Army Reserve Disbanded on the quiet by the DoD over the weekend?

Irishman12

http://www.rdfra.ie/ Message to all members of RDFRA and all Reservists. It has come to our attention that the Military Authorities have made strident moves to shut down the RDF as and from 1st September 2012. RDFRA would advise all its members and all Reservists everywhere to contact their Unit Commanding Officers today in writing seeking written assurances from them that: 1. They will be facilitated in completing any remaining training hours needed to meet gratuity qualifying criteria by the end of the RDF training year 31st October 2012. (No one has consulted RDFRA regarding any changes to DFR R5 in relation to Gratuity Qualification Criteria or laid down time lines, Therefore 31st 2012 October remains the deadline for this activity) 2. They will be facilitated in completion of any outstanding annual range practise's needed to meet gratuity qualifying criteria by the end of RDF training year 31st October 2012. I would urge all reservists to seek such assurances in writing this week as many reservists have been instructed that a new deadline of this Friday 7th September is being imposed (which is not provided for in DFR R5). RDFRA would assure all of its members and all Reservists everywhere that any Reservists found to have been unfairly denied their gratuity payment for training year 2012 will have all of their cases pursued to a satisfactory conclusion. For and on behalf of the National Executive of RDFRA Tom Walsh General Secretary RDFRA UPDATE ABOUT EMERGENCY NATIONAL EXECUTIVE MEETING IN MULLINGAR ON SATURDAY 01 SEPTEMBER 2012 The National Executive of RDFRA convened an emergency meeting on Saturday 1st of September 2012 in Mullingar. The purpose of this meeting was to consider and analyse information which has come into our possession in relation to Admin Order 02/ 2012 Implementation of Defence Forces Re-Org Plan 2012. Feedback from RDF Units / personnel around the country is that no further RDF training is to take place after 01/09/2012. Some unit accounts have already been closed down which effectively means that they can no longer operate, train or do anything. Units / personnel have been instructed to commence compilation of end of training year data / records by the end of this week in order that gratuity claims may be processed. (With nothing processed after that date). RDF training year 2013 is not to commence on 1st November 2012 as would routinely be the case. General Secretary of RDFRA Tom Walsh met with Military C&A at 15:30hrs on Thursday 30th August last where he was assured by OIC Mil C&A that, RDF training was set to continue post September 1st 2012, there would be no issues with RDF personnel being facilitated in terms of processing / qualification for gratuity etc. However, given the clear intent of Admin Order 02 /2012 and the subsequent flurry of activity in relation to meeting its requirements, RDFRA believes that the evidence is irrefutable that the Military authorities are pre-empting any formal announcement of any decision on the future structure, shape and role of the RDF by withdrawing resource support from it and closing it down in advance of any formal announcement on our future. To that end RDFRA do not accept that assurances given to us at our meeting with Mil C&A last week. RDFRA would re-assure all of its members and all reservists everywhere that we will not accept this treatment at the hands of the Military Authorities and will fight this insult to our organisation with all means at our disposal. For and on behalf of the National Executive RDFRA Tom Walsh Gereral Secretary

Kosseegan

It would seem to be a logical follow-on from the re-organisation. Regular units will have to take over the training function.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/reserve-army-to-be-pulled-from-rural-areas-after-review-3173499.html

concussion

What is contained in Admin Order 02 /2012?
Have RDFRA contacted RDF O/C's to confirm any of this?
What was discussed at the emergency National Executive Meeting?
Why are Reservists being told to directly contact their O/C's, shouldn't we be using our chain of command?


This all sounds a bit panicked TBH. I dread to think what their FB page is like.

Manic Moran

I can't imagine that the Army is authorised to disband half its own force without some go-ahead from at least the Minister...

A little more info on the backstory is likely required. Concussion has hit the nail on the head.

Local-womanizer

Manic Moran wrote: »

I can't imagine that the Army is authorised to disband half its own force without some go-ahead from at least the Minister...

A little more info on the backstory is likely required. Concussion has hit the nail on the head.

Further in from this, is the Dail not out on break at the moment?

fenris

I think it is somewhere between a fsckup and flying a kite to see what level of reaction/protest will be created.

