The AVB Thread

Saab Ed

More proof he doesnt know what he's up to. He wanted the guy gone, now he thinks he's up to the job! This has nothing to do with results, this is just further proof that he doesnt know what hes up to...


http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11675/8046096/AVB-Dawson-will-come-good

This article is just a bit part in his comedy of errors. His team selections are not part of a system he's trying to put in place, they're just down right flawed and wrong. Even when the players settle into his system, there isnt one of us here who thinks Defoe up front alone and two holding midfielders is the way to beat Norwich at home.

His playing of Thud less than 24 hours after he was at the exit door, more crazyness. Taking VDV off when he was the best player on the pitch v West Brom is more of his messing. He did all this at Chelsea. It was a regular thing to see him take the best player off the pitch when he was incharge there. His lack of communication at Chelsea was his ultimate downfall there. Sound familiar.

I felt his cock ups needed high lighting in their own thread. I'd hope thread mods will allow negative comments and sentiment to be displayed by those who feel very unhappy with this appoitment by letting people post the proof of his inadequacies here. It wont be the only thread on any Spurs forum with such content

2nd Row Donkey

Good call.

This debate will run and run until he either turns it around or gets the boot and there's no point in going back to the norwich game thread for the next few months.

Maybe a mod can move the stuff from there to here but there's stuff in the West brom thread and the Daniel Levy thread as well so maybe its too much hassle. I dunno.

Leinstersqspur

Why not use the existing thread 'Our new manager - Good luck AVB' instead of this negatively titled thread that serves as a cranks charter!

Remember lad, the glass is half full, for now at least!:rolleyes:

NIMAN

As a total neutral I get the impression he aint got a clue. He's the new Juande Ramos by the look of things, going to ruin them.

He got a great reputation in Portugal, but I suspect that most of us could have made Porto win a few things in that league given the fact they were the top team for quite a while.

Since arriving in England he has looked to be lacking.

I bet he's good at FIFA2012 on the PS3, but with real football? Not so sure.

2nd Row Donkey

Yeah I was going to suggets that over the weekend but I didnt have the time.

anyway, here's my 2 cent

1) AVB would be mad to drop Friedel for the enxt game. The last thing we need is a ropey keeper. Lloris is probably brillant but all it takes is one soft goal (that normally wouldnt get a mention in the papers) and the tabloids will be all over him. The last thing we need is a keeper under pressure a 'la Gomes 2 seasons ago.

2) We need Parker back asap. Remember how toothless we were without him last year.

3) I agree that AVB was right not to drop Defoe at the weekend. He is coming off goals in pre-season, in the recent internationals and open fixtures. It would be bad for morale to drop him like a hot potato just 'cos Ade is back. however defoe was useless on Saturday so now he drop him because of his performance.

DubPerryman

Saab Ed wrote: »

More proof he doesnt know what he's up to. He wanted the guy gone, now he thinks he's up to the job! This has nothing to do with results, this is just further proof that he doesnt know what hes up to...


http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11675/8046096/AVB-Dawson-will-come-good

You're a very simple person. Michael Dawson is not worth anywhere near £9m... when a club offers double what a player is worth for a player who might not play many games, only simpletons would not sell.

This article just explains that even though Dawson was allowed to leave, now that he hasn't, he still has every chance to fight for a first team place.

golfball37

I wouldn't hang AVB for thinking Dawson is worse than Gallas, its a valid opinion.

Why is he putting on midfielders at home when we are a goal up though? TH & JJ substitutions were bizarre over the last 2 weekends to put it mildly.

Dublin Spur

I think is was a money decision more than a football one

selling Dawson would bring in a lot more than selling Gallas for example

it has the chairman's finger-prints all over it

Saab Ed

Lads I'm getting lots of reasons why I'm wrong but nobody has given me one good reason why he's any use. Give him time to settle, wait till the team are used to him. There's no answer in that as to why he should have gotten the job in the first place. What does anyone see in him that a) justifies him being given the position and b) inspires your confidence in him in the first place. what's this clamber to back up an awful manager!

Id usually understand and respect peoples decession to give a new manager a chance but I need to see justification. I've put forward a real argument as to why I think he's awful. Id genuinely appreciate a construtive positive argument for those in his favour and why, not just give him time.

Oh and without getting personal please. No need for insults. I'm not having a go at anyone here, I'm just a loyal supporter who's very worried and venting my anger.

SuprSi

Ed, look at his record in Portugal. Not only in the domestic league as you've already claimed that you or I could have managed that team to win the league, but in the Europa League too.

