The AVB Thread

Kiith

I'll admit that I'm disappointed...but not in our new manager.

Disappointed with our start, as we'd all hoped that we would kick off the season with a good run of form, given the teams that we're up against.
Disappointed with the media, as they will use every opportunity to highlight AVB's time at Chelsea as reasons why he'll fail here.

But most of all disappointed in the fans. We would laugh at any other set of fans who booed their new manager for getting 2 points in 3 games. It's been 3 games ffs. There are certain people who didn't agree with the appointment, that's fair enough. But you have to at least give him a chance to prove himself. That's not possible after 3 games. As far as i'm concerned, he has the season to show that there has been an improvement. That's not an improvement on 4th mind you, it's an improvement on the disaster of the 2nd half of last season, and an improvement in our prospects.

We all said at the start of the season that he needs to be given time.

Well, he needs to be given time.

mickman

"Harry would have been out the door of spurs lodge friday night giving sky updates on moutinho....glad i didnt have to see that."

I would have preffered to know what was going on :-)

Bodie Doyle

The more I think about it the more I feel sorry for Avb . He has an idea on how to set up his team, formations, players etc. When he signed on in the summer I am sure Levy gave him assurances that he had funds to chase his transfer targets. The entire world knew that Modric was leaving and everyone also knew AVB wanted Moutinho as his replacement. Levy f**ked it up. Simple.
Now here we are with the transfer window closed left with some good players coming in but with our 2 most creative players leaving. The one guy the manager really wanted/needed to build his team around is still in Porto because Levy did not cough up again.
If it all goes wrong for AVB (and I really hope it does not) then Levy has to go too.

Dublin Spur

Bodie Doyle wrote: »

The more I think about it the more I feel sorry for Avb . He has an idea on how to set up his team, formations, players etc. When he signed on in the summer I am sure Levy gave him assurances that he had funds to chase his transfer targets. The entire world knew that Modric was leaving and everyone also knew AVB wanted Moutinho as his replacement. Levy f**ked it up. Simple.
Now here we are with the transfer window closed left with some good players coming in but with our 2 most creative players leaving. The one guy the manager really wanted/needed to build his team around is still in Porto because Levy did not cough up again.
If it all goes wrong for AVB (and I really hope it does not) then Levy has to go too.

Agreed, but you know he won't.

He's the chairman of an investment company and he is ensures that the company makes money, therefore he is doing his primary job well.

Success for the football club is secondary, THFC is just a vehicle to make the ENIC boys wealthier.

Cianan2

Is it true he has already fallen out with Lloris?

Kiith

It sounds more like Deschamps talking out of his ass then anything else.

Deschamps wrote:

Hugo has not appreciated the statements of his coach. I am not going to create a problem that I do not need today. But if it were to happen then it would need some consideration.

If you're not going to create a problem, then shut the **** up and don't create a problem.

Saab Ed

Leinstersqspur wrote: »

Saab Ed wrote: »

Funny that we're talking about AVB and his dominance of Portugal. Well this evening another part of the AVB jigsaw that brought that Portuguese dominance has been moved on too, yet again found out by the premier league.

You're making it up as you go along mate, Meireles left Porto for Liverpool before AVB took over...
.

So meireles didnt leave Liverpool on deadline day to join up with AVB at chelsea then, no!

What's with the tone in here guys. Bit of a private club or is it okay to disagree with the herd ! A mod wanted to close this thread initially and another poster calling for it to be locked up.

Kiith

It's okay to disagree the rest of us (in fact i'd say it's encouraged), but it just seems like you've made up your mind without giving him a fair (any?) chance. He's had 3 competitive games in charge. In 10-15 games, we might all agree that he was the wrong choice, but at least we'll have let him have a shot.

The last thing he needs is the fans on his back. Give him a chance i'd say.

Leinstersqspur

Saab Ed wrote: »

So meireles didnt leave Liverpool on deadline day to join up with AVB at chelsea then, no!