Big reaction and it will have been a "clerical error" and some reduced form of the disbandment happens, little reaction and the full disbandment becomes official.

It seems to the be standard half arsed method.

Doctor14

concussion wrote: »

What is contained in Admin Order 02 /2012?

Having seen it myself, it does not say what RDFRA are claiming it says.... not even close. I can see why there would be a reaction but, from what I am hearing, RDFRA haven't even seen it themselves and are reacting to rumours of what it says.

I won't go into the details of it here but this is a complete over reaction by RDFRA.

Maoltuile

Manic Moran wrote: »

I can't imagine that the Army is authorised to disband half its own force without some go-ahead from at least the Minister...

A little more info on the backstory is likely required. Concussion has hit the nail on the head.

It doesn't appear to be disbanding. Not even Shatter would dare drop nearly half the DF without first making a statement to the Dáil.

It's administrative tidying-up ahead of big changes that the f**king RDFRA-heads have created a panic with (not least by apparently not asking anyone about the purpose of the instruction before cranking up their Facebook page).

thefishone

I was told the panic was from a badly written letter*.
It was supposed to be about the Reserve Units in the Western Bde,which were to have all accounts closed/Submitted and transferred to their new Bde.
However as we know,some people might have misunderstood and thought the Reserve was being shut down.

*May have been a text message*

Doctor14

thefishone wrote: »

I was told the panic was from a badly written letter*.
It was supposed to be about the Reserve Units in the Western Bde,which were to have all accounts closed/Submitted and transferred to their new Bde.
However as we know,some people might have misunderstood and thought the Reserve was being shut down.

*May have been a text message*

The letter was not "badly written". It was not about the West. It was a panic started by RDFRA over what was a simple admin order.

I read it last week, it raised an eyebrow but that was it. No panic.

I note that RDFRA have gone all quiet on the panic they caused - I think it is the 2nd time this year that they have encouraged Mutiny.

testicle

Doctor14 wrote: »

I note that RDFRA have gone all quiet on the panic they caused - I think it is the 2nd time this year that they have encouraged Mutiny.

It is. They got a right rap on the knuckles the first time.

Manic Moran

OK, RDFRA is being run by idiots. That's a granted. But the other question is what sort of atmosphere exists in the relationship between the RDF and PDF/DoD to make RDFRA so gunshy to begin with? They obviously believe themselves to be under realistic threat of their existence.

goldie fish

Manic Moran wrote: »

OK, RDFRA is being run by idiots. That's a granted. But the other question is what sort of atmosphere exists in the relationship between the RDF and PDF/DoD to make RDFRA so gunshy to begin with? They obviously believe themselves to be under realistic threat of their existence.

Possibly becayuse their membership, ever diminishing, has realised their absolute pointlessness, other than to create self importance for its committeee.

Maoltuile

Manic Moran wrote: »

OK, RDFRA is being run by idiots. That's a granted. But the other question is what sort of atmosphere exists in the relationship between the RDF and PDF/DoD to make RDFRA so gunshy to begin with? They obviously believe themselves to be under realistic threat of their existence.

RDF relationships with the PDF vary widely, usually depending on your Corps and if you have a co-located PDF unit. RDFRA... well, where to start on that one. They've never learnt to prioritise the right things, reflecting the gone-to-seed nature of some of the officials.

Doctor14

Manic Moran wrote: »

OK, RDFRA is being run by idiots. That's a granted. But the other question is what sort of atmosphere exists in the relationship between the RDF and PDF/DoD to make RDFRA so gunshy to begin with? They obviously believe themselves to be under realistic threat of their existence.

Well, there was always a good relationship between RDFRA and the Army. But the Grat debacle in 2008 (?) soured things a bit. A negotiated agreement was changed at the last minute by the Army and signed off on. This led to a lot of resentment towards RDFRA and a changing of the guard over the last few years. But the new guys have slowly realised that their aggressive tactics are getting them nowhere and are getting more militant (and still getting nowhere). There is also big splits in the organisation with people leaving in droves and each group fighting for different things, most of which is irrelevant. And then you have the eternal problem that RDFRA have never actually held the sub unit reps accountable and most of the "representatives" don't actually represent anyone except themselves, hence a wide gulf between the head guys and the ordinary member. It is like each group are fighting for scraps, they have no set policies on anything and make it up as they go along. And given the money that is pumped into the organisation, people are not happy with the haphazardness of it all and the infighting.

