were predicting that the city (pop. 4 million) would raise $50 million in parking fines in 2013. The number of cars I saw obstructing footpaths there, or creating chaos outside schools, could be counted on one hand.

Populism is no basis for politics, and it's certainly no basis for proper policing, law enforcement and regulation generally.

There are many decent people out there trying to get by at the moment who have to run the gauntlet of motor vehicles being driven up on the footpaths every time they drop off or collect their kids. Why should they have to get out of the way to make room for cars?

As for those decent people in their cars, if it's only for a 15 minute period twice a day then why can't they do the decent thing and just park on the road? Are they not decent enough to see that the clue is in the word: footpath?

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Iwannahurl

swiftman wrote: »

would be interesting to see how many parents drive less than 1.5km from the home to the school.galway is a small city and over 2km is not much and the air would wake children up. to many people are saying 'its to dangerous' which is awful. no its not, the council should be out there and clamp or ticket any car who pulls up on the footpath. better getting revenue in from proper laws rather than making up stupid ones every year adding a new 'household charge'.

maybe if a few cars that was parked on footpaths or on double yellow lines got 'keyed' then they might think again about parking there

1. I wonder whether populist concerns will determine whether payment of the household charge is enforced or not? People in this country need to wake up: local services need to be funded (and that includes paying Wardens' salaries) and local government officials must be made accountable. Two sides of the same coin, I would suggest.

2. As for the possibility that illegally parked cars might get keyed, that's criminal damage (as was often pointed out in the Obnoxious Parking thread). Blatantly park a car across a footpath, forcing pedestrians out into traffic, and you will most likely get away with it. Scratch that car in as blatant a manner and you will get nicked, I imagine. The playing field is not a level one.

what_traffic

Iwannahurl wrote: »

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Local Authorities' resources may be dwindling, but in which case why are they paying Parking Wardens not to enforce the law, which is what frequently happens in Galway City? Bear in mind that revenue from Pay & Display parking fees and parking fines can be a significant source of funds for local authorities. I was in Melbourne earlier this year, where I formed the impression that their laws are enforced rigorously, and they were predicting that the city (pop. 4 million) would raise $50 million in parking fines in 2013. The number of cars I saw obstructing footpaths there, or creating chaos outside schools, could be counted on one hand.

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While agree with most of your post - would not be using Australia as a model. Countrys in Northern Europe offer better examples of using the carrot rather than the stick.

Iwannahurl

what_traffic wrote: »

While agree with most of your post - would not be using Australia as a model. Countrys in Northern Europe offer better examples of using the carrot rather than the stick.

Fair point. It just happened to be the case that (a) I was in Melbourne earlier this year, (b) I saw their enforcement regime in action, and (c) I had read that report about $50 million worth of parking fines in The Age newspaper.

I'd be generally more inclined to favour the Northern Europe model as well. Any particular examples you could mention?