What's with the tone in here guys. Bit of a private club or is it okay to disagree with the herd ! A mod wanted to close this thread initially and another poster calling for it to be locked up.

You said "well this evening another part of the AVB jigsaw that brought that Portuguese dominance has been moved on too" thats incorrect, they weren't there at the same time, he replaced Merieles with Moutinho..

I wouldn't take it personally. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion which is why I'm sure the mod said he wouldn't close the thread. I think the title of this thread sounds like an unnecessary witch-hunt and there's already a 'good luck to the new manager thread'...

bradolf pittler

Ridiculous statement from Deshamps,Lloris hasn't even had a training session with Tottenham yet!!!!!
I expect his 1st start will be against Lazio then again the following week v Carlisle in the league cup,lets see how he copes with those 2 games.if he does well then of course he's entitled to think he should become 1st choice but 1st things 1st...he has to earn it!

Hatch99

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Can a mod delete this thread, we've had 3 games under AVB, give the man a chance FFS.

We are all Spurs fans...so no I'll leave it open for those who want our new manager sacked after 3 games :rolleyes:

Hatch99

Saab Ed wrote: »

So meireles didnt leave Liverpool on deadline day to join up with AVB at chelsea then, no!

What's with the tone in here guys. Bit of a private club or is it okay to disagree with the herd ! A mod wanted to close this thread initially and another poster calling for it to be locked up.

What are you talking about ? I posted my opinion, which in my book I am allowed to do. Has the thread been closed or locked, NO, so get on with it and stop whinging.

tomo75

Well, I kinda laugh at all the knee jerk reactions after 3 games. Lets look at a few 'What if's':
1 - Harry got the England job in Feb. Who would we have got to replace him? A high profile manager to take us to the next level. Had AVB not been at Chelski he would have been the first on everyones lips. Why, cos he was doing good things with Porto. Better managers than AVB have and will go to Chelski and get sacked. Ancelotti is a superb manager, (IMO), and he got the sack for giving Chelski a league and FA Cup in the 1 year!
2 - Harry didn't get the sack and we were 2 points from 3 games. This would have been a spill over from the '3 wins in 13' run from last season. What would we be saying about Harry now? Sack him cos he has lost the dressing room???
3 - Fergie got sacked at UTD in his early years.......

I am backing AVB 100%. I have followed Tottenham for far too long not to at least give him 1 year to get his style in order. If there are poor performances along the way with some stellar ones then so be it.

Antisocialiser

Ormus

Kiith wrote: »

I'll admit that I'm disappointed...but not in our new manager.

Disappointed with our start, as we'd all hoped that we would kick off the season with a good run of form, given the teams that we're up against.
Disappointed with the media, as they will use every opportunity to highlight AVB's time at Chelsea as reasons why he'll fail here.

But most of all disappointed in the fans. We would laugh at any other set of fans who booed their new manager for getting 2 points in 3 games. It's been 3 games ffs. There are certain people who didn't agree with the appointment, that's fair enough. But you have to at least give him a chance to prove himself. That's not possible after 3 games. As far as i'm concerned, he has the season to show that there has been an improvement. That's not an improvement on 4th mind you, it's an improvement on the disaster of the 2nd half of last season, and an improvement in our prospects.

We all said at the start of the season that he needs to be given time.

Well, he needs to be given time.

Very well said Kiith, this thread is pathetic and the booing by our "supporters" was pathetic on Saturday. Makes our fans look like spoilt kids.

He is a new, young, long term manager. He is not gonna be fired. So you can either get behind him and the team, or become part of the problem.

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

it's obvious he has a clue, and I think he could be good if he's given the time to do it.

but in the crazy world of the premier league don't be surprised if he's gone before christmas, Levy has form in this area, just ask Hoddle, Santini, Jol and Ramos.

Yes but Hoddle was given 2 and a half years, Santini quit, Jol was given almost 3 years, and Ramos 1 year.

Levy may not be afraid to pull the trigger early in a season if things are going disastrously, but only after giving managers a chance, and never in their first season.

oregano

I'm seeing a lot of blame apportioned to Levy for hiring AVB, and for not getting Moutinho, and perhaps some of it fair. I'm seeing blame going to AVB, for not starting us galloping out the traps.

