Ruair Quinn and his ahem advisors

Callan57

steddyeddy wrote: »

I spout a boring manrta again and again when it comes to the pay of these political advisors. Cancer researchers dont get paid as much as those people who are advising these political advisors.

Their politicians they should be well versed in politics already without the need for these political advisors. To be honest given the age of these chaps what sort of meaningful advice can they give as regards politics?

That is precisely the point ... no experience, no knowledge and clearly lacking in basic cop on.

Sir Pompous Righteousness

steddyeddy wrote: »

I spout a boring manrta again and again when it comes to the pay of these political advisors. Cancer researchers dont get paid as much as those people who are advising these political advisors.

Their politicians they should be well versed in politics already without the need for these political advisors. To be honest given the age of these chaps what sort of meaningful advice can they give as regards politics?

Quoted for truth.

There are many researchers in vital areas of academia (especially science & engineering) with Ph.Ds and Post Docs behind them who'd struggle to make about €35k p/a. I doubt these "secretaries" (a.k.a., photocopy machine attendants) and "political advisors" are as vital as they are. It's just inexcusable spending. Goes to show how much a good cut & blow dry is needed on salaries inside the DOE - I'd start with those advisors.

pennypocket

Sir Pompous Righteousness wrote: »

Quoted for truth.

There are many researchers in vital areas of academia (especially science & engineering) with Ph.Ds and Post Docs behind them who'd struggle to make about €35k p/a. I doubt these "secretaries" (a.k.a., photocopy machine attendants) and "political advisors" are as vital as they are. It's just inexcusable spending. Goes to show how much a good cut & blow dry is needed on salaries inside the DOE - I'd start with those advisors.

And yet, €35k is a perfectly acceptable salary for someone starting out in their career. I would argue that no-one in the public service, even at the top echelons should earn over €150,000 a year, should work to retirement at 65, and only receive their pension after that age. Recruitment on merit is also an issue, and only properly qualified people (party faithful or not), should be considered for these positions.
A whole other issue is the fact that under the constitution of this state, the civil service serves the government, not the people. The constitutional review will not cut it, Ireland needs to become a republic officially and not just as a football squad.

steddyeddy

Callan57 wrote: »

That is precisely the point ... no experience, no knowledge and clearly lacking in basic cop on.

Well thats my point.

steddyeddy

How do political advisors benifit the taxpayer exactly? Dont they help the politicians get relected again and not doing something completely stupid to feck that up. Do we want to pay for people like this. Surely if the politicians are getting advice they should be getting expert advice from an expert related to their area of work?

Surely their advisors should be economists, lawyers, academics ect. Im not trying to slag the young lads Im getting at the people who thought that two young lads deserve a salary to give "political" advice.

When Mary Harney toured parts of the country in relation to cancer units she brought two spin doctors and not one cancer expert. Basically she brought two people to make her look good but absolutely no one who could give advice on how to improve value for expenditure and services for the taxpayer. Political advisors are not about solving problems but rather making those who cant solve the problems look better.

KINGVictor

Fuinseog wrote: »

I once worked in a school where teachers had to pay for the photocopying.

Yea yea

pennypocket

steddyeddy wrote: »

How do political advisors benifit the taxpayer exactly? Dont they help the politicians get relected again and not doing something completely stupid to feck that up. Do we want to pay for people like this. Surely if the politicians are getting advice they should be getting expert advice from an expert related to their area of work?

Political advisors are the sinecure of the party(s) in government. AKA reward of the party faithful.

"The primary function of special advisers will be to secure the achievement of Government objectives and to ensure effective co-ordination in the implementation of the programme for government. The role and duties of special advisers are described in section 11 of the Public Service Management Act 1997. In summary, these are (i) providing advice; (ii) monitoring, facilitating and securing the achievement of Government objectives that relate to the Department, as requested; and (iii) performing such other functions as may be directed." kildarestreet.com

I sincerely do not know what that means in plain English. In practice, 'political advisors' coordinate media strategy for the minister in question, and in effect, help cushion him/her from adverse political affects in relation to particular policy strategies followed.

TLDR: Ultimate aim, get your guy re-elected.
Further reading: http://itsapoliticalworld.wordpress.com/2011/12/06/irish-government-special-advisers-the-list/

Why do these ehem, 'people' need advisers, for christs sake, surely if you dont know what to do without advisors ye shouldnt be in the bleedin job

FFS.
:mad:

TheChizler

pennypocket wrote: »

Political advisors are the sinecure of the party(s) in government. AKA reward of the party faithful.

