The AVB Thread

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

Lies

1. Graham (1 month)
2. Hoddle (2.5yrs)
3. Pleat (9 months)
4. Santini (3 months)
5. Jol (3 yrs)
6. Ramos (1 yr)
7. Redknapp (3.5 yrs)
8. AVB (2 mths to date)

that's 8 managers in 11.5 years is an average length of 1.44 yrs per manager

in relation to padding out the figures with Caretakers, Pleat was a caretaker for longer than Santini was a manager so I think he should get included, but you won't find any reference to Clive Allen or Chris Hughton who stepped in for a few games here and there.

The funny thing about Pleats Caretakership for me is that after spending 9 months searching the football world for Hoddle's replacement, Levy ends up appointing a bloke with no English who ends up lasting less than 10 games, if that's not clueless I don't know what is, he took his time, he didn't rush it and yet he still managered to make a complete mess of it.

But you think he's great and that's good for you, I am just presenting an alternative view

But your alternative view is dishonest.

Graham was in charge of Spurs for 2.5 years
Pleat was never permanent manager under Levy and was never portrayed as such.
Santini was not fired, he resigned.

So apart from AVB, who has only just arrived, and Santini, who resigned after 1 month, Levy has only appointed 4 managers in 12 years.

Another way of saying it is that, apart from Ramos, he has never given a manager less than 2.5 years to make a go of things. In this day and age of managerial comings and goings, that's pretty exceptional. Only United, Arsenal and Everton have shown more faith in their managers.

You previously stated that he "hired and fired 8 managers in 12 years". You know full well that you're lying. You include managers he didn't hire (Graham and Pleat) and managers that he hasn't fired (Santini and AVB). Poor form.

Leinstersqspur

Dublin Spur wrote: »

I imagine other clubs boards would fancy Levy as he will make them money

However I can't see why any supporters would get excited

The profits get banked and the trophy cabinet stays empty

So who funded the £45m world class training facility?

I'm as frustrated as anyone by the continuous lack of that 'marquee signing' however the club is still making progress..

Dublin Spur

Ormus wrote: »

But your alternative view is dishonest.

Graham was in charge of Spurs for 2.5 years
Pleat was never permanent manager under Levy and was never portrayed as such.
Santini was not fired, he resigned.

So apart from AVB, who has only just arrived, and Santini, who resigned after 1 month, Levy has only appointed 4 managers in 12 years.

Another way of saying it is that, apart from Ramos, he has never given a manager less than 2.5 years to make a go of things. In this day and age of managerial comings and goings, that's pretty exceptional. Only United, Arsenal and Everton have shown more faith in their managers.

You previously stated that he "hired and fired 8 managers in 12 years". You know full well that you're lying. You include managers he didn't hire (Graham and Pleat) and managers that he hasn't fired (Santini and AVB). Poor form.

But Levy did hire or fired 8 man in 11.5 years. Okay so he's hired 7 and fired 7 (hired and fired 8), I think you're splitting hairs here on whether it's 7 or 8 doesn't really matter,

The amount of appintments and sackings during he tenure is a disgrace. So for all this messing about we landed 1 cup and had 1 go at the CL, a very very poor return 12 years work in my view.

He clearly has no clue on picking the right man for the job. Just look at the year long farce between sacking Holldle and Santini coming in, than promptly going again. The one he got most right was Harry and that was a panic appointment with Spurs bottom of the table in October 08 after another disasterous appointment by Levy.

George Graham may have been at Spurs for 2.5 years but under Levy he got about 1 month. And that's the point, it not how long the manager was at Spurs it's how long Levy game him. In his 2.5 years Greham delivered a trophy and European football but Levy got rid within 1 month. I would also argue that sacking Graham with Spurs in an FC cup semi-final proved to be a very poor decision.

If you think Santini walked out the door and waived good bye to the value of his remaining contract I think your are very deluded. To get his money he would have had to be sacked or come to a severance arrangement. At best Santini leaving was mutual concent, either way he was another rubbish appointment that followed a 12 month serch for "the right man"

mickman

but he is that good and is in a position that we need

Dublin Spur

Leinstersqspur wrote: »

So who funded the £45m world class training facility?

