postage refund

JAMES VTI S

can someone legely not refund you the postage costs of an item ?

slimjimmc

Depends entirely on the circumstances. You'll need to elaborate.

JAMES VTI S

i bought a charger it was not working on my laptop correctly so i sent it back and he tested ti and it worked fine i have now bought a hp one and all is good

no fair im out 13 quid

Procrastastudy

JAMES VTI S wrote: »

i bought a charger it was not working on my laptop correctly so i sent it back and he tested ti and it worked fine i have now bought a hp one and all is good

no fair im out 13 quid

Sounds like it was incompatible - you would have to elaborate further.

JAMES VTI S

here is the tend
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...php?p=80473251

now he wont refund me all the money

Procrastastudy

JAMES VTI S wrote: »

here is the tend
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...php?p=80473251

now he wont refund me all the money

Link fail - so its just off of someone like on boards not a business? You're gonn lose out I'd say. Negative feedback if possible I guess.

JAMES VTI S

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=80473251

Procrastastudy

JAMES VTI S wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=80473251

That doesn't look much like a legit business - for consumer law to kick in the goods must be sold from a business - whether that means the business has to be registered or just act as a business I have no idea sorry. (Would love to know the answer if anyone knows!)

Lplated

Procrastastudy wrote: »

That doesn't look much like a legit business - for consumer law to kick in the goods must be sold from a business - whether that means the business has to be registered or just act as a business I have no idea sorry. (Would love to know the answer if anyone knows!)

Well he describes himself in the ad as ---

Business: Barrys of Blarney

The Ad also says "I have a large selection of new, unused top quality laptop chargers for sale."

So, he describes himself as acting commercially, and more importantly, he isn't simply carrying out a once off trade - he is selling a 'large selection' - so again would indicate he is acting as or in the nature of a business.

JAMES VTI S

so what dose this mean

Lplated

JAMES VTI S wrote: »

i bought a charger it was not working on my laptop correctly so i sent it back and he tested ti and it worked fine i have now bought a hp one and all is good

no fair im out 13 quid

There's the first problem I see. If it worked fine, the problem was on your end - why should he refund you?

Procrastastudy

Lplated wrote: »

Well he describes himself in the ad as ---

Business: Barrys of Blarney

The Ad also says "I have a large selection of new, unused top quality laptop chargers for sale."

So, he describes himself as acting commercially, and more importantly, he isn't simply carrying out a once off trade - he is selling a 'large selection' - so again would indicate he is acting as or in the nature of a business.

Do you have a link to anything definitive of what is required for him to be operating as a business for the purposes of the Sale of Goods Act and the Distance Selling Regs? Grand if you don't I would be obliged if you do however.

JAMES VTI S

ok fair point

from the start

i pluged in the charger he sold me and worked fine for like 2 minutes and then the courser got all skittish so i rang him and said the re is a problem so he sent me another and it was the same story

i phoned him and said i will return them i did so and he wont refund me the full cost

if you pluged the charger into your laptop it might work fine and same goes for anyone reading this
but he said it would work with mine and it didnt
it was a generic like this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?VISuperSize&item=290769969854

i bought this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200660751490?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2648 and have no problems scence < hp original part<

Lplated

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Do you have a link to anything definitive of what is required for him to be operating as a business for the purposes of the Sale of Goods Act and the Distance Selling Regs? Grand if you don't I would be obliged if you do however.

I would guess it's either in the definitions of the Act or in an interpretation of them in some case. Dont have either to hand.

JAMES VTI S

the link above thats not working http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/replacement-AC-adapter-charger-for-HP-laptop-/130756720542?pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item1e71b5379e#ht_500wt_1203

JAMES VTI S

i all ways get problem of some sort when i buy online in ireland :mad: ffs

Procrastastudy

Lplated wrote: »

I would guess it's either in the definitions of the Act or in an interpretation of them in some case. Dont have either to hand.

Its not in the act as far as I know - reported case law would be very thin on the ground. I think neither of us can really state for certain so I'm going to stick with my original theory of - not a lot you can do about it - sorry OP. Happy and obliged if proved wrong!

Lplated

JAMES VTI S wrote: »

ok fair point

from the start

i pluged in the charger he sold me and worked fine for like 2 minutes and then the courser got all skittish so i rang him and said the re is a problem so he sent me another and it was the same story

i phoned him and said i will return them i did so and he wont refund me the full cost

if you pluged the charger into your laptop it might work fine and same goes for anyone reading this

But he will refund you part of the cost? And I assume he's refunded you the entire cost of the charger itself?

Just reading the other thread, it seems like you take the risk when buying these cheaper generic chargers as to whether it will work in your phone/computer or not - if they were working properly, then you got what you ordered and any refund would be at his discretion, even if they wouldn't work specifically on yours.

Tbh I think you're in a bit of difficulty here - you don't have the chargers so you can't prove they weren't working, only say that they didn't work for you.

If he's paid you back the cost of the charger thats fine, and if he's offereing you part of the postage charge then I'd be inclined to take it and suffer the 12 Euro.

JAMES VTI S

when i was talking to him on the phone he want the spec of the charger that originaly had so i got the right one

Lplated

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Its not in the act as far as I know - reported case law would be very thin on the ground. I think neither of us can really state for certain so I'm going to stick with my original theory of - not a lot you can do about it - sorry OP. Happy and obliged if proved wrong!

I'm happy to state with a high degree of certainty that whether a person is actually in business or not, even if they only hold themselves out to be in business, that the Act applies.

