Debt Mediation for €13 overdraft?

Sky King

My bank just wrote me a snooty letter to tell me to eliminate this outrageous overdraft of €13, run up over a ridiculous period of seven working days.

They even went so far as to offer debt mediation services. I've had this account over 20 years and I actually can't ever remember it being overdrawn before... it's my main account. It only happened due to a bit of bad timing on my part and if they bothered their collective hole actually looking at the account details they would have known that.

Do you think I should ask them to help me work out a long term repayment strategy for the €13?

It's people like me that destroyed this country. I am a bad man. A bad bad man.

pickarooney

Do you reckon they sat down and composed that letter specially for you?

Gurgle

Go for it, make sure to stretch it out over a decade or so to ease the pain.

Duggy747

People like you and your gallivanting ways make me sick.

*BLLLEEEUURGGH!!*

Huh, I don't remember eating carrots.....

Feeona

Tell them you'll pay them back at 20c a week. Should take just over a year.

Sky King

pickarooney wrote: »

Do you reckon they sat down and composed that letter specially for you?

No I don't, obviously, and I don't need a repayment strategy for the 13 euro either. This is called sarcasm.

Anyway even in the event that it is an automated letter, someone still made a conscious decision to send it out.

pickarooney

Sky King wrote: »

No I don't, obviously, and I don't need a repayment strategy for the 13 euro either. This is called sarcasm.

Anyway even in the event that it is an automated letter, someone still made a conscious decision to send it out.

I doubt that. These kind of things are just automatically generated, printed and sent without anyone looking at them.

beertons

I can give you that sum in 1cent coins. Go in and count it out of them 1 by 1. Lose count a few times too.

CreepingDeath

Sky King wrote: »

My bank just wrote me a snooty letter to tell me to eliminate this outrageous overdraft of €13, run up over a ridiculous period of seven working days.

Yeah, but they'll probably penalize you €100 for an unapproved overdraft on top of that too !

Colmustard

I got this. The reason they are so enthusiastic about your 13 debt is they charge you for the letter.

Sky King

Colmustard wrote: »

I got this. The reason they are so enthusiastic about your 13 debt is they charge you for the letter.

Are you serious?

There's a guys name on the letter, I might give him a call.

dotsman

Sky King wrote: »

Anyway even in the event that it is an automated letter, someone still made a conscious decision to send it out.

I think you may be a little confused. You accept that it is an automated letter, but then immediately follow that up by saying that someone made a concious decision to send it out

Do you have any idea what the word "automated" means? That's right, the letter was sent automatically - no humans involved - because you have gone into an unauthorized overdraft. Anyone, and everyone who goes into an unauthorised overdraft is sent one by the big computer thingamajig, regardless of how long they have been a customer.

If they didn't send you one, you would, no doubt, be on here complaining that the bank never informed you that you were screwing up your financial status and receiving penalty charges etc.

A friend of mine's mother owed under a euro but whatever kind of account it was there was no extra charge. Anyway she got a letter a month for 2 years reminding her about it and that was up til 3 years ago, she may still be getting them. Geniuses.

syklops

Sky King wrote: »

My bank just wrote me a snooty letter to tell me to eliminate this outrageous overdraft of €13, run up over a ridiculous period of seven working days.

They even went so far as to offer debt mediation services. I've had this account over 20 years and I actually can't ever remember it being overdrawn before... it's my main account. It only happened due to a bit of bad timing on my part and if they bothered their collective hole actually looking at the account details they would have known that.

Do you think I should ask them to help me work out a long term repayment strategy for the €13?

It's people like me that destroyed this country. I am a bad man. A bad bad man.

Yes, write back and ask to have a meeting with them to discuss your circumstances, and to agree a repayment strategy. I would be interested to see what you get back.

EDIT: This reminds me. Years ago, my dad got a bill from the ESB for Zero pounds and Zero pence. He ignored it. Every month for about 3 months it came in, the same bill Zero pounds and Zero pence. Then on the fourth month, he got a letter saying "This is a final reminder for your account, if you do not pay, your services will be cut off". So he sent in a Cheque for zero pounds and zero pence. He got a phonecall a few days later from the IT department apologising for the inconvenience of the letters. Apparently, when he sent back the cheque for Zero pounds, zero pence, the billing computer system hung when trying to figure out how to add zeros.