I'm as frustrated as anyone by the continuous lack of that 'marquee signing' however the club is still making progress..

I have to admint I can't get excited by new training facilities

Progress is very subjective, it depends how you measure it.

Trophies = 1
CL = Once
Europa = 4 times
Average League finishing position has improved in the last 5 yrs

Our biggest step forward was CL qualification in 2010, this was the moment for the club to kick on and move up a level, ENIC did very little while our direct competitiion invested heavily. This was their single biggest crime in my view.

Up to then I was pretty much on the fance with ENIC and Levy, But that summer was when I knew for sure that their main aim was not to deliver long term sucess for Tottenham Hotspur, the football club is just a vehicle to make them wealthier.

Dublin Spur

mickman wrote: »

but he is that good and is in a position that we need

I think he's doing very well as the chairman of an investment company

I think he's doing quite poorly as the chairman of a football club

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

But Levy did hire or fired 8 man in 11.5 years. Okay so he's hired 7 and fired 7 (hired and fired 8), I think you're splitting hairs here on whether it's 7 or 8 doesn't really matter,

The amount of appintments and sackings during he tenure is a disgrace. So for all this messing about we landed 1 cup and had 1 go at the CL, a very very poor return 12 years work in my view.

He clearly has no clue on picking the right man for the job. Just look at the year long farce between sacking Holldle and Santini coming in, than promptly going again. The one he got most right was Harry and that was a panic appointment with Spurs bottom of the table in October 08 after another disasterous appointment by Levy.

George Graham may have been at Spurs for 2.5 years but under Levy he got about 1 month. And that's the point, it not how long the manager was at Spurs it's how long Levy game him. In his 2.5 years Greham delivered a trophy and European football but Levy got rid within 1 month. I would also argue that sacking Graham with Spurs in an FC cup semi-final proved to be a very poor decision.

If you think Santini walked out the door and waived good bye to the value of his remaining contract I think your are very deluded. To get his money he would have had to be sacked or come to a severance arrangement. At best Santini leaving was mutual concent, either way he was another rubbish appointment that followed a 12 month serch for "the right man"

Haha, oh so it's hired OR fired now is it? And you're still including caretaker managers. And I'm the deluded one. I'm starting to think you might be a troll from the Arsenal forum, it would actually make more sense.

He has hired AND fired 4 managers in 12 years. Fact.

SuprSi

Dublin Spur, were you not happy when Hoddle was signed? Santini? Ramos? I know I was. When Levy came onboard and did everything to get Hoddle, I was delighted that he had listened to the fans and got a club legend back at the helm. Santini? A relatively reputable French International manager - was I happy? Too right I was. Sure he couldn't speak the language but if he was good enough to manage France he was good enough to manage Spurs.

Ramos? You betcha. Did great with Sevilla. After Jol was sacked, every Spurs fan I knew wanted him at the club. Levy duly obliged.

The point is, although he has hired quite a few managers, can you honestly say that at the time they were hired, you weren't happy with the appointments? As I said previously, out of all the managers in the last decade or so, the only one I wasn't originally behind was Harry!!

As I also said before, maybe Levy listened/listens too much to what the fans want and puts that ahead of what's maybe right for the club, wanting to appease the fans. Most fans wanted AVB (or Jose, but in fairness!) and who's now at the club?

He's not perfect, but he's had a steep learning curve and as far as I can see is improving all the time.

Dublin Spur

Ormus, it clear you are happy with Mr Levy

but the fact remains that during his 11.5 years Spurs he has had 8 different managers reporting to him up to and including AVB. You also seem to want to gloss over a lot of his disasterous appointment during this time.

So only Arsenal fans on a wind up would knock Levy ? I know pleanty of Spurs fans who are sick of him. By the way, I'd go easy on the accusations, you seem to be quite quick to make assumptions and name call, this is not a nice trait.

Regarding your reference to me being a gooner, yes I have been to Highbury and the Emirates but only ever in the away end with my own kind, I'd be interested to know how many times you've made the trip to the home of the old enemy ?

mickman

"I think he's doing very well as the chairman of an investment company

I think he's doing quite poorly as the chairman of a football club "

i was talking about moutinho, not levy :-)

Ormus

Dublin Spur wrote: »

Ormus, it clear you are happy with Mr Levy

but the fact remains that during his 11.5 years Spurs he has had 8 different managers reporting to him up to and including AVB. You also seem to want to gloss over a lot of his disasterous appointment during this time.