Just what does Tim Sherwood do?

KingdomYid

Ormus wrote: »

Yes but Hoddle was given 2 and a half years, Santini quit, Jol was given almost 3 years, and Ramos 1 year.

Levy may not be afraid to pull the trigger early in a season if things are going disastrously, but only after giving managers a chance, and never in their first season.

A fair enough point. I think AVB will get the season at least to prove himself.

Dublin Spur

Ormus wrote: »

Yes but Hoddle was given 2 and a half years, Santini quit, Jol was given almost 3 years, and Ramos 1 year.

Levy may not be afraid to pull the trigger early in a season if things are going disastrously, but only after giving managers a chance, and never in their first season.

the one thing you won't get with Levy is time, 8 managers in 12 years is evidence enough of this

Most of his hirings have been panic appointments because he made the wrong appointment in the first place.

I hope AVB gets a fair crack of the whip from Levy, but history tells us he won't, Managers under Levy have lasted 1.5 seasons on average.

BERBA

Dublin Spur wrote: »

the one thing you won't get with Levy is time, 8 managers in 12 years is evidence enough of this

Most of his hirings have been panic appointments because he made the wrong appointment in the first place.

I hope AVB gets a fair crack of the whip from Levy, but history tells us he won't, Managers under Levy have lasted 1.5 seasons on average.

I love your Levy bashing Dub Spur.....Not!!

All 19 of the other premier league teams would love Levy at the helm. Pop in to the pool super thread , they worship Levy in there.

In Levy i mean God we trust.

philon

http://www.spursfanatic.com/player-analysis/positive-progression-andre-villas-boas/#.UEURlFYnARE.twitter


8 positive points of progression under Andre Villas-Boas

By Spurs Fanatic - Mark on September 3, 2012 in Player Analysis

It’s not been the easiest of starts for Andre Villas-Boas at Spurs. After two points from our first three Premier League matches, the media seem out to get him once again and a few of the fans are booing already.

The results may not have been there, but what of the actual performances on the pitch?

Here are eight positive points of progression for Spurs under the guidance of Andre Villas-Boas.

1. Possession

Andre Villas-Boas had Chelsea as the team enjoying the highest amount of possession in the Premier League during his time there with 60% per match.

AVB subscribes to the philosophy that if you have the ball, the other team does not and therefore cannot hurt you. He wants his side to retain possession and probe the opposition by moving it around looking to attack weaknesses in their defence.

In his three matches in charge of Spurs, the team is enjoying 56% possession. This is a good sign that we are controlling the ball and the players are understanding what the coach wants from them.

2. Passing accuracy

To keep possession, you need to make accurate passes to avoid turning the ball over.

Last season under Harry Redknapp, we were completing 83% of passes as a team, this season under Andre Villas-Boas, we are completing 85% of passes. Another sign that the players are getting to grips with what the gaffer wants.

3. Chances created

The goals may not have been free flowing, but the chances have been there for us so far.

Through our first three Premier League matches, we’ve created 39 chances in total, only Everton with 41 have created more this season.

Of these 39 chances created, 11 were at Newcastle, 16 at home to West Brom and 12 against Norwich.

Our opponents have made 22 chances in these matches. Newcastle created just 2 against us, West Brom 10 and Norwich 10 also.

That’s +17 in the chances created department in just three matches so far, which means we need to be more clinical in front of goal. Maybe the reason we signed Clint Dempsey?

4. A balanced attack under Andre Villas-Boas

Zonal marking produced this excellent piece of analysis on attack sides, highlighting what separates the top teams in the Premier League from the lower ones is balance.

Under Harry Redknapp, Spurs favoured attacking down Gareth Bale’s left flank 38% of the time. Aaron Lennon’s right wing was the focus of 32% of the forays forward, with the remaining 30% going down the centre.