SEPT 23 1989

You will need to go to the UK and declare yourself bankrupt,you will be a slave to the banks for the next twelve years over here

13 euro what the hell were you thinking?

lazygal

What did you do to run up the debt? Did you overspend on Happy Meals or have too many pints and hookers or what?

Tazio

13 eh? Unlucky.

Mr Benevolent

No wonder the country's the way it is, with people €13 in debt.

griffdaddy

You should ring up and engage their mediation services, keep them on the phone for as long as possible and explore all options as if it's a much bigger debt. It'd be interesting to see if they just stick to the script or if they realise how ridiculous the whole thing is at some stage and just get you off the phone.

hardCopy

dotsman wrote: »

I think you may be a little confused. You accept that it is an automated letter, but then immediately follow that up by saying that someone made a concious decision to send it out

Do you have any idea what the word "automated" means? That's right, the letter was sent automatically - no humans involved - because you have gone into an unauthorized overdraft. Anyone, and everyone who goes into an unauthorised overdraft is sent one by the big computer thingamajig, regardless of how long they have been a customer.

If they didn't send you one, you would, no doubt, be on here complaining that the bank never informed you that you were screwing up your financial status and receiving penalty charges etc.

Even automated letters run off rules designed by real people.

Somebody decided that €13 was a sufficiently large overdraft to require this letter. Such systems are configurable to generate different letters, or no letters, depending on the amounts involved.

Lollers

This chap had the right idea

From the Gaurdian : After being charged £20 for a £10 overdraft, 30 year old Michael Howard of Leeds changed his name by deed poll to "Yorskshire Bank PLC Are Fascist Bastards". The bank has now asked him to close his account, and Mr. Bastards has asked them to repay the 69p balance, by cheque, made out in his new name.

Link here http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/1999/nov/05/workandcareers1

humbert

Lollers wrote: »

This chap had the right idea

From the Gaurdian : After being charged £20 for a £10 overdraft, 30 year old Michael Howard of Leeds changed his name by deed poll to "Yorskshire Bank PLC Are Fascist Bastards". The bank has now asked him to close his account, and Mr. Bastards has asked them to repay the 69p balance, by cheque, made out in his new name.

Link here http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/1999/nov/05/workandcareers1

I love that there are people like this in the world

suicide_circus

Lollers wrote: »

This chap had the right idea

From the Gaurdian : After being charged £20 for a £10 overdraft, 30 year old Michael Howard of Leeds changed his name by deed poll to "Yorskshire Bank PLC Are Fascist Bastards". The bank has now asked him to close his account, and Mr. Bastards has asked them to repay the 69p balance, by cheque, made out in his new name.

Link here http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/1999/nov/05/workandcareers1

beautiful. that kind of commitment is so rare these days, bravo that man.

dotsman

hardCopy wrote: »

Even automated letters run off rules designed by real people.

Somebody decided that €13 was a sufficiently large overdraft to require this letter. Such systems are configurable to generate different letters, or no letters, depending on the amounts involved.

And the rules are quite simply that a customer is informed whenever they account has gone into an unauthorised overdraft.

I really don't see how this is so difficult to understand.

Boombastic

Fat cats in the bank, trying to make it look like they are busy and they have a worthy job

Pataman

Bloody Capitalist. I hope you are happy!
Ruining the country for the sake of €13.
Move over Seanie Fitz, and Mr Quinn.
Room on the bench for one more!

stepbar

dotsman wrote: »

And the rules are quite simply that a customer is informed whenever they account has gone into an unauthorised overdraft.

I really don't see how this is so difficult to understand.

I could understand perhaps if the account was overdrawn by 500 quid but 13 eur? Does the customer really need to be informed?

Personally, I wouldn't be loosing sleep over 13 eur nor would I be over 500 for that matter.

ArtSmart

Sky King wrote: »

My bank just wrote me a snooty letter to tell me to eliminate this outrageous overdraft of €13, run up over a ridiculous period of seven working days.

They even went so far as to offer debt mediation services. I've had this account over 20 years and I actually can't ever remember it being overdrawn before... it's my main account. It only happened due to a bit of bad timing on my part and if they bothered their collective hole actually looking at the account details they would have known that.

Do you think I should ask them to help me work out a long term repayment strategy for the €13?

It's people like me that destroyed this country. I am a bad man. A bad bad man.

and dont you forget it.


and to think people caller bankers, ****.