So only Arsenal fans on a wind up would knock Levy ? I know pleanty of Spurs fans who are sick of him. By the way, I'd go easy on the accusations, you seem to be quite quick to make assumptions and name call, this is not a nice trait.

Regarding your reference to me being a gooner, yes I have been to Highbury and the Emirates but only ever in the away end with my own kind, I'd be interested to know how many times you've made the trip to the home of the old enemy ?

Yeah but you were using Levy as the reason for all 8 of those managers being hired and fired. That's why you brought the stat up. And you're still including managers who Levy didn't hire and managers who Levy didn't fire. Do you understand? I don't know how else to explain it.

I completely agree that Santini and Ramos did turn out to be disastrous appointments, but the fans were generally optimistic at the time, myself included. Did you honestly condemn both those appointments at the time? Honestly now? If you say you did I will believe you, and say fair play.

Dublin Spur

Ormus wrote: »

Yeah but you were using Levy as the reason for all 8 of those managers being hired and fired. That's why you brought the stat up. And you're still including managers who Levy didn't hire and managers who Levy didn't fire. Do you understand? I don't know how else to explain it.

I completely agree that Santini and Ramos did turn out to be disastrous appointments, but the fans were generally optimistic at the time, myself included. Did you honestly condemn both those appointments at the time? Honestly now? If you say you did I will believe you, and say fair play.

I never condem an appointment when it's made, I just hope it's the right one.

Every new mgr gets a clean slate from me

yiddo59

SuprSi wrote: »

Dublin Spur, were you not happy when Hoddle was signed? Santini? Ramos? I know I was. When Levy came onboard and did everything to get Hoddle, I was delighted that he had listened to the fans and got a club legend back at the helm. Santini? A relatively reputable French International manager - was I happy? Too right I was. Sure he couldn't speak the language but if he was good enough to manage France he was good enough to manage Spurs.

Ramos? You betcha. Did great with Sevilla. After Jol was sacked, every Spurs fan I knew wanted him at the club. Levy duly obliged.

The point is, although he has hired quite a few managers, can you honestly say that at the time they were hired, you weren't happy with the appointments? As I said previously, out of all the managers in the last decade or so, the only one I wasn't originally behind was Harry!!

As I also said before, maybe Levy listened/listens too much to what the fans want and puts that ahead of what's maybe right for the club, wanting to appease the fans. Most fans wanted AVB (or Jose, but in fairness!) and who's now at the club?

He's not perfect, but he's had a steep learning curve and as far as I can see is improving all the time.

Really? I wanted AVB out of the list of people that were being mentioned Moyes, Rodgers etc. Best of a bad lot.
As for Levy and his chairmanship a case of a good chairman but not a great one.

WHL

Have a look back at the "AVB Deal To Be Completed Today"thread

Leinstersqspur made the following comment:
First season no less than 6th
Second season no less than 4th
Third season no less than 1st

Nobody argued - and rightly so. I stated later in the thread that I didn't agree with his appointment. I still don't but we MUST give him a chance. We have three major signings (Dembele, LLoris and Dempsey) that have played 45 minutes between them so far. The chairman didn't succeed in making the one signing that he really wanted. He is trying to install a new system. The last thing that he or the club needs is the supporters on his back after two games. He needs the comfort of knowing that he has this season to turn things around.

Give him a break and COYS

yiddo59

WHL wrote: »

Have a look back at the "AVB Deal To Be Completed Today"thread

Leinstersqspur made the following comment:
First season no less than 6th
Second season no less than 4th
Third season no less than 1st

Nobody argued - and rightly so. I stated later in the thread that I didn't agree with his appointment. I still don't but we MUST give him a chance. We have three major signings (Dembele, LLoris and Dempsey) that have played 45 minutes between them so far. The chairman didn't succeed in making the one signing that he really wanted. He is trying to install a new system. The last thing that he or the club needs is the supporters on his back after two games. He needs the comfort of knowing that he has this season to turn things around.