Liga Zon - 30 matches, 2 draws, 28 wins - Winners
Europa League - 15 matches, 12 wins, 2 losses and 1 draw - Winners

Regardless of what we all think of the Europa League, look at the teams Porto played against (everything can be found here http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/fc-porto/2011/3/). None of the teams in the latter stages of that league are pushovers, and some compete regularly in the CL.

We can all sit here and say that we could manage a team like Porto to these results, but that's just bollocks and anyone claiming this knows nothing about football management. Yes Porto usually win the league, yes they usually do so fairly comfortably, and yes he inherited a great team, with some amazing players (who won the league the season before and after he arrived), but he still managed to get them to play well, not lose a match in the league and had the players loving him and his style. He was hot property in Europe, the next big thing and when Chelsea picked him up I was gutted, thinking he was going to be Jose MkII. It wasn't to be and we all know what happened there.

Personally I'm surprised that Levy went with him as it's a massive gamble - sacking a reputable manager who has brought regular success to the club for the first time in years for a relative unknown who's only experience in the PL was anything but a success. Having said that, let's not forget that Chelsea were still 5th in the league when he went, not bottom or even bottom half, so although they weren't playing well (how much of this is the players fault) they were still doing alright and had the players been with him who knows where they would have been?

It was a bold move and time will tell whether it was naive or even stupid, but for the time being I'm happy he was chosen as I like the thought of someone potentially managing the club for a decade, even if he starts out slowly. Let's see what happens over the next 6 or 7 games. I just hope that things at the back improve as if we're being taken apart by WBA and Norwich, what will Arsenal & City do to us? :eek:

DubPerryman

Saab Ed wrote: »

Oh and without getting personal please. No need for insults.

Apologies, I didn't mean to be too insulting. I just got a little annoyed that you looked a completely harmless article/situation and reported as if writing for The Sun.

Leinstersqspur

Ed, I agree with SuprSi regarding AVB's nothing short of phenomenal record at Porto, unbeaten, only 13 goals conceded, four trophies in one season. You're suggestion that he is the Portugese Steve McLaren is largely inaccurate.

Saab Ed wrote: »

So you're happy with a Portuguese Steve McLaren then. Walked the erdevisie and brought boro to the same final, arguably against harder opposition.

I am one who has said give the manager time, largely based on his record at Porto. Your 'real argument' was as follows (I will explain after the quote).

Saab Ed wrote: »

Someone explain this lot to me .... Starts defoe and not ade. No logical reason.

Adebayor had no preseason, not fit, he could not drop Defoe (yet).

Saab Ed wrote: »

Doesn't start Dembele, again no reason.

Dembele had only one training session with the squad, he said himself he enjoyed coming on in the second half as he got to understand how the team was playing.

Saab Ed wrote: »

No Dawson in the squad but thud is in. Baffling.

There is no requirement for two CB's on any bench.

Saab Ed wrote: »

Wrong formation from the start to play as the home team against norwich. Finally figures it out that we need to be more attacking and would you believe it we go ahead

Who would you have started taking into consideration Dembele and Adebayor were not ready? I don't think it was his fault that Livermore, Sandro and Sigurdsson couldn't pass the ball to eachother. Maybe you do?

Saab Ed wrote: »

Decides to defend that slender lead by reverting to the formula that failed us for most of the game.

I'll give you this one, although Harry lost the same game 2-1 last season.

Saab Ed wrote: »

Amazingly does this by putting on thud, a player who was all but gone from the club last night.

Hudd has being training with the sqaud for the last two months, he understands the role. If he cast him to the reserves you'd be saying he's isolating key players. He said to Hudd go prove yourself.. Who would you have brought on?

Again, nothing personal meant.

Saab Ed

Leinster, give me your reason why he should have been given the job in the first place and what you see him doing at the moment that constitutes worthiness in your opinion that he should be given time ?

Not generalizations either please, your own ,honest opinion.

Leinstersqspur

Saab Ed wrote: »

Leinster, give me your reason why he should have been given the job in the first place and what you see him doing at the moment that constitutes worthiness in your opinion that he should be given time ?

Not generalizations either please, your own ,honest opinion.

His record at Porto, his willingness to cut players on their fitness and ability rather than their reputation, his tactical nous and the fact that my missus thinks he's devilishly handsome ergo I get to watch a lot more football in the front room...

What's your reason for judging him so negatively (other than the conclusions you drew in the previous post which I and others tried to suggest we're inaccurate) and were you as pessimistic when Juande Ramos was announced as manager, even though he could barely speak a word of English?

