Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

God without religion

Options
  • 03-09-2012 2:26pm
    #1
    doctoremma
    Registered Users Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭


    Possibly could go in any number of fora but I'm most familiar with the posters here....

    Is it possible to have god without religion? For those who have turned away from organised religion in favour of a more personal approach, does the god figure (and many of the rules) not coincide with the that of the religion you are most familiar with? When switching denominations, are you not just trying to fit religion to your own world view? Do deists have a god figure that fits with their most familiar religion? For the "spiritual but not religious", what form does your god take?


«13

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    If you're just making it up yourself it can be whatever you want. For me its a giant flying spaghetti monster.


  • Options
    #3
    doctoremma
    Registered Users Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭doctoremma


    GarIT wrote: »
    If you're just making it up yourself it can be whatever you want. For me its a giant flying spaghetti monster.
    And you came up with that godhead all by yourself, did you? ;)


  • Options
    #4
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    No, I doubt you came up with your god yourself. I'm just pointing out that it doesn't have to follow any set of rules if you do not belong to a religion.


  • Options
    #5
    EI_Flyboy
    Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭EI_Flyboy


    If there is a God, a single creator or if you believe in a God then you have to accept that God existed and exists free and independent of any religion. Religion is man's creation and as such is subject to all man's failings and imperfections. You don't need religion to access God.


  • Options
    #6
    doctoremma
    Registered Users Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭doctoremma


    GarIT wrote: »
    No, I doubt you came up with your god yourself. I'm just pointing out that it doesn't have to follow any set of rules if you do not belong to a religion.
    I don't have a god but you've somewhat strengthened my point. Is it even possible to have a personal idea of a god?

    If your god is a product of your own rules, is it really a god?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    doctoremma
    Registered Users Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭doctoremma


    EI_Flyboy wrote: »
    If there is a God, a single creator or if you believe in a God then you have to accept that God existed and exists free and independent of any religion. Religion is man's creation and as such is subject to all man's failings and imperfections. You don't need religion to access God.
    Understood. I'm just wondering what format such a god takes? And if they are monotheist, do they tend to use the prevailing religion's god as a starting point?

    I wonder what god looks like for people who've never experienced organised religion.


  • Options
    #8
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    It would certainly be difficult given that you already have an idea of what god should be like and you will always base your ideas on that so it can never be fully your own odeas unless you grew up with no knowledge of any gods.

    There are plenty of different gods though so the majority of them have to just be made up.


  • Options
    #9
    doctoremma
    Registered Users Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭doctoremma


    Just to be clear for any mods, I didn't start this thread as a set up to call BS. It was sparked by a couple of posts here, one a change of denomination and one rejecting religion in favour of spirituality. Exploring where you fit in terms of religion/denomination is, of course, fine. I was wondering if anyone has thrown off the shackles of their prevailing religion in favour of something completely personal and what form that difference takes.


  • Options
    #10
    EI_Flyboy
    Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭EI_Flyboy


    doctoremma wrote: »
    Understood. I'm just wondering what format such a god takes? And if they are monotheist, do they tend to use the prevailing religion's god as a starting point?

    I wonder what god looks like for people who've never experienced organised religion.

    God doesn't need us to know what God looks like. God doesn't need us to understand how God works. If God existed before us then God's starting point can be put a long time before anyone invented religion. About a starting point the questions that come to my mind are if there was a Big Bang, did God exist before or after the Big Bang or did God come into existence with the Big Bang? If there was a Big Bang then it makes sense that there is only one God.

    Edit: In saying that, I don't think God would be without purpose. Even if we're not required to know the master plan it doesn't mean we should discount it. If there is a master plan then it is something that is inherent in us all and around us all, it is there if we look for it. This however is anathema to most organised religion who claim that the only path to God is through them.


  • Options
    #11
    doctoremma
    Registered Users Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭doctoremma


    EI_Flyboy wrote: »
    God doesn't need us to know what God looks like. God doesn't need us to understand how God works. If God existed before us then God's starting point can be put a long time before anyone invented religion. About a starting point the questions that come to my mind are if there was a Big Bang, did God exist before or after the Big Bang or did God come into existence with the Big Bang? If there was a Big Bang then it makes sense that there is only one God.
    Again, understood (I think). I'm not debating what the nature of god is, I'm debating how people who claim to go their own way actually perceive their god. Is it genuinely possible to rid oneself of the imagery and stories that prevail in your society?

    If the above is your vision of god, does he have any embodiment? Doe she have any characteristics that are suspiciously similar to those of a familiar religion?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    The big bang was a physical process, if there was one only physical things were created, magic people in the sky were not.