ArtSmart

hardCopy wrote: »

Even automated letters run off rules designed by real people.

Somebody decided that €13 was a sufficiently large overdraft to require this letter. Such systems are configurable to generate different letters, or no letters, depending on the amounts involved.

exactly.

as someone else mentioned they charge for the letter. business is a good thing, but banks make it bad. ie, they are scum. (the ones at the top)

ScouseMouse

I hope they send you to NAMA. So you you and the Quinn fella meet for lunch daily?

Its people like you living beyond your means that has fecked up this country.

Bring back hanging.

:D:D:D:D:D

kincsem

Do not be surprised if they charge you very heavily each day for an unathorised overdraft (or going over your limit.) I would expect €50 to €100 charges.

Let us know.

anncoates

Is this going to be the new African bank spam thread type where about 6 different posters a week post hilarious variations on the same automated bank letter?

Pawwed Rig

EBS have sent me 6 letters about a €3 overdraw on my account (which I don't use anymore). That is 55c x 6 = €3.30 on stamps to recover €3. I will not pay it until offered debt mediation

ejmaztec

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

EBS have sent me 6 letters about a €3 overdraw on my account (which I don't use anymore). That is 55c x 6 = €3.30 on stamps to recover €3. I will not pay it until offered debt mediation

If I were you, I'd move to Wales and file for bankruptcy. If it's good enough for Ivan Yates, it's good enough for you.

You can come back in a year and take a dump on the bank's doorstep.

squod

send them a cheque. Don't forget to wipe your arse with it first.

dotsman

stepbar wrote: »

I could understand perhaps if the account was overdrawn by 500 quid but 13 eur? Does the customer really need to be informed?

Personally, I wouldn't be loosing sleep over 13 eur nor would I be over 500 for that matter.

But how much is too much? To one person being €5 overdrawn (and the related charges) is enough for them to start a thread on boards complaining, while another person could be €1,000 overdrawn and not bat an eyelid.

The letter is simply a generic letter informing the customer that they have gone overdrawn (as it is an unauthorised overdraft). It's simply good practice, good customer service, in line with the regulator's desires and keeps the politicians/media happy (with the last 2 points being the only things that dictate banking decisions these days).

PizzamanIRL

If you rang up looking for a repayment plan, I wonder would they drop the formality and professionalism and just say "Ah come on, it's only €13."

Sky King

dotsman wrote: »

It's simply good practice, good customer service, in line with the regulator's desires and keeps the politicians/media happy (with the last 2 points being the only things that dictate banking decisions these days).

I fully accept the account should not be overdrawn and it's down to bad timing on my part (withdrawing just a little too much cash just before a couple of standing orders went out).

Other than this totally insignificant blip, my history is flawless, and I have 20 years of impeccable credit history with this bank. Not only this, but I put thousands through this account monthly.

My main problems are

1) None of the above seems to be worth a fking sh!t to my bank, they don't give a tuppenny fk about me, my long standing customer loyalty to their company through good times and bad, and my virtually perfect credit history.

2) Sending out a letter offering debt mediation for a €13 overdraft makes them and their business look unbelievably fking stupid... even if it IS an automated letter. As another poster pointed out, a human wrote the rules for the automation and he or she decided at that point that any overdraft, no matter how small or short lived is worth a snooty automatic generic letter and this is wrong... very very wrong.

ArtSmart

Sky King wrote: »

I fully accept the account should not be overdrawn and it's down to bad timing on my part (withdrawing just a little too much cash just before a couple of standing orders went out).

Other than this totally insignificant blip, my history is flawless, and I have 20 years of impeccable credit history with this bank. Not only this, but I put thousands through this account monthly.

My main problems are

1) None of the above seems to be worth a fking sh!t to my bank, they don't give a tuppenny fk about me, my long standing customer loyalty to their company through good times and bad, and my virtually perfect credit history.

2) Sending out a letter offering debt mediation for a €13 overdraft makes them and their business look unbelievably fking stupid... even if it IS an automated letter. As another poster pointed out, a human wrote the rules for the automation and he or she decided at that point that any overdraft, no matter how small or short lived is worth a snooty automatic generic letter and this is wrong... very very wrong.

Well I'm not gonna say bankers are ****, coz I already said it.