And the continuing hostility towards the Army has led to the Army shutting out RDFRA, making them irrelevant and leading to more people leaving. This latest mess, and the previous "mutiny", have swung an awful lot of people against them. I've heard they are now banned from most barracks and units with few Company commanders allowing them to talk to troops due to their encouragement of mutiny.

Manic Moran

Has there been suggestion given to a rival association then?

The Radiator

I dunno, maybe

fenris

I think that this reflects the situation as a whole in Ireland at the moment where the darwinian pre-budget process seems to be to make a leak, gauge the reaction, row back if the reaction is too strong and push on if it can be gotten away with, the news today was a prime example in the health service.

It is unfortunate that this has spilled over into the military but is not entirely unexpected.
The clear message is if you value an organisation or service you have to fight for it in a vocal and public manner at the first sniff of a potential threat.
Like it or not the threat is political and that is the battleground on which the outcome will be decided.

Members value the RDF and are prepared to defend it as an organisation whether RDFRA are involved or not.

The important thing to remember about the RDF is that them members have more scope than the PDF to put their point of view to politicians in a manner that cannot be as easily ignored.
RDFRA can attempt to channel that influence and their success will be based on their results. If they are not perceived as doing a good job then they become irrelevant (Darwin again).

A functional representative organisation can be useful to all parties, serving as a single collection point allowing items to be addressed in a controlled and co-ordinated manner, however if it becomes a means of keeping items off of the agenda, long fingering items or pushing the agenda or specific interest groups then it fails and fades0.

If RDFRA fails as an representative organisation then people will seek representation elsewhere and are free to do so, the result will be parish pump politics at its finest and all the erratic decision making that falls out from that, whether that is better or worse that the current situation is open to debate, but then again that is the country we live in.

Doctor14

fenris wrote: »

If RDFRA fails as an representative organisation then people will seek representation elsewhere and are free to do so, the result will be parish pump politics at its finest and all the erratic decision making that falls out from that, whether that is better or worse that the current situation is open to debate, but then again that is the country we live in.

Correct me if I am wrong but what you are saying is that we should accept RDFRA with all its failings because it is the best we can get? And its attempts at encouraging "mutiny" are acceptable given the current political climate?

Shouldn't we be looking for far better from a Representative Organisation? Especially given that many of its fundamental problems are down to internal organisation rather than lack of money (not a problem) and Political environment. RDFRA could be a far better organisation tomorrow IF IT DECIDED to be at no cost.

As for setting up a separate organisation? 1 it is illegal (RDFRA needed a ministerial act to get set up and any other organisation would be classed as political agitation) and 2. isn't there something about the first thing on the agenda of any Irish organisation is a split!!!

SPLITTERS!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/embed/gb_qHP7VaZE

fenris

Doctor14 wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong but what you are saying is that we should accept RDFRA with all its failings because it is the best we can get?

Absolutely not, what I am saying is that if RDFRA doesn't cut the mustard then it will fade to irrelevance, that decision will be made by the individuals it claims to represent based on the perceived effectiveness of RDFRA.
If RDFRA pull up its socks and fulfill their function then grand, but nobody is under any obligation to wait for that to happen.

Representations to local politicians can be made regardless of the state of RDFRA because that is how this country works, the success of those representations is dependent on purely local factors. Cumulative representation may yield results far in excess of those achievable via a representative organisation.

Political activity is not forbidden to members of the RDF, indeed many politicians have spent time in the FCA/RDF over the years, something that they are quick to point out when they are at the doorstep of a PDF/RDF house looking for votes.

As far as a separate organisation goes, there is not much evidence to suggest that the result would be any different. Ministerial recognition is all well and good, sounds great but any individual or organisation needs to be judged by actions and results not on their good intentions. If it doesn't work then people will try something different, there is a term for carrying out the same actions and expecting different results!