  • Options
    #13
    pauldla
    Registered Users Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭pauldla


    I'm not sure it is possible to have such a personal relationship with god without being prejudiced by the creed you were brought up in. Note, for example, that you're asking about god, not gods. Presumably you were raised to one of the monotheistic religions?


  • Options
    #14
    EI_Flyboy
    Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭EI_Flyboy


    doctoremma wrote: »
    Again, understood (I think). I'm not debating what the nature of god is, I'm debating how people who claim to go their own way actually perceive their god. Is it genuinely possible to rid oneself of the imagery and stories that prevail in your society?

    If the above is your vision of god, does he have any embodiment? Doe she have any characteristics that are suspiciously similar to those of a familiar religion?

    I know you're not debating, you're only asking! Yes it's possible to rid yourself of the imagery once you realise there is absolutely no way you or anyone else can possibly know what God looks like. I have no idea if God has an embodiment but I think it's possible that that embodiment may simply be the whole Universe. The only characteristic I can think of that's shared with any of the religions is love though with a lot religions God's love seems to be conditional.


  • Options
    #15
    doctoremma
    Registered Users Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭doctoremma


    pauldla wrote: »
    I'm not sure it is possible to have such a personal relationship with god without being prejudiced by the creed you were brought up in. Note, for example, that you're asking about god, not gods. Presumably you were raised to one of the monotheistic religions?
    Well, I was exposed to a monotheistic religion and when I talk about a god or gods, it's always the standard Christian god I default to in my head (he looks like the Michaelangelo version).

    Having never, as an adult, believed in the existence of that god, I find it difficult to imagine others. It would be fair - maybe - to say I have a reasonably clear picture of the Roman and Greek pantheon, although I tend to view those as a collection of secondary gods, being ruled by a single figurehead (so even then, am I applying my monotheist reflex to a polytheist system?).

    Anyway, rambling. I guess I find it difficult to believe that anyone truly does rid themselves of the god (or gods) instilled in them by their surroundings. I'm not sure what it actually means when people say they believe in god but have no religion. Are there any "standard issue" believers here who view such claims with caution? Are they to be celebrated?


  • Options
    #16
    doctoremma
    Registered Users Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭doctoremma


    Ha, having googled my way around a few belief systems, I have come across the phrase I needed at the start. Does everyone anthropomorphise their god?


  • Options
    #17
    Plowman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Plowman


    This post has been deleted.


  • Options
    #18
    doctoremma
    Registered Users Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭doctoremma


    Plowman wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Fair dues, didn't even register that forum as the most appropriate, even though it clearly is...:o


  • Options
    #19
    gillad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 368 ✭✭gillad


    doctoremma wrote: »
    Possibly could go in any number of fora but I'm most familiar with the posters here....

    Is it possible to have god without religion? For those who have turned away from organised religion in favour of a more personal approach, does the god figure (and many of the rules) not coincide with the that of the religion you are most familiar with? When switching denominations, are you not just trying to fit religion to your own world view? Do deists have a god figure that fits with their most familiar religion? For the "spiritual but not religious", what form does your god take?


    God is the Energy of Love and it doesnt need a religion and it doesnt need to be worshipped.It doesnt need anything and it doesnt need us,we have freewill to live in that energy or ignore it.If you live in/with that God energy you will experience real happiness.its what buddah,muhammad and jesus tried to tell us:):):)
    Religions started out with good intentions but most got corrupted by power and a need to control the followers with fear.:(There is no such place as hell.


  • Options
    #20
    Sin City
    Registered Users Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭Sin City


    If there is a God, then the one true religeon is Deisim. Where God starts off with say the big bang, grabs a bag of popcorn, and watches the universe unfold itself and doesnt really interfere at all just watches


  • Options
    #21
    doctoremma
    Registered Users Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭doctoremma


    gillad wrote: »
    God is the Energy of Love and it doesnt need a religion and it doesnt need to be worshipped.It doesnt need anything and it doesnt need us,we have freewill to live in that energy or ignore it.If you live in/with that God energy you will experience real happiness.its what buddah,muhammad and jesus tried to tell us:):):)
    Religions started out with good intentions but most got corrupted by power and a need to control the followers with fear.:(There is no such place as hell.
    What does that mean, "God is the energy of love"? Love isn't energy so I assume you're using a poetic description of love? In which case, is it fair to say that you have ascribed the label of "god" to the network of human emotion that binds us to one another? So why do you need to label that "energy of love" as "god"? It's adding an unnecessary layer?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    doctoremma
    Registered Users Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭doctoremma


    Sin City wrote: »
    If there is a God, then the one true religeon is Deisim. Where God starts off with say the big bang, grabs a bag of popcorn, and watches the universe unfold itself and doesnt really interfere at all just watches
    Is it plausible, therefore, that "god" is simply another label, this time added the phenomenon that is the Big Bang?