Spurs under Andre Villas-Boas have been slightly better balanced and have focussed more to the right, with 36% of the attacks going to this side. The other attacks have gone 32% to the left and 31% up the middle.

Retaining possession and probing the opposition has the effect of creating a more balanced attack, rather than looking more often than not to Gareth Bale.

Favouring the left so heavily highlighted Harry Redknapp’s emphasis on individuals over Andre Villas-Boas who is a systems and tactics based manager.

5. Better pressing

Andre Villas-Boas is famed for his pressing of the opposition and his high-line came in for much scrutiny when deployed at Chelsea.

With Spurs, we have seen some signs of pressing the opposition up the pitch, but this has mainly been in wide areas against the full backs.

In our last game with Norwich, we started to see some more pressure applied to the centre backs. This was highlighted by the increased number of interceptions up the field in the match, as well as a lower pass completion percentage by defenders being rushed in to getting rid of the ball.


Spurs forced interceptions in the Norwich half and errors from their central defenders.

6. Moussa Dembele bridges the gap

So far, Andre Villas-Boas has gone with Jake Livermore and Sandro at the base of his 4-2-3-1 system and a gap has existed between them and the more attack-minded players.


Spurs 1 Norwich 1: average position of Spurs starting players.

Moussa Dembele has only played 45 minutes in a Spurs shirt, but has already filled that gap and given us a sign of what we can expect to see from him this season.


Spurs 1 Norwich 1: Moussa Dembele fills the void to link the midfield and attack.

His passing is short, precise and has a sense of purpose to it, moving the ball forward rather than backward. He also retains possession, as his 89% pass completion last season at Fulham highlights.

Moussa Dembele may well prove to be the most important player we’ve signed this season in the wake of Luka Modric’s departure.

7. The form of Jan Vertonghen

With the retirement of Ledley King, we were in the market for a new rock at the back and Jan Vertonghen has impressed since arriving at the Lane.

Debate has arisen over who should partner the Belgian at the back, but Vertonghen has put in a couple of good performances so far.

So far he has won 86% of his aerial duels and been 100% on his ground tackling, whilst also intercepting the ball, highlighting how well he reads the game.


Jan Vertonghen makes tackles (crosses), interceptions (diamonds) and clearances (circles).

8. New players to come in for Andre Villas-Boas

Moussa Dembele wasn’t the only player to come in at the transfer deadline. Hugo Lloris arrived from Lyon and Clint Dempsey from Fulham.

Lloris will add the agile ‘sweeper keeper’ that we need in order to play Andre Villas-Boas’ high line and his distribution with the ball is good.


Hugo Lloris had good distribution whilst at Lyon.

Brad Friedel, while steady and reliable between the sticks, isn’t able to rush off his line anymore to deal with any danger over the top.

As well as this, other than passing out to his defenders, his distribution is also not that good anymore.


Brad Friedel struggles with his kicking downfield.

At the other end of the pitch, Clint Dempsey will bring goals to the side that have been sadly lacking from the chances we have created so far. The American provided 17 goals in the Premier League last season from a shot at the target every 24 minutes. We need a second scorer behind Emmanuel Adebayor and Dempsey will be that man.

The positive signs are there that the team are coming around to what Andre Villas-Boas wants from them, and that they are settling in to his system.

It was never going to be easy to switch from Harry Redknapp’s emphasis on individuals, to Andre Villas-Boas’ stressing the importance of the system and the team. We really have gone from one end of the scale to the other in terms of how the manager drills his squad and it’s going to take some time to get used to.

With the new faces to come in to the line-up, the results for Andre Villas-Boas and for Spurs are just around the corner. Patience is key.

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

the one thing you won't get with Levy is time, 8 managers in 12 years is evidence enough of this

Most of his hirings have been panic appointments because he made the wrong appointment in the first place.

I hope AVB gets a fair crack of the whip from Levy, but history tells us he won't, Managers under Levy have lasted 1.5 seasons on average.

Lies.

Apart from Ramos, name me one Spurs manager under Levy who has been fired after less than 2 seasons?