The current climate both political and economic means most peoples actions are more focused in every every aspect of life, there is not the time or energy available to be wasted by engaging in suboptimal behaviour, those who do lose out to those who are more focused.

Morpheus

Their silly comments on FB raised the hackles on a few bods to whack out the usual feck the PDF etc... good to see one or two people telling others to remember their oaths and that the PDF are their comrades, their mates and in some cases ex RDF members and to stop yabbering on like idiots. Its not nor should it ever be a them and us situation.

Reservists do need a representative body, but the current one, which actually does include a couple of decent bods, is however a little shortsighted IMO. they do push for some silly things, but they need to focus their energy and vision if they want to again garnish support. maybe having a yearly annual membership instead of this crappy % of your salary would help.

A focused mission statement and realistic movement towards getting the RDF to where it should be, a professional, available, fit, hard working, VIABLE, reserve component of the army with a DEFINED role. Looking at the key elements of job protection, increased training, getting out and promoting the benefits of the reserves and of its members to the public. Repeatedly I have begged them to look at the TA and its representative group and how THEY do things, but it falls on deaf ears which is why im not a member.

RedWolfCQB

Anyone have a link to this facebook page? I can't find it? Nothing coming up for RDF or Reserve defence forces.

Morpheus

search for rd fra yes with a space between the RD and the FRA.

RedWolfCQB

Morphéus wrote: »

search for rd fra yes with a space between the RD and the FRA.

ha ha you seem annoyed by that spacing?!

RedWolfCQB

Ah I see why its Rd Fra, its because its a human profile for facebook not a page. You have to have a first name and surname. I remember when I set up a profile for my football team they wouldn't accept United as a surname! Had to use Utd instead. Should have just set up a page like PDF page.

Con1988

I have just started enquiringly about the Reserves, I am 24. I just have few questions.

Are they still recruiting, since this has risen?

I am at the very early stage, I just got my application and just about to send it back. How long does it take for the next stage?

And what does the RDF do in from week to week??

What are the next stages once you get security clearance?

if everyone who passes medicals, and security. do you automatically get recruited?

if I do pass everything and get recruited what is the next step?

I know this is a little bit off topic, but I thought I might get a fast response to my questions faster.


Any Help is appreciated.

Morpheus

Con1988 wrote: »

I have just started enquiringly about the Reserves, I am 24. I just have few questions.

Are they still recruiting, since this has risen?

I am at the very early stage, I just got my application and just about to send it back. How long does it take for the next stage?

And what does the RDF do in from week to week??

What are the next stages once you get security clearance?

if everyone who passes medicals, and security. do you automatically get recruited?

if I do pass everything and get recruited what is the next step?

I know this is a little bit off topic, but I thought I might get a fast response to my questions faster.


Any Help is appreciated.

This thread is about the RDFRA notice that was sent out, there are plenty of other threads on here about RDF recruitment though, you should have a quick look at them and post up in there.... try this one:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056737060

syklops

Now that we know the RDF has not been disbanded, do you think we should change the thread title? "RDFRA:Oh Noes, the DoD have disbanded the RDF, DoD: No, all we said was these aren't our pizzas".
Otherwise people will read the first post and then jump on the facebook page.

Just a thought.

Alkers

Anyone had any luck leaving the RDFRA, I'm part of the NSR and the whole association seems to completely ignorant of our existince and I don't want any more of my paychecks goign towards these incompetents.:mad:

Morpheus

Hey, NSR head, thats no different than the army lol, they dont notice us either

Pte complains to his RDFRA rep:
"Im in the army, i cant wear barrack boots out on the ground and they wont issue tactic boots unless i do a 72hr ex... my feet were cold and wet for 42 of the last 48hr ex i was on as our patrol harbour was in a swamp surrounded by rivers on an island in a big lake with no boats."

RDFRA: "No worries, well help .... heres some sam brownes for your officers"

see!