Hatch99

I read the first post and was tempted to delete the thread, but why should I, it's a Tottenham forum so work away. Beggars belief that our own fans are hounding the man out after 3 games...go ahead and post away, I'm having nothing to do with it.

bradolf pittler

Can't believe the media pressure that AVB is under already,Fan pressure too.it's ridiculous to think a new manager with new ideas and a new system of play would bring instant success.The guy needs time and the support of the fans to make the changes needed to make the team consistant in the CL for years to come.All the Redknapp lovers should leave their misgivings at the turnstiles and get over the fact he's gone...he blew it at the end of last season,it cost him his job and hes not coming back!
Brendan Rodgers' Liverpool are in the same boat,yet to win in the league,a new system of playing yet i don't see anyone in the media talking about him being under the kosh!!!!!!...'Arrys pals in the media seem to have the knifes out for AVB already and some of us are buying into it.Time to stop reading the bloggers on newsnow and get behind AVB before he's hounded out of the club before he even starts the rebuilding job that he was brought in to do.

mushykeogh

Harry got us 4th, 5th and 4th, and got no end of slatings. AVB hasnt won a game yet are we not entitled to be critical, we were defensively at sea against wba and norwich,and played brutal on saturday, he is continuing in the exact same vein of form as his time at chelsea, not unreasonable for people to voice their opinions or concerns.

As for Arrys pals in media having their knifes out for him? Jesus Christ.

bradolf pittler

mushykeogh wrote: »

Harry got us 4th, 5th and 4th, and got no end of slatings. AVB hasnt won a game yet are we not entitled to be critical, we were defensively at sea against wba and norwich,and played brutal on saturday, he is continuing in the exact same vein of form as his time at chelsea, not unreasonable for people to voice their opinions or concerns.

As for Arrys pals in media having their knifes out for him? Jesus Christ.

Maybe you havn't noticed but we've been brutal since febuary,since 'Arry started fapping around the england job and took his eye off the job in hand.Yes our final league position has been good but who's to say that given a chance AVB wont do the same?or better even?

Saab Ed

Firstly I don't believe his tactical ability is all its cracked up to be. Here's the Portuguese premier league for last season and guess who won it by losing only 1 (oh yes, an entire 1 match ) all season ! Yup , you've guessed it.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%9312_Primeira_Liga#section_2

Winning Portugal is like winning Scotland. It's not even in the same ball park as England or Germany nevermind Holland or France either.

The reason he got his break is simply because everybody thought he was the second Jose. That is the real reason he got offered a job that, without this comparison, he would never have been considered. If he had have won the dutch league let's say, and then went on to win the Europa league, I can 100% guarantee you he wouldn't have even turned up on the radar for the chelsea job. Ah yes, his time at chelsea.....

His time at chelsea, while far from ideal, can still really be the only time judgement can be made on his abilities. Oh this record his abilities proved to be very limited and he failed dismally. His team selections were bizzare, his changes from week to week were equally bizzare, his changes during the game never worked and slowly the players lost respect for him. He had a terrible manner about him and he was found out. The reason our supporters were turning on him already wasn't because of the 3 previous results alone. It's because, thanks to his time at chelsea, we've seen it all before and he's at the very same thing again. We have the luxury of knowing how badly he can screw up. That's the reason fans have turned against him
already.

DiMatteo didn't revolutionize chelsea when he took over, he just did the blinding obvious thing to do and hey presto it worked. Chelsea, after 6 months under AVB and getting used to his system, were actually plummeting, they were getting worse not better.

Lads I get the fact that you're backing the manager, giving him the time and a chance to impose his methods, its the done thing as a fan. I just stand by my view that , given his dismal run at chelsea, he really shouldn't have been given the job at all. I'm not turning on him, I just never turned his way from the start.

Leinstersqspur

Following the 5-1 demolition of Newcastle at home in Mid-February Spurs won only three of the remaining thirteen matches.

AVB's bad form or Tottenhams?

Saab Ed

Leinstersqspur wrote: »

Following the 5-1 demolition of Newcastle at home in Mid-February Spurs won only three of the remaining thirteen matches.

AVB's bad form or Tottenhams?

No that was arrys fault. Don't get the link though!

Harry, the England job and the Champions League fcuk up will go down as one of those unfortunate and typically cack handed events that litter our recent history.
If the England job never came up then we'd most likely not be having this conversation, arry would still be in charge and we would most likely be looking forward to our first CL game.

Arry fcuked up, badly. He fudged , his mind left the building. He took that job before it was never offered to him. Major mess up and seriously disrespectful to a club who backed him through a Cock of a court case and to fans, who despite him and us never being properly endeared to each other, sang his name from the terraces in Liverpool during his absence.