Give him a break and COYS

We have no option but to support him and give him a chance. What other choice do we have?
That said the last lad we had in charge got 4th 5th 4th in his 3 full seasons something we haven't done in over 18 years. Anything less than 4th this year is a backward step. Though I might accept 5th and an FA Cup
As for winning the premiership in 3 seasons with Levy at the helm? There's not a snowballs chance of that.

everdead.ie

Really dissapointing start to the season to be honest I've been hiding from everything hotspur since the draw but I'm really happy with AVB I really like what I see Vertoghen seems imperious but walker and Gallas have started the season poorly and it's resulted in two draws.

We'll be alright better than alright we just need a bit of luck and we will start firing on all cylinders.

Sugarlumps

A good CB partnership is needed, really hope Gallas doesn’t feature too often. Vertonghen number one and Dawson as number two, or Caulker. Hopefully things pick up and we’re playing some decent ball come January.

tippspur

I feel more optimistic after seeing this clip,we've signed some great players all the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXdIR9qvm2E

three of them can score from free kicks :cool:

aidodo

tippspur wrote: »

I feel more optimistic after seeing this clip,we've signed some great players all the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXdIR9qvm2E

three of them can score from free kicks :cool:

Thats cheered me right up. Vertongen has got some game for a centre half. he can smash a free kick just like Ronald Koeman too.

If this team clicks, they will very hard to beat.Some real quality there.

So many dead ball specialists now.

Leinstersqspur

Some serious tekkers on Vertonghen and Dembele... COYS!

yidweiser

If that doesn't warm the cockles, nothing will.
These have been great signings and when they gel under the new system it will be awesome.
We will hopefully demolish Reading and set us up nicely to take on Utd.
Great players know how to adapt to new systems.
I'm a lot more confident of what we can achieve in the coming year.

For me, if we can beat Arsenal with style and end their "our football is more superior" criticism of us and beat the likes of Utd and Chelsea in the coming season, that will be good enough for me.

PogMoThoin

yidweiser wrote: »

For me, if we can beat Arsenal with style and end their "our football is more superior" criticism of us and beat the likes of Utd and Chelsea in the coming season, that will be good enough for me.

Yeah, but Alex Ferguson realised long ago that you don't win the premiership by beating the top 4 teams, you win it by consistently beating all teams below that, your results against the top 4 then won't matter.

yidweiser

We are not at the same level as United and will not win the premiership.
These types of games will be an indicator of how we can further build for the following season.

PogMoThoin

yidweiser wrote: »

We are not at the same level as United and will not win the premiership.
These types of games will be an indicator of how we can further build for the following season.

I'd prefer to see us consistently beat the West Brom's and Norwich's for now. Lets learn to walk before we run, and certainly not throw away 1-0 leads.

Dalken

Why oh why did they hire the man!?? He just can't grasp the premier league. At least he won't be the first New Manager sacked this season that honour will go to Brenden Rodgers.

yidweiser

I think ye of little faith sums it up.
Your point is that AVB will continue to lose 1 nil leads and my point is after only 3 games that we will improve and surprise people this year.

PogMoThoin

yidweiser wrote: »

I think ye of little faith sums it up.
Your point is that AVB will continue to lose 1 nil leads and my point is after only 3 games that we will improve and surprise people this year.

Not at all, I have faith, I think this team needs time to gel. It's not unique to AVB, we squandered these leads last year too though. Alex Ferguson lost his first 2 games in charge of Man U. I'm happy with AVB, although I must admit I'm not seeing any tactics so far but I'm willing to give him the time to see what he can do, the season in fact.

Devo from Dublin

Great youtube clip...
Looking forward to FIFA 13 even more now!
COYS.

yidweiser

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Not at all, I have faith, I think this team needs time to gel. It's not unique to AVB, we squandered these leads last year too though. Alex Ferguson lost his first 2 games in charge of Man U. I'm happy with AVB, although I must admit I'm not seeing any tactics so far but I'm willing to give him the time to see what he can do, the season in fact.

Crossed wires on my behalf.
If everybody i.e players, fans, give AVB a chance, you never know what the power of positive thinking can achieve.
As my father says, "Fair play is good sport"

Hatch99

sssshhhhhhhhhhhhh