L.Jenkins

So it seems RDFRA created an unnecessary panick. Thankfully I never joined. I can still get my kit without them. A new Representative Org. seems like an idea as RDFRA appears to be officer orientated.

testicle

Simona1986 wrote: »

Anyone had any luck leaving the RDFRA, I'm part of the NSR and the whole association seems to completely ignorant of our existince and I don't want any more of my paychecks goign towards these incompetents.:mad:

Yep. Fill out these 2 pages, and send them off to the respective addresses.

http://homepage.eircom.net/~idmtraining/RDFRA%20resignation%20form.pdf

Owryan

Morphéus wrote: »

Hey, NSR head, thats no different than the army lol, they dont notice us either

Pte complains to his RDFRA rep:
"Im in the army, i cant wear barrack boots out on the ground and they wont issue tactic boots unless i do a 72hr ex... my feet were cold and wet for 42 of the last 48hr ex i was on as our patrol harbour was in a swamp surrounded by rivers on an island in a big lake with no boats."

RDFRA: "No worries, well help .... heres some sam brownes for your officers"

see!

But RDFRA are seeing the bigger picture . The warm glow that the tossifer will be radiating while he strokes his new sam browne will keep all his men nice n cosy

goldie fish

The incompetence of the RDFRA knows no bounds.

Manic Moran

I really am at a loss to understand why the Irish find it so hard to have a functioning reserve which works and plays well with everyone else.

The National Guard Association is holding its annual conference here this weekend. I may be able to swing by for the second day. Will try to be the inconspicuous captain amongst all the generals and colonels and attempt to divine the issues they choose to talk about.

Maybe when I'm over your way later this month, I should give a briefing to the RDFRA, PDF and Minister on how easy we find it here. I'm already bringing the ACUs and Blues...

Owryan

Manic Moran wrote: »

I really am at a loss to understand why the Irish find it so hard to have a functioning reserve which works and plays well with everyone else.

Its not too hard to understand for an insider. For one it has no purpose or role, oh sure there's the statute and whole "defend" the country bit but in terms of the day to day role the Reserve is lost without direction (this is my own opinion from pers experience)

Units seem to do their own thing according to their own wishes with only a passing nod towards training programmes. Sadly for all too many its still a social club and until this minority which sadly often contains the decision makers are retired off there will still be opposition to "more work, less play" on camps.

My own solution would be simple, disband all battalions, regiments and squadrons. create a reserve company/battery/troop in each PDF unit and a HQ and training company at brigade level to handle recruits and promotion courses.

The PDF will need to have a much closer working relationship with its reserve element as they will either get value out of it or else it will become a burden to them .There would be a lot of details to sort and a long bumpy road to go down but if the reserve wants to survive its probably the only solution .

syklops

Owryan wrote: »

Its not too hard to understand for an insider. For one it has no purpose or role, oh sure there's the statute and whole "defend" the country bit but in terms of the day to day role the Reserve is lost without direction (this is my own opinion from pers experience)

Units seem to do their own thing according to their own wishes with only a passing nod towards training programmes. Sadly for all too many its still a social club and until this minority which sadly often contains the decision makers are retired off there will still be opposition to "more work, less play" on camps.

My own solution would be simple, disband all battalions, regiments and squadrons. create a reserve company/battery/troop in each PDF unit and a HQ and training company at brigade level to handle recruits and promotion courses.

The PDF will need to have a much closer working relationship with its reserve element as they will either get value out of it or else it will become a burden to them .There would be a lot of details to sort and a long bumpy road to go down but if the reserve wants to survive its probably the only solution .

What you see is more the effect, not the cause of the problem.

We are a small country(population roughly the same as Manchester), and we are neutral, despite being on an Island of strategic importance to Britain and mainland Europe. These two 'facts' alone have had tongues wagging for decades asking why do we even need an Army? If the sh1t hits the fan, our friends the British won't want a strategic position like ours falling and so will defend our Island. Aid to the Civil Power could be done more cheaply by private security firms, search and rescue can be done more cheaply by volunteers, the Gardai and private firms. Why don't we spend more on the Civil Defence etc etc.

Just to clarify these are not my opinions, these are the questions asked every day / week / year to those in power and to those who hold the purse strings(especially around budget time). The result of this shortsightedness is those at the top of the PDF are actually under constant fire to keep their budgets in order, and keep their personnel up to date, fit and be able to react.