My own opinion , id have given him another chance once the England job was filled. He did bring us as close as we've ever been to success recently. That said I was far from surprised he got the chop.

My own choice as a replacement was Martinez. There's a guy who's cut his teeth in England and is only just waiting to build a dynasty somewhere.

Saab Ed

Funny that we're talking about AVB and his dominance of Portugal. Well this evening another part of the AVB jigsaw that brought that Portuguese dominance has been moved on too, yet again found out by the premier league.

http://www.chelseafc.com/news-article/article/2909772/title/meireles-departs-for-turkey

MrKingsley

Saab Ed wrote: »

Winning Portugal is like winning Scotland. It's not even in the same ball park as England or Germany nevermind Holland or France either.

His time at chelsea, while far from ideal, can still really be the only time judgement can be made on his abilities. Oh this record his abilities proved to be very limited and he failed dismally.

Ive been humming and hawwing about whether to bother posting here or not but this post really made my mind up.

Winning portugal is like winning scotland? Load of bull in my opinion. The top 3 teams in portugal would give any of the top 4/5 english teams a good game and mop the floor with the rest in my opinion. After the top 3 they and generally still better technical players and the league is a higher standard of football in my opinion.

The second point just irritates me. Just because you dont value the portuguese league that means that his considerable achievements there mean nothing? As ive said on here before he was asked to do a job at chelsea. When he tried to do it the senior players got annoyed and wouldnt play for him.

Give him a chance please. Even if the next 6/7 months is a disaster (which i dont think it will be) ill happily give him a whole season at the very least to impose his style

mushykeogh

bradolf pittler wrote: »

Maybe you havn't noticed but we've been brutal since febuary,since 'Arry started fapping around the england job and took his eye off the job in hand.Yes our final league position has been good but who's to say that given a chance AVB wont do the same?or better even?

And who is to say that Harry wouldnt have invested wisely in the summer and started with a new passion from the job and got us 9 points from 9? Its all speculation, but saturday was awful, we have conceded late equalisers in the last two games and look pretty clueless.

Whether we like it or not, he doesnt have the luxury of time, someone tell me how long to we give him? six games, six months?. Whatever about playing well, he needs to win, and soon.

Based solely on his previous experience in the Premier league, i was skeptical about his appointment, win against Reading and QPR and il be feeling a lot more confident. The premier league is ruthless, he needs wins, will Levy be happy with a season of rebuilding? Doubt it.

mickman

Article this morning quoting deschamps saying that lloris wasnt happy with avb's comments about brad staying number 1.

Interesting to see what will happen now, will avb fold and hand the jersey to lloris or will he keep faith with brad

I think the next game is crucial. An away game against a poor side, if we draw or lose then avb will be under massive pressure. If we win then it should lift ( a bit)

Dublin Spur

it's obvious he has a clue, and I think he could be good if he's given the time to do it.

but in the crazy world of the premier league don't be surprised if he's gone before christmas, Levy has form in this area, just ask Hoddle, Santini, Jol and Ramos.

Hatch99

Dublin Spur wrote: »

it's obvious he has a clue, and I think he could be good if he's given the time to do it.

but in the crazy world of the premier league don't be surprised if he's gone before christmas, Levy has form in this area, just ask Hoddle, Santini, Jol and Ramos.

If so, Levy should be gone with him...

BERBA

This thread makes me laugh, 3 games in only!!!. AVB has my 100% backing. Given time he will get it right.

He's got to get rid of Livermore though , what was he doing for that free that led to equalizer on sat.
Harry would have been out the door of spurs lodge friday night giving sky updates on moutinho....glad i didnt have to see that.

AVB is the way forward.

Leinstersqspur

Saab Ed wrote: »

Funny that we're talking about AVB and his dominance of Portugal. Well this evening another part of the AVB jigsaw that brought that Portuguese dominance has been moved on too, yet again found out by the premier league.

You're making it up as you go along mate, Meireles left Porto for Liverpool before AVB took over...

Also, he replaced Meireles with Moutinho...

Leinstersqspur

mickman wrote: »

Interesting to see what will happen now, will avb fold and hand the jersey to lloris or will he keep faith with brad

I've a feeling Brad will stay in for the Reading (away) game but Lloris will be put in for the QPR (home) game. I posted on the Norwich game thread an analysis of the qualities that Lloris brings to the team.

PogMoThoin

Can a mod delete this thread, we've had 3 games under AVB, give the man a chance FFS.