  • Options
    #23
    Sin City
    Registered Users Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭Sin City


    doctoremma wrote: »
    Is it plausible, therefore, that "god" is simply another label, this time added the phenomenon that is the Big Bang?

    Possibly, I can neither confirm nor deny if that its the case (though I can give an educated case and say he didnt have a hand in it which is why I said IF God exits he probably did that, we are his Home and Away or Corrie or what have you.


    You know yourself Emma that human civilsations have decided that there is something above themselves conrtolling the world and taking responsibility awayf from themselves, where we all just got over relient on the concept.


  • Options
    #24
    Joe1919
    Registered Users Posts: 1,151 ✭✭✭Joe1919


    doctoremma wrote: »
    Is it possible to have god without religion? For those who have turned away from organised religion in favour of a more personal approach, does the god figure (and many of the rules) not coincide with the that of the religion you are most familiar with? ...

    I think there are good examples of attempts to have a god without religion e.g. some forms of stoicism, Spinoza, Pantheism, the American transcedentalists etc

    'I do not despise you priests, all time, the world over,
    My faith is the greatest of faiths and the least of faiths,
    Enclosing worship ancient and modern and all between ancient and modern,
    Believing I shall come again upon the earth after five thousand years,
    Waiting responses from oracles, honoring the gods, saluting the sun,
    Making a fetich of the first rock or stump, powowing with sticks in
    the circle of obis,
    Helping the llama or brahmin as he trims the lamps of the idols,
    Dancing yet through the streets in a phallic procession, rapt and
    austere in the woods a gymnosophist,
    Drinking mead from the skull-cap, to Shastas and Vedas admirant,
    minding the Koran,
    Walking the teokallis, spotted with gore from the stone and knife,
    beating the serpent-skin drum,
    Accepting the Gospels, accepting him that was crucified, knowing
    assuredly that he is divine,
    To the mass kneeling or the puritan's prayer rising, or sitting
    patiently in a pew,
    Ranting and frothing in my insane crisis, or waiting dead-like till
    my spirit arouses me,
    Looking forth on pavement and land, or outside of pavement and land,
    Belonging to the winders of the circuit of circuits.'
    verse 43 Song of Myself by Walt Whitman 1819-1892 http://www.daypoems.net/poems/1900.html


  • Options
    #25
    gillad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 368 ✭✭gillad


    doctoremma wrote: »
    What does that mean, "God is the energy of love"? Love isn't energy so I assume you're using a poetic description of love? In which case, is it fair to say that you have ascribed the label of "god" to the network of human emotion that binds us to one another? So why do you need to label that "energy of love" as "god"? It's adding an unnecessary layer?

    No i`m not being poetic at all.Love is ENERGY.I know its hard to grasp and its harder to explain in a post but when you find that ENERGY then everything makes perfect sense and science and God/Love/Energy all come together


  • Options
    #26
    pauldla
    Registered Users Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭pauldla


    gillad wrote: »
    No i`m not being poetic at all.Love is ENERGY.I know its hard to grasp and its harder to explain in a post but when you find that ENERGY then everything makes perfect sense and science and God/Love/Energy all come together

    If love were energy, one Friday night rave could power a small town.


  • Options
    #27
    doctoremma
    Registered Users Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭doctoremma


    gillad wrote: »
    No i`m not being poetic at all.Love is ENERGY.I know its hard to grasp and its harder to explain in a post but when you find that ENERGY then everything makes perfect sense and science and God/Love/Energy all come together
    It's hard to grasp because, for me, it's simply not true. I am a scientist and know what energy is (and a fair few equations involving it). It makes no sense. Love is an emotion; it's a head thing, not a physical thing.

    However, if you believe that love is energy, why do you then apply a "god" layer to it? Is "love is energy" not enough?


  • Options
    #28
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    Sin City wrote: »
    If there is a God, then the one true religeon is Deisim. Where God starts off with say the big bang, grabs a bag of popcorn, and watches the universe unfold itself and doesnt really interfere at all just watches

    You can't really say that for a fact, if there was a god it could be anything and do anything, but I doubt there is.


  • Options
    #29
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    gillad wrote: »
    No i`m not being poetic at all.Love is ENERGY.I know its hard to grasp and its harder to explain in a post but when you find that ENERGY then everything makes perfect sense and science and God/Love/Energy all come together

    There are a limited number of energies, none of them are love.
    pauldla wrote: »
    If love were energy, one Friday night rave could power a small town.

    I've never seen love there :L


  • Options
    #30
    pauldla
    Registered Users Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭pauldla


    GarIT wrote: »
    I've never seen love there :L

    But you can feel it baby, you can feel it.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    pauldla wrote: »
    But you can feel it baby, you can feel it.

    Nope, thats not love.


Advertisement