Bubblegum18

You should get some advice from mabs you need professional advice for that kinda debt

csi vegas

Sky King wrote: »

My bank just wrote me a snooty letter to tell me to eliminate this outrageous overdraft of €13, run up over a ridiculous period of seven working days.

They even went so far as to offer debt mediation services

Me too, for the paltry sum of €119. Now all of a sudden I am being threatened with a debt collection agency and that my (non-existant) credit rating may be affected. I could be blacklisted woooooo, bailiffs, possibly wooooo scared now

Well the effing cheek - this coming from a wbank who refused me an education loan a couple of years back BECAUSE I didn't have a credit rating full stop as I have never borrowed for anything.
Am about to set up a standing order of 10c a week just to píss them off, see how they like that, bank of fúck you!

dirtyden

You were overdrawn on your bank account. Your bank warned you that you were overdrawn.

Yes OP you are right the country is going to hell in a handcart. Imagine banks letting you know that your account is overdrawn. What next??

kowloon

I got a letter from a letting agency in the UK about a debt of less than £10 (I can't remember how much, but I have the letter somewhere). It stated that legal action would be taken if the money wasn't paid. There was nothing in place to monitor the amount, the letters were sent automatically.

I went in to their office and made a big pleading case not to be taken to court and how it was all just a mistake. When they could get my name out of all the confusion they looked up my account, laughs were had, there was bonding and we all grew as people.

dotsman

Sky King wrote: »

I fully accept the account should not be overdrawn and it's down to bad timing on my part (withdrawing just a little too much cash just before a couple of standing orders went out).

Other than this totally insignificant blip, my history is flawless, and I have 20 years of impeccable credit history with this bank. Not only this, but I put thousands through this account monthly.

My main problems are

1) None of the above seems to be worth a fking sh!t to my bank, they don't give a tuppenny fk about me, my long standing customer loyalty to their company through good times and bad, and my virtually perfect credit history.

2) Sending out a letter offering debt mediation for a €13 overdraft makes them and their business look unbelievably fking stupid... even if it IS an automated letter. As another poster pointed out, a human wrote the rules for the automation and he or she decided at that point that any overdraft, no matter how small or short lived is worth a snooty automatic generic letter and this is wrong... very very wrong.

Yes, just like a human designed pretty much every till system to generate a receipt, regardless of whether the customer is actually looking for it or not. It's very simple, everybody gets the same letter, regardless of past history, their financial standing or how hot they are - it's the same letter.

Now, if you think it's snooty, that's a personal opinion. Perhaps if you want to put up the content here for people to judge (minus any personal info), but as I said, the intention is of sending the letter is good on all counts, and is not intended to offend you!

D1stant

dotsman wrote: »

Yes, just like a human designed pretty much every till system to generate a receipt, regardless of whether the customer is actually looking for it or not. It's very simple, everybody gets the same letter, regardless of past history, their financial standing or how hot they are - it's the same letter.

Now, if you think it's snooty, that's a personal opinion. Perhaps if you want to put up the content here for people to judge (minus any personal info), but as I said, the intention is of sending the letter is good on all counts, and is not intended to offend you!

Can I call into your branch to discuss this in person?

dotsman

D1stant wrote: »

Can I call into your branch to discuss this in person?

MadsL

syklops wrote: »

Yes, write back and ask to have a meeting with them to discuss your circumstances, and to agree a repayment strategy. I would be interested to see what you get back.

EDIT: This reminds me. Years ago, my dad got a bill from the ESB for Zero pounds and Zero pence. He ignored it. Every month for about 3 months it came in, the same bill Zero pounds and Zero pence. Then on the fourth month, he got a letter saying "This is a final reminder for your account, if you do not pay, your services will be cut off". So he sent in a Cheque for zero pounds and zero pence. He got a phonecall a few days later from the IT department apologising for the inconvenience of the letters. Apparently, when he sent back the cheque for Zero pounds, zero pence, the billing computer system hung when trying to figure out how to add zeros.

Your dad did this, or he told you he did this? What other tall tales has he filled your head with? I call shenanigans...
http://www.snopes.com/business/bank/zero.asp

AskMyChocolate

You should just bite the bullet OP, hand back the keys, and try to start again somewhere like Australia or Canada. I realise it will be difficult leaving your friends and family and taking the kids out of school and all, but, at the end of the day there's no point ruining your life, trying to struggle out from under this mountain of debt, which you know in your heart of hearts, you can never possibly repay.