Lplated

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Its not in the act as far as I know - reported case law would be very thin on the ground. I think neither of us can really state for certain so I'm going to stick with my original theory of - not a lot you can do about it - sorry OP. Happy and obliged if proved wrong!

http://www.attorneygeneral.ie/slru/Restatement_Sale%20_of_Goods_Acts_1893_and_Part%20II_of_1980%20.pdf

s.3(1), pp 38/39

Dealing as consumer
3. (1) In the Act of 1893 and this Act, a party to a contract is said to deal as
consumer in relation to another party if—
(a) he neither makes the contract in the course of a business nor holds himself
out as doing so, and
(b) the other party does make the contract in the course of a business, and
(c) the goods or services supplied under or in pursuance of the contract are
of a type ordinarily supplied for private use or consumption.

etc etc...

I already stated above the reasons I thought he holds himself out as acting in the course of a business.

BTW - There is quite a lot of case law on consumer matters/interpretation of the Acts - there is a good Annotated version of the Act as a starter point as well as a more recent Text book.

Procrastastudy

I've had very little luck in finding a decent consumer law text book for Ireland. I think 'Holds himself out to be' would be fairly definitive although I take your point on an commentary. I think you've linked the wrong section there but I have a funny feeling its the same for a business - I'll actually check this time though

For the OP then the Act probably applies then and it will come down to what was said between them. I assume you have e-mails OP?

On consumer case law do you have a link? Thats another thing I've had trouble locating. Westlaw, Justis and Bailii don't tend to have it although again I'm open to correction.

Very much obliged to you Lplated

JAMES VTI S

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/laptops/3560420

Try the instructions here and if that does not work I will send out a replacement.

Battery Tip:
Adjust your laptop battery in order to achieve optimum performance.
Laptop battery has built-in microprocessor software, it can calculate the remaining capacity of a battery when it is charging or discharging. Battery needs to be adjusted from time to time to ensure that the screen displays the time and percentage is correct. You should implement a full charge and discharge operation at its first use, and thereafter every 2 or 3 months once the operation as follows,
1. First of the "Power" option setting: Right-click on a blank screen, then select "Properties" → "Screen Saver" → "Power" → "Power Schemes" → "Portable / Laptop". Then, select "Never" for all the options of the “Battery Schemes", and for the "Warning" options, don't choose "Low Batter alarm" or "serious shortage of battery alarm".

2. Disconnect the AC adapter and use your laptop until it itself shuts down. In this situation, the battery is fully discharged.

3. Connect the AC adapter and your battery should start charging. Charge until the battery is full. Repeat this charge and discharge cycle 3-4 times and your battery pack will be conditioned to perform at full capacity. The process of charging takes at least 5 hours or more.

Note: When your battery is adjusted to achieve optimum performance, please set your computer's power options to their default values?? to ensure that your computer can send the correct warning signal. Such as: low battery alarm or alarm before sleep and so on.

this is what he emaied me to do to fix the problem still did'nt work

Procrastastudy

JAMES VTI S wrote: »

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/laptops/3560420




this is what he emaied me to do to fix the problem still did'nt work

Its more what you said to him. Did you say - "Hey I'm looking for a charger for a HP101XYZ will that work? Or did you just rely on your own judgment that it would work?

Just to say this OP - The chances of you enforcing this are next to nil as it's €25 to imitate a small claims court claim.

JAMES VTI S

i gave him the spec of the original charger so he matched that but its was a cheap azz charger

Procrastastudy

JAMES VTI S wrote: »

i gave him the spec of the original charger so he matched that but its was a cheap azz charger

Well in that case (sorry this has taken so long Lplated was giving me an education which I have to say I needed) I'd say if the guy is a business - I'd look for a full refund.

NB Thats just my view and its been wrong already several times.

Lplated

Procrastastudy wrote: »

I've had very little luck in finding a decent consumer law text book for Ireland. I think 'Holds himself out to be' would be fairly definitive although I take your point on an commentary. I think you've linked the wrong section there but I have a funny feeling its the same for a business - I'll actually check this time though

Think thats the section - you just need to read it without the negatives - i.e. a person is dealing is a consumer if he does not X, but in OPs case, becasue other guy did X [see my earlier post], then he is not dealing as a consumer but rather as a business.

Procrastastudy wrote: »

On consumer case law do you have a link? Thats another thing I've had trouble locating. Westlaw, Justis and Bailii don't tend to have it although again I'm open to correction.

Very much obliged to you Lplated

There is an Annotated version of the Acts - could be by Kerr but can't remember tbh.
Is also a new text book [last 5 yrs or so], written by 3 authors [no good with names] - any law library should have them.

Lplated

Op, sorry for all the x posting in your thread.

I'm still not clear from what you said though - he has refunded you the cost of the chargers, right?

So we're only talking about the postage costs, which by the wording you've used, you imply he's offered to cover some.

We're left with a question of the portion of the cost of postage, in circumstances where the product you purchased [may have worked ok in any event according to seller], is one which may not work on your particular product.

Given the amount of money involved, and the question marks that exist over whether the goods worked [just not on your machine] etc... I think just chalk this one down to experience.

JAMES VTI S

no he has not refunded me anything yet

and wont refund any of the postage

Zab

I think the problem is that he's saying there was nothing wrong with the supply. In this case he only has to refund you due to the cooling off period in the Distance Selling regs, which state that you cover return costs for cooling off period change of mind returns. I believe he is liable for return postage when there's a defect although I can't give you a reference for this. In practice if he sticks to his story and you don't have any proof the supply was giving inconsistent power then it's going to be hard to make him do anything, and he might even come to this position after an honest but incomplete testing of the supply.

JAMES VTI S

cai@thecai.ie wrote:

He is misinterpreting the EU Distance Selling laws.
He is entitled to deduct his costs IF you simply change your mind and return the goods.

He is NOT entitled to make any deduction if the item is faulty and not fit for its purpose.

If this persists contact your credit card company, send them these emails and request a reversal of the transaction.

Sincere regards
THECAI

the Consumer Association thinks different