"The primary function of special advisers will be to secure the achievement of Government objectives and to ensure effective co-ordination in the implementation of the programme for government. The role and duties of special advisers are described in section 11 of the Public Service Management Act 1997. In summary, these are (i) providing advice; (ii) monitoring, facilitating and securing the achievement of Government objectives that relate to the Department, as requested; and (iii) performing such other functions as may be directed." kildarestreet.com

I sincerely do not know what that means in plain English. In practice, 'political advisors' coordinate media strategy for the minister in question, and in effect, help cushion him/her from adverse political affects in relation to particular policy strategies followed.

TLDR: Ultimate aim, get your guy re-elected.
Further reading: http://itsapoliticalworld.wordpress.com/2011/12/06/irish-government-special-advisers-the-list/

Well it could be that, but elections aside it's handy if citizens don't revolt because you can't handle yourself in a press conference. They help find cuts that will be accepted easily without resulting in riots (and don't be saying that the vulnerable can't protest, look at what's been causing u-turns in the last few days). I don't think they justify their full salary but they must be in some way competent in what they're doing, otherwise they wouldn't have held on to them this long.

pennypocket

TheChizler wrote: »

Well it could be that, but elections aside it's handy if citizens don't revolt because you can't handle yourself in a press conference. They help find cuts that will be accepted easily without resulting in riots (and don't be saying that the vulnerable can't protest, look at what's been causing u-turns in the last few days). I don't think they justify their full salary but they must be in some way competent in what they're doing, otherwise they wouldn't have held on to them this long.

That too, but, nonetheless I am very cynical. They purposefully choose those areas very close to the bone to cut, 'kite-flying', knowing full well that there will be a pack-pedal involved, that is the strategy. So, in essence, the disabled groups, feel like they have a won a victory in this instance, when all along, the overall budget in the HSE will be cut nevertheless. A fabulous smoke and mirrors/distraction strategy if you like.

Sir Pompous Righteousness

pennypocket wrote: »

Political advisors are the sinecure of the party(s) in government. AKA reward of the party faithful.

"The primary function of special advisers will be to secure the achievement of Government objectives and to ensure effective co-ordination in the implementation of the programme for government. The role and duties of special advisers are described in section 11 of the Public Service Management Act 1997. In summary, these are (i) providing advice; (ii) monitoring, facilitating and securing the achievement of Government objectives that relate to the Department, as requested; and (iii) performing such other functions as may be directed." kildarestreet.com

I sincerely do not know what that means in plain English. In practice, 'political advisors' coordinate media strategy for the minister in question, and in effect, help cushion him/her from adverse political affects in relation to particular policy strategies followed.

TLDR: Ultimate aim, get your guy re-elected.
Further reading: http://itsapoliticalworld.wordpress.com/2011/12/06/irish-government-special-advisers-the-list/

And where does their funding come from? Party (i.e., Labour) funds or government/taxpayers funds?

pennypocket

Sir Pompous Righteousness wrote: »

And where does their funding come from? Party (i.e., Labour) funds or government/taxpayers funds?

Taxpayers' funds. They are 'political advisors' in name, so they last the lifetime of the government.

Sir Pompous Righteousness

pennypocket wrote: »

Taxpayers funds. They are 'political advisors' in name, so they last the lifetime of the government.

I'd argue that they ought to receive their sole funding from their respective parties.

pennypocket

Sir Pompous Righteousness wrote: »

I'd argue that they ought to receive their sole funding from their respective parties.

Many have argued that very same point. Yet, this government and the previous one seem to think that it is a given that Ministers and Junior Ministers have at least 2-3 or even 5 advisors in their coterie, many of them earning above the €130K salary cap for these positions. And yes, the taxpayer pays for this tidy (and undemocratic) patronage.

pennypocket

There is also the fact that political parties receive statutory funding (in order to prevent corrupt donations). SIPO reports that this funding was €13.8m in 2009. http://www.sipo.gov.ie/en/PressReleases/Name,15702,en.htm
Official donations to parties amounted to €30,997. I find that 'official' donation amount hard to swallow. In any case, I agree that individual parties should pay for their own 'political advisors' (and PR relations, including the Communications Clinic).

The Volt

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

I am unashamedly and unapologetically anti union.

Are you anti IBEC too? Out of curiosity.

Sir Pompous Righteousness

Voltwad wrote: »

Are you anti IBEC too? Out of curiosity.

If it receives any portion of taxpayers money, then he/she should.

The Volt

Sir Pompous Righteousness wrote: »

If it receives any portion of taxpayers money, then he/she should.

what?

Sir Pompous Righteousness

Voltwad wrote: »

what?

If IBEC receives any amount of public funding then, well personally, I'd view it in the same light as other unions.

pennypocket

Sir Pompous Righteousness wrote: »

If IBEC receives any amount of public funding then, well personally, I'd view it in the same light as other unions.

Well IBEC and all the other unions receive funding from the public purse. All parties to the partnership agreements from the late 1980s do. Think of it as Mussolini-corporatism-lite.