Bon voyage, my friend. And best of luck with all your future endeavours, wherever you decide to go, and whatever you decide to do.

Choco.

mcmoustache

MadsL wrote: »

Your dad did this, or he told you he did this? What other tall tales has he filled your head with? I call shenanigans...
http://www.snopes.com/business/bank/zero.asp

I write/maintain software - specifically, an accounting package. One of the packages that I wrote was the sales ledger which includes an automated reminder letters program. In simple terms, reminder letters get created for customers if their balance is greater than zero after their payment due date.

Here's the science bit:

Being software, due to floating point precision, sequences of calculations involving basic arithmetic can lead to a zero being something like 0.00000000000000002394. As a developer I get around this by clever rounding at the right times.

If however, I somehow left out some of this rounding, let's say, at the point where I select my records from the database, while rounding them for the horrible Crystal Reports that I generate, then people could easily receive reminder letters for effectively zero-balances. It would be poor coding on my part and I'd expect that someone is paid to throw their eyes over these things before they get sent out but it's not inconceivable that this could happen.

In fact, I'm tempted to do this just to prove snopes and MadsL wrong .

EDIT - After actually reading the snopes link, I see that they cover my scenario. I guess I'll need to wait until next time before I can prove snopes wrong .

EDIT 2 - Also, not much software would crash due to a zero-value payment.

Wompa1

mcmoustache wrote: »

I write/maintain software - specifically, an accounting package. One of the packages that I wrote was the sales ledger which includes an automated reminder letters program. In simple terms, reminder letters get created for customers if their balance is greater than zero after their payment due date.

Here's the science bit:

Being software, due to floating point precision, sequences of calculations involving basic arithmetic can lead to a zero being something like 0.00000000000000002394. As a developer I get around this by clever rounding at the right times.

If however, I somehow left out some of this rounding, let's say, at the point where I select my records from the database, while rounding them for the horrible Crystal Reports that I generate, then people could easily receive reminder letters for effectively zero-balances. It would be poor coding on my part and I'd expect that someone is paid to throw their eyes over these things before they get sent out but it's not inconceivable that this could happen.

In fact, I'm tempted to do this just to prove snopes and MadsL wrong .

EDIT - After actually reading the snopes link, I see that they cover my scenario. I guess I'll need to wait until next time before I can prove snopes wrong .

EDIT 2 - Also, not much software would crash due to a zero-value payment.

Rounding down eh? and depositing the difference into your own account? becareful where you put that decimal place my friend!

In Exile

Sky King wrote: »

I fully accept the account should not be overdrawn and it's down to bad timing on my part (withdrawing just a little too much cash just before a couple of standing orders went out).

Other than this totally insignificant blip, my history is flawless, and I have 20 years of impeccable credit history with this bank. Not only this, but I put thousands through this account monthly.

My main problems are

1) None of the above seems to be worth a fking sh!t to my bank, they don't give a tuppenny fk about me, my long standing customer loyalty to their company through good times and bad, and my virtually perfect credit history.

2) Sending out a letter offering debt mediation for a €13 overdraft makes them and their business look unbelievably fking stupid... even if it IS an automated letter. As another poster pointed out, a human wrote the rules for the automation and he or she decided at that point that any overdraft, no matter how small or short lived is worth a snooty automatic generic letter and this is wrong... very very wrong.

What you have to understand though is every time you overdraw your account you are incurring charges.
You have signed a contract when you opened the account to say you will keep it in proper working order at all times. (Now I know you use it properly but having worked in a bank myself it is nothing to do with the human side of things). There are automated credit ratings. Each time you go over your limit/overdraw your account/miss a SO or DD then your rating is affected.

While I do agree with you that 13 Euro is a bit of a joke, but what would you have said if it was, say, 50-60 Euro? To most people that would be nothing and it would be wiped out the next time their wages/dole came through but I've seen how badly things can spread from being 50 Euro overdrawn to suddenly watching someone in serious trouble.

Even when the O/D fee is charged and interest for being over, you will only owe at the most 20. But assume that was someone who was on the dole and they got 100 p/w. Suddenly that 20 is a large portion of their week.

The bank is covering their a*s. Simple as that. They have to be seen to be proactive in helping customers avoid debt.

Consider yourself lucky you can laugh at the letter.