And no using caretaker managers to sneakily pad out your stats.

yidweiser

By all accounts, all was possibly done to complete the Moutinho deal.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/sep/04/tottenham-hotspur-joao-moutinho

SuprSi

yidweiser wrote: »

By all accounts, all was possibly done to complete the Moutinho deal.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/sep/04/tottenham-hotspur-joao-moutinho

Still, the argument could still be made that they a) should have known about this beforehand and sorted it early and b) not left the entire transfer until the last few hours of the window. It's very disappointing that he didn't come - he would have transformed this window from a pretty good one to a superb one. I wonder, now that Hulk is gone, if Porto will be so eager to do business with us again seeing as they may not need the money? Was that Spurs last chance to buy Moutinho or can we go back again in January?

mickman

well porto are a selling club so we could do the deal in january.

I agree, its bitterly disappointing that it couldnt be completed and it was very nieve and unprofessional on levys part not to have known the full details on the deal in advance.

Ormus will disagree of course but surely levy has enough experience in transfers to request " a full detailed list of all parties involved in moutinho" before waiting till 10:55 pm

Kiith

It should have been done earlier, but any deal that involves a 3rd party agent is going to run into trouble. They really should not be allowed anywhere in the game, and the concept of them owning a percentage of a player is absolutely stupid.

SuprSi

Kiith wrote: »

It should have been done earlier, but any deal that involves a 3rd party agent is going to run into trouble. They really should not be allowed anywhere in the game, and the concept of them owning a percentage of a player is absolutely stupid.

I agree. I'm not sure how this practice is legal yet something like a wage cap isn't? How can a business or investor 'own' part of a player?

Dublin Spur

Ormus wrote: »

Lies.

Apart from Ramos, name me one Spurs manager under Levy who has been fired after less than 2 seasons?

And no using caretaker managers to sneakily pad out your stats.

Lies

1. Graham (1 month)
2. Hoddle (2.5yrs)
3. Pleat (9 months)
4. Santini (3 months)
5. Jol (3 yrs)
6. Ramos (1 yr)
7. Redknapp (3.5 yrs)
8. AVB (2 mths to date)

that's 8 managers in 11.5 years is an average length of 1.44 yrs per manager

in relation to padding out the figures with Caretakers, Pleat was a caretaker for longer than Santini was a manager so I think he should get included, but you won't find any reference to Clive Allen or Chris Hughton who stepped in for a few games here and there.

The funny thing about Pleats Caretakership for me is that after spending 9 months searching the football world for Hoddle's replacement, Levy ends up appointing a bloke with no English who ends up lasting less than 10 games, if that's not clueless I don't know what is, he took his time, he didn't rush it and yet he still managered to make a complete mess of it.

But you think he's great and that's good for you, I am just presenting an alternative view

Ormus

mickman wrote: »

well porto are a selling club so we could do the deal in january.

I agree, its bitterly disappointing that it couldnt be completed and it was very nieve and unprofessional on levys part not to have known the full details on the deal in advance.

Ormus will disagree of course but surely levy has enough experience in transfers to request " a full detailed list of all parties involved in moutinho" before waiting till 10:55 pm

Thanks Mickman, well first of all, where does it say that Levy was, at any stage, unaware of the 3rd party? I think you're reading into things that aren't there.

Secondly, I would be very surprised if any chairman has ever requested a list of parties involved in a player. It would be taken for granted that there was only ever one party involved, and if that was not the case, it would be in Porto's interests to disclose any abnormalities.

That said, I do agree that such a massive transfer should not have been left til the last minute like that. Thankfully we missed out on paying £22m for a player who isn't that good in a position we don't need.

Dublin Spur

BERBA wrote: »

I love your Levy bashing Dub Spur.....Not!!

All 19 of the other premier league teams would love Levy at the helm. Pop in to the pool super thread , they worship Levy in there.

In Levy i mean God we trust.

I imagine other clubs boards would fancy Levy as he will make them money

However I can't see why any supporters would get excited

The profits get banked and the trophy cabinet stays empty