The RDF is seen by many as a drain on resources, and a threat to the future of the PDF. Whether that is the case or not i don't know. Who knows what crazy idea a future politician may have. However the disdain that is often shown to the RDF by the PDF has resulted in many RDF units and sub-units having to go about things 'their own way', just to get some things done.

The main difference between the US and Ireland military wise is budget. The US spends about 10 times per head of population than Ireland does.

TL;DR version : there is a much smaller pot here, so a lot more squabbling goes on over it.

Morpheus

Glad thats not your opinion because Ireland is not a neutral country, thats a false statement held over from during the emergency that the average joe in the street thinks is still in existence and one that our Govt likes to hide behind from time to time when it suits. we would need to be constitutionally neutral for it to be a real neutrality.

anyway enough politics....

we have a small force, they have to face facts that they will continue to shrink, they should start to look at reserves as a way to augment larger numbers and look at the reality.

The defence forces could have one of two trains of thought:

Today, the defence forces stand at roughly 9500 members

or

Today, the defence forces stand at roughly 13500 members

You can be damn sure that its the former and the them and us mindset instead of....

Lateral thinking, well weve 9500 well trained fulltimers, and 4000 of various levels of training. scrap and replace all current RDF syllabi that arent working, augment and improve existing ones and then well lets train the sh*t out of them, push for job security (theres only 3-4000 people country wide in the RDF and thats the tiny amount that would need their employer to come to terms with this and out of those, only those who are not students or self employed) and start deploying them on and off dutys...

dutys.... what does that comprise of?

do we want the RDF to supplement the df at home, or do we want them as organic units able to deploy on the exact same missions as the PDF?

well lets see....

we have a limit on the numbers of pers we can send overseas...

is this due to a political decision or the reality of numbers, if its a reality of numbers then by simple maths, if we have 13500 available then lets increase the numbers we send overseas, then lets make a commitment that in all future overseas missions 10% will be reserves, initially.

lets try to make a commitment to send 10% to the battlegroups

lets start recognising the poxy civvie certifications and looking to piecemeal employ these little nuggets inside our own organisation

i mean i just came up with that crap over a 5 minute coffee.... now why the f**k does nobody in charge seem to be thinking the same f**king way?

look at the TA, national guard, french reserves, german reserves, dutch reserves, any other countrys reserves, combine all of their various roles on an excel sheet, then pick and choose the ones we deem suitable for ireland and then give the RDF a mission and train them up for the army to f**king employ.
:pac:


also rather than bash the RDFRA, id say that they need to realise that theyve lost touch with the members / non members that matter most... not the crusty old top brass and senior positions, but the standard NCO's down .... they are the orgs future, if it still has one. they need to embrace this change as much as they can, swallow the bitter pills that we all know are sure to follow and then something needs to be done to absolutely DESTROY the them and us pox that blights the ENTIRE DF of which the RDF makes up almost THIRTY %

testicle

Manic Moran wrote: »

I'm already bringing the ACUs and Blues...

Did you not get in enough trouble the last time?

Manic Moran

testicle wrote: »

Did you not get in enough trouble the last time?

Dept of Foreign Affairs has signed off.

newby.204

Morphéus wrote: »

we have a limit on the numbers of pers we can send overseas...

is this due to a political decision or the reality of numbers, if its a reality of numbers then by simple maths, if we have 13500 available then lets increase the numbers we send overseas, then lets make a commitment that in all future overseas missions 10% will be reserves, initially.

The 2 highlighted parts of the quote are enough to make sure that nobody in the PDF would want the RDF to survive, its hard enough for us to get overseas as it is!! The idea that a reservist took the place of a PDF member would cause a sh!tstorm, you could forget all about integration on that point alone. Overseas trips are essential to fulfill contractual/promotional obligations and as such reservists overseas in place of PDF would never happen

just my 2c

Maoltuile

newby.204 wrote: »

The 2 highlighted parts of the quote are enough to make sure that nobody in the PDF would want the RDF to survive, its hard enough for us to get overseas as it is!! The idea that a reservist took the place of a PDF member would cause a sh!tstorm, you could forget all about integration on that point alone. Overseas trips are essential to fulfill contractual/promotional obligations and as such reservists overseas in place of PDF would never happen

just my 2c

Agreed. And the employment protection stick will never be implemented in a corrupt little crony capitalist state like this one, so it ought to be dropped. You'd have more luck with the enticement of PRSI or tax breaks in return for supporting staff in a wider variety of voluntary organisations giving back to society - like St. VdeP, Civil Defence and the RDF.

OS119

newby.204 wrote: »

...The idea that a reservist took the place of a PDF member would cause a sh!tstorm, you could forget all about integration on that point alone. Overseas trips are essential to fulfill contractual/promotional obligations and as such reservists overseas in place of PDF would never happen..

phew!

i had been labouring under the mistaken impression that the function of the Irish Defence Forces is to undertake military operations as required by the government of the day, and that the configuration of the force to be used was determined by the requirement to successfully complete the mission and its objectives as laid out by the Minister for Defence on behalf of the government.

thank fcuk my understanding has been corrected, i'd really got the wrong end of the stick there!

Manic Moran

Huh. Mitt Romney is on the speakers list for the NGAUS conference. Wonder if Michael D. Would address the RDFRA AGM?

newby.204

OS119 wrote: »

phew!

i had been labouring under the mistaken impression that the function of the Irish Defence Forces is to undertake military operations as required by the government of the day, and that the configuration of the force to be used was determined by the requirement to successfully complete the mission and its objectives as laid out by the Minister for Defence on behalf of the government.

thank fcuk my understanding has been corrected, i'd really got the wrong end of the stick there!

It is however the fact of the matter is(your blatant condescension/sarcasm aside) that a reservist isn't fulfilling any contractual/legal obligations by partaking in an overseas mission, a members of the DF is, therefore feet on the ground would be opposed to reservists taking their placement/promotion/financial opportunities away from them.

Turbine

newby.204 wrote: »

It is however the fact of the matter is(your blatant condescension/sarcasm aside) that a reservist isn't fulfilling any contractual/legal obligations by partaking in an overseas mission, a members of the DF is, therefore feet on the ground would be opposed to reservists taking their placement/promotion/financial opportunities away from them.

Last time I checked reservists were members of the Defence Forces and are under contract.

Manic Moran

Wait. Surely a PDF contract doesn't state that they -have- to go on a deployment, period, does it? I can't imagine why they would put in a requirement that is out of their hands.

newby.204

Manic Moran wrote: »

Wait. Surely a PDF contract doesn't state that they -have- to go on a deployment, period, does it? I can't imagine why they would put in a requirement that is out of their hands.

Is that a genuine question manic?? I'm only asking cause I'm not sure if your having a dig or not??

Local-womanizer

newby.204 wrote: »

Manic Moran wrote: »

Wait. Surely a PDF contract doesn't state that they -have- to go on a deployment, period, does it? I can't imagine why they would put in a requirement that is out of their hands.

Is that a genuine question manic?? I'm only asking cause I'm not sure if your having a dig or not??

It's genuine I'd say, he is pointed out the fact the DF have no say whether they deploy overseas or not.

If the government decided to end and cease all overseas missions for the foreseeable future what would happen contract requirements!

Maoltuile

Manic Moran wrote: »

Huh. Mitt Romney is on the speakers list for the NGAUS conference. Wonder if Michael D. Would address the RDFRA AGM?

Particularly as Michael D. was the gentleman who provided the RDF with something useful to do during the Nineties!

KickstartHeart

Who said reservists have to 'replace' soldiers. Why can't they be used as well as the current numbers of PDF personnel being used. It would mean that the DF could get more people overseas in different areas and gain more.

I'd agree with .204 on this one re: soldiers needing overseas as it is their bread and butter and soldiers should have those opertunities first. But the DF should be able to undertake more overseas ops (if it was to use its reserve forces) meaning soldiers and reservists can get the opportunities.

From what I know the RDF isn't nearly capable of contributing troops for overseas service that would have the skills and capabilities as PDF soldiers, but there's no reason why, with a bit of hard work and imagination + interest in such a step that it isn't possible to change that fact. The government would be silly not to tap into such a possibility.